Is Ororo Munroe aka Storm an A-List Character?

#1901 Posted by jhazzroucher (15785 posts) - - Show Bio

Storm doesn't need n onging solo to become A-List but I still want her to have one. : )

#1902 Posted by Walzo (4355 posts) - - Show Bio

Storm doesn't need an ongoing, she's good within her team, without them it's just weird.

#1903 Posted by jhazzroucher (15785 posts) - - Show Bio

@walzo said:

Storm doesn't need an ongoing, she's good within her team, without them it's just weird.

no it isn't . she did have her own mini series

#1904 Posted by Walzo (4355 posts) - - Show Bio

@walzo said:

Storm doesn't need an ongoing, she's good within her team, without them it's just weird.

no it isn't . she did have her own mini series

Was it an Origin series or an actual story?

#1905 Posted by jhazzroucher (15785 posts) - - Show Bio

@walzo said:

@jhazzroucher said:

@walzo said:

Storm doesn't need an ongoing, she's good within her team, without them it's just weird.

no it isn't . she did have her own mini series

Was it an Origin series or an actual story?

actual story

#1906 Posted by tiggertoga (100 posts) - - Show Bio

I LOVEEE. everything about Storm. I think she's an icon, a leader, a role model etc...But she is a B list character to me. She should be an A list character for a number of facts but the fact is she a great fan base but also a good number of haters (somtimes of fans) and non believers as in most people don't think she's that powerful. She's one of my top 3 heroes alongside Wonderwoman and Poison Ivy.

In for all the haters of storm and/or fans. What's the point of

1. Going to her forum.

2. Clicking on a post that your not going to like

3. Commenting on it.

Hello upper east sider comicvine, If you don't think something should be talked about or is not worth being talked about then don't talk about it. Anywho, there wouldn't be fans if there were not haters. XOXO Gossip Girl.

#1907 Posted by jhazzroucher (15785 posts) - - Show Bio

@tiggertoga: it's great to see you posting again. : )

#1908 Posted by mrkareemruiz (39 posts) - - Show Bio

YES!

#1909 Posted by jhazzroucher (15785 posts) - - Show Bio
#1910 Edited by mrkareemruiz (39 posts) - - Show Bio

Storm is the best of all the xmen. Yes, she is A list!

#1911 Posted by jhazzroucher (15785 posts) - - Show Bio

Storm is the best of all the xmen. Yes, she is A list!

of course she is. : )

#1912 Posted by jhazzroucher (15785 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm so glad that Storm is showing up in a lot of comics. : )

#1913 Edited by Vance Astro (91230 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops is more important than Storm to the X-Men mythos by miles and he's not A-list so neither is she.

Moderator
#1914 Posted by Z3RO180 (6538 posts) - - Show Bio

No

#1915 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@antemiusenteri: wonder woman is an icon on her own right,she has had her own title for 7 decades,a successful solo title,a live action series considered a clasic,people still think of lynda carter when anyone names wonder woman,a successful animated movie,the only thing left for wonder woman is to get a successful movie in the big screen and her own video game then she will have a successful career in all formats,but the most important thing,people outside the comic world know who wonder woman is,not becaue of batman and superman,because she made her own impact being the first action female in a leading role in comc history,people know her from different formats not just comics.

#1916 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@poisonfleur: storm fans and popularity don't beat wonder woman,lol,storm was a one hit wonder in the 90s when she was bigger thanks to the x-man show,when has she had the comic sales and successful proyects outside comics like wonder woman has had?.

wonder woman is still the best selling female comic character,her live action series was a worldwide hit and a classic,her own animated movie was also a hit,and she has been able to keep her own title for 72 years,storm has not the success and popularity that wonder woman has,and she isn't as known outside comics as wonder woman is.

#1917 Posted by theTimeStreamer (2841 posts) - - Show Bio

no. not even close.

#1918 Edited by Knightfall225 (1989 posts) - - Show Bio

STORM is a B lister !! She is not up their with the heavy hitters like Superman Batman WW Spiderman Wolverine And the general non comic book readers know all of the people i just listed and they dont even read comics. But if i were to ask them about storm they most likely wouldnt know who she was. Storm is a top B lister though. Shes up there with the Flash and Green Lantern

#1919 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@jhazzroucher said:

@Jack Donaghy said:

If you have to ask that means she isn't.

