What the 'Superman/Batman' Movie Needs

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#101 Posted by buttersdaman000 (10001 posts) - - Show Bio

@omnicrono:

I guess we'll agree to disagree. Although, I admit 'middle ground' was the wrong choice of words. But still, these are not the comics. If Snyder shows Superman on the losing end in a fight with Batman, he'll lose the sense of reality and would alienate some of his fans. To me, having a Batman that could easily run through street thugs, outsmart geniuses and so on would be fair. Having any indication of Batgod wouldn't. And really, with this realistic approach, that's the only Batman I can see standing up to Superman. But, you seem to have a grasp on what you want. Enlighten me?

#102 Edited by Omnicrono (1933 posts) - - Show Bio

@buttersdaman000: No worries, my man. I am happy you can admit that "middle ground" was a poor choice of words. And you're right, we can agree to disagree.

As for what I want from the new film, well... I would think that my last couple of posts would be enough to at least partially enlighten you.

I have almost no idea what to expect, and we are all of us speculating based on very little information provided so far. From what we know, it seems very likely that these two are going to do battle at some point in the film (in some way, shape, or form). If that is indeed the case, then it would be silly, to me, to have Batman go into a battle against this godlike super-being, unprepared, and then simply get creamed by him right out of the gate (as he did in that New 52 encounter, but he had Green Lantern with him there, so it worked out).

A better middle ground showing (one that seems to fall more in line with both characters' abilities, and pleases the fans of each) would be something like what was seen in the 90's Superman/Batman animated movie (as someone has already mentioned here). There, Supes gets his licks in, but Bats is still able to stop him in his tracks by whipping out a piece of kryptonite. Bats then shows that he is capable of eluding even the Man of Steel's super senses when he escapes undetected. That was a pretty good middle ground showing which still remained faithful to the abilities of both characters as seen in the comics.

#105 Edited by Mia26 (145 posts) - - Show Bio

@omnicrono said:

@buttersdaman000: No worries, my man. I am happy you can admit that "middle ground" was a poor choice of words. And you're right, we can agree to disagree.

As for what I want from the new film, well... I would think that my last couple of posts would be enough to at least partially enlighten you.

I have almost no idea what to expect, and we are all of us speculating based on very little information provided so far. From what we know, it seems very likely that these two are going to do battle at some point in the film (in some way, shape, or form). If that is indeed the case, then it would be silly, to me, to have Batman go into a battle against this godlike super-being, unprepared, and then simply get creamed by him right out of the gate (as he did in that New 52 encounter, but he had Green Lantern with him there, so it worked out).

A better middle ground showing (one that seems to fall more in line with both characters' abilities, and pleases the fans of each) would be something like what was seen in the 90's Superman/Batman animated movie (as someone has already mentioned here). There, Supes gets his licks in, but Bats is still able to stop him in his tracks by whipping out a piece of kryptonite. Bats then shows that he is capable of eluding even the Man of Steel's super senses when he escapes undetected. That was a pretty good middle ground showing which still remained faithful to the abilities of both characters as seen in the comics.

LOL ..... No, the animated series was not a middle ground, I mean in Batman's animated series he was actually Batman and then when Superman and Batman teamed up, Batman wet Batgod and was making 10 ft high jumps, grabing Superman and throwing him and then disabling Superman with a little piece of kryptonite ? Yeah, not buying it .... Batman would get creamed with or without prep, Superman would have to be severaly depowered, dumbed down and just be standing there for Batman to beat him.

#106 Posted by Hugomarink (1 posts) - - Show Bio

Excellent article! I agree with all of your points. I sure hope that Zach Snyder and the top brass at WB read this. Nice work.

#107 Edited by TheGodofThunder (599 posts) - - Show Bio

This movie needs a different creative team.

#108 Edited by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

What the film needs is a better understanding of the source material, a better paced plot, a more coherent script and a tone down of the epicly destructive action. Then we're getting somewhere. And no more Superman killing or being mopey/emoish or dark and brooding. He's about inspiration, hope, empathy and striving to be better.

I didn't see that in the movie.

#109 Posted by k4tzm4n (49886 posts) - - Show Bio

Excellent article! I agree with all of your points. I sure hope that Zach Snyder and the top brass at WB read this. Nice work.

