What the 'Superman/Batman' Movie Needs

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Posted by k4tzm4n (36482 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman and Superman together in a live-action movie. Let that sink in for a moment. It's finally happening, people, and I couldn't be more excited. While I loved Man of Steel, I of course had some complaints and seeing as that film's creative team (Zack Snyder & David S. Goyer) will be behind the upcoming Superman/Batman project, I sincerely hope they'll learn from their mistakes (or at least what I consider to be mistakes). The movie is still far away and we don't even have the bare basics of what the plot will be, but here are a few key things I think the film needs to succeed.

2015, can you please be here now?

What's a Batman?

By now, it seems fair to assume a majority of the general audience knows who Batman is and knows at least the basics surrounding his origin ("OH NO, MY PARENTS! I'M GONNA PUNCH CRIME IN THE FACE!"). Don't treat us like children and spell it out for us all over again -- there's really no need for that kind of exposition and origin story. Now, I'm not saying to avoid the topic completely. If they can fit an organic conversation in about it, then so be it. But please, don't bombard us with stuff we already know. Instead of backtracking and catching us up to the new and good stuff, just throw us right into a world where Batman is already a prominent figure and an established hero. Seeing as the rumors are WB is looking for an older actor and there was a "Keep Calm and Call Batman" easter egg in Man of Steel, it seems relatively safe to assume this is the road they're thankfully taking.

Please don't Bat-kick Superman in the face.

This looks fair, right?

Anyone with basic knowledge of both characters knows Batman isn't going to take Superman in a slugfest. And Batman? He's kind of a very, very smart guy -- too smart to let it come down to fisticuffs. If you've watched Man of Steel, then you saw how absurdly powerful and fast this cinematic version of Kal is. Even if we get a version of Batman who's more "comic booky" than Nolan's (and I sincerely hope so), even he must be watching the coverage of this guy and saying to himself, "Yeah, I don't think my basic gear is going to cut it."

Yes, I want them to make this version of Batman a formidable dude and very skilled, but that's not what we need to see him use against Superman. They need to really focus on his tactical mind -- otherwise it's going to be a blatantly one-sided experience, and that's sure to make it MASSIVELY polarizing. Bruce needs to be at least a step ahead of the Kryptonian at all times if he doesn't want to get smacked through a wall or knocked out with a flick of the alien's finger. Otherwise, my forehead is going to hurt from an overdose of facepalms. Show us why Wayne has what it takes to eventually be a key part of the Justice League (IT'LL HAPPEN, DAMMIT!). Put his gifted mind on overdrive and make us believe he has what it takes to at least give Clark some degree of trouble as the story progresses. Have him study Kal as the film continues and test him for weakness. It'll be fun to watch and build up to a conflict that will hopefully render Batman as some kind of threat to the Man of Steel.

There's always the potential for this conflict to include Bruce in a DARK KNIGHT RETURNS-esque amor, too. That would certainly be wildly entertaining to watch on the big screen. Naturally, Clark would have to hold back a lot, but at any rate, I'm sure it'll end with them joining forces instead Wayne being forced to fake his demise.

OH, SNAP!

He won't hurt you anymore.

Aside from the damage done to Metropolis, one of the most polarizing aspects of Man of Steel is how it concluded with General Zod. Snyder and Goyer are well aware of how divisive the decision was, but now it's up to them to prove to us that Superman will NEVER KILL AGAIN (unless it's an epic stalemate punch against Doomsday, of course). Make him reflect on that moment -- show us it impacted him beyond that powerful scream. It's not something that merely happened -- it's something that'll make him realize he needs to step up so he never has to reach that conclusion again.

Now that the world knows there's aliens far more powerful (or at least there were) and potentially even more deadly life out there, it's time for them to get a technological boost. Let's see them make sure they're now prepared to incarcerate Superman if needed. Perhaps briefly introduce Amanda Waller or Steve Trevor -- make us see that humanity is doing everything it can to be ready to handle greater threats. They've been essentially helpless once before and it would be foolish not to adapt. Could the Government reach out to Luthor to spearhead this research? Doesn't seem far fetched, does it?

This same mentality applies to Superman, too. Have him hone his powers and talents and think of ways to handle the unexpected. It's a big universe out there and he'd be a fool to think he may never face a threat of equal power again. I'm a defender of the solution with Zod but if this is swiftly pushed aside or never addressed again, it'll be seriously concerning. It was a powerful scene and deserves a lasting impact. So please, don't just quickly move away from the topic like in Man of Steel.

Speak up, son!

