@lvenger: Zod still had the same powerset as Kal. When ever Superman pushes him forward, Zod would just push back in the opposite direction. Taken the battle elsewhere isnt an option. It might possibly be what Zod intended, to use the enviroment against Kal and harm more civilians during their battle. The cyropod solution might Work (if there still a functional scout ship), though Kal and Zod seems to be equally matched, and Zod might have a slight advantage, giving that he is willing to cause more destruction than Kal does. That chokehold at the end seems just to be out of luck.

@tdk_1997: People do make difficult choices in life. You cant always get what you want, not even for the man of steel. Which makes him less of a god figure and more of human being.

To be honest I had no problem with the decision superman made in that setting. Superman is my favorite hero but sometimes he can be so frustrating in some versions I have seen like Smallville. In that version for example doomsday (a version I did not like too much love drama) goes around killing and he had the option to send him to the phantom zone and he didn't, so doomsday continues to go around killing. Killing Zod (MOS) in that setting is not cold blooded murder he saved some lives as a result. He showed great restraint in the whole movie up to the fight with Zod. Got picked on when he was little a lot and in the bar (although he destroyed the truck I can understand that if he left without a little revenge he might as well claim to be Jesus) and he turned himself into the army to prevent conflict over him. If I had his power no one in any of those scenes would have got away with what they did.

@superend: I meant take the battle somewhere like the Arctic or the desert. That's what Superman usually does when fighting a powerful foe.

@superend: Yeah.That's what I think also.

@lvenger: That is what he does when he is in a position to control the fight. In this fight Zod wasn't just looking to beat Superman he also wanted to destroy everyone so the usual methods of superman moving the fight won't work, he can't fly away cause Zod would just stay there destroying and killing until he comes back and he can't force him there cause as he was barely keeping up with Zod in that fight.

Not really. Not always.

@sage1000: Then he could have tackled Zod just like he did earlier and taken him away from populated areas.

Yeah but no one actually got hurt as much as the fight in MOS would have hurt or killed people.

@lvenger: But back then Zod didnt have the abillity of flight yet. Anyway im gonna Watch it agian, and see how much destruction they caused, during their fight. From what I remember, it wasnt on a scale of a nuke. More like one Building was destroyed by Zod's heat-vision, and the rest had some damage given but not enough to make it collaps on itself.

@lvenger: Because is a cartoon? XD

@superend: I'll probably rewatch it on DVD at some point to see if my views change after another viewing.

@lvenger: I think this was the ultimate set up movie for Man of Tomorrow (or MoS 2). So him killing Zod (even though you dont agree) I think was not only necessary for the planet but for his development. This movie sets up how the world will view him either as a threat (cus of the destruction) or as a hero (cus of how he defeated them and obviously we'll see heroics in the next one). It sets up him working at the Daily and it Lois will be helping Clark keep his secret. It sets up Walter Whi... sorry I mean Lex Luthor showing up and cashing in on Superman fight. And finnaly your possible favourite part, his view on killing which will obviously be never to do it again (unless doomsday shows up). Look I think him killing Zod was greatly done and it shows how he didn't like it but Ill agree if he were to kill Lex in the next one or anyone other than Doomsday I would be kind of disappointed.

@hero92: To me, this is a bad way of giving him a reason for being against killing. I mean many people learn to have non killing codes but they don't get them from killing someone. And if anyone can learn on their own to be against killing, it would be Superman. Plus I fail to see how a little scene at the end is a good enough set up for him working at the Daily Planet when it's an integral part of his mythos.

Nolan was the one who said Superman shouldn't kill Zod but Snyder and Goyer pressured him.

@ultrastarkiller: Yes I've long since heard that Nolan was initially against it but Goyer and Snyder didn't want to go for the supposedly 'lackluster' and unfulfilling Phantom Drive/Zone ending.

you are right , but in comics superman develops his "no killing code" right after he has killed those 3 kryptonians. Maybe they will show his resolution in not doing the same in mos 2 ,even if this superman had already such a code (more or less like everyone of us i suppose) but of course he was forced to break it.....along with zod's neck.

