I know its like from a year ago, but not sure who's actually seen it. I personally really enjoyed it and wish this could be real.

It was good.didn't like Lex Luthor being kind of a wimp though iirc,

@saint_wildcard: What made you think of him as a whimp? The whole "I'm the last brave man" think was kind of bad ass sounding to me.

It's not too late to make it happen. Could totally be done for Earth One Supes.

@teerack: iirc he flinched when Superman "was" gonna punch him. Read Red Son, ASS or watch TAS and tell me if any of those Luthors would flinch.

@w3bst3r: If this ever happened I think I would like to see it in a new earth, like maybe if DC ever had a line of comics all in the same universe separate from the New 52 like how Ultimate Comics works.

@saint_wildcard: Oh Yeah, I forgot about the flinch. I agree about that.

@teerack: Sooooo, Earth One?...

@ultimatesmfan:

There is already a justice league and a lot of the heroes have met in earth one though. Maybe I'm crazy but I always saw Earth 1 as the never ending Golden Age and this story seems kind of modern. I kind of don't want the status quo to ever change in Earth 1... if that makes sense.

The way I picture is is since this is a year two story I think it would be cool if they maybe started everything out with like

• Earth X: Batman and Robin
• Earth X: Superman
• Earth X: Wonder Woman
• Earth X: Green Lantern and Flash

Then after starting at the very begining a year and a half of comics go by they could have their first big event DOOMSDAY and then in the after math of it the line up of titles become

• Earth X: Batman & Superman
• Earth X: Justice League
• Earth X: Superman
• Earth X: Teen Titans

I think that would be the best way to build a universe around this story.

Meh, I don't really like Landis that much. He made one well known meh film which catapulted him into the comic book universe and now thinks he's the greatest thing since fiction began. He wrote one superman book which was interesting but I don't really want him anywhere near superman.

@teerack: Alright, I see where you're coming from. I just don't think the guys at DC would really want to start another continuity from scratch, nor would many people want to read the same rehashed stories for the umpteenth time.

Well if they rehashed it, it would be dumb. It is possible to start over and do it all different while keeping all of the core concepts in tact like marvel did with Ultimate Comics. In a lot of ways the first 10 years of Ultimate Comics was better then then main universe.

You're right DC would never want to do anything like this though. Which sucks because all my favorite DC things have been in their own universes like Return of the Dark Knight, Kingdom Come, Injustice, and Earth 2.

@teerack: The New 52 and Earth One are the closest DC's gotten to Marvel's Ultimate Universe. I don't see how Superman's origin could be retold in another way that would make it interesting to read.

I like Injustice also. I wish DC could get their universes and continuity in check. The latest thing I've read is Future's End because I can't keep track of the main timeline's continuity.

His pitch is ok, but where the f^%k are Captain Marvel and Black Adam, each a Superman level being? Surely all three of them together could easily take out DD

@andhaira: There not around because plot.

Nope! Wouldn't work.

Just by listening I started to hate the whole story.

Forget about it, and never make it happen, or you'd see what a real crisis looks like, when superman fans all over the world started to demand your head on a silver plate.

@teerack said:

What? When did this happen? All the Earth One books have been fairly self-contained so far.

Also, this pitch blows.

@smashbrawler: There are some elements that could be changed, but it's a nice spin.

Where were they in the actual Death of Superman storyline?

I thought him flinching was fine, actually a nice edition. As cool as Lex Luther is, we're not supposed to root for him, he's a hypocrite, a sociopathic attention whore. This story would be a different version of him, so him flinching would show in a subtle way that he is far from the "last brave man" and would reaffirm Superman's superiority.

NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!

Lex Luthor sees it this way, he'll either live a hero with Superman's head on his mantle or die a martyr at Superman's hand. If you wanna use Elseworld logic, that's fine. I like the pitch but I still don't like his Lex Luthor. I won't hate it but I won't love it like Red Son Lex.

@saint_wildcard: I'm looking at it from the perspective that Lex Luther's smoothness and arrogance is just a big facade, when really, inside, he's just a complete sociopath who's irrational jealousy of Superman drives him insane. As much as I adore the character, I don't believe he should be Superman's equal in anything. Just losing in the end isn't enough, it needs to be shown that Lex is not Superman's equal; not in will, courage, or character. In fact, they're actually not even close. This is why Superman is the one we should look up to rather than Lex Luther, and no matter how hard he tries he can not change that. His pompousness and cowardice needs to come out, and the idea of him flinching from a punch, in my opinion, is actually a really clever, extremely subtle way of getting all that across in only a few panels.

At the same time, within the context of the story, flinching is just a reflex, you can't control it, so it doesn't automatically make Lex Luther pathetic. He can still be the smooth talking criminal we all love, without being Superman's equal.

This would still be earlier Lex in his first direct confrontation with Supes so I'm not so sure it would make sense for him to be super tough by then.

You can literally ruin every story that way lol. Not everyone is going to be everywhere... the after math of Death of Superman had a ton of heroes upset that they weren't there.

You can't write a paragraph like that and then say it could also just be a reflex. You're right, the symbolism is there.... but I will never agree with that. Lex is not an idiot, he knows that poking a beehive might result in getting stung. If he really thought he was gonna get punched he would take it like a man. Don't get me wrong, if he can escape death he will. But there's a difference between pressing a button that will set off a machine to distract Superman and flinching. Besides flinching isn't gonna help him in anyway and he knows that. One example is in SM/WW when the kiss is revealed to the world this was how he responded

A smart dude like him knows the risks. Also you state that we need a reason to follow Superman and not Lex, I completely disagree. Especially if that reason is that he pu**ies out to a fake out. We follow Superman cus he's a beacon of hope that will put his life on the line to help us, we don't follow Lex cus he's a selfish SOB who will put your life on the line to achieve his goals.