I dig Henry Cavill as Superman, but now it's time to see if he can handle being Clark Kent in the city as a talented reporter. Simply put: the guy needs to be more sociable -- even if it is an awkward kind of sociable. Bring on the confident Superman and the mild-mannered Clark Kent. When he is Superman, we need to see him be more elaborate and always serve as a symbol of hope and inspiration. He should exude confidence just like he did in his discussion in the military base and the drone scene. Otherwise, he's going to look like a man-child or a fool in conversations with someone as sharp as Bruce Wayne and potentially Lex Luthor.

Lex's motive.

Make this happen.

Look, whether you want to see Lex Luthor or not is totally irrelevant. The fact is Goyer and Snyder blatantly put a few easter eggs in their film to establish the fact that the character not only exists, but also has a large presence in the city. And now that his concrete jungle suffered major damage because of a battle between aliens, you can bet he won't be too pleased with Kal. Hero or not, Luthor is bound to be suspicious (to say the least) of the alien and this is the perfect opportunity to introduce new technology into this universe. Thanks to his resources, Luthor could eventually gain information on where Krypton was and reach conclusions on Superman's weaknesses from there. Plus, he could create a Warsuit, and if there's one way to top a series of Batman and Superman encounters, it could be seeing them take on a heavily-armored Luthor. If you've watched the animated movie Public Enemies, then you know this has the potential to be a total blast.

Oh, hey there, DC's cinematic future.

It's time to step up your game, Warner Bros. You've teased us with a few easter eggs in Man of Steel, but now it's time to go big or go home. We want a Justice League movie or, at the very least, we want to see these other characters. Yes, Superman and Batman are the clear money makers, but now it's time to turn the other Justice Leaguers into characters the general audience will love, too. Leave us looking towards the future. Whether it's building hype in the film or hitting us with a mid-credits scene, I want to see you guys have faith in your properties beyond just Batman and Superman.

The start of a beautiful friendship.

Friend request sent.

WB is aiming to establish and expand this universe, so concluding this film with Batman and Superman as enemies kind of puts them in a corner. Sure, they could indeed write their way out of it, but I'm sure they'd much rather have this one end with the duo reaching a mutual understanding. This way, the formation of the Justice League can feel more organic in a potential movie and, more importantly, they avoid a fanboy war by having Superman or Batman technically "winning" in this movie.

I know Frank Miller is consulting and yes, some people want a DARK KNIGHT RETURNS inspired ending, but that world was an entirely different scenario. It was a bleak future and Superman was basically the President's errand boy. In this movie universe, it's transparent that's not the case with Superman and... well, seeing Batman function as a tool of the government would just be odd. It was at least justified in Injustice because Superman was aiming to form a regime. Here? Superman saved the world and has blatantly stated he's not here to rule with an iron fist. Yes, they can still be paranoid about that, but it's no reason for Batman to join forces with the government instead of conducting his own investigation on Big Blue.

So yeah, end this one with a friendship and for the gazillionth time, make us believe we could see a Justice League movie in the near future. You've got some great characters in your catalog, WB, so it's time to give them the credit they deserve.

The 'S' Stands for Shopping.

And for the love of all that is holy, let's try to tone down the product placement. I don't mind having it here and there, but it doesn't need to be prominent in so many damn shots. This is sure to be a hit at the box office anyway, so you really don't need the extra piles of cash you'd get in product placement, right?

Is it 2015 yet?

That's just what I want to see, though. So, what about you, Viners? Tell us what you think the movie needs in the comments below.

Staff
#1 Posted by TheAcidSkull (17406 posts) - - Show Bio

what it needs its having ME as batman dammit.

#2 Posted by thesleuth (54 posts) - - Show Bio

The tone of batman in this needs to be very different than the Nolan movies version. More hightech borderline sci-fi gadgets and an intellect that is out of this world.

I gotta say, I have some serieus doubts about this movie. But we will see.

#3 Posted by Grimoire (532 posts) - - Show Bio

Good article and I agree with the points made. I also want to see Batman's tactical mind being used for this movie in particular.

#4 Edited by thespideyguy (2645 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree.

#5 Posted by ReVamp (22863 posts) - - Show Bio

I really don't think that we will be seeing another origin story to be honest, not so shortly after the Dark Knight trilogy has ended, I just really don't see that happening in the movie, but it would indeed be a fatal mistake.

I'm not so sure that we NEED to see other Justice League characters in this movie. I mean, I can't lie, it would be pretty cool to have one of them drop by under an alias (ie Pilot Hal or Scientist Barry) but I won't be too unhappy if it doesn't happen. It just rather see a good movie, I don't need frills.

#6 Posted by k4tzm4n (36482 posts) - - Show Bio

@grimoire: @thespideyguy: Thanks!