Thanks! I hope so as well :D

#110 Edited by RedheadedAtrocitus (6885 posts) - - Show Bio

I think you just about covered it for what I'd want out of a Supes/Batman movie. Frankly for me though I want a story to have them meet for the first time and have it be a rocky relationship whereby toward the end they grow quite respectful toward one another and become truly the "Worlds' Finest." I mean I think I'll be happy with whatever script is made, but a first time meeting between the two I think is only fair.

#111 Posted by JuliusTakalua (299 posts) - - Show Bio

DC, to me, failed in that they are just cashing in with Bats and Supes right away.

Still gonna watch it but it's all fanservice... not a genuine movie. I want to see the films done right. WIth respect. The TDK trilogy was amazing because it wasn't about the action, feats, or stupid ass comic-shit-to-silver-screen stuff but because it was scripted terrifically, directed with passion, and conveyed the themes artistically.

Man of Steel tried to achieve that but it ended with just too much action and special effects. Not enough respect for the characters and not enough emotional build up. Great ideas introduced were shorthanded for the massive action pieces which were really not needed. I thought this was the idea for DC films after TDK trilogy. That's why I wanted MoS to be in the Nolan-verse. Because it would force the execs to focus the films on original themes and stories. Because then they would think less about how powerful Superman should be, how awesome fights should be, but focus stuff like bringing Birthright, All Star and other great Superman novels on screen. The church scene, flashbacks, and scenes with Clark/Kal discovering who Superman is were the best parts of the movie that never expanded much. So in a sense, MoS disappointed a lot of us fans who wanted TDK styled film

Marvel is where comic fans can go and cheer for action and entertainment. But DC is where we want superheroes to be works of great art on screen not just on paper. to suddenly tag along Batman for the fans and to rival Marvel is something that WB should not do. WB and DC should focus on making serious movies, to concentrate on the meaning of each heroes. And think about whether they should actually make a Justice League movie because, honestly, I don't see a whole lot of point in the DC films. Sure, as a comic book geek I'd pay to see my favorite ensemble to be on screen but where's their purpose? THe purpose of the director or the writer? That was why I was very excited to see the DCU go forward WITH the dark knight universe. But now that hope seeing better superhero flicks is dying out. This is just "The Avengers" for the DC fans...... Oh come on we don't need that shit. we should care on how these great characters DESERVE to be GREAT on FILM...

#112 Edited by sasquatch888 (358 posts) - - Show Bio

@juliustakalua said:

DC, to me, failed in that they are just cashing in with Bats and Supes right away.

Still gonna watch it but it's all fanservice... not a genuine movie. I want to see the films done right. WIth respect. The TDK trilogy was amazing because it wasn't about the action, feats, or stupid ass comic-shit-to-silver-screen stuff but because it was scripted terrifically, directed with passion, and conveyed the themes artistically.

Man of Steel tried to achieve that but it ended with just too much action and special effects. Not enough respect for the characters and not enough emotional build up. Great ideas introduced were shorthanded for the massive action pieces which were really not needed. I thought this was the idea for DC films after TDK trilogy. That's why I wanted MoS to be in the Nolan-verse. Because it would force the execs to focus the films on original themes and stories. Because then they would think less about how powerful Superman should be, how awesome fights should be, but focus stuff like bringing Birthright, All Star and other great Superman novels on screen. The church scene, flashbacks, and scenes with Clark/Kal discovering who Superman is were the best parts of the movie that never expanded much. So in a sense, MoS disappointed a lot of us fans who wanted TDK styled film

Marvel is where comic fans can go and cheer for action and entertainment. But DC is where we want superheroes to be works of great art on screen not just on paper. to suddenly tag along Batman for the fans and to rival Marvel is something that WB should not do. WB and DC should focus on making serious movies, to concentrate on the meaning of each heroes. And think about whether they should actually make a Justice League movie because, honestly, I don't see a whole lot of point in the DC films. Sure, as a comic book geek I'd pay to see my favorite ensemble to be on screen but where's their purpose? THe purpose of the director or the writer? That was why I was very excited to see the DCU go forward WITH the dark knight universe. But now that hope seeing better superhero flicks is dying out. This is just "The Avengers" for the DC fans...... Oh come on we don't need that shit. we should care on how these great characters DESERVE to be GREAT on FILM...

there's alot of speculation that it wont be a great film but you should wait and see what happens...just like dark knight was better than batman begins i expect this second man of steel movie to be superior to the first. We don't even know who's playing batman yet. before dark night so many people were skeptical about heath ledger playing joker and look what he accomplished. don't prejudge yet.

