and the writer would have felt WW's absence too if WW wasn't in JL cartoon series.

I know WW has fans, but she wouldn't be as popular as she is right now if WW was only appearing on her own comics. so again, thanks to her JLA team as well.

@Vance Astro said:

@jhazzroucher said:

and the writer would have felt WW's absence too if WW wasn't in JL cartoon series.

I know WW has fans, but she wouldn't be as popular as she is right now if WW was only appearing on her own comics. so again, thanks to her JLA team as well.

You lost.

No i didn't.

No i didn't.

@Vance Astro said:

@jhazzroucher said:

No i didn't.

Yea, you did. Your argument was refuted already. You're now arguing something different.

again, her apppearances to the JL comics and cartooon series has boosted her popularity

again, her apppearances to the JL comics and cartooon series has boosted her popularity

@Vance Astro said:

@jhazzroucher said:

again, her apppearances to the JL comics and cartooon series has boosted her popularity

Nobody was arguing that.

yes you did.

yes you did.

I don't think Storm has the qualification to be 'Marvel's Wonder Women.' I mean you could say she was close in the 90s but still. Matter fact NO female in Marvel is on the level of Wonder Women, DC actually cares a lot for their female characters unlike Marvel. Some people could say Carol is Marvel's Wonder Woman, but they just say that because both WW and Carol are powerhouses and both are the leading lady on their teams.

@Vance Astro said:

@jhazzroucher said:

yes you did.

No, I didn't. You said that Wonder Woman wouldn't be popular without the JLA but in fact she was. How her popularity lasted this long is irrelevant to the argument.

i said she wouldn't be as popular as she is right now without her membership with the JL

i said she wouldn't be as popular as she is right now without her membership with the JL

so saying Storm wouldn't be popular if she wasn't part of the x-men is also saying WW wouldn't be popular if she wasn't part of JLA.

@Vance Astro said:

@jhazzroucher said:

i said she wouldn't be as popular as she is right now without her membership with the JL

Don't lie.

@jhazzroucher said:

so saying Storm wouldn't be popular if she wasn't part of the x-men is also saying WW wouldn't be popular if she wasn't part of JLA.

I was just using the other poster's logic

I was just using the other poster's logic

@Vance Astro said:

@jhazzroucher said:

I was just using the other poster's logic

However, the other poster was right, you weren't.

na-a

na-a

I give DC props for being more out front with their female characters.

I give DC props for being more out front with their female characters.

@Vance Astro said:

@jhazzroucher said:

na-a

Classic jhazz argument: impervious to proof.

cos i am not wrong at all

@jhazzroucher said:

@drgnx said:

I've tried to understand where all this is coming from, Storm was popular back in the 90's, a lot places don't have her ranked very high for 2000s. Even the X-men movies, she took mid-stage vs Jean and Rogue.

If I had to:

Jean Grey -> Wonder Woman

Jean does not seem as popular these days either, not sure Marvel has an equivalent, at best; Storm -> Black Canary

Ms Marvel is cool but seems like more of an upstart to me, for the longest time I only knew that 80s-90s rogue had her powers.

hello, even the writer of the article even felt the absence of WW in films.

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

context...CONTEXT!!!!!

cos i am not wrong at all

I think you can argue either way. Storm isn't on the level of Wonder Woman, clearly, she hasn't been around as long as Wonder Woman. However, Storm is the closest thing that Marvel has to a character that represents what WW represents for DC. WW is an icon as well as Storm, but I must say so glad to see that an article was written to clearly explain why the OP statement is true.

but I must say so glad to see that an article was written to clearly explain why the OP statement is true.

@Vance Astro said:

@butterflykyss said:

but I must say so glad to see that an article was written to clearly explain why the OP statement is true.

The OP statement\title of this thread is subjective.

Clearly its subjective, but Brain White took a fairly objective approach to see which character at Marvel has the most exposure to the general population outside of the comic realm.

