DCnU Series Discussion Thread

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#1 Edited by Jake Fury (18629 posts) - - Show Bio

Thoughts on the new series?
#2 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jake Fury said:
Thoughts on the new series?
Thought it was okay. I liked it. Still too recent to say though. Apollo and Midnighter aren't really leaving a good taste in my mouth, specially the former.
#3 Posted by Jake Fury (18629 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReVamp
Were you a WildStorm reader? I'm basically starting from scratch and was curious about what the diehards think.
#4 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jake Fury said:
@ReVamp: Were you a WildStorm reader? I'm basically starting from scratch and was curious about what the diehards think.
Yes, on more of the older stuff, pre World Storm. Though since I'm haven't read Wildstorm in a bit, I don't feel like I have that connection to Wildstorm anymore. That and the fact I'm looking at the DCnU with a clean slate and am trying not to connect any titles with their succesors. I did think it was quite interesting the way Martian Manhunter was incorporated, though.
About Wildstorm more specifically I think Jack was written well, didn't have anything against it. Apollo and Midnighter are completely different and I'm not big on their new personalities. That is to say I really don't like it. Midnighter doesn't seem that bad, even though his costume is horrible. He did have a nie scene. (I'm rushing through most my ideas so bear with me). Don't know about Jenny Quantum though... I was really hoping for Jenny Sparks =(. Also, Engineer seemed cool. Lastly, I liked the new Character but I'm missing the... girl with wings. I forget her name.This is kind of messy, since I'm sitll getting my thoughts write, but I'm definitely creating a bigger blog on the (ex) Wildstorm universe.
#5 Edited by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

I read it. I was a little let down. Not by the concepts (though there's one they haven't sold me on yet) or characters really, more by the lack of subtlety in the unfolding of both. The exposition was a bit thick, even taking into account that it's a first issue. That was my only real problem with it. I mean, I also don't like the art and I don't know if that is because of the coloring or inking, but unless it's utter crap, art is something I can deal with if the writing is good and it's not like the art was terrible or anything. Otherwise I'm looking forward to good things. I liked this from MightyGodKing, "You kind of have to love that Paul Cornell’s answer to the redundancy of Stormwatch in a universe that already had the Justice League is to say that Stormwatch are the real defenders of Earth and that the Justice League are posers, and to have the Martian Manhunter be the one to say that to boot. That takes balls I didn’t think anybody writing for DC still had." And yes, the redundancy of Stormwatch in a universe that has the JL is the thing they haven't sold me on. They say they're not superheroes but at this point they don't seem different other than that they're not publicly recognized. And since they gave up The Authority's objective of saving the world from itself just to take on one of saving the world from alien threats and doing it secretly, they really need to do that well because it's not terribly original.

@ReVamp said:

@Jake Fury said:
Thoughts on the new series?
Thought it was okay. I liked it. Still too recent to say though. Apollo and Midnighter aren't really leaving a good taste in my mouth, specially the former.

SMH

Moderator
#6 Posted by Jake Fury (18629 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReVamp
@Buckshot: 

From someone who had never read anything Wildstorm/Authority I enjoyed it. It sort of felt like the Justice League Elite if I had to compare it to something I am remotely familiar with.
#7 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio
@Buckshot said:

I read it. I was a little let down. Not by the concepts (though there's one they haven't sold me on yet) or characters really, more by the lack of subtlety in the unfolding of both. The exposition was a bit thick, even taking into account that it's a first issue. That was my only real problem with it. I mean, I also don't like the art and I don't know if that is because of the coloring or inking, but unless it's utter crap, art is something I can deal with if the writing is good and it's not like the art was terrible or anything. Otherwise I'm looking forward to good things. I liked this from MightyGodKing, "You kind of have to love that Paul Cornell’s answer to the redundancy of Stormwatch in a universe that already had the Justice League is to say that Stormwatch are the real defenders of Earth and that the Justice League are posers, and to have the Martian Manhunter be the one to say that to boot. That takes balls I didn’t think anybody writing for DC still had." And yes, the redundancy of Stormwatch in a universe that has the JL is the thing they haven't sold me on. They say they're not superheroes but at this point they don't seem different other than that they're not publicly recognized. And since they gave up The Authority's objective of saving the world from itself just to take on one of saving the world from alien threats and doing it secretly, they really need to do that well because it's not terribly original.

@ReVamp said:

@Jake Fury said:
Thoughts on the new series?
Thought it was okay. I liked it. Still too recent to say though. Apollo and Midnighter aren't really leaving a good taste in my mouth, specially the former.

SMH

What? As a Wildstorm reader you're not telling me you miss the old Arrogant apollo who just flew straight through peoples guts, or submerged into lava and came out like a bad***? Or are you shaking your head at the... taste in the mouth part? o.O
 
@Jake Fury said:
@ReVamp: @Buckshot: From someone who had never read anything Wildstorm/Authority I enjoyed it. It sort of felt like the Justice League Elite if I had to compare it to something I am remotely familiar with.