No he has the no killing code BEFORE that point. It was bad, bad writing from Byrne in that scenario that goes against 75 years' worth of Superman's history where he's flat out refused to end anyone's life. I fiercely object to him being forced to break it as I and many others have offered alternative solutions to the ending. And when the ending of the film doesn't stop the offering of alternative solutions, then it hasn't done a good enough job.

@lvenger: yes,but after that story his resolution was strenghtened to say the least,unitll he met doomsday of course.Still regarding the film every single alternative(possible or not) solution could have led to many many other deaths along with that family being fried alive. This superman was lucky in stopping and killing zod,since he was just as strong and more skilled than him.Not killing him was the baddest solution ever, and then he will be really responsible for other casualities. Even if you are the most powerful man on the planet you can not have everything like you want, even superman in certain moments can not have more than 2 options.

I disagree with that. Lois had information on the Phantom Drive which could have been useful. He could have taken the battle elsewhere to avoid as many bleeding casualties as he and Zod caused in the film. This would have saved many more families than just snapping Zod's neck would have caused. Not killing him was the worst solution possible because it compromises Superman's moral compass and the very core of his character. He always finds another way to help people that involves standing up for what's right. The failure to show this in the film is a fatal misunderstanding in what makes Superman tick.

i don't think there was even one possible way to use the phantom zone again but i agree on the part that they should have shown to us at least Superman trying (somehow) to move the fight,but there was absolutely no guarantee he could be succesfull in doing that: he was lucky in stopping zod the way he did and he was lucky in not being the dead guy at the end.

Superman always tries to find another way but when he is forced,when there are 7 billions lives in peril he can and should kill if there aren't other options.Superman is not God and we really can see this Zod as if he was Doomsday, and i don't think anyone was remotely upset when kal killed him.

He showed being able to fly incredibly fast so he should have tackled Zod and moved the fight elsewhere.

It goes against everything the character stands for. Ending a life is just not something Superman does or should ever do. There were other ways to save the planet and Superman should have acted on them. Also, it's a faulty comparison to make between Zod and Doomsday. Doomsday was a raging behemoth driven only by instinct and genetic programming. It was a raging animal that could only act in a certain way. By contrast, Zod knew what he was doing and could have done otherwise yet choose to be driven by vengenace and rage.

even Zod at the end was able to fly really fast, butt he was having the upper hand even when he was not flying.

Ending a life is something that even Superman should do if that means saving the whole planet especially were there aren't any other options,as it was intended during the film.Or as it was. There was no way to recreate another portal to the phantom zone, no way to recreate the kryptonian atmosphere and no way to even hope to contain zod. Superman should have tried (again somehow) to move the fight away but at the end there could be another similar situation with another similar or identical solution, since one of the zod's goal was erasing the whole human race.

Then i don't even think it is wrong to compare DD with zod at all. DD was a monster genetically engineered to kill every life form and he was absolutely capable of killing Superman (and the whole planet) while zod is a soldier genetically engineered to protect krypton and his inhabitants, but when he finds himself without a scope he chooses to revenge himself by killing Clark and the whole human race (again). So at the end of the day he was a monster just as dd, with the only difference that he could be even more dangerous since he was clear headed and crazy at the same time.

the whole point of this discussussion is if there was really something else that Superman could have done (i doubt it), but we also have to consider how many lifes could take another course of action.

@lvenger:

I am not trying to start new dispute (tired of them already), simply want to ask about your perception about final fight.

1. Don’t you mixing damage from terraforming in the middle of the city and damage from Kal vs. Zod fight? Because, well, I think it’s a different cases.

2. Watched Superman vs. Zod fight several times. So far it seems like Superman destroyed: lot of paving, building inside of which exploded that Luthor gasoline-or-something tanks (to me it looked like car parking, through I am not sure), Luthor construction site (building, where Zod take off his armor).and external glass wall. Other buildings, most of them were office buildings, were either directly destroyed by Zod or by Zod throwing Superman in them (for that I don’t think its Supes fault).