His calculation put Storm at number one but had WW ahead of everyone and ahead by Storm with a 100+ points. So that is pretty consistent, most people would say WW is generally known more than WW to the general population, and based on the numbers Storm would follow in a distant second

Omg, I actually read the article, he pulled the percentages out of his @!!! He just decided what they should be, based on his opinions.

A proper analysis would have included a breakdown of how DC allocates their budget, by product lines (like movies and shows) then assign that product line a percentage.

Next, for each product line, how much of that overall budget goes to each character in that product line, then assign points based on percentage (this would include every character marvel owns - no, not fun at all).

He also never factored in stuff like quantity of items sold/viewed, though I'm not sure if that would add to his angle, dispite the fact he did base some of his numbers on observing others habits. (20% to video games because his family plays it more than they read comics??? - also the area were Storm has more appearances than other characters). Lol!!!

This was set up so the author could play around with his numbers to get the desired results by assigning percentages to product lines in a manner that was favourable to Storm.

@butterflykyss said:

@Vance Astro said:

@butterflykyss said:

but I must say so glad to see that an article was written to clearly explain why the OP statement is true.

The OP statement\title of this thread is subjective.

Clearly its subjective, but Brain White took a fairly objective approach to see which character at Marvel has the most exposure to the general population outside of the comic realm.

His calculation put Storm at number one but had WW ahead of everyone and ahead by Storm with a 100+ points. So that is pretty consistent, most people would say WW is generally known more than WW to the general population, and based on the numbers Storm would follow in a distant second

Not really distant.

@drgnx said:

Omg, I actually read the article, he pulled the percentages out of his @!!! He just decided what they should be, based on his opinions. A proper analysis would have included a breakdown of how DC allocates their budget, by product lines (like movies and shows) then assign that product line a percentage. Next, for each product line, how much of that overall budget goes to each character in that product line, then assign points based on percentage (this would include every character marvel owns - no, not fun at all). He also never factored in stuff like quantity of items sold/viewed, though I'm not sure if that would add to his angle, dispite the fact he did base some of his numbers on observing others habits. (20% to video games because his family plays it more than they read comics??? - also the area were Storm has more appearances than other characters). Lol!!! This was set up so the author could play around with his numbers to get the desired results by assigning percentages to product lines in a manner that was favourable to Storm.

as well as appearances, merchandises, commercials, etc. Storm would still come out second or even tops it.

@jhazzroucher said:

@drgnx said:

Omg, I actually read the article, he pulled the percentages out of his @!!! He just decided what they should be, based on his opinions. A proper analysis would have included a breakdown of how DC allocates their budget, by product lines (like movies and shows) then assign that product line a percentage. Next, for each product line, how much of that overall budget goes to each character in that product line, then assign points based on percentage (this would include every character marvel owns - no, not fun at all). He also never factored in stuff like quantity of items sold/viewed, though I'm not sure if that would add to his angle, dispite the fact he did base some of his numbers on observing others habits. (20% to video games because his family plays it more than they read comics??? - also the area were Storm has more appearances than other characters). Lol!!! This was set up so the author could play around with his numbers to get the desired results by assigning percentages to product lines in a manner that was favourable to Storm.

as well as appearances, merchandises, commercials, etc. Storm would still come out second or even tops it.

I have not been following marvel in recent years until the "now" launch but I've always thought Jean was the top female, but she seems to have faded in recent years. Ms Marvel does not seem to be as popular as Marvel might have hoped. And I have no clue what is up with Rogue these days. Don't see the hulks taking any of the mentioned characters, but Sue was historically a top 10 contender so it is possible Storm could be in the top 2 once everything is tallied properly, I just think the articles author's methods highly dubious.

Not really distant.

Clearly its subjective, but Brain White took a fairly objective approach to see which character at Marvel has the most exposure to the general population outside of the comic realm.