You could say she was an A-lister in the early to mid 2000's thanks to Halle Berry playing her in the X-Men movies but she isn't one anymore. If you are a superhero and you're not named Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, Wolverine, Iron Man, The Hulk, Wonder Woman, Captain America, Thor or Green Lantern you aren't an A-lister. Storm is a solid B-lister though and there's nothing wrong with that, like someone said earlier the majority of comic book characters are C and D-listers.

WW and Green Lantern are not A-lister though WW just needs to get a movie so she won't get behind

Wonder Woman definitely is, and GL is one of DC's highest sellers, has had his own cartoon and movie. He's arguable but I think he's an A-list character especially in the comic world. Wonder Woman is easily the most famous female comic book character ever, she doesn't need a movie to remain where she is. Think of it like this Wonder Woman has't done anything major in the mainstream since her TV show ended in the 70's and she's STILL an iconic and highly popular character. Meanwhile Storm's last major mainstream appearance was X-Men:The Last Stand in 2006 and she hasn't been as popular as she was when those movies were being made.

Storm isn't a A-lister because she pretty much needs to be on a team to sell well also being played by a Oscar winning actress like Halle Berry is a major factor in her popularity in the 1st place. With a character like Wonder Woman the person playing her would become a bigger star just from the rub off playing such an iconic character would leave. With Storm not so much.

which is what happended to lynda carter,she became huge by playing wonder woman,her live action show became a worldwide hit that lasted 4 years and has been aired all around the world,and the DVDS of the series are still selling,and after 34 years since it ended,wonder woman is still able to suatain her own title,and let's not forget wondr woman animated movie which is one of DC t0 best selling animated movies and new proyects that are coming for the character.

#1920 Posted by RulerOfThisUniverse (6335 posts) - - Show Bio

Nope, B-list.

Online
#1921 Edited by tupiaz (2184 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops is more important than Storm to the X-Men mythos by miles and he's not A-list so neither is she.

This.

no. not even close.

This.

Nope, B-list.

Even that is kind spot. Daredevil and Thor is a B list character and Storm is less known and popular than them.

There is a dozen or so A-list characters: Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, Spider-Man, Hulk, Captain America, and Wolverine on a good day Iron Man can be there as well.

#1922 Edited by Vance Astro (91230 posts) - - Show Bio

@tupiaz said:

Even that is kind spot. Daredevil and Thor is a B list character and Storm is less known and popular than them.

There is a dozen or so A-list characters: Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, Spider-Man, Hulk, Captain America, and Wolverine on a good day Iron Man can be there as well.

I think the criteria for A-list should be how much attention,money,& marketing Marvel puts behind a character and by that criteria I think Daredevil & Thor both are A-list. I also don't think Storm is more popular than either of them, I believe more people know who she is because she's been exposed to a broader audience but I don't think she has more fans, and I mean real fans. I'm not talking about the people who like her but barely read comics or own any Storm merchandise and aren't helping advance her brand in any way. I don't know what anyone else's criteria is but according the the Ulmer Scale and what's used for celebrities, the A-list are the celebrities that have achieved the highest social status (like Oprah,The Jolie-Pitt clan,Jerry Seinfeld etc.). We could use a similar criteria for comic characters.

Moderator
#1923 Posted by tupiaz (2184 posts) - - Show Bio

@tupiaz said:

Even that is kind spot. Daredevil and Thor is a B list character and Storm is less known and popular than them.

There is a dozen or so A-list characters: Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, Spider-Man, Hulk, Captain America, and Wolverine on a good day Iron Man can be there as well.

I think the criteria for A-list should be how much attention,money,& marketing Marvel puts behind a character and by that criteria I think Daredevil & Thor both are A-list. I also don't think Storm is more popular than either of them, I believe more people know who she is because she's been exposed to a broader audience but I don't think she has more fans, and I mean real fans. I'm not talking about the people who like her but barely read comics or own any Storm merchandise and aren't helping advance her brand in any way. I don't know what anyone else's criteria is but according the the Ulmer Scale and what's used for celebrities, the A-list are the celebrities that have achieved the highest social status (like Oprah,The Jolie-Pitt clan,Jerry Seinfeld etc.). We could use a similar criteria for comic characters.