3. In Smallville Superman managed to grab Zod because he didn’t expect him. In that time Zod wasn’t able to utilize kryptonian senses, his helmet limited them to levels, I think, close to human. Later in Metropolice Zod developed control over sense and were fully aware of environment. Believe a 24-years old guy with around 30 or more serious fist fights under his belt (i.e. me), when your opponent skilled in fighting, aware of your movements and can counterattack, grabbing him is very difficult (which I see in the movie portrayed pretty realistic).

4. After Zed takes his armor off and fight begin in the air, Superman two-shotted him (must add, not through buildings). I think it looked like Clark wanted to disoriented Zod and take fight out of city. Sadly, Zod take blows and flew in middle of the city. Doubtful that if Superman flew out of city, Zod will follow him.

Finally, canon scene. When Zod crushed Clark through 6 buildings in row, Supes finally grapple with Zod and flew with him into space. Then Zod disengaged from him, took hold on satellite and direct it fall on Earth. Superman spread his hands, he wanted to catch it (it shows he wanted to avoid doing infinite damage to city), but Zod intercepts him and they both fall on city.

5. I saw scene with trying to activate Superman’s chip on plane. Lois Lane doesn’t know anything about Phantom Drive. Looks like Jor-El told her something like that: “Terraforming machine have two parts. Say my son to destroy second, far away part. Meanwhile, take my son’s vessel to other part of Zod’s ship, put the Master-Key (sorry, I watched fully dubbed MOS, don’t know how it’s called in English) in it and dump vessel on it. After that everything would be okay”. Why Jor-El simply doesn’t lead Lois to escape pods and told it all to Kal personally, it’s just beyond me.

After that, Jor-El’s consciousness inside Master-Key were lost to Superman (it were thrown into Phantom Zone), and uploaded on ship version of Jor-El were deleted by Zod. Superman simply can’t get advice from his father, how to contain Zod.

Superman could have taken Zod down if he took him away from a populated area where he could hold nothing back

No it's something he should never do. The foundation of Superman's character is a steadfast set of ethical principles which he does not comprimise. They come from his midwest upbringing in Smallville. There WERE other ways he could have stopped Zod. Taking him to the scout ship and slamming him in one of those cryogenic pods for one. Or how about using the leftover Kryptonian tech to fashion a prison for Zod?

There was no way of reasoning or making DD understand what he was doing was wrong. He'd been bred to do a certain thing. By contrast, Zod knew what he was doing was wrong yet chose to spiral down that path all the more. Superman has a strict code about not ending anyone's life, not even his foes. That's a big part of who he is.

I've seen countless alternative theories about how Superman could have stopped Zod. Most recently the hilarious HISHE video for Man of Steel. There were loads of ways Superman could have stopped Zod and the fact Snyder, Goyer and Nolan didn't go with someone else shows a grave misunderstanding of the true core of Superman's character.

As am I in all honesty. I'll try and keep from starting another one.

I can see why you think that and I'm aware Metropolis was quite barran from the terraforming machine. But Superman and Zod's fight practically wrecked the remaining buildings and caused a fair share of damage on its own. That's what irked me off so much

Buildings were also destroyed by Superman and Zod crashing or Superman sending Zod through them. That's not the responsible protector of Metropolis that I'm familiar with. There was no sense of Superman being a protector.

But Superman is way more experienced with his powers. He knows how to control and use them and has had them for all his life. Zod just got them. The experience Superman had should have given him a much greater advantage over Zod. Besides Superman should have just grabbed Zod and flown him somewhere away from innocent bystanders.

Which is why I said Superman should have bear hugged him and taken him elsewhere. He can fly fast enough to move the battle somewhere else, keep Zod there and finish the fight.