Yeah its like that. I think its a good series, but not much went on with it, it was too broken down in different parts. I still liked it and everyone knows these first issues are hard to pull off for teams, so I'm cutting some slack. My only problem is that I feel like this isn't Apollo but his shy cousin. I mean I know he's supposed to be new and everything and while I comprehend he may end up like he was before, I'm still not digging him. And I think Midnighter is just very good, I don't think that I will ever be able to get over the fact that he's wearing a chin spike. I mean really?
#8 Posted by Mercy_ (92698 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not sold on it, yet. 

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#9 Posted by Son Of Storm (11297 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Dark Huntress said:
I'm not sold on it, yet. 
#10 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio
@Son Of Storm said:
@The Dark Huntress said:
I'm not sold on it, yet. 
Any reason specifically? Or just in general?
#11 Posted by Mercy_ (92698 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReVamp: The art was a littleeeeeee bit off for me and I've never read any WS before. So as somebody completely new to the vast majority of these characters it was a little confusing. I'll definitely give it another issue or two before deciding if I drop it, though.
Moderator
#12 Posted by Son Of Storm (11297 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReVamp said:
@Son Of Storm said:
@The Dark Huntress said:
I'm not sold on it, yet. 
Any reason specifically? Or just in general?
It just seemed a little off to me. I can't really explain it. Maybe issue 2 will help.
#13 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Dark Huntress said:
@ReVamp: The art was a littleeeeeee bit off for me and I've never read any WS before. So as somebody completely new to the vast majority of these characters it was a little confusing. I'll definitely give it another issue or two before deciding if I drop it, though.
I really dug the art. But if you have any further confusion you can pm me and I'll try to help... I liked it, like I mentiond above. 
@Son Of Storm
Hmmm, I see. Well this was a bit all over the place,we had 4 or five different places and characters interacting. 
#14 Posted by Son Of Storm (11297 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReVamp said:
@The Dark Huntress said:
@ReVamp: The art was a littleeeeeee bit off for me and I've never read any WS before. So as somebody completely new to the vast majority of these characters it was a little confusing. I'll definitely give it another issue or two before deciding if I drop it, though.
I really dug the art. But if you have any further confusion you can pm me and I'll try to help... I liked it, like I mentiond above. 
@Son Of Storm: Hmmm, I see. Well this was a bit all over the place,we had 4 or five different places and characters interacting. 
Indeed.
 
Another thing. Am I the only one confused with the pressure point KO of MM?
#15 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio
@Son Of Storm said:
@ReVamp said:
@The Dark Huntress said:
@ReVamp: The art was a littleeeeeee bit off for me and I've never read any WS before. So as somebody completely new to the vast majority of these characters it was a little confusing. I'll definitely give it another issue or two before deciding if I drop it, though.
I really dug the art. But if you have any further confusion you can pm me and I'll try to help... I liked it, like I mentiond above. 
@Son Of Storm: Hmmm, I see. Well this was a bit all over the place,we had 4 or five different places and characters interacting. 
Indeed.
 
Another thing. Am I the only one confused with the pressure point KO of MM?
You shouldn't be. Its the midnighter. He knows your powers, your weaknesses instantly, he can predict outcomes and how to win. Not to mention he considerably stonger than a man, so he can pressure point MM.
#16 Posted by Son Of Storm (11297 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReVamp said:
@Son Of Storm said:
@ReVamp said:
@The Dark Huntress said:
@ReVamp: The art was a littleeeeeee bit off for me and I've never read any WS before. So as somebody completely new to the vast majority of these characters it was a little confusing. I'll definitely give it another issue or two before deciding if I drop it, though.
I really dug the art. But if you have any further confusion you can pm me and I'll try to help... I liked it, like I mentiond above. 
@Son Of Storm: Hmmm, I see. Well this was a bit all over the place,we had 4 or five different places and characters interacting. 
Indeed.
 
Another thing. Am I the only one confused with the pressure point KO of MM?
You shouldn't be. Its the midnighter. He knows your powers, your weaknesses instantly, he can predict outcomes and how to win. Not to mention he considerably stonger than a man, so he can pressure point MM.
I've read The Authority before. But I just never thought he'd be able to do that.
#17 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio
@Son Of Storm: Yeah, well with his shapeshifting it should be extremely hard, if not impossible. But considering the suprise factor + plus he's supposed to know everything (lol), it should be feasible.
#18 Posted by Son Of Storm (11297 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReVamp said:
@Son Of Storm: Yeah, well with his shapeshifting it should be extremely hard, if not impossible. But considering the suprise factor + plus he's supposed to know everything (lol), it should be feasible.
Lol yea.
#19 Posted by longbowhunter (7093 posts) - - Show Bio

These characters are all new to me. Never read much Wildstorm stuff, but so far I really like it.
#20 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio
@longbowhunter said:
These characters are all new to me. Never read much Wildstorm stuff, but so far I really like it.
Yep. By the Way, I was really digging the Tanner guy, hopefully sh** works out.
#21 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jake Fury said:

@ReVamp: @Buckshot: From someone who had never read anything Wildstorm/Authority I enjoyed it. It sort of felt like the Justice League Elite if I had to compare it to something I am remotely familiar with.