That was the scale I was trying to use and there neither Daredevil nor Thor is an A-list.

#1924 Posted by Vance Astro (91230 posts) - - Show Bio

@tupiaz said:

That was the scale I was trying to use and there neither Daredevil nor Thor is an A-list.

They'd have to be.

Moderator
#1925 Posted by tupiaz (2184 posts) - - Show Bio

@tupiaz said:

That was the scale I was trying to use and there neither Daredevil nor Thor is an A-list.

They'd have to be.

No. There are no way nearly as well known nor popular.

#1926 Posted by Vance Astro (91230 posts) - - Show Bio

@tupiaz said:

No. There are no way nearly as well known nor popular.

-_-

Moderator
#1927 Posted by SUNMAN (7239 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops is more important than Storm to the X-Men mythos by miles and he's not A-list so neither is she.

Cyclops isn't A-List? what?!

who is more important to the X-men mythos Cyclops or Wolverine?

#1928 Posted by Vance Astro (91230 posts) - - Show Bio

@sunman said:

Cyclops isn't A-List? what?!

who is more important to the X-men mythos Cyclops or Wolverine?

Because if you take away "X-men" there's no Cyclops.

Moderator
#1929 Posted by SUNMAN (7239 posts) - - Show Bio

@sunman said:

Cyclops isn't A-List? what?!

who is more important to the X-men mythos Cyclops or Wolverine?

Because if you take away "X-men" there's no Cyclops.

okay? but what does that have to do with anything.

X-men is arguably the biggest franchise in comicbook history.

#1930 Posted by Wolverine08 (42227 posts) - - Show Bio

To comics readers, Storm is an A/B lister, to the general public, she is a Z lister.

#1931 Edited by Vance Astro (91230 posts) - - Show Bio

@sunman said:

okay? but what does that have to do with anything.

X-men is arguably the biggest franchise in comicbook history.

What do you mean what does that have to do with anything? X-men is a team, Cyclops is a character ON that team. Wolverine is bigger than the team, Cyclops is not. That's why Wolverine is A-list and Cyclops isn't.

Moderator
#1932 Posted by SUNMAN (7239 posts) - - Show Bio

@vance_astro: you can still be a member of a team and be A-List.

X-men has been the most popular team for years and years. One could argue Avengers has surpassed it over the last few years. Regardless, the X-men isn't just any team it is thee Team.

And the team and Cyclops back story only strengthens his character imo.

X-men is huge. Cyclops doesn't have to be bigger than the X-men to be iconic and A-List.

#1933 Posted by Vance Astro (91230 posts) - - Show Bio

@sunman said:

@vance_astro: you can still be a member of a team and be A-List.

You can, but the team can't define you.

@sunman said:

X-men has been the most popular team for years and years. One could argue Avengers has surpassed it over the last few years. Regardless, the X-men isn't just any team it is thee Team.

Right, but it's popularity is due to the several team members and not just Cyclops. Gambit has fans, Rogue has fans, Storm has fans, Wolverine has fans etc. Every member contributes to it's success.

@sunman said:

X-men is huge. Cyclops doesn't have to be bigger than the X-men to be iconic and A-List.

I don't see how we can put him on the same level as characters like Spider-Man,Wolverine,Hulk etc. who have created their own lane and didn't need the collective popularity of a team to get there. Characters who have volumes of comics that are hundreds of issues long that have spanned over decades, characters that have tons of merchandise and media with THEIR NAME on it. I don't see how we can compare them. What is the criteria and which you're judging who and should not be A-list?

Moderator
#1934 Posted by tupiaz (2184 posts) - - Show Bio

@tupiaz said:

No. There are no way nearly as well known nor popular.

-_-

Just like the post before this this is another brilliant argument!

