Earth 2 Superman and Current Superman???

#1 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio

Why the f#@ck did he stalemate Current Superman? Kal L stalemated SA Superman in Justice League Of America #74 and he then comes out and can only stalemate Current Superman, what happenned?

#2 Posted by azza04 (1503 posts) - - Show Bio

Because he's Superman

#3 Edited by nightwing91 (3912 posts) - - Show Bio
@comicdude23: Was it not issue 73  where the two Superman battled, and keep in mind they were only even for that first fight, afterwards Earth 1 was shown as the stronger of the two, but keep in mind Kal-L seemed to get weaker with age, that may play a factor in Kal-el matching the aging kyrptonian. And he was typically weaker as his superpowers weren't solarbased, but in fact due to his kryptonian physiology.
#4 Edited by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio

Inconsistency of DC's multiverse. It's not the stalemating that was my problem at all. It was that GA Superman having bitterness and was addressing Modern Superman as a survivor of the crisis. As if he was the SA Superman.

Off-topic but related: Barry talked to Clark as if they've met before and even talked about their races before. Well he only encountered SA Supes and not modern Supes. And the Barry vs Clark races were back in the Silver Age.

#5 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
@nightwing91 said:
" @comicdude23: Was it not issue 73  where the two Superman battled, and keep in mind they were only even for that first fight, afterwards Earth 1 was shown as the stronger of the two, but keep in mind Kal-L seemed to get weaker with age, that may play a factor in Kal-el matching the aging kyrptonian. And he was typically weaker as his superpowers weren't solarbased, but in fact due to his kryptonian physiology. "
I am pretty sure it was issue 74. When was E1 Superman shown to be the Stronger of the two? E1 Superman actually got weaker too, and when he entered the Bronze Age, his powers were severely toned down. I thought Kal L was in his Prime when he was old. Well, that's what his feats suggest.
#6 Posted by nightwing91 (3912 posts) - - Show Bio
@comicdude23: Kal-L didn't get stronger with age, as his powers were not solarbased but based on his physiology, which doesn't absorb solar energy(which was why he was unaffected diving through the sun in Infinite crisis) So like a normal person, the older he got he still became weaker, he did also retired when he started to age( but despite this he was on of the strongest beings in the multiverse)

Now as for the fight, they were shown as even not as Kal-L being superior(which is usually done when two highpowered characters meet,  especially highprofile ones) After every previous of their encounters following that one issue, Silver age Supes was shown to be quite a bit strong.(which is why during coie, he had  to use a suckpunch to KO silverage supes)

Now for the issue number, you may be right as Im recalling that number from the top of my head, I could have sworn it was 73 but you may juust be right.
#7 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
@nightwing91 said:
" @comicdude23: Kal-L didn't get stronger with age, as his powers were not solarbased but based on his physiology, which doesn't absorb solar energy(which was why he was unaffected diving through the sun in Infinite crisis) So like a normal person, the older he got he still became weaker, he did also retired when he started to age( but despite this he was on of the strongest beings in the multiverse)

Now as for the fight, they were shown as even not as Kal-L being superior(which is usually done when two highpowered characters meet,  especially highprofile ones) After every previous of their encounters following that one issue, Silver age Supes was shown to be quite a bit strong.(which is why during coie, he had  to use a suckpunch to KO silverage supes)

Now for the issue number, you may be right as Im recalling that number from the top of my head, I could have sworn it was 73 but you may juust be right.
"
I thought he did. When he was old he stalemated SA Superman, so that means if he was youthful and his Prime, he was more powerful than SA Superman? he didn't seem weaker up until Crisis On Infinite Earths, in fact, old Kal up until Crisis On Infinite Earths seemed to be at the same, well, I haven't red Infinite Crisis yet, though I will do. Its just he was never really shown to get weaker up until Infinite Crisis. He only KO'd SA Superman because he didn't want him to suffer, If I recall, that and Pre Crisis Kal El was Bloodlusted. And yeah, it was issue 74.
#8 Posted by nightwing91 (3912 posts) - - Show Bio
@comicdude23: No he was never more powerful then SA. And he was still pretty  youthful when he fought SA Supes, he was still a member of the JSA when he along with the rest of the JSA were pitted against the JLA. And they battled even, but after that one fight SA was shown everytime to be much stronger the his GA counterpart. Don't focus so much on the one apparence, which could just be DC not realizing how powerful Silver age Supes was, or just toning him down for a better fight. (it's the same way silver age Dr. Fate just didn't solo the league as he was battling them)

