Supergirl rant

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#1 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

It's easy to argue back and forth as to whether or not Supergirl has been portrayed as a 'typical teen,' because it's a false model. Some say yes, some say no. But we're not talking about a typical teenager, we're talking about one of the most recognizable superheroines in comics. She even had a movie (well, not a very good one, but still). The recent internet uproar over the portrayal of Supergirl (and Batgirl, but we’ll focus on Supergirl for this rant!) demonstrates how strongly she strikes a chord with both male and female readers, and yet in Supergirl's comics she has been portrayed as anything but heroic. It's been incredibly disheartening for those of us who want to see a Supergirl we can admire. It's also easy to blame ALL of the problems on the art, which, with the notable exception of Amanda Conner's excellent fill-in issue, has shown her to look too old, too tall, too skinny, too slutty, and seriously unfashionable by anyone who knows teenagers. The writing and art often come off as a rant about how dumb teenagers are, rather than offering teenagers a model (even an imperfect one) to aspire to.

The 'nutshell' epiphany I had was this: Imagine young Clark Kent, Peter Parker, Steve Rogers, Bruce Wayne or any of the incredibly selfless, awesome HEROES we know and love, and run them through the ringer of degrading stories Kara Zor-El has been put through since her reintegration into the DCU. She's not had her own story, she's not had hope, and she's not had a good costume. If Peter Parker was portrayed in the recent Spider-Man movies as a 'typical teen' in the manner that Kara has been, I really doubt anyone would have enjoyed it. The same goes for Clark Kent on Smallville (though in that instance, they may have erred too far in the whitebread direction). Of course Peter Parker shouldn't be drawn making out with his cousin. Of course Clark Kent shouldn't be nearly naked in every show. Of course Bruce Wayne shouldn't have his origin story mired in knowing every single character in the DCU. Of course not, but wait, is it because they're males? Or because they're supposed to be heroes?


Sorry... Supergirl smokes, drinks and has a tattoo now?!?!? WTF!!!

When you attempt to put a hero you actually like in the same situations with the same responses as Supergirl, it becomes clear that the Supergirl team doesn't think of her with the same feelings that they think of other 'real' heroes. She hasn't shown any characteristics people admire in heroes and she hasn't been given a chance to stand on her own (even if it's within a powerful legacy). I honestly believe that a good writer and artist (maybe it's not Ale Garza ?) could fix the series in a single issue, and set it on a good path. The easiest issues:


old intro 1
  • Kara needs to drop her love interests and find a sustainable setting for her series. This could involve a secret identity, but it might be cool without one.

  • She needs a costume overhaul ASAP. I have ideas myself, but anything that could appeal to young girls as well as teenage readers would be great. Appealing to the frat boy in male readers is not the solution.

  • The book needs less DCU interaction, at least for a while. The whole universe is too densely packed right now for new readers to get to know a single character. Supergirl is special, and she needs the opportunity to show why.

But which Supergirl is superior? The original, or the ultra-updated Jeph Loeb/Michael Turner version?

Let's see, using our patented "visual system of comparison." Here's how DC originally introduced her: See left images


old intro 2

Wow. She makes Superman seem slow. She's bright, vivacious and evidently one of her powers is super-self-confidence. She's totally in charge of the situation, and happy about it:

"Hey, Superman! I'm here, I'm unstoppable and your life will never be the same again!"


New introduction!

Sure, the dialogue is stiff and overly expository but seeing her characterized like this brings out how Supergirl should be...

And here's how they re-introduced her: see right image...

Wow! That's progress! No more of that un-girl-like self-confidence. She can't even speak for herself, and while I'm sure there's a logical story-based reason for her to be naked... I can't imagine why she wouldn't take some time to wrap Superman's cape completely around herself, bath-towel style, instead of just draping it. Oh right... then she wouldn't give teenagers and creepy old men boners.

Basically the last few issues have just proven to me that this “New” Supergirl, is nowhere near as good as the original, hell she’s barely half the heroine that Linda Danvers started off out as... this Supergirl drinks, smokes, has a tattoo and persists in being a whining emo annoyance tagged on to the Superman name. Personally my thoughts are, kill this one off, ASAP, the sooner the better.


old intro 3

While I really respect DC for ‘having another go’ at the character, especially with the amazing introduction artwork from Turner and Loeb, this character has just been letdown after letdown, and is currently only being used to sully the good name that the previous three Supergirls have worked up for themselves in the DCU.


old intro 4

M
Post Edited:2008-02-05 03:24:30

#2 Posted by Cosmic Sentinel (3749 posts) - - Show Bio

I felt the same way about the smoking and the tat and the slutty attitude. I think both companies would benefit from learning to write their female characters like guys a bit more. Thinking to themselves; would we want Superman doing that? would we want Captain America behaving like that. I think they could both stand to get more female artists, editors and writers in and some of the guys could try talking to real women and looking at media aimed at women to see how they really behave.