#1935 Edited by The Stegman (24382 posts) - - Show Bio

I stil say she's a solid B. Though the way she's been used lately, I think that even if she disappeared from the X-Men, no one would really miss her. (inside the universe)

#1936 Edited by Vance Astro (91230 posts) - - Show Bio

@tupiaz said:

Just like the post before this this is another brilliant argument!

Posts like this are exactly why I opted not to argue with you in the first place.

Moderator
#1937 Posted by leoseeks (7 posts) - - Show Bio
#1938 Posted by Vance Astro (91230 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_stegman said:

I stil say she's a solid B. Though the way she's been used lately, I think that even if she disappeared from the X-Men, no one would really miss her. (inside the universe)

Good point.

Moderator
#1939 Posted by tupiaz (2184 posts) - - Show Bio

@tupiaz said:

Just like the post before this this is another brilliant argument!

Posts like this are exactly why I opted not to argue with you in the first place.

Well first you gave me a simple no which I couldn't use to much really. Then I gave the argument that the are not as popular. Which both movie appearance and sales shows. Thor is doing better but is not near A-list character. You then just gave me an annoyed smiley face. So you didn't really gave much input or argument for your case. Could I have given a more polite and less sarcastic answer? Probably but your answers to me (especially your smiley) wasn't that polite either. So I simply gave back in your own coin. I would rather discus this in a serious manner. Your choice!

#1940 Edited by CheeseSticks (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops, Wolverine and Magneto are the only A-lister in the X-Men

Online
#1941 Posted by Vance Astro (91230 posts) - - Show Bio

@tupiaz said:

Well first you gave me a simple no which I couldn't use to much really. Then I gave the argument that the are not as popular. Which both movie appearance and sales shows. Thor is doing better but is not near A-list character. You then just gave me an annoyed smiley face. So you didn't really gave much input or argument for your case. Could I have given a more polite and less sarcastic answer? Probably but your answers to me (especially your smiley) wasn't that polite either. So I simply gave back in your own coin. I would rather discus this in a serious manner. Your choice!

I didn't give you a simple no, to start. I gave you the criteria I was using to suggest who is and who is not A-list. You then told me you are using the same criteria, yet somehow Thor and Daredevil aren't A-list by that criteria. You said that there are a dozen or so A-list characters (Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, Spider-Man, Hulk, Captain America, and Wolverine and Iron Man on a good day) so after you say Daredevil & Thor don't fit here because "they aren't nearly as popular" than that's why I gave you a -_- because either we aren't using the same scale or you're distorting it.

Moderator
#1942 Posted by tupiaz (2184 posts) - - Show Bio

@tupiaz said:

Well first you gave me a simple no which I couldn't use to much really. Then I gave the argument that the are not as popular. Which both movie appearance and sales shows. Thor is doing better but is not near A-list character. You then just gave me an annoyed smiley face. So you didn't really gave much input or argument for your case. Could I have given a more polite and less sarcastic answer? Probably but your answers to me (especially your smiley) wasn't that polite either. So I simply gave back in your own coin. I would rather discus this in a serious manner. Your choice!

I didn't give you a simple no, to start. I gave you the criteria I was using to suggest who is and who is not A-list. You then told me you are using the same criteria, yet somehow Thor and Daredevil aren't A-list by that criteria. You said that there are a dozen or so A-list characters (Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, Spider-Man, Hulk, Captain America, and Wolverine and Iron Man on a good day) so after you say Daredevil & Thor don't fit here because "they aren't nearly as popular" than that's why I gave you a -_- because either we aren't using the same scale or you're distorting it.

We are using the same scale we just disagree on how to define something as an A-list. An A list would be know by many outside of the world of Comics a B-list not so much or to a lesser degree. But saying that Daredevil of popularity or is as know as Iron Man or any of the others is not true. I know many people how have seen the Iron Man movie and Know who he is and don't know Daredevil at all. Daredevil is a relative unknown obscure character from one of the big two outside of the worlds of comic. Iron Man had a animated series in the 90's there is made 3 movies with him plus Avengers. Thor and Daredevil didn't had any animated shows (Daredevil appeared on TAS show but thats about it. Thor is getting a new movie his first was a succes but Iron Man is still a bigger icon.