My disappointment had nothing to do with being a long time fan, it was really just about the lack of subtlety in the conveyance of ideas through dialogue.

@ReVamp said:

What? As a Wildstorm reader you're not telling me you miss the old Arrogant apollo who just flew straight through peoples guts, or submerged into lava and came out like a bad***? Or are you shaking your head at the... taste in the mouth part? o.O

Yeah its like that. I think its a good series, but not much went on with it, it was too broken down in different parts. I still liked it and everyone knows these first issues are hard to pull off for teams, so I'm cutting some slack. My only problem is that I feel like this isn't Apollo but his shy cousin. I mean I know he's supposed to be new and everything and while I comprehend he may end up like he was before, I'm still not digging him. And I think Midnighter is just very good, I don't think that I will ever be able to get over the fact that he's wearing a chin spike. I mean really?

My comment was more about the taste in your mouth, but since you bring up Apollo, I wouldn't characterize the WSUs Apollo as arrogant. He was a badass when he felt like showing it, but that wasn't how he went around in the majority of his appearances. His role was not that of the arrogant badass. In fact, he's displaying more of that kind of attitude now than before.

I don't really like the idea that these aren't the characters they were before. They aren't supposed to be. Yes, the concepts are things that existed before, but face on the concepts, the personalities/drives/etc are different now because they haven't lived the lives they had before. DC's Apollo isn't supposed to be WS's Apollo. They may borrow liberally from the original, but no one should be surprised when they come out different. That isn't just for you, I see a lot of people making connections to the WSU's characters and it just feels to me like people aren't getting the fact that these guys are different and they're not carry-overs from stories we've seen before. It's the same reason people wonder if they need to read previous Authority stuff to "get" the characters or know what's going on. They're not understanding that the things that happened in the WSU have no bearing on the story taking place now.

@The Dark Huntress said:

@ReVamp: The art was a littleeeeeee bit off for me and I've never read any WS before. So as somebody completely new to the vast majority of these characters it was a little confusing. I'll definitely give it another issue or two before deciding if I drop it, though.

The characters are new. Having read old WS stuff wouldn't help you any more than a quick look at a wikipedia page.

@Son Of Storm said:

I've read The Authority before. But I just never thought he'd be able to do that.

Who he is is not necessarily who he was.

@ReVamp said:

@Son Of Storm: Yeah, well with his shapeshifting it should be extremely hard, if not impossible. But considering the suprise factor + plus he's supposed to know everything (lol), it should be feasible.

Why impossible? Martian Manhunter would still have nerves or something like nerves in order to send and receive signals from his brain/body. If Midnighter could see that, he'd be able to hit nerve bundles.

@ReVamp said:

@longbowhunter said:
These characters are all new to me. Never read much Wildstorm stuff, but so far I really like it.
Yep. By the Way, I was really digging the Tanner guy, hopefully sh** works out.

I think he's going to die before the arc is over.

I think the thing I liked the most from the issue was probably Adam One and the idea that he's been alive forever and has been taking care of Century Babies the whole time. I also liked the Projectionist...until she opened her mouth and became the exposition dispenser. Martian Manhunter's dialogue was clunky I felt, but I liked him nonetheless. I liked Hawksmoor using his powers even if I didn't like him talking about them. I liked the idea that Demon Knights is the sort of ancestor to Stormwatch. I feel like I'm going to like reading both stories and seeing the connections, looking at something that spans time from two different ends. I also liked Midnighter's entrance, I just know that it's going to bring hate.

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#22 Posted by Mercy_ (92698 posts) - - Show Bio
@Buckshot: Ah, thanks for clearing that up :)
Moderator
#23 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio
@Buckshot said:


@ReVamp said:

What? As a Wildstorm reader you're not telling me you miss the old Arrogant apollo who just flew straight through peoples guts, or submerged into lava and came out like a bad***? Or are you shaking your head at the... taste in the mouth part? o.O

Yeah its like that. I think its a good series, but not much went on with it, it was too broken down in different parts. I still liked it and everyone knows these first issues are hard to pull off for teams, so I'm cutting some slack. My only problem is that I feel like this isn't Apollo but his shy cousin. I mean I know he's supposed to be new and everything and while I comprehend he may end up like he was before, I'm still not digging him. And I think Midnighter is just very good, I don't think that I will ever be able to get over the fact that he's wearing a chin spike. I mean really?

1. My comment was more about the taste in your mouth, but since you bring up Apollo, I wouldn't characterize the WSUs Apollo as arrogant. He was a badass when he felt like showing it, but that wasn't how he went around in the majority of his appearances. His role was not that of the arrogant badass. In fact, he's displaying more of that kind of attitude now than before.

I don't really like the idea that these aren't the characters they were before. They aren't supposed to be. Yes, the concepts are things that existed before, but face on the concepts, the personalities/drives/etc are different now because they haven't lived the lives they had before. DC's Apollo isn't supposed to be WS's Apollo. They may borrow liberally from the original, but no one should be surprised when they come out different. That isn't just for you, I see a lot of people making connections to the WSU's characters and it just feels to me like people aren't getting the fact that these guys are different and they're not carry-overs from stories we've seen before. It's the same reason people wonder if they need to read previous Authority stuff to "get" the characters or know what's going on. They're not understanding that the things that happened in the WSU have no bearing on the story taking place now.

