If you have seen DC's April Solicitations, you will notice that every main Superman title (B/S, Action, Superman,SM/WW) has a mention of the return of Doomsday!

Is DC planning to bring the New 52 version of the Death of Superman, that was teased in the villians month issue of Doomsday? Are you excited? What do you think?

It's not mentioned in B/S, that's an Earth2 story.

But regardless……AWESOME.

Though to be honest, I doubt DC would recreate Death of Superman again because it wouldn't nearly have the same effect as the first time plus they've made mention that Clark has already died.

@squalleon: The Death of Superman has been referenced before though so if DC do a New 52 version of it, they'll just be retconning and contradicting themselves.

Well Superman may not die but it will definetely lead to a story similar to DoS considering what VM: Doomsday shown.

I am actually excited, I really want to see DoS done right and don't forget, DC had Max Landis and Greg Pak write a DoS weekly. And Greg Pak is now on Action. Knowing that Greg Pak is the architect behind the event is a treat....but this is all speculation.

I really don't know how they will explain it, maybe Supes won't die but it will be similar, have you read VM:Doomsday? It really shows a new 52 presentation of DoS. And considering that DC had Landis and Pak write a DoS weekly it doesn't seem to much of a stretch.

I just don't like tony daniels off of SM/WW

I'd be quite interested in how DC would handle the reintroduction of Doomsday in the New 52 as Superman's villain (not counting Doosmday's villain's month issue, which I thought Pak did a great job in). Will have to wait and see I guess.

I had no idea this DoS Weekly idea had existed until right now. I googled it and found this video along with an actual article of it. They didn't write it, it was just an idea that never came to fruition due to Landis's schedule.

Maybe they'll do a storyline that revisits the DoS to show us what happened. Like a past arc type thing.

@thefirstlantern: he is going to relaunch SM/WW.

Yes I should have been more presise there. But the point still stands DC wanted a DoS weekly and now the 4 main Superman titles are collaborating on a return of Doomsday arc with Pak as a main writer

EDIT: The villians month issue that featured Doomsday was a B/S issue.

So i have heard now that i researched. I also expect the main Doomsday Story to be in SM/WW

Just watched the entire 45 minutes video of what he would have done (without Pak) and it was completely gruesome and totally awesome. Only issue I had with it though was that Superman didn't actually "die" nor did anyone think he was dead. It was a metaphorical death and return and that annoyed me because it reminded me of Death Of The Family.

What do you mean SM/WW is getting relaunched?

I'm pretty sure Clark has already been "killed" by Doomsday in the New 52.

@arturocalakayvee: teen Titans...sorry. I meant Teen Titans.

Ah okay now THAT I've heard ... and love.

Wow, wow, guys I know it ends in April, but until then Superman Unchained is the main Superman title.

I've seen nothing out of New 52 Superman stories that leads me to believe I should be excited about this.

For a second I thought batman and wonder woman got a new series together.

Superman’s death was referenced several times in the New-52, but (sorry if I wrong) there wasn’t anything that suggests that it was Doomsday who killed him. Through potential second death is a bit too much.

If DC would actually do DOS story in New-52, they probably should did it in “Let us tell you what happened with Superman in 5-years long time skip”-style.

Landis' idea was amazing IMO. As long as it was outside of main continuity. I thought it was brilliant. Would have loved to read it. The way I woul write it would be very different but I liked his idea as a non-canon retelling.

Superman's already been killed by Doomsday in the New 52 I think.At least the death of Superman was mentioned in Morrison's Action Comics.

@arturocalakayvee: What was wrong with Morrison's metaphorical Doomsday for Superman? It got confusing towards the end but if anything, it touched on the concept of Superman very nicely indeed and part of that included Superman's 'death' so to speak. A physical Superman death wouldn't be better, especially in the current New 52 canon and especially since DC have referenced Superman's death already. If they are planning a Death of Superman arc, there'll be scathing criticism for the New 52 not being new at all.

I have and I get what you're saying but it still doesn't make sense given that DC wanted the New 52 to be a soft reboot keeping certain stories like The Killing Joke and John' Green Lantern within canon along with this. For Doomsday to just show up now is a bit strange all things considered. And I still haven't watched that Landis video, it's really long and I need to find the right time to sit down for it. What was it about in essence?