He was a growing weaker, as he was aging any species that ages inevitably starts to grow weaker, its a fact of life. He was growing weaker, but granted only marginally, like I mentioned was still one of the most powerful beings in the DC Multiverse. He only KO'ed SA Supes, who was his friend by faking to leave with him, and when his guard dropped hit him with everything he had in one punch. And yes I recall the issue number as it was a a multi issue story arc.
#9 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
@nightwing91 said:
" @comicdude23: No he was never more powerful then SA. And he was still pretty  youthful when he fought SA Supes, he was still a member of the JSA when he along with the rest of the JSA were pitted against the JLA. And they battled even, but after that one fight SA was shown everytime to be much stronger the his GA counterpart. Don't focus so much on the one apparence, which could just be DC not realizing how powerful Silver age Supes was, or just toning him down for a better fight. (it's the same way silver age Dr. Fate just didn't solo the league as he was battling them)He was a growing weaker, as he was aging any species that ages inevitably starts to grow weaker, its a fact of life. He was growing weaker, but granted only marginally, like I mentioned was still one of the most powerful beings in the DC Multiverse. He only KO'ed SA Supes, who was his friend by faking to leave with him, and when his guard dropped hit him with everything he had in one punch. And yes I recall the issue number as it was a a multi issue story arc. "
Ok. But when was he shown to be much Stronger? Kal L was at SA levels, he was shown to even Time Travel w/ his Speed, so Kal L in his Prime was around SA levels, and SA Superman got weaker after that, when he entered the Bronze Age, its not really a low showing since Kal L was at SA levels, mabye for Fate, but not for Kal El, and wasn't Kal L Faster and more Durable?
#10 Posted by nightwing91 (3912 posts) - - Show Bio

Kal-L in his Prime was never towards Silver age levles, pretty much every time they have encountered each other SA Supes was shown as the stronger. It was a low showing for Kal-El, as he was still silver age, and Kal-L was still in late golden age levels. And Kal-L defiantly was not faster and more durable. then SA.

And it was as this was silver age Fate, battling Flash, Atom, and Wonder woman.

#11 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
@nightwing91 said:
" Kal-L in his Prime was never towards Silver age levles, pretty much every time they have encountered each other SA Supes was shown as the stronger. It was a low showing for Kal-El, as he was still silver age, and Kal-L was still in late golden age levels. And Kal-L defiantly was not faster and more durable. then SA. And it was as this was silver age Fate, battling Flash, Atom, and Wonder woman. "
Kal L was capable of time travelling, that's a SA feat, and what over times did Kal L meet Pre Crisis E1 Kal El? Only a few times? Every time they met other than their first meeting Kal L is older and weaker, and Kal El is more youthful and more powerful. Kal L was at a decent age when they first met, every other time they met Kal L was older, whilst in their first meeting, he was Stronger. So in his first meeting with Kal El he was at a decent age, each time they met Kal L got weaker. But yes, Fate as on a low showing.
#12 Posted by nightwing91 (3912 posts) - - Show Bio
@comicdude23: The way it was Kal-L was just weaker back then, He was shown to be weaker the SA Supes and Pre-Crisis Ultraman. The truth is, Kal-L's abilities fluctuated quite a bit, he did grow to silver age levels for a brief time( which is the encounter your bringing up here) But for some reason this was only a brief change. At another point following this, he was at the point he couldn't fly for a brief time, and eventually he was back closer to his golden age abilities.