His calculation put Storm at number one but had WW ahead of everyone and ahead by Storm with a 100+ points. So that is pretty consistent, most people would say WW is generally known more than WW to the general population, and based on the numbers Storm would follow in a distant second

@Vance Astro said:

@butterflykyss said:

Clearly its subjective, but Brain White took a fairly objective approach to see which character at Marvel has the most exposure to the general population outside of the comic realm.

His calculation put Storm at number one but had WW ahead of everyone and ahead by Storm with a 100+ points. So that is pretty consistent, most people would say WW is generally known more than WW to the general population, and based on the numbers Storm would follow in a distant second

You said that's the article explains why the OP statement is true when in fact it's not a statement that can be validated. That's why I responded.

This is true. A few things I have to note, is that Storm was obviously not one of marvels first female heroes, but nothing to indicate she was ever the most popular female at marvel (at any time), though I can imagine she has maintained a more stable level than some of her counterparts.

It is deceptive because some characters might have been more popular than Storm at certain times but less popular at other times, where as WW has always been the most popular female at DC. Characters like Jean and Rogue definitely rivaled her, though I was say Jean Surpassed her, but has since faded while the White Witch and Ms Marvel are not getting a lot of attention, granted Ms Marvel seems to be wasted.

There are plenty of ways to present numbers to ensure you get the results you want. A year by year breakdown could show a completely different story. Based on what the author wrote a better title would be "Storm might be the closest thing Marvel as to a Wonder Women", that is if you like you characters living in Wonder Women's shadow.

@drgnx said:

@jhazzroucher said:

@drgnx said:

Omg, I actually read the article, he pulled the percentages out of his @!!! He just decided what they should be, based on his opinions. A proper analysis would have included a breakdown of how DC allocates their budget, by product lines (like movies and shows) then assign that product line a percentage. Next, for each product line, how much of that overall budget goes to each character in that product line, then assign points based on percentage (this would include every character marvel owns - no, not fun at all). He also never factored in stuff like quantity of items sold/viewed, though I'm not sure if that would add to his angle, dispite the fact he did base some of his numbers on observing others habits. (20% to video games because his family plays it more than they read comics??? - also the area were Storm has more appearances than other characters). Lol!!! This was set up so the author could play around with his numbers to get the desired results by assigning percentages to product lines in a manner that was favourable to Storm.

as well as appearances, merchandises, commercials, etc. Storm would still come out second or even tops it.

I have not been following marvel in recent years until the "now" launch but I've always thought Jean was the top female, but she seems to have faded in recent years. Ms Marvel does not seem to be as popular as Marvel might have hoped. And I have no clue what is up with Rogue these days. Don't see the hulks taking any of the mentioned characters, but Sue was historically a top 10 contender so it is possible Storm could be in the top 2 once everything is tallied properly, I just think the articles author's methods highly dubious.

so in Marvel, who do you think should be on top

@drgnx said:

@Vance Astro said:

@butterflykyss said:

Clearly its subjective, but Brain White took a fairly objective approach to see which character at Marvel has the most exposure to the general population outside of the comic realm.

His calculation put Storm at number one but had WW ahead of everyone and ahead by Storm with a 100+ points. So that is pretty consistent, most people would say WW is generally known more than WW to the general population, and based on the numbers Storm would follow in a distant second

You said that's the article explains why the OP statement is true when in fact it's not a statement that can be validated. That's why I responded.

This is true. A few things I have to note, is that Storm was obviously not one of marvels first female heroes, but nothing to indicate she was ever the most popular female at marvel (at any time), though I can imagine she has maintained a more stable level than some of her counterparts.

It is deceptive because some characters might have been more popular than Storm at certain times but less popular at other times, where as WW has always been the most popular female at DC. Characters like Jean and Rogue definitely rivaled her, though I was say Jean Surpassed her, but has since faded while the White Witch and Ms Marvel are not getting a lot of attention, granted Ms Marvel seems to be wasted.

There are plenty of ways to present numbers to ensure you get the results you want. A year by year breakdown could show a completely different story. Based on what the author wrote a better title would be "Storm might be the closest thing Marvel as to a Wonder Women", that is if you like you characters living in Wonder Women's shadow.

right now, Batgirl is, if we're only talking about female ongoing comics.