Superman also mentioned it in the first Swamp Thing issue, Lobdell touched on it in Superman 20 and Batman referenced it in Batman and Red Robin 19. That's where it's also been mentioned outside of Morrison's Action Comics run.

This. Plus his death was mentioned also in the Superman title and it was told that Doomsday was already escaped form the phantom zone in the Superman/WW # 3.

Obviously Dc won't kill Clark again, they are simply using Doomsday for a new story arc but hopefully one day we will get a modern version of the DOS which is set in the past of the new-52 continuity.

Can you please clarify a bit where that was said in SM/WW #3?

All I found is this (from second issue):

There Superman talking about Doomsday recent escape (when he fought Di); then in SM/WW #4 Superman told about Doomsday’ escaping to Zod. In third issue I didn’t find anything about Doomsday.

By the way, Diana’s question about Doomsday in SM/WW #2 is a little intriguing. DOS ended in the big showdown in Metropolis, Both Supes and D “killed” each other… That was quite a big deal then, news was widespread and Doomsday became instantly recognizable as a “monster that killed Superman”. Here Diana asks who that monster is. Perhaps New-52 circumstances of DOS were radically different, or it wasn’t Doomsday who killed Supes in the first time.

@deranged_midget:

Superman has died in New52 but not by Doomsday.
Doomsday only escaped once from the phantom zone in SM/WW #1. Superman's death in the new 52 was of unknown reasons. Also since time had collapsed in a single moment during Vyndktvx's attack and Superman "died" there you could say this is the death everyone is referring to.
EDIT: And people new about Doomsday because of the time distortsion.

I didn't mention Morrison at all, I was talking about Landis's idea about DoS. It's a pretty interesting story with some "wtf" twists. You really gotta find time to watch it. I didn't like how there was no actual "death" involved. At all. In fact, I said above I didn't like the metaphorical death -Clark said Superman is dead because he no longer wanted to be Superman- because he became Superman again almost RIGHT after he said it. The story shouldn't have been called Death and Return of Superman, it should have been … ahem … DOOMSDAY F*CKS EVERYTHING UP…and Superman has the self-conflict of a teenage boy. *insert DUN DUN DUUUUUUUN music* To me, the story was exactly like Death of the Family. The family was supposed to die, according to the story. But instead - they just got a little upset with Bruce. THAT'S what happened in this what-if story, basically.

Oh, oops, my bad for getting things wrong there. So what Landis was pitching to DC was Doomsday destroying everything and Superman having a Spider-Man esque conflict about what he's doing? Is that what the deal was for the story? I'm having mixed feelings about it then all things considered but as you said, I should find the time to watch it. In fact I think I'll probably have time tonight to do it so I can do that. And whilst I am a very scathing critic of the conclusion to Death of the Family being lackluster, overhyped and poorly executed into a contrived and disappointing end, there was never much doubt that the family would actually die was there? Snyder had to find some other way of splintering the Bat Family and the end result wasn't that good.

No worries. According to the video, DC came to Landis with an idea of rebooting or retconing DoS in pre52 continuity with Greg Pak but since he couldn't change his schedule around, it didn't come to fruition. I think this story still is possible for the New 52 -assuming they do a past story arc showing what actually happened- but Landis created this video to tell people what his idea is without the input or editing of Greg Pak. Landis says he wants his story out of continuity and with good reason. To sum the first half -The Doomsday half- it shows Doomsday nearly kill every single hero it comes across until he stabs Kal until his face is nearly shredded off -literally- until Superman decides "Okay, gotta kill him." He kills Doomsday but instead of dying he decides "F this, Superman is stupid. Krypton is STUUUPID." He goes back to Smallville, lives there, something cool happens I admit while he's there but I won't spoil it, then he's convinced to be Superman again when .. part 2 happens. But I won't spoil that either. Sorry, this seems really convoluted but I'm trying to work around spoiling a lot for you.