@The Dark Huntress said:

@ReVamp: The art was a littleeeeeee bit off for me and I've never read any WS before. So as somebody completely new to the vast majority of these characters it was a little confusing. I'll definitely give it another issue or two before deciding if I drop it, though.

2. The characters are new. Having read old WS stuff wouldn't help you any more than a quick look at a wikipedia page.

@Son Of Storm said:

I've read The Authority before. But I just never thought he'd be able to do that.

3. Who he is is not necessarily who he was.

@ReVamp said:

@Son Of Storm: Yeah, well with his shapeshifting it should be extremely hard, if not impossible. But considering the suprise factor + plus he's supposed to know everything (lol), it should be feasible.

4. Why impossible? Martian Manhunter would still have nerves or something like nerves in order to send and receive signals from his brain/body. If Midnighter could see that, he'd be able to hit nerve bundles.

@ReVamp said:

@longbowhunter said:
These characters are all new to me. Never read much Wildstorm stuff, but so far I really like it.
Yep. By the Way, I was really digging the Tanner guy, hopefully sh** works out.

5. I think he's going to die before the arc is over.

I think the thing I liked the most from the issue was probably Adam One and the idea that he's been alive forever and has been taking care of Century Babies the whole time. I also liked the Projectionist...until she opened her mouth and became the exposition dispenser. Martian Manhunter's dialogue was clunky I felt, but I liked him nonetheless. I liked Hawksmoor using his powers even if I didn't like him talking about them. I liked the idea that Demon Knights is the sort of ancestor to Stormwatch. I feel like I'm going to like reading both stories and seeing the connections, looking at something that spans time from two different ends. I also liked Midnighter's entrance, I just know that it's going to bring hate.

(Numbered all of your posts for greater ease, hope you don't mind)
  1. I know that it is something completely different and I have mentioned this point various times to others, which is why I feel can't help but laugh at the irony of the situation. It doesn't mean that I have to like it. I think that I'm entitled to not like Apollo and prefer the old one as much as I want. (I know this sounds rude, I don't mean to be, just can't really think of a better way to phrase it). Also, maybe the word arrogance wasn't used properly and word like smug would be better. He knew what he was capable of doing, how powerful he was and that when he needed to he could display it. Something that comes to mind is in the begginning of the first series where Midnighter says something along the lines of Been living with him for all these years and he still impresses me, around the world 4 times in 8(or was it 80?) seconds.I disagree about the point of not reading the last WSU material, because regardless of the fact if the stories are continuity anymore, they still help define the characters and from what I can see most of the characters haven't changed that much. Its just Midnighter and Apollo. Then again we haven't seen much of Engineer, or even Hawksmoor, so don't quote me on that.
  2. Answered this above, kinda.
  3. Yeah... I guess its a valid point, but its feasible for pre-Revamp Midnighter to do it, which is why I didn't feel like playing that card, since he might not be changed at all. If he gets a power boot, great, we still don't know it yet.
  4. Well, I said impossible just for the sake of using it as an expression, since this isn't a battle forum I took that liberty =P. More onto the point, we have no idea how his body works, maybe he has small cells in his body that receive a telepathic command? But never mind that, assuming he has "nerves" in the traditional sense, not only is MM's skin as hard as Superman's (yes, he could have changed but I don't think that's the point), he could also use his shapeshifting to move his organs and thus his nerves in an effort to hin the "bundles" that were showing, so this couldn't be done. 
  5. I know, which totally sucks! =( I really like him and I think his character has potential ala Zealot/Nemesis (the latter which I love). I also liked the character of Adam One and his background. The fact that he's been taking care of century babies makes me very interested in how the duo's relationship is going to unfold with stormwatch and that You're in my top 18 babies quip was priceless. I don't know if it was smart dialogue, but I'm used to horrible ones, so I really don't care. I don't really feel you when you're talking about Martian Manhunter's dialogue. The only one I'm remembering off the top of my head was the Justice League/Stormwatch comparison which I liked, I did like Hawksmoor showing his power, it was... I have no words, his power is so unconventional I don't know how to describe watching it in action. I did seem to notice the thing with the Demon Knights, but only subconsciously, so I didn't make the actual association which means I might have to dig deeper into that.
About the Midnighter entrance: Let the haters hate. 
 
Wow. Long. :P
#24 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

Took me 22 minutes to read and answer... I need typing classes lol. 

#25 Posted by Mercy_ (92698 posts) - - Show Bio

I loved Midnighter's entrance.

Moderator
#26 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Dark Huntress said:
I loved Midnighter's entrance.
That's cause you're neutral in terms of characters (I assume). I think we're going to see lots of people complain about MM v Midnighter.
#27 Posted by Son Of Storm (11297 posts) - - Show Bio
@Buckshot said:


@Son Of Storm said:

I've read The Authority before. But I just never thought he'd be able to do that.