#3 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

i've just been rereading a lot of the old stuff lately, and then comparing the original Kara Zor-El to this latest incarnation...

i can honestly say there is no comparison, i'd give up every issue of Supergirl i own to bring back the original and have some actual good storylines focused on her for a change.

M

#4 Posted by Final Arrow (24359 posts) - - Show Bio

I have to admit I only have only read the Saga with the crsytals. But have read alot of the older stuff and I agree in part, I agree that they need to focus on her, But is it not part of every comic company to try and bring a character into the prsent day, Supes has even been updated(a little), But they have done it the wrong way, But she was good in the Batman Superman team ups!

#5 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

yeah... her origin story was first rate...

i have no problem with the way the introduced her, it was a kick ass story...

it's how they're treating her and writing her after that... in the twenty or so issues since she's just become a whiny emo brat

M

#6 Posted by Final Arrow (24359 posts) - - Show Bio

Methos says:

"yeah... her origin story was first rate...i have no problem with the way the introduced her, it was a kick ass story...it's how they're treating her and writing her after that... in the twenty or so issues since she's just become a whiny emo bratM"

Yeah I think they are trying to get a new market or something LOL I mean the Emo's make up half the populationt:p

#7 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

Final Arrow says:

"Emo's make up half the populationt:p"

i suddenly feel violently ill...

M

#8 Posted by Final Arrow (24359 posts) - - Show Bio

LMAO I add an extra T on the end whoops!

Yeah but I think they are trying to conect with the younger genartion, But they are doing a pretty poor job of it!

#9 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

yeah... none of the 'next gen' superheroes really appeal to anyone...

this latest incarnation of Supergirl is basically an insult to all the previous ones...

i don't like it one bit!

M

#10 Posted by Cosmic Sentinel (3749 posts) - - Show Bio

Final Arrow says:

"I mean the Emo's make up half the populationt:p"

Sounds like a reason to buy a gun and as much ammo as I can physically carry.

#11 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

roflol...

nah, i prefer poisons... much more fun than bullets

M

#12 Posted by Cosmic Sentinel (3749 posts) - - Show Bio

Last_Arrow says:

"Cosmic Sentinel says:
"Final Arrow says:
"I mean the Emo's make up half the populationt:p"
Sounds like a reason to buy a gun and as much ammo as I can physically carry. "
Sound like a paln, If me and Methos start in the UK and we meet you in the middle :p"

Works for me, but I'm in the UK too. How about we start here, then clear America.

#13 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

clearing the UK of Emo's... we can start on the Chavs after and have the perfect island all to ourselves :D

M

#14 Posted by Cosmic Sentinel (3749 posts) - - Show Bio

Methos says:

"clearing the UK of Emo's... we can start on the Chavs after and have the perfect island all to ourselves :D M"

Paradise.

#15 Posted by Crocbait (101 posts) - - Show Bio

who has adapted supergirl? i mean, who artists have drawn her? is there a part on the bio of characters that i missed that show who have adapted them? ...owel.. i was just wondering if michael turner ever drew her.

#16 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

Crocbait says:

"wi was just wondering if michael turner ever drew her. "

Yeah, Michael Turner drew her in her recent origin story and has done sever covers for her as well...

M

#17 Posted by zero edge (3692 posts) - - Show Bio

Michael Turner draws everything thats mainstream...... kinda wished he'd go work on the titles he made... oh yeah doesn't he have his own company? I'm surprised it hasn't gone out business yet.

Anyways, there are tons of Turner drawn Supergirls in the gallery.

#18 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

Was that last one Turner?

Turner did the cover i know that, but i didn't think he did the interior,

The comic lists Churchill for Pencils and Norm Rapmund for Inks

No mention of Turner's work inside

M

#19 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

yeah, the Lex - Supergirl one...

that was in issues 3 - 5 of Supergirl V4

but i can't find it as a cover or any of Turner's work... i thought it was Churchill

M

#20 Posted by zero edge (3692 posts) - - Show Bio

He only did covers for the Supergirl comics while Churchill drew everything else, are you talking about the one with Lex and SG? I think that ones a cover too, I have that issue somewhere.

#21 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

yeah...a lot of the twin supergirl covers we done weird as well, one Supergirl was done by Turner and the other by Churchill...

it's just a matter of trying to figure out who drew which Supergirl lol

M

#22 Posted by zero edge (3692 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm sure I've seen that cover, didn't they release multiple covers for the first 10 issues or so? One done by Turner, and one done by Churchill. I'll try and dig up that cover in a bit.

#23 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

yeah, both Turner and Churchill have amazing skills when it comes to drawing the female body lol

M

#24 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

alternate cover to issue 3?

that was the Outsiders cover if i remember correctly... with her mooning over Nightwing for the entire issue lol

M

#25 Posted by zero edge (3692 posts) - - Show Bio

You could totally tell the difference though. That cover was actually my favorite SG cover of this volume. I liked how they had both Turner and Churchill draw that one cover. I love both of their art.

#26 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

yeah... just checked, i have the outsiders cover...