@drgnx said:

@Vance Astro said:

@butterflykyss said:

Clearly its subjective, but Brain White took a fairly objective approach to see which character at Marvel has the most exposure to the general population outside of the comic realm.

His calculation put Storm at number one but had WW ahead of everyone and ahead by Storm with a 100+ points. So that is pretty consistent, most people would say WW is generally known more than WW to the general population, and based on the numbers Storm would follow in a distant second

You said that's the article explains why the OP statement is true when in fact it's not a statement that can be validated. That's why I responded.

This is true. A few things I have to note, is that Storm was obviously not one of marvels first female heroes, but nothing to indicate she was ever the most popular female at marvel (at any time), though I can imagine she has maintained a more stable level than some of her counterparts.

It is deceptive because some characters might have been more popular than Storm at certain times but less popular at other times, where as WW has always been the most popular female at DC. Characters like Jean and Rogue definitely rivaled her, though I was say Jean Surpassed her, but has since faded while the White Witch and Ms Marvel are not getting a lot of attention, granted Ms Marvel seems to be wasted.

There are plenty of ways to present numbers to ensure you get the results you want. A year by year breakdown could show a completely different story. Based on what the author wrote a better title would be "Storm might be the closest thing Marvel as to a Wonder Women", that is if you like you characters living in Wonder Women's shadow.

This is where I think the disconnect is in regards to what the author was trying to demonstrate with the article and what you are interpreting it as being. The author stated that his measurement "is by no means a foolproof ... but I think it's fairly correct in measuring just how recognizable all of these characters are to the general population." This article looks at the complete history of each character to determine how recognizable the character is; there is no mention of who is more popular. That said, Wonder Woman is not nearly as popular today as she was back when her popular tv series was airing; however, this does not discount her popularity and her impact as a whole today to popular culture. The same is true for Storm. Also there is indication that she was the most popular female character at Marvel (at least during the 90s) when she won against Wonder Woman in a crossover DC/Marvel story that was fan voted. That is a pretty good indication of her popularity at least during that time.

Storm has always been a fan favorite of viewers of the Xmen. As the author of the article talks to, Storm transcends stereotypes, being strong-willed, independent and immensely powerful. Storm was able to do what Jean wasn't, and that was fight her craving for ultimate power (explained in Rogue-Storm arc). And nothing against Rogue, but Storm's will-power, her strength, and ability to lead has always outshone Rogue's. All in all, as you feel Ms. Marvel has been wasted, the truth is Storm has been wasted as they haven't given one of their most recognizable female characters an on-going. Ms. Marvel is a lot less recognizable than Storm and she has been given 3 on-goings all of which have been flops. They are not wasting her, they are shoving her down our throats and only 10000 or so readers are eating the crow.

Of course there are many ways numbers can be twisted to show or prove many different theories. However, what gain does this author have in doing this; in demonstrating that Storm was number 1?She is not living in her shadow and nothing in Storm's history would suggest that. Furthermore, there is nothing shameful in Storm not being as recognizable as Wonder Woman. 1.) Wonder Woman has been around a lot longer than her so by that alone it is obvious she would be more recognizable, 2.) Storm is also a minority (though brown and black people are a majority in the world, but thats another debate) and female so being as recognizable and the icon that she is in a niche audience that is heavily dominated by white males is noteworthy in itself.

@butterflykyss said:

@drgnx said:

@Vance Astro said:

@butterflykyss said:

Clearly its subjective, but Brain White took a fairly objective approach to see which character at Marvel has the most exposure to the general population outside of the comic realm.

His calculation put Storm at number one but had WW ahead of everyone and ahead by Storm with a 100+ points. So that is pretty consistent, most people would say WW is generally known more than WW to the general population, and based on the numbers Storm would follow in a distant second

You said that's the article explains why the OP statement is true when in fact it's not a statement that can be validated. That's why I responded.