Fine. I don't see what this has to do with the fight. If anything, it shows a lack of clarity on Superman's part for moving Zod to an area where he can use the environment in that way.

It was called the codex in English. And I remember her instructing Hamilton in making the Phantom Drive work. There's no reason why some leftover knowledge couldn't have played a part in building a mini Phantom Drive to send Zod back to the phantom zone. That could become Superman's own Phantom Projector that he has in the comics.

It was unknown whether Jor-El's consciousness was lost or whether it could be restarted. In any case, there were cryogenic pods on the scout ship Superman could have put Zod in to imprison him. That's one of the best ways Superman could have secured Zod IMO.

@toptom: I doubt we'd get anywhere if we went further with this debate so shall we agree to differ on this occasion?

@lvenger: of course! even if i don't share some of your ideas, i still respect them and i get that they come from the great love you have for the character. It is nice to see that everebody here wants what he thinks is the best for superman.

I saw people mention lots of things but the scene where he destroy's that guy's truck? after the bar scene?
Was it just me or was that super out of character? pardon the pun

@jorgevy: The trucker should be happy he still has his head attach to his body. Superman is not infallible.

true but seriously, it just seemed so.... not Superman-y. it was just unleashing rage for no real purpose

@jorgevy: Well, the trucker pissed Clark off.he had to take his anger on something. Kinda shows Superman is human before Super.

@sandman_: I know I know, but that's not what I wanted from Man Of Steel and find it odd that everyone complained about others things, such as I did as well, but overlook this or the stealing clothes part. the tiny things matter

@jorgevy: Because they are trivial matters. No importance. No need to make him a saint. Hell, New 52 Superman would have thrown the guy around the bar for doing that. GA Superman would have done worse.

@sandman_: and? just because one version or the other would do this or that, doesn't mean I have to like Man Of Steel's version.

@jorgevy: Then don't. But this was done to show his human side.

@sandman_: I know, but I just think it could be done on another light

@jorgevy: How so?

@lvenger:

Lol, you're one of the pickiest Superman fans I've met! This, Lobdell, thought I saw you have issues with another tittle, What current titles do you like(52 and none 52, but currently in print for Superman).

@drgnx: I only read Unchained as my go to Superman title. I might consider Action Comics again once Pak takes over.

People get too hung up on the idea that the Man of Steel had no choice but to kill Zod, but that's all purely arbitrary. They could just as well have put in a scene where he kicks Zod into the Phantom Zone as the whole thing collapses and it appears to kill him. This yields the same net result of having him understand that some choices are not an option, while leaving it up to the sequels to determine if Zod is still alive or not (or a possible vengeance rampage by Faora etc ...)

Another idea is to have some Kryptonian weapon stashed on the scout ship that might kill Zod. The Man of Steel banks on the chance that Zod can still be reasoned with, but as Zod goes on a rampage, Lois, Perry, the trucker, Batman, the kid from Iron Man, uses the gun and makes the decision for him. You can vary this by having the Man of Steel hang onto Zod, making him an accessory (and place himself in danger).

Establish that Clark had problems metabolising solar power earlier in his life, he has adapted in the meantime, but Zod burns himself up in the fight and threatens to explode and destroy the city, Clark gets him out of the way in the nick of time, but is wounded by the explosion.

One of the Kryptonians has second thoughts about the whole thing and thinks Zod is making a mistake, he sacrifices himself to stop Zod at the last moment and possibly kills him.

Clark is able to use some of the ship atmosphere to temporarily disable Zod, but he prefers to die rather than be at his mercy. Or the US military see their chance and kill him.

Zod develops a different power set from Clark, but it backfires at some point and kills him.

Zod develops more powers than Clark and is about to kill him when Jor El uses some Kryptonian device to become material for a brief period and boost Clark's abilities or sacrifices himself so that Clark gets the time to assimilate his new abilities.