#113 Posted by sasquatch888 (358 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd love someone to put the League together like Nick Fury did, and Steve Trevor would kind of be good for that, but I don't see it happening since Marvel has already done it. However, having someone powerful in the government actively fighting against superheroes and against the formation of the League would be great, and I think Amanda Waller would be a good fit for that part.

From what I've heard, not only is this gonna be a "verses" movie, but it will also include Lex Luthor and the Joker. A great way to bring these two superheroes together on the same page. Whether Lex and Joker are working together, parallel or against one another. I really hope Bruce Wayne and Lex Luthor will have a rivalry moment as they're both extremely successful C.E.O.s of multinational billion dollar corporations, whether they're directly competing against one another business-wise for a large part of the movie, or its a two-second passerby meeting with a tension filled handshake.

One thing this movie does need in my opinion, if these two are the main antagonists, is to create a real threat to Superman and all this power he wields: a weakness that I'm betting almost everyone was expecting to see in the Man of Steel movie. With no mention or appearance of Kryptonite in any form whatsoever in the film, and Lex being the obsessive egotistical genius that he is, I find it very believable that in this world (that Snyder and Goyer are working so hard to make as realistic as possible) that Lex would be the one to create Superman's greatest weakness of all time. Whether its with whatever he finds from the Kryptonian wreckage of the first film or something else, I think that would be very believable and would add to the amount of massive and sometimes unnecessary changes the recent DC movies make from the source material of the DC comic books.

Also, this is technically a sequel to the Man of Steel movie, and most of the cast of the first movie will be returning, so with that in mind, I'm going to be walking into that theatre in 2015 mindful that a lot of the focus will be on Superman's supporting cast as opposed to introducing Batman's supporting cast. In a nutshell, I know there's little to no chance I'll be seeing Commissioner Gordon or any other Gothamites (and probably won't even see Gotham for that matter), and the only Batman supporting cast I'll see would probably be Alfred, but in saying all that, we won't know what this movie might give us until then.

you said "From what I've heard, not only is this gonna be a "verses" movie, but it will also include Lex Luthor and the Joker" from what you heard ???? where the hell did you hear that ?

#114 Posted by entropy_aegis (15456 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman doesn't have to fight Superman head on,he can figure out his secret identity,play mind games with him involving Martha and Lois,make him doubt himself.Theatricality and deception are powerful agents,if I were writing this I'd have Batman give Superman the illusion that he was unbeatable without landing a single punch or using K-nite or any other plot device,Batman should manipulate him,make him feel an outcast,a threat to everyone.

This is the how good writers handle the Batman/Joker dynamic and this is how Batman is written when he's Batgod a proper Batgod not punch everyone Batgod.

#115 Posted by WELLDONE (12 posts) - - Show Bio
#116 Posted by sasquatch888 (358 posts) - - Show Bio

Would a little lightheartedness be too much to ask?

The Batman/Superman stories are generally some of the lightest stories in DC Comics history - certainly the vast majority of them since they first happened, and a comedic air was even managed for the 2005 Superman/Batman Annual #1, "Stop Me If You've Heard This One", which retold the first meeting between the two for contemporary audiences.

So how about no attempted genocides, no prisoners rioting in the streets, nothing but a lot of fun, outwitting the bad guys and amazing feats of smarts and strength? I understand that this film will reach adult audiences and necessarily involve blockbuster special effects, but will critics and film-goers really turn up their noses at something that makes them smile?

How about Robin, for Pete's sake, who was always a big part of those old World's Finest stories as well? That ought to set the tone properly. How about Ultraman and Owlman as the villains? With a contemporary look, but with the sort of plans hatched by the old Crime Syndicate of America - super-heists and apparent menace sans actual murder?