Who he is is not necessarily who he was.


True. And perhaps it'll be "explained" to in the next issue.
#28 Posted by aztek_the_lost (28224 posts) - - Show Bio

@Son Of Storm said:

@Buckshot said:

@Son Of Storm said:

I've read The Authority before. But I just never thought he'd be able to do that.

Who he is is not necessarily who he was.

True. And perhaps it'll be "explained" to in the next issue.

I sure hope not, damn the expository dialogue really killed the issue for me.

Moderator
#29 Posted by aztek_the_lost (28224 posts) - - Show Bio

@Buckshot: was it Demon Knights being an ancestor to Stormwatch or just an earlier Stormwatch team? I mean...Stormwatch is supposed to be since the beginning isn't it?

and of course it was said he was trying to plant false memories so maybe there's no connection and Paul was just advertising his other series (I would actually applaud if that were the case...a big reveal that happened way too early that turns out wasn't a reveal at all)

Moderator
#30 Posted by Son Of Storm (11297 posts) - - Show Bio
@aztek_the_lost said:

@Son Of Storm said:

@Buckshot said:

@Son Of Storm said:

I've read The Authority before. But I just never thought he'd be able to do that.

Who he is is not necessarily who he was.

True. And perhaps it'll be "explained" to in the next issue.

I sure hope not, damn the expository dialogue really killed the issue for me.

I want answers! lol.
#31 Posted by aztek_the_lost (28224 posts) - - Show Bio

@Son Of Storm said:

@aztek_the_lost said:

@Son Of Storm said:

@Buckshot said:

@Son Of Storm said:

I've read The Authority before. But I just never thought he'd be able to do that.

Who he is is not necessarily who he was.

True. And perhaps it'll be "explained" to in the next issue.

I sure hope not, damn the expository dialogue really killed the issue for me.

I want answers! lol.

And I want to have something to wonder about so there's a reason to keep reading the series.

Moderator
#32 Posted by iLLituracy (13537 posts) - - Show Bio

Meh.

#33 Posted by Son Of Storm (11297 posts) - - Show Bio
@aztek_the_lost said:

@Son Of Storm said:

@aztek_the_lost said:

@Son Of Storm said:

@Buckshot said:

@Son Of Storm said:

I've read The Authority before. But I just never thought he'd be able to do that.

Who he is is not necessarily who he was.

True. And perhaps it'll be "explained" to in the next issue.

I sure hope not, damn the expository dialogue really killed the issue for me.

I want answers! lol.

And I want to have something to wonder about so there's a reason to keep reading the series.

Well you can have that in issue 3.
#34 Posted by mathematicscore (167 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReVamp:  that was the one thing that bothered me.  Not really feasible.  Plus, his speed would have to be flash level to get the drop on J'onn.  Also, say he has implants that afford him some resistance to telepathy; Why wouldn't the city tell Jack that Midnighter was there?
#35 Posted by Orttodrog (168 posts) - - Show Bio
@Buckshot: i honest to god did not enjoy Storm Watch, i really hope that in the next two issues (im giving each series to issue three before i decide to keep or drop) change my perception of it. but i really didnt enjoy it.
#36 Posted by mathematicscore (167 posts) - - Show Bio

Answer to my own question "because HE'S BATMAN." 
 
Gross.

#37 Posted by Antonio_Blackheart (1542 posts) - - Show Bio

i was sold i enjoy storm watch
#38 Edited by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

  1. I know that it is something completely different and I have mentioned this point various times to others, which is why I feel can't help but laugh at the irony of the situation. It doesn't mean that I have to like it. I think that I'm entitled to not like Apollo and prefer the old one as much as I want. (I know this sounds rude, I don't mean to be, just can't really think of a better way to phrase it). Also, maybe the word arrogance wasn't used properly and word like smug would be better. He knew what he was capable of doing, how powerful he was and that when he needed to he could display it. Something that comes to mind is in the begginning of the first series where Midnighter says something along the lines of Been living with him for all these years and he still impresses me, around the world 4 times in 8(or was it 80?) seconds.I disagree about the point of not reading the last WSU material, because regardless of the fact if the stories are continuity anymore, they still help define the characters and from what I can see most of the characters haven't changed that much. Its just Midnighter and Apollo. Then again we haven't seen much of Engineer, or even Hawksmoor, so don't quote me on that.
  2. Answered this above, kinda.
  3. Yeah... I guess its a valid point, but its feasible for pre-Revamp Midnighter to do it, which is why I didn't feel like playing that card, since he might not be changed at all. If he gets a power boot, great, we still don't know it yet.
  4. Well, I said impossible just for the sake of using it as an expression, since this isn't a battle forum I took that liberty =P. More onto the point, we have no idea how his body works, maybe he has small cells in his body that receive a telepathic command? But never mind that, assuming he has "nerves" in the traditional sense, not only is MM's skin as hard as Superman's (yes, he could have changed but I don't think that's the point), he could also use his shapeshifting to move his organs and thus his nerves in an effort to hin the "bundles" that were showing, so this couldn't be done.
  5. I know, which totally sucks! =( I really like him and I think his character has potential ala Zealot/Nemesis (the latter which I love). I also liked the character of Adam One and his background. The fact that he's been taking care of century babies makes me very interested in how the duo's relationship is going to unfold with stormwatch and that You're in my top 18 babies quip was priceless. I don't know if it was smart dialogue, but I'm used to horrible ones, so I really don't care. I don't really feel you when you're talking about Martian Manhunter's dialogue. The only one I'm remembering off the top of my head was the Justice League/Stormwatch comparison which I liked, I did like Hawksmoor showing his power, it was... I have no words, his power is so unconventional I don't know how to describe watching it in action. I did seem to notice the thing with the Demon Knights, but only subconsciously, so I didn't make the actual association which means I might have to dig deeper into that.
About the Midnighter entrance: Let the haters hate. Wow. Long. :P