Zod and his fellow Kryptonians are a motley bunch and there is a lot of internal strife. While on earth Faora develops a crush on Clark and refuses to kill him. Zod then appears to kill her and goes to finish Clark, but Faora grabs Zod and tells him that he must stop them. Clark still believes he can reason with Zod, but he kills Faora, just before she wounds him. Clark stops Zod, but the wound turns out to be fatal anyway.

Loyal like a puppy Faora is betrayed by Zod and he then kills her. Turns out she wasn't dead and kills Zod instead.

Instead of the DNA injection, Jor El gives Kal El some kind of Kryptonian nano tech that creates a suit, projects images of his parents and can be transformed into a weapon that can disable Zod, but in the struggle it kills him accidentally.

Alternatively, the injection and his unusual birth give Clark stable powers, while the solar radiation overloads and kills the other Kryptonians over time. Clark kills Zod by pushing him over the limit.

Zod successfully gains access to the life machine and sets up the terraformer. But he's too arrogant to understand the threat the humans pose and while he's giving Clark the thrashing of a lifetime, they do their sneak attack and Zod rushes back to stop it, just too late and again has an ambiguous demise/disappearance.

The Phantom Zone imprisons normal Kryptonians, but kills ones saturated by solar radiation.

"You're not the first alien that's come to this planet."

The Army found earlier Kryptonian probes and has some of the original atmospheric gas for research purposes. They use some modified bombs to gas Zod and render him vulnerable.

Clark defeats Zod and they use the gas to keep him a prisoner, without solar radiation Zod can be held and controlled.

Clark uses the VR "sea of skulls" simulation against Zod, breaks his fragile sanity and Zod ends up catatonic in an institution in a padded, Kryptonian atmosphere filled cell.

Zod is sent into the Phantom Zone, but something mutates him into Doomsday as the credits roll.

Kryptonian military is very ruthless and has devices that increase strength and aggression, like a "Berserker" device. Clark can use it to overmatch Zod in a fight, but Zod holds his own and suggest finishing off the little intermezzo in Smallville and threatens to kill is mother. Clark still in Berserker mode beats Zod into a bloody pulp.

Zod is dying anyway from spending too much time in the Phantom Zone. Clark is torn between fighting him and saving him. In this scenario the Jor El simulation promises to tell Clark everything, but is destroyed by Zod. Zod being his last link to Krypton.

Zod meets Clark in Smallville by the Kent farm, he tries to make Clark join him. When it fails he unexpectedly kills Martha. Same scenario as MoS, just more bloodshed and drama.

Despite his parents' best attempts, Clark Kent grows up to be a hoodlum who uses his still limited superpowers to break into vaults and commit crimes. When Zod appears, he's eager to join, but when they start to harm people he cares about, Clark has a change of heart and fights Zod and kills him, but vows to be a better man from now on.

Zod arrives on Earth and it's one giant North Korean concentration camp lead by Kim-Jong Kent, the utterly ruthless God-like dictator of earth.

Clark stops Zod by killing himself, but Jor El's DNA injection resurrects him into a Christ like figure.

Perry White is given a box of super cigars by Mister Mxyzptlk and saves Clark.

Nick Fury shoots Zod with some unknown energy weapon and recruits Clark into the Avengers.

Etc ...

@kapitein_zeppos: yeah, they could have ended the movie with one of these idiotic deus-ex-machina...

Nonsense.

@hawk80: So I take it you disagree with me that Superman couldn't have found some other way to stop Zod then?