This is true. A few things I have to note, is that Storm was obviously not one of marvels first female heroes, but nothing to indicate she was ever the most popular female at marvel (at any time), though I can imagine she has maintained a more stable level than some of her counterparts.

It is deceptive because some characters might have been more popular than Storm at certain times but less popular at other times, where as WW has always been the most popular female at DC. Characters like Jean and Rogue definitely rivaled her, though I was say Jean Surpassed her, but has since faded while the White Witch and Ms Marvel are not getting a lot of attention, granted Ms Marvel seems to be wasted.

There are plenty of ways to present numbers to ensure you get the results you want. A year by year breakdown could show a completely different story. Based on what the author wrote a better title would be "Storm might be the closest thing Marvel as to a Wonder Women", that is if you like you characters living in Wonder Women's shadow.

This is where I think the disconnect is in regards to what the author was trying to demonstrate with the article and what you are interpreting it as being. The author stated that his measurement "is by no means a foolproof ... but I think it's fairly correct in measuring just how recognizable all of these characters are to the general population."
This article looks at the complete history of each character to determine how recognizable the character is; there is no mention of who is more popular.

I think it is the emphasis on that article to prove the OP's point or make a general comparison to Wonder Women that is causing disagreement. If the OP just wanted to say Storm is the most popular marvel female, I might still point out the dubious calculations, but wouldn't be as concerned, by putting a general WW reference it leaves a lot to interpretation.

That said, Wonder Woman is not nearly as popular today as she was back when her popular tv series was airing; however, this does not discount her popularity and her impact as a whole today to popular culture. The same is true for Storm.

Yes, WW is the lowest selling of all the (current) original JLA members with Solos, and will probably sink if she does not get some kind of franchise rolling in TV or movies. I have no issues looking at the really of the situations. When you say impact, Wonder Women's impact would be for Women while Storm might be minorities and/or females, but I'm guessing more towards the combination which would represent a smaller group; not in terms of potential fans, but as you say, cultural impact.

Also there is indication that she was the most popular female character at Marvel (at least during the 90s) when she won against Wonder Woman in a crossover DC/Marvel story that was fan voted. That is a pretty good indication of her popularity at least during that time.

Don't confuse popularity with fans willing to test the limits. A clear example was the killing of Jason Todd; fans voted for it just to see if DC would actually do it. Since it is highly unlikely Storm was ever more popular than wonder Woman your example does not really prove she was more popular than any other Marvel Female. It could have been possible that fans would have voted for anyone to beat Wonder Women if there was a swap.

You wasted a lot of explanation based on misinterpretation ...

Storm has always been a fan favorite of viewers of the Xmen. As the author of the article talks to, Storm transcends stereotypes, being strong-willed, independent and immensely powerful. Storm was able to do what Jean wasn't, and that was fight her craving for ultimate power (explained in Rogue-Storm arc). And nothing against Rogue, but Storm's will-power, her strength, and ability to lead has always outshone Rogue's. All in all, as you feel Ms. Marvel has been wasted, the truth is Storm has been wasted as they haven't given one of their most recognizable female characters an on-going. Ms. Marvel is a lot less recognizable than Storm and she has been given 3 on-goings all of which have been flops. They are not wasting her, they are shoving her down our throats and only 10000 or so readers are eating the crow.

When I say "wasted" I mean Marvel's efforts on her, they are trying to push her and it seems like she is not going anywhere.

Of course there are many ways numbers can be twisted to show or prove many different theories. However, what gain does this author have in doing this; in demonstrating that Storm was number 1?

What do fans ever really gain by demonstrating their favorite is number one? Even if we assume he was not motivated, doesn't really change the questionably of his ratings, and his pointing that out himself, does not alleviate that.

She is not living in her shadow and nothing in Storm's history would suggest that. Furthermore, there is nothing shameful in Storm not being as recognizable as Wonder Woman.

Then why create this topic? Why Reference WW at all?