Silver age Supes, I'm not sure if he grew more powerfuil with age, as he was far more powerful most of the time, I think what this is, is writers either not knowing the limits of SA Supes.( which is likely as he was a multidimensional counter part of superman, and they showed Ultraman beings almost or equal to him) or knowing the limits and raising them to have him match SA Superman in a fight.
#13 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
@nightwing91 said:
" @comicdude23: The way it was Kal-L was just weaker back then, He was shown to be weaker the SA Supes and Pre-Crisis Ultraman. The truth is, Kal-L's abilities fluctuated quite a bit, he did grow to silver age levels for a brief time( which is the encounter your bringing up here) But for some reason this was only a brief change. At another point following this, he was at the point he couldn't fly for a brief time, and eventually he was back closer to his golden age abilities.Silver age Supes, I'm not sure if he grew more powerfuil with age, as he was far more powerful most of the time, I think what this is, is writers either not knowing the limits of SA Supes.( which is likely as he was a multidimensional counter part of superman, and they showed Ultraman beings almost or equal to him) or knowing the limits and raising them to have him match SA Superman in a fight. "
Exactly. Kal L at one point in time was at SA levels, as time went by and the Crisis was coming, SA Superman wasn't as powerful as he was, in the 80s when the Infinity Inc came out, his Strength was higher again, and literally equal to E1 Superman, and Kal L's stories were printed in early SA Comics too. 
#14 Edited by nightwing91 (3912 posts) - - Show Bio
@comicdude23: He grew weaker, far before the crisis was coming. He was shown to be weaker during the JLA and JSA team ups that would occur. He was silver age levels only. And I know this, but he never showed anything to show he was even to SA, without feats all they can be certain is he was really strong, durable and fast.

And as for the 80's him becoming stronger, he still looked the weakest when Lex Luthor, Alexi Luthor, and Ultraman all teams up against the Earth 1 and 2 supermen and alexnader luthor.
#15 Posted by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio

He may be weaker than SA Supes but his sucker punch still worked for his younger counterpart... The way modern Supes also took that punch.



Also this...



Ok.. Why do I get the feeling I'm gonna get schooled in taking things out of context? :D
#16 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
@nightwing91 said:
" @comicdude23: He grew weaker, far before the crisis was coming. He was shown to be weaker during the JLA and JSA team ups that would occur. He was silver age levels only. And I know this, but he never showed anything to show he was even to SA, without feats all they can be certain is he was really strong, durable and fast.And as for the 80's him becoming stronger, he still looked the weakest when Lex Luthor, Alexi Luthor, and Ultraman all teams up against the Earth 1 and 2 supermen and alexnader luthor. "
You couldn't even tell if he was weaker before the Crisis was coming, mabye he was SUPPOSED to become weaker, but his feats became better, when Kal L was in his Prime (#74) he was equal to SA Superman, it can be argued that COIE Kal L is Kal L in his Prime, E1 Superman = E2 Superman in the late 60s - End of the SA, and E1 Superman = E2 Superman - In the 80s, and different time periods, E2 Superman was equal to E1 Superman. Whilst E1 Superman and E2 Superman are both inconsistent.
#17 Posted by nightwing91 (3912 posts) - - Show Bio
@comicdude23: Your reading to much into that, it was PIS he was a complete even match. And technically around this time he was out of physical prime, as i've said hes not a solar battery. Like a normal person his prime is 20s and 30s and Kal was in his late 40s or early 50s beyond his prime.Matching him and every encounter after means it was pis, it took a sucker punch with sa's guard being down to ko him. Kal L was and always should be weaker then Kal el was, because of the orgins of the powers.
#18 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
@nightwing91 said:
" @comicdude23: Your reading to much into that, it was PIS he was a complete even match. And technically around this time he was out of physical prime, as i've said hes not a solar battery. Like a normal person his prime is 20s and 30s and Kal was in his late 40s or early 50s beyond his prime.Matching him and every encounter after means it was pis, it took a sucker punch with sa's guard being down to ko him. Kal L was and always should be weaker then Kal el was, because of the orgins of the powers. "
Ok. But what about Kal El? He got weaker when he entered the Bronze Age, yes, I admit he should be weaker when he ages, but his feats tell another story, Kal L has time travelled, and old Kal L was capable of survivng a blast from COIE Anti Monitor, though that Anti Monitor was weakened. Kal L KO'd E1 Superman because he said "You people have too much to live for. I don't...Not any longer" that's why he KO'd him. Kal L was shown to kick the crap out of the Anti Monitor, even Pre Crisis Darkseid said Kal L's power is beyond comprehension. What I'm saying is, he should be weaker, but his feats make him Stronger when he was old. And when did Kal L get weaker with age? and mabye the Sun in Infinite Crisis didn't effect him because it's not from his Universe.
#19 Posted by nightwing91 (3912 posts) - - Show Bio
@comicdude23: No, redsunlight from any univser will effect kryptonians from any universe, Prime was driven through that sun and became depowered. And his feats say the older he gets the weaker he gets, which is part of the reason he retired fromthe JSA.And as you said a weakened  ant-monitor, it seems your looking for stuff thats accepted as canon already. And what reason did you say what Kal L said before the sucker punch, it was still a sucker punch on an unsuspecting kal el. 