1. I'm not saying you can't like the old Apollo, but when you say "I feel like this isn't Apollo, but his shy cousin" it sort assumes that this Apollo should be the WSU's Apollo, which he shouldn't. Like I said, you can like the old one, but I figure if you expect him to show up on the page you're going to continue to be let down. Let the character be what he is and define himself instead of basing your opinion of this Apollo only in contrast to the original. Your choice on the matter entirely of course.

I'm not sure I get your view of Apollo and how it's different than what he's showing now. Like I said before, I feel like this attribute you're trying to describe is more evident here than before. Maybe it was the fault of how writers used Apollo, but he was the soft spoken and held back one. Yes he had power and could show it, but the majority of the time that's not what he's about. This Apollo is far more comfortable throwing his weight around to make a point. Maybe it's a scale thing since this Apollo is brawling in a back alley (though, that is original Apollo's first appearance as well) instead of walking around like a Sun God.

I already commented on the idea that these new characters in a new universe should define themselves instead of being defined by something they no longer are. I still think The Authority should be read, but on it's own merit as an amazing book, not as background on these new characters. Also, I'd say that all the characters have changed (from what little we've seen of them). Quantum is nothing like who she was, Apollo and Midnighter are obviously different, and Hawksmoor has changed greatly too. It's visible in the mission of Stormwatch which Jack states for Apollo. Jack's thing, which he learned from the Changers and Jenny Sparks, was saving the world from itself and changing it for the better, not protecting the world from alien threats and keeping things normal without being seen. His powers may be the same but where he's coming from is totally different. I'm ignoring Engineer because we saw barely anything of her.

3. I was more getting at the idea that who he was before doesn't define who he is now, and if that's the only thing that was being used to say if he could do it or not, it should be thrown out the window. I wasn't making claims about what Midnighter could do before, just saying that he can do it now and at this point that's all that matters. However, in addition to downing MM, Midnighter put Jack down with one shot. WSU Midnighter fought Jack Hawksmoor twice and never had it in him to one-shot the god of cities. I'm not saying he got a power up, that just supports that what he can do now is what he can do now and that's what matters, not what he could do before.

4. We don't have any idea of how he works, but we do know that he feels pain so on some level his mind must be connected to his body in such a way that sensation that affects his body is transferred to his mind. Even if it's nothing like a human body, if he can get sensory data from the world through his skin, there is the potential there for that connection to be abused which would result in some sort of repercussion for MMs mind. Shapeshifting wouldn't help MM if he hadn't moved anything out of the way since he was attacked by surprise. Or, what if he had moved everything and where Midnighter hit isn't normally where they are? I just don't see why it's hard to accept that a physical attack could deliver debilitating damage to a sensitive area. Yes, MM is durable, but I don't see it as any different than someone like KK or Karnak smacking a weakpoint in something he shouldn't be able to damage if he were to hit it anywhere else with human strength. And no one knows, the whole thing could be a moot point if the Martian is just acting like he's down. If it did happen, we don't know the details of how (and we don't have to), but I don't really like the idea of people saying stuff isn't possible right out of the gate when we're still establishing what's possible.

5. The pieces of dialogue that particularly got me were "Projectionist, what do your powers make of this man?" and "I will have to 'slip into something more comfortable' to equal you." It's not that they're wrong, it just that they felt forced to me. The first was just an opening for Projectionist to talk about her powers (and why is it what her powers make of him and not what she makes of him? seems like a silly distinction to draw more attention to the fact that we're about to get a painful introduction to what she does and exactly how) and the second was MM saying some cliche line and knowing it.

I don't me to be contrary on everything, it's just late and contrary is my default setting and I don't have the energy to make a big deal about the things I don't disagree with you on.

@aztek_the_lost said:

@Buckshot: was it Demon Knights being an ancestor to Stormwatch or just an earlier Stormwatch team? I mean...Stormwatch is supposed to be since the beginning isn't it?

and of course it was said he was trying to plant false memories so maybe there's no connection and Paul was just advertising his other series (I would actually applaud if that were the case...a big reveal that happened way too early that turns out wasn't a reveal at all)

Earlier incarnation/Ancestor, I don't really see a difference the way I'm thinking about it. It could be a mislead, but I hope it's not because I find the idea interesting.