@revamp said:

I really don't think that we will be seeing another origin story to be honest, not so shortly after the Dark Knight trilogy has ended, I just really don't see that happening in the movie, but it would indeed be a fatal mistake.

I'm not so sure that we NEED to see other Justice League characters in this movie. I mean, I can't lie, it would be pretty cool to have one of them drop by under an alias (ie Pilot Hal or Scientist Barry) but I won't be too unhappy if it doesn't happen. It just rather see a good movie, I don't need frills.

For sure, we don't need to see them, but it would be nice to throw us a bone and show us they do indeed exist. This could be done via a simple name drop or some kind of easter egg. I just really want them to keep the momentum building when it comes to expanding their universe.

what it needs its having ME as batman dammit.

I'll update the article immediately :P

Staff
#7 Edited by Bobsjonjon (224 posts) - - Show Bio

Totally agree@thesleuth

#8 Edited by TheAcidSkull (17406 posts) - - Show Bio
#9 Posted by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio

Ehrmagerd! Wut it needz are moar darker marvul characterz like Spawn.

#10 Edited by PunyParker (9032 posts) - - Show Bio

what it needs its having ME as batman dammit.

What the boy said.

Online
#11 Posted by Saren (25337 posts) - - Show Bio

Anyone with basic knowledge of both characters knows Batman isn't going to take Superman in a slugfest.

WELL WHAT DO YOU EXPECT FROM THE GUY WHO GAVE MAN OF STEEL 5 STARS.

Moderator
#12 Edited by k4tzm4n (36482 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane said:

Anyone with basic knowledge of both characters knows Batman isn't going to take Superman in a slugfest.

WELL WHAT DO YOU EXPECT FROM THE GUY WHO GAVE MAN OF STEEL 5 STARS.

Haha. I can't wait until someone quotes that and posts "this."

You know, someone who actually does it seriously and not someone who read this post and will do it in an attempt to be funny :P

Staff
#13 Posted by sagejonathan (1829 posts) - - Show Bio

what it needs its having ME as batman dammit.

XD

#14 Edited by nigravirum1 (143 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with all of the statements.... except Batman beating Superman. I think we need that ;) .... But yes I agree that all of those are required in this movie.... especially "the start of a beautiful friendship" one

#15 Edited by sora_thekey (8154 posts) - - Show Bio

I would like to see Bruce Wayne use his detective skills and figure out Superman is Clark Kent and use that as his weapon rather than any comic book gimmick that involves Kryptonite or gadgets.

A reference to Steve Trevor would be cool. Something as subtle as Carol Ferris' cameo in Man of Steel.

If this movie does well it could lead to a Trinity movie and later a Man of Steel 2, Wonder Woman/Amazon Princess movie and a new Batman solo film. Then slowly build up to a JL movie.

Moderator
#16 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (19975 posts) - - Show Bio

When I read the last part it made me laugh because it reminded me of the perfectly unscathed Sears in Man of Steel.

Online
#17 Posted by _Genesis_ (300 posts) - - Show Bio

The movie will fail

#18 Posted by SavageDragon (2248 posts) - - Show Bio

#19 Posted by tuckboarder (43 posts) - - Show Bio

They could honestly destroy their chances of a Justice League movie with their choice of who plays Bruce. But if they get it right, these two have got to just constantly bust eachothers balls with funny one liners that make them have to actually think about what was said. And the gadgets! Lets not go too far with them either, maybe some cooler Batarangs, and more vehicles possibly, but cut it there.

#20 Posted by The Stegman (23242 posts) - - Show Bio

I say give Batman some kind of armor if he is indeed gonna tussle with Superman, kinda like what "The Batman" did

#21 Edited by TheAcidSkull (17406 posts) - - Show Bio

ok for realz this time

We can't use a NOLAN type batman here, Unfortunate, but think about , isn't it too realistic? if Batman isn't mixed in with fiction it just won't work.

#22 Posted by lmothander (98 posts) - - Show Bio

Remember when we all thought they were messing with us in I Am Legend?

#23 Edited by Trodorne (2574 posts) - - Show Bio

I would like to see Bruce Wayne use his detective skills

Whaaaaaa? Bruce wayne doing the job he is supposed to rather than just pleasing a mass audience who just wants to see him in a black armor and use martial arts fighting the joker ALL THE TIME!

Ill state again. Nolan trilogy is over rated. IMO

#24 Edited by ekrolo (431 posts) - - Show Bio

Why is everyone so bitchy about the product placement? Its the real world! I would be bothered if they had these phony brands more than I am of them having real ones.