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you here. I thought it was a brilliant film. I never used to like Superman, I always thought he was too unrealistic and that there was no way that anybody (superhero or not) could uphold such 'perfect' moral values without having some sort of internal conflict. I'm a big fan of Batman. I love the fact that he has some major issues and is quite a sombre and serious character, and I really like the fact that this film shows us a darker side to Superman. We see Superman as vulnerable, in an emotional sense, and we feel more able to relate to the character. I personally like the fact that he's confused and conflicted and doesn't know what to do because when such a responsibility is placed on any individual there's, inevitably, going to be doubt and that person will be apprehensive at first. I think the film shows the transition from confused, super kid to saviour of Earth, confident in his abilities and I really like the fact that we get to see how that decision affected him and how he learns and grows. You must remember that as @lilben42 rightly said, this is a very inexperienced Superman and he hasn't had time to develop his iconic morals yet. He's still quite young and it's not easy to be so ethical at that age, in terms of what his morals would require him to do. As for killing Zod, Superman did show a lot of remorse at it and it pained me to watch him do something that pained him (Supes) so much. And I must admit, I was quite shocked but I did feel some satisfaction when he snapped his neck :P (...hopefully I don't sound too psychotic). Also, I think it fits in quite nicely with DC's New 52 reboot (which I also like) where Superman's character is a bit more badass than the good old boy scout routine. You've got to realise that although many people love that 'boy scout' Superman, this film had to also draw in people who are new to the comic world and are younger, more modern and would kinda scoff at the old Superman. This film had to also convince them that any sequels are well worth watching. All in all, I think it was a brilliant film and a fantastic introduction to the character and what will hopefully be an amazing series of Superman films :)

From the sounds of it, Man of Steel had a lot of appeal to the newer fans who'd never read Superman before. For longtime Superman fans such as myself, it was a blemish on the character's history. The character's iconic morals are supposed to be iconic from the get go, not the response of some tragedy. The fact Snyder thought Superman needed some tragedy to have his iconic morals shows a poor understanding of the character. And Superman has been shown to be relatable in far superior ways than how he was portrayed in MOS. I can recommend far better stories where Superman is still a paragon of virtue yet is also relatable to the reader. The 'Nolanization' of Superman doesn't work with who the character essentially is. He isn't about moral ambiguity, he's about moral certainty, knowing what the right thing to do is and acting on it.

@lvenger: But how do you know what the right thing to do is, when you've never faced a situation like that? Okay so the Kents would have told him to never kill anyone but would they have changed their minds if they'd been in that situation? If over 7 billion lives were at stake would Jonathan Kent have told Clark to kill him or let him live? I know I would have told him to kill Zod. I think that's why there has to be some moral ambiguity. Perhaps it wasn't specified what he should do in such a situation and that's why Superman is a bit confused; he's trying to do what the Kents would have done but he doesn't know what they would do if they were in that situation. He's never had this kind of experience before and he made a grave mistake by killing Zod but mistakes are there to be learnt from. I think this will build a foundation for his moral values. It's an original take on the origin of Superman, it doesn't HAVE to stick with the comic image of Superman. It's somebody else's adaptation and it works for some people but not so well for others. All I can say is that I loved it and if there are any sequels I'm definitely going to be there :)

Clark was raised with an impeccable moral compass by the Kents. He may be inexperienced but there is no way Superman should ever comprimise his ethical compass in that scenario. Superman is all about finding a better way to do things and to show humanity what good things we're capable of. Yet I didn't feel like striving towards this Superman in the slightest. He was a glorified super soldier with no proper moral compass or sense of protection towards humanity. So it's a VERY good thing you weren't in Jonathan's position as Superman would be a much lesser man for it. There should never need to be any form of tragedy for Superman to have his moral values. They're an integral part of who he is.

And if you were in Jonathan's position? Would you risk over 7 billion lives so Superman might find a better alternative? And what would have happened if he was unable to find a suitable alternative? At the point in the film he's got Zod in a headlock and hasn't got a lot of time to decide. Yeah he might have been able to throw Zod away from the civilians but Zod is now as strong as him and if they're both resisting each other, it'd be a bit more difficult to overpower Zod that easily. Zod's head might jerked back whilst they were struggling and killed those people. I understand what you're saying in regards to Superman's morals being righteous from the get-go but personally I think that's a bit too unrealistic. For me, the film was good because it showed his human side. Humans make mistakes but they learn from them and I think that was the message being conveyed. I thought it was more realistic and I liked it but if you didn't then fair enough. Everyone has different preferences :)