1.) Wonder Woman has been around a lot longer than her so by that alone it is obvious she would be more recognizable, 2.) Storm is also a minority (though brown and black people are a majority in the world, but thats another debate) and female so being as recognizable and the icon that she is in a niche audience that is heavily dominated by white males is noteworthy in itself.

I really don't see what this had to do with my point, which was basically why this topic needed to even be created and specifically reference wonder woman. It could have for instance been "Marvels top female" or something, putting the Wonder Women reference is an indicator of setting her as a standard to measure towards.

butterflykyss said:

The highlight of her career, and it is never even cannon .... /sigh

I'm also assuming you think this would bother me, I'm not a fanboy, so it doesn't ... I lol'ed with everyone else and moved on...

This is where I think the disconnect is in regards to what the author was trying to demonstrate with the article and what you are interpreting it as being. The author stated that his measurement " is by no means a foolproof ... but I think it's fairly correct in measuring just how recognizable all of these characters are to the general population." This article looks at the complete history of each character to determine how recognizable the character is; there is no mention of who is more popular.

Also there is indication that she was the most popular female character at Marvel (at least during the 90s) when she won against Wonder Woman in a crossover DC/Marvel story that was fan voted. That is a pretty good indication of her popularity at least during that time.

Ms. Marvel is a lot less recognizable than Storm and she has been given 3 on-goings all of which have been flops. They are not wasting her, they are shoving her down our throats and only 10000 or so readers are eating the crow.

This is just going around in circles. It is best to just agree to disagree and move on in my opinion.

right now, Batgirl is, if we're only talking about female ongoing comics.

@Vance Astro said:

@jhazzroucher said:

right now, Batgirl is, if we're only talking about female ongoing comics.

Batgirl has NEVER been in Wonder Woman's shadow. Batman's? Maybe...Wonder Woman's? Where did you get that from?

I think they misunderstood my comment ...

@jhazzroucher said:

@drgnx said:

@jhazzroucher said:

@drgnx said:

Omg, I actually read the article, he pulled the percentages out of his @!!! He just decided what they should be, based on his opinions. A proper analysis would have included a breakdown of how DC allocates their budget, by product lines (like movies and shows) then assign that product line a percentage. Next, for each product line, how much of that overall budget goes to each character in that product line, then assign points based on percentage (this would include every character marvel owns - no, not fun at all). He also never factored in stuff like quantity of items sold/viewed, though I'm not sure if that would add to his angle, dispite the fact he did base some of his numbers on observing others habits. (20% to video games because his family plays it more than they read comics??? - also the area were Storm has more appearances than other characters). Lol!!! This was set up so the author could play around with his numbers to get the desired results by assigning percentages to product lines in a manner that was favourable to Storm.

as well as appearances, merchandises, commercials, etc. Storm would still come out second or even tops it.

I have not been following marvel in recent years until the "now" launch but I've always thought Jean was the top female, but she seems to have faded in recent years. Ms Marvel does not seem to be as popular as Marvel might have hoped. And I have no clue what is up with Rogue these days. Don't see the hulks taking any of the mentioned characters, but Sue was historically a top 10 contender so it is possible Storm could be in the top 2 once everything is tallied properly, I just think the articles author's methods highly dubious.

so in Marvel, who do you think should be on top

It is not a matter of who I think should be at the top, I really don't care who is number one. It won't dictate if I like a character or not, nor do I have any reason to not want Storm to be. The Author could very well be right (if he had used a more detailed/tedious method), but the way he did his calculations is very faulty, with a few tweaks of his method, Jean could have beaten her. If we added toys purchased or t-shirts, it could be someone else altogether.

It could just be me, but I would rather a reliable source telling me something I don't like, than an unreliable one telling me something I do.

@Vance Astro said:

@jhazzroucher said:

right now, Batgirl is, if we're only talking about female ongoing comics.