@mathematicscore said:

@ReVamp: that was the one thing that bothered me. Not really feasible. Plus, his speed would have to be flash level to get the drop on J'onn. Also, say he has implants that afford him some resistance to telepathy; Why wouldn't the city tell Jack that Midnighter was there?

I don't see why it's not feasible. He wouldn't have to be flash fast. J'onn is rarely written to utilize flash-like reflexes. Not that he isn't fast, but the majority of the time he moves like anyone else so Midnighter hitting him when he's caught off guard is more in line with how he's consistently shown. He could also just be stealthy. It would be neat (and answer why Jack didn't see him coming; though I believe it's possible that the city saw him but he just wasn't recognized as a threat) if there's something about him that hides him from all manner of detection to some degree. Maybe that's what the ridiculous chin spike in his costume does, it prevents him from being seen.

@Orttodrog said:

@Buckshot: i honest to god did not enjoy Storm Watch, i really hope that in the next two issues (im giving each series to issue three before i decide to keep or drop) change my perception of it. but i really didnt enjoy it.

What didn't you like?

Moderator
#39 Posted by The_Tree (7467 posts) - - Show Bio

I enjoyed the issue, although these Wildstorm characters are completely new to me. 
I was mostly disappointed that everyone wasn't already assembled, and there wasn't much action, but that'll probably happen within the next few issues,so no complaints really.

#40 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio
@mathematicscore said:
@ReVamp:  that was the one thing that bothered me.  Not really feasible.  Plus, his speed would have to be flash level to get the drop on J'onn.  Also, say he has implants that afford him some resistance to telepathy; Why wouldn't the city tell Jack that Midnighter was there?
Its definitely feasible and possible and what's more its done. And I love it. 
#41 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio
@Buckshot said:

@ReVamp said:


1. I'm not saying you can't like the old Apollo, but when you say "I feel like this isn't Apollo, but his shy cousin" it sort assumes that this Apollo should be the WSU's Apollo, which he shouldn't. Like I said, you can like the old one, but I figure if you expect him to show up on the page you're going to continue to be let down. Let the character be what he is and define himself instead of basing your opinion of this Apollo only in contrast to the original. Your choice on the matter entirely of course.

I'm not sure I get your view of Apollo and how it's different than what he's showing now. Like I said before, I feel like this attribute you're trying to describe is more evident here than before. Maybe it was the fault of how writers used Apollo, but he was the soft spoken and held back one. Yes he had power and could show it, but the majority of the time that's not what he's about. This Apollo is far more comfortable throwing his weight around to make a point. Maybe it's a scale thing since this Apollo is brawling in a back alley (though, that is original Apollo's first appearance as well) instead of walking around like a Sun God.

2.I already commented on the idea that these new characters in a new universe should define themselves instead of being defined by something they no longer are. I still think The Authority should be read, but on it's own merit as an amazing book, not as background on these new characters. Also, I'd say that all the characters have changed (from what little we've seen of them). Quantum is nothing like who she was, Apollo and Midnighter are obviously different, and Hawksmoor has changed greatly too. It's visible in the mission of Stormwatch which Jack states for Apollo. Jack's thing, which he learned from the Changers and Jenny Sparks, was saving the world from itself and changing it for the better, not protecting the world from alien threats and keeping things normal without being seen. His powers may be the same but where he's coming from is totally different. I'm ignoring Engineer because we saw barely anything of her.

3. I was more getting at the idea that who he was before doesn't define who he is now, and if that's the only thing that was being used to say if he could do it or not, it should be thrown out the window. I wasn't making claims about what Midnighter could do before, just saying that he can do it now and at this point that's all that matters. However, in addition to downing MM, Midnighter put Jack down with one shot. WSU Midnighter fought Jack Hawksmoor twice and never had it in him to one-shot the god of cities. I'm not saying he got a power up, that just supports that what he can do now is what he can do now and that's what matters, not what he could do before.

4. We don't have any idea of how he works, but we do know that he feels pain so on some level his mind must be connected to his body in such a way that sensation that affects his body is transferred to his mind. Even if it's nothing like a human body, if he can get sensory data from the world through his skin, there is the potential there for that connection to be abused which would result in some sort of repercussion for MMs mind. Shapeshifting wouldn't help MM if he hadn't moved anything out of the way since he was attacked by surprise. Or, what if he had moved everything and where Midnighter hit isn't normally where they are? I just don't see why it's hard to accept that a physical attack could deliver debilitating damage to a sensitive area. Yes, MM is durable, but I don't see it as any different than someone like KK or Karnak smacking a weakpoint in something he shouldn't be able to damage if he were to hit it anywhere else with human strength. And no one knows, the whole thing could be a moot point if the Martian is just acting like he's down. If it did happen, we don't know the details of how (and we don't have to), but I don't really like the idea of people saying stuff isn't possible right out of the gate when we're still establishing what's possible.

5. The pieces of dialogue that particularly got me were "Projectionist, what do your powers make of this man?" and "I will have to 'slip into something more comfortable' to equal you." It's not that they're wrong, it just that they felt forced to me. The first was just an opening for Projectionist to talk about her powers (and why is it what her powers make of him and not what she makes of him? seems like a silly distinction to draw more attention to the fact that we're about to get a painful introduction to what she does and exactly how) and the second was MM saying some cliche line and knowing it.