Also you gave me this short answer that I couldn't really use and what was I describe as a simply no answer. You could call my answer a no and yours a yes but that doesn't change much.

@tupiaz said:

That was the scale I was trying to use and there neither Daredevil nor Thor is an A-list.

They'd have to be.

You are the one arguing they should be an A-list you should give the argument why they should be on the list.

#1943 Edited by Doomnaut (1993 posts) - - Show Bio

I say she's an A- list character.

#1944 Posted by Vance Astro (91230 posts) - - Show Bio

@tupiaz said:

We are using the same scale we just disagree on how to define something as an A-list. An A list would be know by many outside of the world of Comics a B-list not so much or to a lesser degree. But saying that Daredevil of popularity or is as know as Iron Man or any of the others is not true. I know many people how have seen the Iron Man movie and Know who he is and don't know Daredevil at all. Daredevil is a relative unknown obscure character from one of the big two outside of the worlds of comic. Iron Man had a animated series in the 90's there is made 3 movies with him plus Avengers. Thor and Daredevil didn't had any animated shows (Daredevil appeared on TAS show but thats about it. Thor is getting a new movie his first was a succes but Iron Man is still a bigger icon.

Also you gave me this short answer that I couldn't really use and what was I describe as a simply no answer. You could call my answer a no and yours a yes but that doesn't change much.

This is why I know we're not using the same scale. You're saying that A-list would be known to many outside the world of comics? Comics aren't popular enough for you to rate characters that way. We aren't talking about celebrities, film stars, or professional sports players we're talking characters in a form of media that is as popular as it once was. You could do this same thing with Anime. They are alot of really popular anime characters that wouldn't make the A-list because people who don't watch anime don't know who they are but that's not because Anime isn't popular but in the U.S. it's considered a nerdy thing that many people don't bother watching. Just like you know people who know who Iron Man is who can't tell you who Daredevil is, I know people who can't name even 1 anime character that isn't from Dragonball Z.

Now as far as defining the scale itself, just looking at MARVEL COMICS, A-list would the characters that are making MARVEL the most money and also the characters that are most important to them, Those characters would be (Spider-Man,Wolverine,Hulk,Thor,Iron Man,Captain America,Deadpool,Daredevil,& The Punisher). The reason why is because out of all the Marvel characters these 9 have made Marvel the most money and they get the biggest push and financial backing from the company. Daredevil not being as popular as Iron Man is irrelevant because NONE of them are on the same level of popularity but they are all on the same STATUS level.

This is why characters like Cyclops,Storm,Gambit,Hawkeye,Black Widow,Colossus are B-List. They are popular, they have fanbases but if popularity is ONLY basis for A-list then damn near the whole X-men roster from the 90's Animated Series would be A-list because ALOT of people know who they are, not just Wolverine. Alot of people who don't read comics can tell you who Jean,Cyclops,Beast,Storm,Nightcrawler,Rogue & Gambit are.

Moderator
#1945 Posted by tupiaz (2184 posts) - - Show Bio

@tupiaz said:

We are using the same scale we just disagree on how to define something as an A-list. An A list would be know by many outside of the world of Comics a B-list not so much or to a lesser degree. But saying that Daredevil of popularity or is as know as Iron Man or any of the others is not true. I know many people how have seen the Iron Man movie and Know who he is and don't know Daredevil at all. Daredevil is a relative unknown obscure character from one of the big two outside of the worlds of comic. Iron Man had a animated series in the 90's there is made 3 movies with him plus Avengers. Thor and Daredevil didn't had any animated shows (Daredevil appeared on TAS show but thats about it. Thor is getting a new movie his first was a succes but Iron Man is still a bigger icon.

Also you gave me this short answer that I couldn't really use and what was I describe as a simply no answer. You could call my answer a no and yours a yes but that doesn't change much.