Batgirl has NEVER been in Wonder Woman's shadow. Batman's? Maybe...Wonder Woman's? Where did you get that from?

well Batgirl's ongoing is selling better than WW's

@drgnx said:

@jhazzroucher said:

@drgnx said:

@jhazzroucher said:

@drgnx said:

Omg, I actually read the article, he pulled the percentages out of his @!!! He just decided what they should be, based on his opinions. A proper analysis would have included a breakdown of how DC allocates their budget, by product lines (like movies and shows) then assign that product line a percentage. Next, for each product line, how much of that overall budget goes to each character in that product line, then assign points based on percentage (this would include every character marvel owns - no, not fun at all). He also never factored in stuff like quantity of items sold/viewed, though I'm not sure if that would add to his angle, dispite the fact he did base some of his numbers on observing others habits. (20% to video games because his family plays it more than they read comics??? - also the area were Storm has more appearances than other characters). Lol!!! This was set up so the author could play around with his numbers to get the desired results by assigning percentages to product lines in a manner that was favourable to Storm.

as well as appearances, merchandises, commercials, etc. Storm would still come out second or even tops it.

I have not been following marvel in recent years until the "now" launch but I've always thought Jean was the top female, but she seems to have faded in recent years. Ms Marvel does not seem to be as popular as Marvel might have hoped. And I have no clue what is up with Rogue these days. Don't see the hulks taking any of the mentioned characters, but Sue was historically a top 10 contender so it is possible Storm could be in the top 2 once everything is tallied properly, I just think the articles author's methods highly dubious.

so in Marvel, who do you think should be on top

It is not a matter of who I think should be at the top, I really don't care who is number one. It won't dictate if I like a character or not, nor do I have any reason to not want Storm to be. The Author could very well be right (if he had used a more detailed/tedious method), but the way he did his calculations is very faulty, with a few tweaks of his method, Jean could have beaten her. If we added toys purchased or t-shirts, it could be someone else altogether.

It could just be me, but I would rather a reliable source telling me something I don't like, than an unreliable one telling me something I do.

I want you to make you own calculations. I want to know because you don't think Storm would come on top in Marvel.

@jhazzroucher said:

@Vance Astro said:

@jhazzroucher said:

right now, Batgirl is, if we're only talking about female ongoing comics.

Batgirl has NEVER been in Wonder Woman's shadow. Batman's? Maybe...Wonder Woman's? Where did you get that from?

well Batgirl's ongoing is selling better than WW's

That's only to do it being heavily involved with Death of the Family.

@Walzo said:

@jhazzroucher said:

@Vance Astro said:

@jhazzroucher said:

right now, Batgirl is, if we're only talking about female ongoing comics.

Batgirl has NEVER been in Wonder Woman's shadow. Batman's? Maybe...Wonder Woman's? Where did you get that from?

well Batgirl's ongoing is selling better than WW's

That's only to do it being heavily involved with Death of the Family.

it'sa fact. batgirl's selling better./

@jhazzroucher said:

@drgnx said:

@jhazzroucher said:

@drgnx said:

@jhazzroucher said:

@drgnx said:

Omg, I actually read the article, he pulled the percentages out of his @!!! He just decided what they should be, based on his opinions. A proper analysis would have included a breakdown of how DC allocates their budget, by product lines (like movies and shows) then assign that product line a percentage. Next, for each product line, how much of that overall budget goes to each character in that product line, then assign points based on percentage (this would include every character marvel owns - no, not fun at all). He also never factored in stuff like quantity of items sold/viewed, though I'm not sure if that would add to his angle, dispite the fact he did base some of his numbers on observing others habits. (20% to video games because his family plays it more than they read comics??? - also the area were Storm has more appearances than other characters). Lol!!! This was set up so the author could play around with his numbers to get the desired results by assigning percentages to product lines in a manner that was favourable to Storm.

as well as appearances, merchandises, commercials, etc. Storm would still come out second or even tops it.