Even when writing for children in the 1950s, the people behind those comics understood that if there was one thing that was goofier than a handsome flying alien and a bat-themed masked detective combined, it was the idea that the two would meet up and hang out. So they went with it. How hard can that be?

this aint the 50's please they should keep the movie dark .....what you want is Christopher reeve and Adam West.... hell no ...HELL NO

#117 Edited by Omnicrono (1933 posts) - - Show Bio

@mia26 said:

LOL ..... No, the animated series was not a middle ground, I mean in Batman's animated series he was actually Batman and then when Superman and Batman teamed up, Batman wet Batgod and was making 10 ft high jumps, grabing Superman and throwing him and then disabling Superman with a little piece of kryptonite ? Yeah, not buying it .... Batman would get creamed with or without prep, Superman would have to be severaly depowered, dumbed down and just be standing there for Batman to beat him.

Have you read DC comic books lately? Particularly, the New 52 Batman and Justice League?

Batman can make jumps of up to 20 feet across buildings (Justice League #1) and "a little piece of kryptonite" now seems to severely gimp Superman (cannot think of the issue off hand, but will dig it up if you'd like).

Anyway...

So yes, you should buy it.

EDIT: Oh, and nobody said Batman should beat him. We were talking about MIDDLE GROUND showings. Did you bother reading the entire discussion?

#119 Edited by FredrikG (2 posts) - - Show Bio

What the film need is Scott Adkins as Batman!!

#120 Posted by thebatman98 (67 posts) - - Show Bio

Agreed with everything you said except "knocked out with the filick of an alen's finger".Come on man you know it won't be THAT easy.Stop underestimating Batman and stop overrating Superman.

#121 Posted by k4tzm4n (49886 posts) - - Show Bio

Agreed with everything you said except "knocked out with the filick of an alen's finger".Come on man you know it won't be THAT easy.Stop underestimating Batman and stop overrating Superman.

I like how you agree with numerous paragraphs and then claim I'm being biased about the characters because of one lighthearted remark.

#122 Edited by the_dark_atharva (1 posts) - - Show Bio

We can have like at the first part of the movie a common fight and conflict between them and then the enemy comes and they have no choice but team up and cover each other's weakness.

Make it sure both get equal role in defeating the enemy.Maybe at the end of the movie we can see that they say that enemy is not yet over and teaming up is very necessary thus this leading to the 2015 upcoming The Justice League film.

#123 Posted by MartianManhunterIsBetterThanCyborg (2246 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with the OP.

#124 Posted by k4tzm4n (49886 posts) - - Show Bio
#125 Posted by Noctis (1396 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman NEEDS to by played by Jensen Ackles! that's what he needs

#126 Posted by nrgb2814 (118 posts) - - Show Bio

@mia26 said:

@westy206 said:

Problem you have here is an incredibly boring character(superman) and another who best serves the cinema dark, emotional and real (Batman) the two characters I can't see moulding well. What we really need in terms of buddy Hero film is probably Heroes for hire or Cable and Deadpool or Thor and Hercules. Pairings that look right and from the same circle of belief.

Superman isn't the problem you are, people like you who have no understanding of Superman.So they just call him boring because they either have never read a decent Superman story(or never bothered to) about him or they just can'tcomprehend Superman who is clearly complex and and incredibly emotional being. His been around for 75 years am pretty sure his an interesting character.

#127 Posted by AmazingWebHead (3636 posts) - - Show Bio
  • I agree. They already made a whole freaking film about his origin. For the first time, I really don't want to see an origin story told over again for the reboot.
  • Yes, Bruce needs to use his expert planning, but I'm still hoping it eventually comes down to Bruce using his TDKR armor (armed with kryptonite batarangs and red sun-generating gauntlets) trading punches with big blue
  • I'm sick of everyone making a big deal about what happened to Zod. He clearly hated doing it, and he had no choice! Zod literally WOULD. NOT. STOP. Until Clark did what he had to do. Plus, you all act like it's the first time this has happened in a superhero movie. His future co-star, meanwhile, has tied a gargoyle to Joker's leg, left Rā's al Ghūl to die on a train, and shoved Two-Face off a building. Playing favorites, much?
  • True. Plus, one of the best things about Christopher Reeve was that he made the whole "nobody can tell Clark and Superman are the same guy" thing truly believable. Cavill should take notes.
  • Plus, he needs to team up with Joker.
  • Here here!!! Of corse, after Iron Man 3 and what they've announced about Avengers 2, I currently have more faith in DC than Marvel.
  • How all the best superhero crossover fights should end: the heroes stop fighting when they realize they have a common enemy, then they work together and by the end, they're best friends.
  • I'm completely neutral on that last one.

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