This is why I know we're not using the same scale. You're saying that A-list would be known to many outside the world of comics? Comics aren't popular enough for you to rate characters that way. We aren't talking about celebrities, film stars, or professional sports players we're talking characters in a form of media that is as popular as it once was. You could do this same thing with Anime. They are alot of really popular anime characters that wouldn't make the A-list because people who don't watch anime don't know who they are but that's not because Anime isn't popular but in the U.S. it's considered a nerdy thing that many people don't bother watching. Just like you know people who know who Iron Man is who can't tell you who Daredevil is, I know people who can't name even 1 anime character that isn't from Dragonball Z.

Now as far as defining the scale itself, just looking at MARVEL COMICS, A-list would the characters that are making MARVEL the most money and also the characters that are most important to them, Those characters would be (Spider-Man,Wolverine,Hulk,Thor,Iron Man,Captain America,Deadpool,Daredevil,& The Punisher). The reason why is because out of all the Marvel characters these 9 have made Marvel the most money and they get the biggest push and financial backing from the company. Daredevil not being as popular as Iron Man is irrelevant because NONE of them are on the same level of popularity but they are all on the same STATUS level.

This is why characters like Cyclops,Storm,Gambit,Hawkeye,Black Widow,Colossus are B-List. They are popular, they have fanbases but if popularity is ONLY basis for A-list then damn near the whole X-men roster from the 90's Animated Series would be A-list because ALOT of people know who they are, not just Wolverine. Alot of people who don't read comics can tell you who Jean,Cyclops,Beast,Storm,Nightcrawler,Rogue & Gambit are.

Comics isn't as popular as it once was. In the golden age it sold millions and had the readers as well unlike the 90's. Still the end 80's would can books that sold 100.000 that is the top selling books now. Also anime is a sub genre of cartoons not know so much outside of Japan (even though it has its cult following and is coming to a broader audience in the western world) which means that they could easily be many A-list characters in anime in Japan not just in the western world. I don't know how many european characters is know in US but I'm guessing it is Only the Smurfs and Tintin many of these characters in the series alone would be A-list characters in Europe. A long side Spirou et Fantasio (especially Marsupilami), Lucky Luke, Asterix (and Obilix) probably even forgot a name or two. You can take a culture from one place and expect it to have the same culture impact in another country or world. Even though USA export a lot of culture and you country is building on imported European (for the most parts) cultures it doesn't mean that USA is the measurement of culture. So anime popularity should be measured by popularity in Japan not in the western world nor USA. Since it here has a lot less of impact.

The status level from the company has nothing to do with the the Ulmer Scale it would be what characters that are most bankable and there Deadpool, Daredevil, Punisher nor Thor at. Thor clearly being the highest ranking followed by Deadpool then Daredevil and then Punisher.

#1946 Edited by jhazzroucher (15785 posts) - - Show Bio

@vance_astro said:

@tupiaz said:

We are using the same scale we just disagree on how to define something as an A-list. An A list would be know by many outside of the world of Comics a B-list not so much or to a lesser degree. But saying that Daredevil of popularity or is as know as Iron Man or any of the others is not true. I know many people how have seen the Iron Man movie and Know who he is and don't know Daredevil at all. Daredevil is a relative unknown obscure character from one of the big two outside of the worlds of comic. Iron Man had a animated series in the 90's there is made 3 movies with him plus Avengers. Thor and Daredevil didn't had any animated shows (Daredevil appeared on TAS show but thats about it. Thor is getting a new movie his first was a succes but Iron Man is still a bigger icon.

Also you gave me this short answer that I couldn't really use and what was I describe as a simply no answer. You could call my answer a no and yours a yes but that doesn't change much.

This is why I know we're not using the same scale. You're saying that A-list would be known to many outside the world of comics? Comics aren't popular enough for you to rate characters that way. We aren't talking about celebrities, film stars, or professional sports players we're talking characters in a form of media that is as popular as it once was. You could do this same thing with Anime. They are alot of really popular anime characters that wouldn't make the A-list because people who don't watch anime don't know who they are but that's not because Anime isn't popular but in the U.S. it's considered a nerdy thing that many people don't bother watching. Just like you know people who know who Iron Man is who can't tell you who Daredevil is, I know people who can't name even 1 anime character that isn't from Dragonball Z.