I can see why the story being OOC would have been better had Landis been involved in the project. Some of his ideas such as DD killing every hero he fights and Superman giving up being Superman are ideas that DC probably wouldn't get behind. From your description, some things do seem good like the return to Smallville and Doomsday being a rampaging beast once again seem interesting. But your eloquent description of the "Krypton is STUUUPID" bit makes me perplexed about what the deal is there. Guess I'll have to watch this for myself to get the full deal.

Landis is somewhat known for being a little fratty so "Krypton is STUUPID" was eloquent when it comes to his persona ahah. But I do think you should watch it because Krypton being stupid plays a huge part in the second half of the story, in which Superman may or may not be a murder so watch out, you might get angry over that, and also because there is still a chance this story becomes reality.

Ah right that does make sense. He's seemed that way in the videos I've seen of him. Regarding the murdering comment, I am fine with Superman 'killing Doomsday' since Doomsday is like an out of control, rabid beastial animal that doesn't listen to reason, has no concept of what it's doing wrong and is genetically programmed to be the ultimate force for destruction. He's a genetic abomination and kind of not alive given his lack of sense of self and other things. But Superman snapping Zod's neck or executing Pocket Universe criminals does get on my nerves since although their deeds are heinous, they are living beings that have made poor choices but that doesn't give anyone the right to take their lives into the hands the way they've done before. That isn't the kind of morality I approve of.

@lvenger: I forgot about some of those mentions.

so is there a link with this description by Landis?

This may be slightly off topic, but can any one tell me when they're going to release the trade of Superman Unchained? Also since it's being cancelled on issue 9, will all 9 issues be in it? Or be a 2 part volume?

I actually think you'll find that's not what happened. In SM/WW #2 WW has no idea who or what Doomsday is, and he is in the Phantom Zone - seemingly he's been trapped there for a very long time and no indication from SM that he'd gotten out (until that issue anyway). When he tells WW he's called Doomsday, the wording used is past tense and removed "they called him Doomsday" - suggesting it's someone else's name for him, someone who maybe isn't around anymore.

When he calls it Doomsday to Zod, Zod doesn't recognise that name, but says it's fitting, so from there the conclusion I guess is he found the name Doomsday from somewhere else - depends on the characters history a bit which is still pretty unclear if you ask me (if they've kept any of the original's, Doomsday as a creature had been on several planets so he may have found references somewhere, but simply, Superman says he doesn't know the Kryptonian word for it, so it seems he learned about Doomsday from somewhere other than his Kryptonian sources). Zod implies Doomsday had escaped the phantom zone at least once before - which we know is a lie - the villains month issues basically show Zod created Doomsday and set him loose upon Krypton.

So... yeah make of all that what you will regarding Doomsday's history but up to this point in SM/WW Doomsday hasn't killed him yet, and the death that has been referenced has already occurred in the timeline the SM/WW is running in (since it took place before they were dating). That or someone over at DC is forgetting part of the continuity they already established. I've been figuring recently that the original death of Superman that has been referenced was when he "died" fighting that 5th dimension Imp.

Wellllllll..I never said it was just Doomsday he could be killing....

I want Superman to beat Doomsday one on one.

@deranged_midget: Where is mentioned? Never was said who have killed Superman...

@sanohibiki said:

@toptom said:

This. Plus his death was mentioned also in the Superman title and it was told that Doomsday was already escaped form the phantom zone in the Superman/WW # 3.

Obviously Dc won't kill Clark again, they are simply using Doomsday for a new story arc but hopefully one day we will get a modern version of the DOS which is set in the past of the new-52 continuity.

Can you please clarify a bit where that was said in SM/WW #3?

All I found is this (from second issue):

There Superman talking about Doomsday recent escape (when he fought Di); then in SM/WW #4 Superman told about Doomsday’ escaping to Zod. In third issue I didn’t find anything about Doomsday.

By the way, Diana’s question about Doomsday in SM/WW #2 is a little intriguing. DOS ended in the big showdown in Metropolis, Both Supes and D “killed” each other… That was quite a big deal then, news was widespread and Doomsday became instantly recognizable as a “monster that killed Superman”. Here Diana asks who that monster is. Perhaps New-52 circumstances of DOS were radically different, or it wasn’t Doomsday who killed Supes in the first time.

yes, sorry, i was talking about that scan you've already posted. Still i think it is probable that Superman was talking about another successful escape of dd from the phantom zone and not the one with wonderwoman. Then regarding the death of Superman it was already said that Doomsday was the one who could kill him in Superman# 20: now i can't find the scan but it was told when Superman was talking with his father (it was a dream,an illusion? i can't remember) and then he gest punched by Orion and the illusion shatters.