I don't me to be contrary on everything, it's just late and contrary is my default setting and I don't have the energy to make a big deal about the things I don't disagree with you on.


  1.  I didn't mean that by being his shy cousin he should be like the Apollo, I'm just saying I wasn't digging the new Apollo for that reason. I was already not expecting great things from the duo since the first time I saw the cover and realized that they were being altered completely. I know that it isn't a bad thing, I just saw that from the way that they were being redesigned wasn't appealing to me. That isn't to say that all reimaginations aren't my cup of tea, if there's a team book I like more than what Wildstorm has to offer (not counting the JL because that book always deserves some merit even if it isn't always interesting), it would have to be Teen Titans. I'm not sure if you're familiar with them, but DC is completely deleting all of the history that they have together and will have them join for the first time, which I can absolutely not wait for. I know that it isn't the same thing because I read one and didn't read the other, but I would've said the same thing before reading Stormwatch and its not like I didn't like Stormwatch. I love the WSU and its characters, which is why I always have great hope in seeing how these characters will be used. 
  2. Again, I agree that they're different. I don't know if Hawksmoor is completely different though, just because he's saving the world from something external. It could just be something that was overseen by the Author, no? I'm also really digging Adam-One/Jenny Quantum, from the little we've seen.
  3. Yeah I understood. What I was saying is that because if actually is feasible for Midnighter to do it, (taking into account this shouldn't be a reboot, simply a Revamp of characters) I didn't feel like I should get ahead of myself and use that as an explanation. I understand your point and you probably handled the situation better than I did.
  4. I think you're getting the wrong idea. I was the first one to say that Midnighter should be able to down MM and I love the idea. I didn't say it was impossible. What I did say, was the fact that it might be hard to accept for some people who have some experience with Martian Manhunter but little experience with Midnighter because they don't understand the potential of the character, since in the DCU the fights were generally abou stats, which can't be said for the WSU. I was just sympathizing with these people, whilst trying to explain the character.
  5. I do have to agree about those two lines of dialogue and they are quite bad, but they didn't seem to affect me all that much. I guess being a Manga reader has definitely deadened my ability to be uncomfortable with clicheness, since any manga reader knows they're going to get a bunch of that stuff if they take to reading manga, specifically Shonen.
Its fine, I love people who are contrary and can provide valid points to their argument. I do that all the time too and I really don't mind disagreement, I actually quite like it, except when someone doesn't have any valid reasons and just disagrees because of Fangirlism/Fanboyism.


#42 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio
@Adnan said:
I've just come back from holiday (missing about 70% of Flashpoint in the process...), haven't picked up any new comics yet. The reviews, overall, seem good (Batwing apparantly being the surprise hit of the currently released bunch).  Haven't read Stormwatch (or any of the DCnU stuff yet), how big of a role does MM play in it?
He a main character in the team. I'm not sure exactly how to answer your question though.
#43 Posted by Adnan (1037 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReVamp: I suppose it's too early to tell. Thanks for replying anyway.
#44 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio
@Adnan said:
@ReVamp: I suppose it's too early to tell. Thanks for replying anyway.
You're more than welcome. If you want to add anything else, feel free to PM me :D
#45 Posted by Primmaster64 (21138 posts) - - Show Bio

What did it had to do with Supes?

#46 Posted by TheGoldenOne (38849 posts) - - Show Bio
@iLLituracy said:
Meh.
#47 Posted by Orttodrog (168 posts) - - Show Bio
@Buckshot: (DC here bucko) And i honestly did not enjoy the overall story of it to be infact i hated Appolo and Mid, two characters i absolutely frigging love. I hate what they have done to MM hes more of a punk smartass now and that irritates me. Overall i disliked the entire book
#48 Posted by mathematicscore (167 posts) - - Show Bio
@Primmaster64:  I may have missed something, but if you're asking what is Superman's role in Stormwatch #1, there is an "artist's rendering"  of Apollo hypothetically clobbering the Man of Steel. 
 
@Orttodrog:  While obviously there is not accounting for taste, I didn't feel like Martian Manhunter was a huge departure from how he has been portrayed in the past.  He's often been shown to have a dry, sardonic wit to go with his cerebral and dignified side.
#49 Posted by Leliel (1452 posts) - - Show Bio

My biggest problem is that there so many already existing characters for both the Authority and Stormwatch that would deeply wished that they would use old ones and not make new ones. I'm glad their keeping the Century Baby idea but is it not going to clash with the meta-humans of DCU?

#50 Posted by AskaniSon295 (427 posts) - - Show Bio

It's the best New Comic Coming out today I'm really intrigued with the new characters Adam1,Projectionist,HarryTanner and I'm interested how they joined Stormwatch and I am excited to see how this team will fit in this Universe It does seem that they will have eventual reasons to interact with Grifter,Voodoo possibly the GLCorps I like more interesting storylines than drawn out fight sequences.

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