M

#27 Posted by Buckshot (18913 posts) - - Show Bio

Methos says:

"alternate cover to issue 3?that was the Outsiders cover if i remember correctly... with her mooning Nightwing for the entire issue lolM"

Supergirl? Mooning? Where?

Moderator
#28 Posted by zero edge (3692 posts) - - Show Bio

Ahhh found it.... lol it was already in the CV database. But it's a crappy tiny image, maybe I should scan my cover and upload it for a better quality.

#29 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"Supergirl? Mooning? Where?"

Different type...

though it was established in a recent issue that she does wear thongs...

another point of the version of this character i'm growing quickly to hate

M

#30 Posted by zero edge (3692 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, but it ended with the confrontation with Lex and evil SG.

#31 Posted by zero edge (3692 posts) - - Show Bio

Methos says:

"Buckshot says:
"Supergirl? Mooning? Where?"

Different type...

though it was established in a recent issue that she does wear thongs...

another point of the version of this character i'm growing quickly to hate

M

"

Hey... she's gotta wear something comfortable under that tiny skirt... =D

#32 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

yeah, but a thong?

seriously, that's the image she portrays when flying over people or landing? seriously?

M

#33 Posted by zero edge (3692 posts) - - Show Bio

Methos says:

"yeah, but a thong?seriously, that's the image she portrays when flying over people or landing? seriously?M"

Look at your own discretion, she's jail bait.

#34 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

zero edge says:

"Look at your own discretion, she's jail bait."

She's older than Clark...

M

Buckshot says:

"I'm with you methos. No thongs. No underwear at all."

M

#35 Posted by zero edge (3692 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah suspended animation sucks, that's an awesome manip by the way.

#36 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

zero edge says:

"Yeah suspended animation sucks, that's an awesome manip by the way."

so she's older than Clark, but only 16...

i'm confused lol

she has a backstory that makes Powergirl's look simple :p

here's another for you Zero... he needs to be cast for the JLA movie just to give it credence

M

#37 Posted by Buckshot (18913 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm with you methos. No thongs. No underwear at all.

Moderator
#38 Posted by zero edge (3692 posts) - - Show Bio

HAH that dude really does look like Ollie. He needs a bigger goatee though.

#39 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

Keifer Sutherland is the perfect Oliver Queen...

it's so perfect it just has to be done

M

#40 Posted by zero edge (3692 posts) - - Show Bio

He kind of looks like Mark McGwire...

#41 Posted by Shaper (5168 posts) - - Show Bio

I finally read some of her comics and she seemed really cool. But still don't like it how she smokes.

#42 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

ok, can't be bothered starting a new thread for this, but did anyone read yesterday's issue?

i had to put it down half way through and check my cigarettes for illigal substances...

seriously, what were the writers smoking for that issue, and where can i get some?

the art work just felt off for the entire issue and the storyline... i don't know what to say, the entire issue felt like a crack induced nightmare!

M

#43 Posted by zero edge (3692 posts) - - Show Bio

What's going on? I last read issue 26 and thought it was pretty good, showing Supergirl's struggles on Earth.

#44 Posted by zero edge (3692 posts) - - Show Bio

all right thanks, I won't pick this issue up at all lol

#45 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

it's just one of those issues that makes you need to check the white powder you put on your cornflakes in the morning was actually sugar...

i can't make heads nor tales of it and am not sure whether to change Batman's cannon details to include immortality now lol

M

#46 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

yeah, i was hoping for more of that...

we got a weird storyline about Supergirl going into a Utopian future after someone came back in time to assassinate her because the future that she created apparently is too perfect, with a massive statue of her proclaiming her as 'savior of mankind' and Bruce Wayne is now apparently immortal and still alive 400 years in the future...

M

#47 Posted by Terry Handson (1594 posts) - - Show Bio

personally i like kara better than linda

#48 Posted by Buckshot (18913 posts) - - Show Bio

Methos says:

"it's just one of those issues that makes you need to check the white powder you put on your cornflakes in the morning was actually sugar...i can't make heads nor tales of it and am not sure whether to change Batman's cannon details to include immortality now lolM"

It's looking like Batman (if he is the real Batman, his answer about that was a little shaky to me) might be using Kara's gift. I was gonna make a thread about it earlier to talk about the possibilities of the Kryptonian tech being used instead of getting forgotten, but I remembered you were mad at Supergirl and didn't know if you wanted to hear it. I think that same orb-thing might be what she uses to save the kid in the hospital. At first I thought she'd make the star-suit guy do it somehow (he did sarcastically ask if he should be out saving cancer or something like that) but I'm thinking the K-tech might make more sense. I've liked the last 3 issues.

Moderator
#49 Posted by Vance Astro (91114 posts) - - Show Bio

Why the f#ck would a krytonian need to drink and smoke.And with their durabilty who the hell do you give one a tattoo.

Moderator
#50 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

the K-Tech might make sense, but she was told, in no uncertain terms either, not to save the kid...

i'd be interested in a kryptonian tech thread, would be interesting to see what people think about the uses for it :D

M

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