@toptom:

yes, sorry, i was talking about that scan you've already posted. Still i think it is probable that Superman was talking about another successful escape of dd from the phantom zone and not the one with wonderwoman. Then regarding the death of Superman it was already said that Doomsday was the one who could kill him in Superman# 20: now i can't find the scan but it was told when Superman was talking with his father (it was a dream,an illusion? i can't remember) and then he gest punched by Orion and the illusion shatters.

I think that Superman in this instance talked about DD’s “escape” in SM/WW #1.”He was real enough in our world to attack both of us” – DD punched Supes out of ocean in the first issue and then proceed to fight Di; “even if he couldn’t come all the way through” – in SM/WW #2 DD got pulled out of our reality back into Phantom Zone. Still, it’s all vague enough to allow other interpretation, so you could be right.

No need for scans, I have this issue on hands. Also don’t know what that was exactly – glimpse in some timeline that didn’t come to exist, hallucination or something else, I just don’t consider it the most plausible information source: in all other instances when Superman’s death was referenced, I don’t remember that it was stated that DD killed Clark and not something else.

Well I hope Doomsday sticks around longer this time than in the teaser in Superman/WW 1 and 2....I wonder actually, if he will kill Wonder Woman this time round and then Superman, blood lusted kills Doomsday? I really don't think another DOS is a good idea, been done before...

So I know this has already been discussed but I just watched Max Landis' video about his take on The Death and Return of Superman. I'll get it out of the way right now when I say I don't always agree with the guy but man, just picturing his envisioning of the story showed the incredible amount of passion this guy has not only for comics, but Superman. It's a tragedy when it makes you think how much the Editorial team probably holds down these writers from exploring stories like these. I really, really dug his take on TDoS. I maybe would've changed some stuff by at least giving Superman a fighting chance against Doomsday but I loved how theoretically, the symbol died. Oh, and Bruce and Dick training Superman was amazing and I loved Landis' enthusiasm for the project.

Here's the vid for those who haven't seen it:

Alternate timeline/Earth - you'll note that both Johnathon and Martha Kent are still alive in that, which isn't the case in the current continuity. He's also married to Lana, ALSO not within the current continuity. Also at the end of (I think) #23 they do another reference to this but then it's never mentioned again... I think Lodbell got sidetracked.... Regardless Doomsday hasn't killed Superman within the N52 as yet, and his earlier death, at most, was likely that caused by the 5th dimension imp.

@wishiwassuperman: It wasn't another reality,it was Clark's mind were we can likely find the memories of his dead parents, the memories (and desires) of lana and ,i think, the memory of his death caused by Doomsday. Plus when he is talking with Diana about dd he is scared, and i higly doubt that he was scared just for the "fight" he has had with him in S/WW #1,when he couldn't even see him. So i belive that obviously Superman has already fought against him before that comic and maybe he was killed in that occasion. Still mine and yours are just speculations and by april we will know something more about those events.

@wishiwassuperman:

Alternate timeline/Earth - you'll note that both Johnathon and Martha Kent are still alive in that, which isn't the case in the current continuity. He's also married to Lana, ALSO not within the current continuity. Also at the end of (I think) #23 they do another reference to this but then it's never mentioned again... I think Lodbell got sidetracked....

Usually I would be first to say about alternate timeline, but in this instance I not sure. Psycho-pirate has telepathic-psionic abilities, not time-space manipulation. Most likely that some mirror image, mix of Super’ hidden wishes – “what if I have managed to save my parents”, “what if Lana didn’t leave Smallville”, some others, made in imagined reality by Pirate.

Regardless Doomsday hasn't killed Superman within the N52 as yet, and his earlier death, at most, was likely that caused by the 5th dimension imp.

Yeah, most likely. I also prefer to think so.