I have not been following marvel in recent years until the "now" launch but I've always thought Jean was the top female, but she seems to have faded in recent years. Ms Marvel does not seem to be as popular as Marvel might have hoped. And I have no clue what is up with Rogue these days. Don't see the hulks taking any of the mentioned characters, but Sue was historically a top 10 contender so it is possible Storm could be in the top 2 once everything is tallied properly, I just think the articles author's methods highly dubious.

so in Marvel, who do you think should be on top

It is not a matter of who I think should be at the top, I really don't care who is number one. It won't dictate if I like a character or not, nor do I have any reason to not want Storm to be. The Author could very well be right (if he had used a more detailed/tedious method), but the way he did his calculations is very faulty, with a few tweaks of his method, Jean could have beaten her. If we added toys purchased or t-shirts, it could be someone else altogether.

It could just be me, but I would rather a reliable source telling me something I don't like, than an unreliable one telling me something I do.

I want you to make you own calculations. I want to know because you don't think Storm would come on top in Marvel.

I'm not surprised this is your rebuttal. So let me guess, If I don't spend hours - days of my time providing alternative numbers, it makes his calculations so much more valid right? So I guess anyone can produce half-bakedcalculations now, and if anyone wants to object they need to provide detailed professional calculations? It is sufficient that I have explained why his calculations are not reliable.

It is a distasteful attempt to ignore the fact his calculations are very questionable, not to mention clearly subjective. I've already laid out the basic groundwork to even guess who would be exposed more, which would take quite a few hours of effort minimum, feel free to do it yourself.

A proper analysis would have included a breakdown of how DC allocates their budget, by product lines (like movies and shows) then assign that product line a percentage.

Next, for each product line, how much of that overall budget goes to each character in that product line, then assign points based on percentage (this would include every character marvel owns - no, not fun at all).

Edit: you would also need to do this by year, for every year

This is for Marvels investment:

Raw Exposure would be units sold, which would include commercials and ads, etc

Also, I wouldn't do this work for free, you would have to have paid me a few hundred dollars in advance for me to get started primary because of the amount of information needed to be gathered.

I don't know who would come out on top, but regardless his calculations are still shoddy and providing additional calculations or not, won't change that fact.

And, even if I was willing to entertain this challenge, based on how every other argument you get in ends, we both know it wouldn't change your mind anyways.

well Batgirl's ongoing is selling better than WW's

it'sa fact. batgirl's selling better./

@Vance Astro said:

@butterflykyss said:

Ms. Marvel is a lot less recognizable than Storm and she has been given 3 on-goings all of which have been flops. They are not wasting her, they are shoving her down our throats and only 10000 or so readers are eating the crow.

How is Marvel shoving Ms.Marvel down your throat when her ongoings and even her appearances have been limited? Ms.Marvel first ongoing was cancelled in 1979. She didn't get another ongoing until 2006. When that was cancelled she didn't get another book for 6 years. Marvel puts out alot of books that people don't bite on, Marvel has tons of characters who have several volumes of ongoings that ended up getting cancelled, the big 2 (Marvel & DC) both have the same cycle.

Storm having 4988 appearances in 38 years seems more like shoving it down our throats than Carol having 1942 in 45 years. That's an average of 131 Storm appearances per year, and 43 Carol Danvers appearances per year.

Plus, she has her own ongoing, and is on one team, which she's not been featured much in yet. That's hardly shoving her down our throats either.

And 18,359 readers 'ate the crow' last month, not 10,000. Not big numbers, but how do you know a Storm series would sell any better?

The only hesitation I have about dubbing Storm Marvel's "Wonder Woman" is that she's never really been a solo character, and that should be a prerequisite. Could she carry a book herself? I think she could, especially if you focus on her younger years. But even when she's the "star" of a book, it's always in a leadership role of an ensemble.

Marvel seems to be pushing Black Widow, but then that's probably because they don't have the film rights to Storm. Either way, both companies have failed to capitalize on female properties. Catwoman and Elektra? Ugh.

Nope.

Storm fans might wish she was but she's not.