Now as far as defining the scale itself, just looking at MARVEL COMICS, A-list would the characters that are making MARVEL the most money and also the characters that are most important to them, Those characters would be (Spider-Man,Wolverine,Hulk,Thor,Iron Man,Captain America,Deadpool,Daredevil,& The Punisher). The reason why is because out of all the Marvel characters these 9 have made Marvel the most money and they get the biggest push and financial backing from the company. Daredevil not being as popular as Iron Man is irrelevant because NONE of them are on the same level of popularity but they are all on the same STATUS level.

This is why characters like Cyclops,Storm,Gambit,Hawkeye,Black Widow,Colossus are B-List. They are popular, they have fanbases but if popularity is ONLY basis for A-list then damn near the whole X-men roster from the 90's Animated Series would be A-list because ALOT of people know who they are, not just Wolverine. Alot of people who don't read comics can tell you who Jean,Cyclops,Beast,Storm,Nightcrawler,Rogue & Gambit are.

Being an A-lister is not just about comics. It includes all forms of media and being known worldwide. We include everything because that would mean the character 's popularity, influence and recognition doesn't only start and end in comics, and comics is just a little form of media compared to televisions and movies.

Storm and Cyclops not having their own book doesn't excuse them not to be considered A-listers. Having an ongoing solo is not a requirement. Ms Marvel can't be placed higher than Storm and Cyclops. Even Carnage, Hawkeye, Spawn, Buffy have their own books but they're not considered A-listers. and making money doesn't make one an A-list.

#1947 Posted by jhazzroucher (15785 posts) - - Show Bio

@sunman said:

Cyclops isn't A-List? what?!

who is more important to the X-men mythos Cyclops or Wolverine?

Because if you take away "X-men" there's no Cyclops.

unfortunately, you can't take away X-Men. so don't assume.

#1948 Posted by tupiaz (2184 posts) - - Show Bio

@vance_astro said:

@tupiaz said:

We are using the same scale we just disagree on how to define something as an A-list. An A list would be know by many outside of the world of Comics a B-list not so much or to a lesser degree. But saying that Daredevil of popularity or is as know as Iron Man or any of the others is not true. I know many people how have seen the Iron Man movie and Know who he is and don't know Daredevil at all. Daredevil is a relative unknown obscure character from one of the big two outside of the worlds of comic. Iron Man had a animated series in the 90's there is made 3 movies with him plus Avengers. Thor and Daredevil didn't had any animated shows (Daredevil appeared on TAS show but thats about it. Thor is getting a new movie his first was a succes but Iron Man is still a bigger icon.

Also you gave me this short answer that I couldn't really use and what was I describe as a simply no answer. You could call my answer a no and yours a yes but that doesn't change much.

This is why I know we're not using the same scale. You're saying that A-list would be known to many outside the world of comics? Comics aren't popular enough for you to rate characters that way. We aren't talking about celebrities, film stars, or professional sports players we're talking characters in a form of media that is as popular as it once was. You could do this same thing with Anime. They are alot of really popular anime characters that wouldn't make the A-list because people who don't watch anime don't know who they are but that's not because Anime isn't popular but in the U.S. it's considered a nerdy thing that many people don't bother watching. Just like you know people who know who Iron Man is who can't tell you who Daredevil is, I know people who can't name even 1 anime character that isn't from Dragonball Z.

Now as far as defining the scale itself, just looking at MARVEL COMICS, A-list would the characters that are making MARVEL the most money and also the characters that are most important to them, Those characters would be (Spider-Man,Wolverine,Hulk,Thor,Iron Man,Captain America,Deadpool,Daredevil,& The Punisher). The reason why is because out of all the Marvel characters these 9 have made Marvel the most money and they get the biggest push and financial backing from the company. Daredevil not being as popular as Iron Man is irrelevant because NONE of them are on the same level of popularity but they are all on the same STATUS level.

This is why characters like Cyclops,Storm,Gambit,Hawkeye,Black Widow,Colossus are B-List. They are popular, they have fanbases but if popularity is ONLY basis for A-list then damn near the whole X-men roster from the 90's Animated Series would be A-list because ALOT of people know who they are, not just Wolverine. Alot of people who don't read comics can tell you who Jean,Cyclops,Beast,Storm,Nightcrawler,Rogue & Gambit are.