Also, who said anything about being Superman's equal? He will never be his equal, but I hardly think he needs to be scared to show it. Also a cowardly Lex would never build a battle suit and fight threats like he did in Forever Evil and he was amazing in that.

Lex doesn't go training or fight to become a BAMF, he just is. IIRC there is a comic where he was kidnapped by Darkseid as a young adult before he became rich and he never showed fear. In fact he was building to tech to try and kill him.

@saint_wildcard: Why can't I write a paragraph like that and then also write it off as a reflex? There are two simultaneous explanations - an out of universe, symbolic reason for the writer making Luther flinch, and an in-universe justification for Luther flinching. They both go together, it's not "or", it's "and".

Like I said, just because Lex flinched, that doesn't make him a coward. Symbolically it does, but not in-universe. Being intelligent doesn't make Lex reflex-proof, your beehive metaphor is faulty, if someone poked a beehive and then the bees came out, they wouldn't say "welp, I knew this might happen" and just stand there and take it. They'd try and get the hell out of the way, regardless of whether or not they were prepared for the risks. How does Superman kissing Wonder Woman at all relate to this? In that scan Lex was angry, in the context of this story he is in danger and like any able bodied human, he wanted to avoid getting hurt.

@saint_wildcard: Well at that point he wouldn't know enough about Superman to be sure he wouldn't kill him.

Flinching in itself doesn't necessarily show fear though, it shows a desire not to be injured, which Lex also showed by building tech to try and destroy Darkseid. Unless that was also cowardly and he should have just let Darkseid do whatever he wanted?

Yeah and there were times I remember when Lex has freaked out because he thought he was going to die. Like back during the whole Lex Junior era he actually cried when he was in an electric chair and wasn't sure if Superman would save him.

Because the intent is what matters. If the intent of having Lex flinch is symbolism, then that's the main reason. One is more important than the other,

The point of the bee metaphor and the scan is, Lex is smart enough to know that if Superman is gonna punch him, flinching ain't gonna stop it. Also, the way this dude displayed it was fearful. I can agree with flinching being a natural reaction, but not the fear part. As I stated before Lex is an arrogant SOB, and if he dies at the hands of Superman he dies a martyr. He's not gonna die scared coward.

By that Logic, he also shows fear by trying to kill Superman. When he got sucked to Apocalypse, it was more confusion than fear. He wanted to kill Darkseid cus he was planning on keeping him as a slave.

I think that over the years different writers have characterized Lex in a way where some times it makes sense and some times it's out of character, but it's gone back an forth so much you could argue that either way is more in character. If you want to say like Lex after Identity Crisis wouldn't do it though, then I would 100% agree.

That's fine. But my Lex will always be Red Son Lex, maybe with a little bit of ASS Lex thrown in.

@nickzambuto: Who am I kidding? I'm mostly rambling at this point. I surrender, but I still don't like Lex flinching and want a BAMF like he was in Red Son.

I guess we just disagree on our preferred characterization of Luther. You want him to be a completely fearless BAMF, like in Red Son and All Star, but to me, the idea of him flinching implies a few more complexities to his character that I am personally fine with.

What's wrong with him flinching? I doubt anyone could hold their ground entirely in a similar situation against a Superman trained by Batman.

Doubt a kung fu punch could crush Lex's skull any better than a regular punch :P

Also, my Lex would never flinch for Superman.

I don't think that's the point. Dude was in a different state of mind. He was in absolute denial, but at the same time, coming to the realization how he was the cause of Doomsday's destruction and Brainiac's temporary control over Metropolis. I'd say that moment of flinching was believable in my opinion.

Maybe, but a man who threatens someone with bankruptcy, a son who will become a drug addict and a wife who will commit suicide doesn't seem like the kinda guy who feel's guilt.

Well, Luthor's never done or been responsible for something of this particular scale in continuity. He was basically the cause for the death of thousands of citizens and presumably, an unaccounted amount of heroes including what we can assume to be Diana and Arthur.

Then, he claims to have saved Metropolis and its people with Kryptonian tech only for it to be self aware and tear apart the city... again :P

That's pretty rough bruh!

Well he wants to kill Superman, and the amount of times he's saved the Earth you'd think Lex would stop. Yet he continues to justify his cause. Which is why I said he'd see himself as a martyr if he dies at Superman's hands. Not to say he wants to die, if he can avoid it he will but Lex should know that flinching ain't gonna stop a punch that could break concrete.

And yes I know, flinching is natural, b-but still :(

Then, he claims to have saved Metropolis and its people with Kryptonian tech only for it to be self aware and tear apart the city... again :P

He's an a**.... but he's our a**.

@saint_wildcard: Hey man, I feel you! But I'm just playing the advocate here. This isn't exactly the same Superman either. Dude ripped through the anti-Kryptonian defences as if they were toys and he's a decent amount more relentless.

I don't hate it. For the most part this Lex was really good, but once you've had stories like Red Son and Forever Evil I can't go back.

As for Superman, it's a really great Superman story that I would totes get the trade.