#25 Posted by RulerOfThisUniverse (6163 posts) - - Show Bio

Awesome article. I agree with all of these points.

#26 Edited by Black_Claw (2920 posts) - - Show Bio

These are some very good points, but knowing that Frank ****ing Miller is consulting has lowered my expectations for this film considerably.

#27 Posted by Mucklefluga (2525 posts) - - Show Bio

Reference the Arrow Tv Show!

#28 Posted by LordRequiem (1309 posts) - - Show Bio

Lex Luthor should only be a minor feature, if any. There is no material strong enough for a war suit for him to use that can withstand Superman in this universe.

And please remember, this is supposedly a bloody Man of Steel sequel so instead of harping on about batman, the focus should still be on Kal. I wonder if they'll give him super breath or freeze breath either, that seems to have been avoided.

Apparently Snyder wants an older Batman, that would suck, simply because he won't be able to do much fighting, and would be too old/decrepit for sequels, justice league etc.

Man of Steel was for the most part, flawless.

#29 Edited by queenfrost_ (2499 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes to all this but in addition I'd like to request that at the end of the film, a space shuttle with a 17 y/o girl inside crashes in to the river.

and I agree with @black_claw. Damn that Frank ****ing Miller.

#30 Posted by Shallbecomeabattoo (364 posts) - - Show Bio

It has to end with them becoming friends. Not enemies, with shared goals and a certain amount of respect... Friends! Its cool for them to be enemies at the start, because it wouldn't make any sense that someone as paranoid and crazy as Bruce would trust an alien god, who was part fo such a world changing event. Its absolutely right that Bruce sees him as a danger and as something that has to be dealt with at first, but that has to be changed.

And about the Dark Knight Returns style ending... Won't happen and I am glad. WB doesn't build p a character in a movie and then breaks him down in the next. At least I hope.

#31 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32993 posts) - - Show Bio

WB have already officially debunked the rumour that they would be casting an older actor

#32 Edited by Jonny_Anonymous (32993 posts) - - Show Bio

@queenfrost_: Super Girl is already on earth in the MoS universe

#33 Edited by EmperorJosh (94 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordRequiem they could do to Lex what Marvel did to Loki and make him the main baddy because of the alien events that occurred in MoS. Plus Lex has access to things that others don't.

2. This ISN'T Man of Steel 2. Its separate.

3. The older version of Batman is to avoid the origin story. I would think that we are smart enough to know that Batman won't be an old man smh...

#34 Posted by Captain13 (3284 posts) - - Show Bio

Why do people underestimate good looking actors like Gosling, Newman, Pitt, Clooney, Depp, Ledger, etc. until later in life?

#35 Posted by Seathdroke (17 posts) - - Show Bio

Don't call it "Superman vs. Batman". That's some pandering nonsense that doesn't belong in cinema. Go with Superman/Batman or maybe..... "Dark Knight/Man Of Steel"

#36 Posted by Ostyo (6814 posts) - - Show Bio

Screw that, product placement ahoy!

#37 Edited by sora_thekey (8154 posts) - - Show Bio

@trodorne: I don't disagree.

Remember when we all thought they were messing with us in I Am Legend?

I like that logo better than the one we got at SDCC.

Moderator
#38 Posted by 2cool4fun (1362 posts) - - Show Bio

As long as batman des not win in some retarded 100% in batman favor way ( since lets be air that is the only way batman could win, well that or like in dark knight returns with superman fighting with only 35% of his strength ) I will be happy, I trust in Snyder, he`s a good man.

#39 Posted by Captain13 (3284 posts) - - Show Bio

Don't call it "Superman vs. Batman". That's some pandering nonsense that doesn't belong in cinema. Go with Superman/Batman or maybe..... "Dark Knight/Man Of Steel"

Yeah, Superman/Batman: Public Enemies, Superman/Batman: Absolute Power, or World's Finest also work.

#40 Posted by leokearon (1767 posts) - - Show Bio

@seathdroke said:

Don't call it "Superman vs. Batman". That's some pandering nonsense that doesn't belong in cinema. Go with Superman/Batman or maybe..... "Dark Knight/Man Of Steel"

Yeah, Superman/Batman: Public Enemies, Superman/Batman: Absolute Power, or World's Finest also work.

World Finest would be a great title. Better than Man with Dead parent issues Vs Man with Dead parent issues

#41 Posted by The Mast (782 posts) - - Show Bio

What it "needs" is to not even be made UNTIL all parties involved have their hearts in it to the fullest. Anyone and their mother, plus Stevie Wonder, can see this is a reaction to The Avengers and the M.C.U. It's just plainly obvious. It's not about how this would work, it's about forcing it out there.