Being an A-lister is not just about comics. It includes all forms of media and being known worldwide. We include everything because that would mean the character 's popularity, influence and recognition doesn't only start and end in comics, and comics is just a little form of media compared to televisions and movies.

Storm and Cyclops not having their own book doesn't excuse them not to be considered A-listers. Having an ongoing solo is not a requirement. Ms Marvel can't be placed higher than Storm and Cyclops. Even Carnage, Hawkeye, Spawn, Buffy have their own books but they're not considered A-listers. and making money doesn't make one an A-list.

I would say it would be hard to be an A-list and not having your own ongoing. That doesn't having one make you one. Making money or being bankable is what defines the normal A-lst so why not here? Also it is damn hard not to be bankable when if you are popular.

#1949 Posted by jhazzroucher (15785 posts) - - Show Bio

Making money is a factor so is having a lot of appearances in other and all forms of media.

Being on a bankable team doesn't mean the members can't become A-listers.

#1950 Edited by Vance Astro (91230 posts) - - Show Bio

@tupiaz said:

Comics isn't as popular as it once was. In the golden age it sold millions and had the readers as well unlike the 90's. Still the end 80's would can books that sold 100.000 that is the top selling books now. Also anime is a sub genre of cartoons not know so much outside of Japan (even though it has its cult following and is coming to a broader audience in the western world) which means that they could easily be many A-list characters in anime in Japan not just in the western world. I don't know how many european characters is know in US but I'm guessing it is Only the Smurfs and Tintin many of these characters in the series alone would be A-list characters in Europe. A long side Spirou et Fantasio (especially Marsupilami), Lucky Luke, Asterix (and Obilix) probably even forgot a name or two. You can take a culture from one place and expect it to have the same culture impact in another country or world. Even though USA export a lot of culture and you country is building on imported European (for the most parts) cultures it doesn't mean that USA is the measurement of culture. So anime popularity should be measured by popularity in Japan not in the western world nor USA. Since it here has a lot less of impact.

Anime has TONS of fans in this country, probably more people watch anime than read comics. So you can't say that because Anime is Japanese that's the reason many who don't watch it don't know who the characters are.

@tupiaz said:

The status level from the company has nothing to do with the the Ulmer Scale it would be what characters that are most bankable and there Deadpool, Daredevil, Punisher nor Thor at. Thor clearly being the highest ranking followed by Deadpool then Daredevil and then Punisher.

The characters I named are the only characters you can say are actively making Marvel any money. You can't put Deadpool,Daredevil,Punisher & Thor on the same level as characters that have nothing to their name because what they contribute to the earnings of the company is here say.

EDIT: Also status does have something to do with the Ulmer Scale. Which is why Kim Kardashian is considered A-list. She isn't making anywhere near the amount of money that Johnny Depp or Will Smith are making but she is of the same social STATUS.

@jhazzroucher said:

Being an A-lister is not just about comics. It includes all forms of media and being known worldwide. We include everything because that would mean the character 's popularity, influence and recognition doesn't only start and end in comics, and comics is just a little form of media compared to televisions and movies.

Storm and Cyclops not having their own book doesn't excuse them not to be considered A-listers. Having an ongoing solo is not a requirement. Ms Marvel can't be placed higher than Storm and Cyclops. Even Carnage, Hawkeye, Spawn, Buffy have their own books but they're not considered A-listers. and making money doesn't make one an A-list.

Please try and argue with what i'm saying and not at random. I know it includes all forms of media and every character I named as A-list has contributed to Marvel's growth inside and out of comics. How many people know a characters name however doesn't compare earning the company money.

Storm & Cyclops don't have their own books but they also don't have their own ANYTHING. They don't have their own games, they don't have their own movies, they don't have their own live action or cartoon shows, none of that. So I don't know why you want to keep having this "they can still be A-list without having an ongoing" argument with me. Also I disagree that Buffy the Vampire Slayer isn't A-list. She has one of the LONGEST RUNNING ongoing comics for a female character, she had a successful television show and a film. She's making money that can be calculated and compared with other A-listers.

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