And its like I said, during that crossover I mentioned it was shown he was weaker to Kal El and ultraman.
#20 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
@nightwing91 said:
" @comicdude23: No, redsunlight from any univser will effect kryptonians from any universe, Prime was driven through that sun and became depowered. And his feats say the older he gets the weaker he gets, which is part of the reason he retired fromthe JSA.And as you said a weakened  ant-monitor, it seems your looking for stuff thats accepted as canon already. And what reason did you say what Kal L said before the sucker punch, it was still a sucker punch on an unsuspecting kal el. 

And its like I said, during that crossover I mentioned it was shown he was weaker to Kal El and ultraman.
"
Ok. So Kal L was at SA levels for a short period of time, and then became weaker and weaker, basically what you said, he was inconsistent. And his power levels fluctuated, but as PC Darkseid, his power levels were beyond comprehension. But I will admit, Kal El from E1 did get Stronger w/ age, and Kal L got weaker with it, the feat is not PIS. Never the less, Kal L grew weaker.
#21 Posted by koala99 (13 posts) - - Show Bio

You all do realize that the version of Superman first seen during Infinite Crisis and last seen before The New 52 is not the post-Crisis Kal-El, but a slightly modified version of the Silver Age Superman with downgraded power levels. This is demonstrated by how the post-Infinite Crisis Superman, although borrowing some elements from the post-Crisis Superman, draws more of his current continuity from the Silver/Bronze Age Kal-El. Not only would this account for the Golden Age Superman's bitterness and the references to Barry Allen and SA Superman's races, but it would also explain why post-Infinite Crisis Superman remembers both the pre-Crisis and post-Crisis versions of Brainiac and how pre-Crisis Superman villains like Amalak could make a recent appearance. While it is true that Superman: Secret Origin has both similarities to and differences from the SA Superman's origin story, it, unlike John Byrne's Man of Steel, which is now non-canonical, is mainly inspired by the Silver Age origin and allows for most of pre-Crisis Earth-One continuity to remain relevant. I even think that Dan DiDio confirmed shortly after Infinite Crisis that the post-Infinite Crisis Superman is the Silver Age incarnation.

#22 Posted by a88378438 (3421 posts) - - Show Bio

Bronze Age superman was weaker than Silver age superman

#23 Posted by koala99 (13 posts) - - Show Bio

I was referring to how post-Infinite Crisis Superman drew most of his continuity from the Silver Age Superman, not his power levels. The post-Infinite Crisis Superman's power levels are on par with those of Bronze Age Superman, but the Silver Age and Bronze Age Supermen shared the same history, save for the unspoken rule that the more insane adventures of the Silver Age Superman were not to be referenced often. So far, the only differences between post-Infinite Crisis Superman and pre-Crisis Superman are that the Kents are still alive, the John Corben Metallo got a new origin, the Rudy Jones Parasite came before the Maxwell Jensen version, and Sam Lane being a full-blown villain instead of just an unlikable character. In fact, DC Retroactive: Superman- The 80s #1 confirmed that pre-Crisis Supes and current Supes are one and the same, as pre-Crisis Superman saw the future in that thanks to Harbinger pretending to be Destiny, and he was referred to as the same Superman that died at Doomsday's hands and experienced "World of New Krypton" by Harbinger.

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