Fox don't give an eff. There are so many continuity errors in the X-Movies that it's clear they never intended what they're doing. It's just them following Marvel Studios' lead. M.S. did Iron Man with a vision. Everyone else is just following suit without figuring why they should or if they can. Man of Steel needed Iron Man-like reception to launch this shared universe and it was met with a more negative side of division. Consider how highly-rated the Nolan movies are and then consider that you're now asking the public to accept a new Batman.

It's just doomed. I'm not mad, because I just won't watch it. I'd love it to be as amazing as The Avengers, but it won't be. Simply because it's not about doing it right. Just doing it.

#42 Posted by CaptainHoopla (911 posts) - - Show Bio

I must be the only one that thinks we won't even see them shove each other, let alone them actually trading punches.

#43 Edited by bloggerboy (543 posts) - - Show Bio
@ekrolo said:

Why is everyone so bitchy about the product placement? Its the real world! I would be bothered if they had these phony brands more than I am of them having real ones.

It's not the real world. Real world doesn't have Wayne Industries, LexCorp, STAR Labs, GCPD, Queen Industries etc. etc. etc.

We are talking about a fictional universe named the DC Universe.

People aren't going to fangasm about Bruce Wayne CEO of Nokia.

#44 Posted by clayscarface (107 posts) - - Show Bio

Definitely agree with the article. I'm very skeptical and pretty nervous about how this will play out. Need to get more information as the development actually goes forward. As for other characters, a stinger or anything that hints at the larger universe would be great. You mentioned Steve Trevor, that's a good opportunity to mention WW. Hell, I'd be happy seeing a green streak across the sky to let us know GL is in the same universe, instead of just brands that point to the potential for these people (see STAR Labs and Blaze Comics).

#45 Posted by RavenVice01 (213 posts) - - Show Bio

@captain13: Barry Allen would be better off playing Barry Allen then Bruce Wayne. The things we can count on for Superman vs Batman is Lex Luthor (CEO of LexCorp with aspirations of becoming President), actual kryptonite, Amanda Waller may appear but they should save Steve Trevor until Wonder Woman is introduced and hopefully bring the Joker into play. Bruce will use the kryptonite to keep Superman in check while Lex hires Joker to take out Batman and Superman with kryptonite that way Lex's hands stay clean of any involvement. Bruce and Lex will probably enter some hostile takeover plot which causes the Batman to crack down on Lex's illicit business deals. I sure hope they bring Director Bones into this movie. Maybe he could be Waller's boss.

#46 Posted by MuyJingo (1592 posts) - - Show Bio

Agree with almost everything in the article.

I think a determining factor will be if any of the comic book vulnerabilities are introduced. Red sun light, kryptonite, etc...

I have to say I didn't really have a problem with the product placement...only Sears was prominently featured. Crashing through a 7-11 into an i-hop wasn't really bad. It makes sense to crash through a gas station like that, and inside the i-hop it wasn't obviously an i-hop....

The only thing I do think is that the killing at the end of Man of Steel is going to be essentially forgotten. It won't be the cornerstone for character development, and he may even kill again. In fact, I'm calling it now.

#47 Posted by kid Apollo (709 posts) - - Show Bio

Death_by_Smoke and i came up with a decent plot basis the other day. theres a merger planned between Lex Corp and Wayne Industries which puts Bruce vs Lex. meanwhile Lex has started making moves against Superman. Bruce does what he did in DK and uses the Batman alter-ego to investigate LExcorp which inevitably brings him up against Superman. Not knowing who Batman is or who he works for leads the two of them to fight. at teh end when they realize they both against Lex they form an uneasy alliance.

i DO NOT want them to be buddy buddy from the start. id love it if they gave a nod to the old way for 2 heroes to meet...a fight in the streets

#48 Edited by Lvenger (18521 posts) - - Show Bio

What the film needs is a better understanding of the source material, a better paced plot, a more coherent script and a tone down of the epicly destructive action. Then we're getting somewhere. And no more Superman killing or being mopey/emoish or dark and brooding. He's about inspiration, hope, empathy and striving to be better.

#49 Posted by herrweis (428 posts) - - Show Bio

Imthink if they introduced Amanda Waller and Steve Trevor it would be amazing ,totally would lead into a Trinity movie and just set DC up for that huge franchise

#50 Posted by BritishMonkey (321 posts) - - Show Bio

Pretty much got everything said right.

A couple things though, it shouldn't be Superman vs Batman. Yes, we can have Bats and Supes pound each other to custard but they need a common enemy. So Lex and Joker, though is it too soon to have another Joker after Ledger's?

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