Starfire, I Have Hope for You!

Posted by DreamerOfEden (26 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh Starfire, how you never cease to make our blood run with the passion of our ideals! Hello fellow comic books lovers! I've already posted one blog (my first) regarding Starfire and her portrayal in Red Hood and the Outlaws, and while my opinions about Starfire were predominantly negative, I've decided to spread some of the optimism that is horribly lacking in this topic area. I whole-heartedly agree with those who feel that abandoning a comic during its first issue is rather unfair (though I also understand money and budget. If an issue just doesn't interest you, that's perfectly acceptable). And I also whole-heartedly agree with my fellow Starfire fans, but let me say this: this issue is only the first. Many, many mysteries have yet to be explained regarding this unlikely group of heroes, and these questions pertain to Starfire as much as they do Jason or Roy. Have patience, and I honestly believe a favorable outcome will occur. A first issue is not meant to give us every aspect of a character and her (or his) trials.

That being said, a first issue is meant to establish a character's fundamental personality in regards to the forseeable future, and given Starfire's current character traits of strength, amnesia, and promiscuity, I also have to say I am rather wary of future issues, as these traits alone provide very little depth to any character in the greater scheme of interest. A character of this aptitude can only have so much said and done to them before a change is needed to maintain the stimulation of the audience. A static, stagnant character with little depth provides this necessary mental stimulation for only so long.

And that brings me to another point: the derogatory terms (slut, whore, you get it) used to describe Star's...personality. I admit that I used these words in reference to Starfire in the New 52, and after reading several comments and articles regarding those terms and their usage, I have decided to cease using them myself.

Use of these terms only stands to weaken an argument, as the definitions of these words varies from individual to individual. What is a slut? Some would say it is a woman (or man) who engages in casual sex. Another would say it is someone who has sex before marriage. Still more would say it is someone who commits adultery. Regardless, these terms are obviously tailored to an individual's moral beliefs and ideals. Who's to say which definition should be used for Starfire? Before the New 52, various people regarded Starfire as a whore simply due to her clothing options and somewhat promiscuous nature, which was obviously unfair, as a great number of comic characters were and are less than innocent, and have taken part in various sexual activities with various people. It's more common for a comic character to be sexually promiscuous than not. And really, Starfire's lover list was not that long, at least not any longer than many others'. So let's bury those terms, eh? From a female perspective, these words are particularly degrading, and using them in reference to a fellow female (no matter what her sexual behavior may entail) only strengthens the negativity. I understand that Starfire's previous sexual identity was also accompanied by her loving nature and strong sense of justice; but this Starfire should not be given the burn before we have a chance to really understand the elements to her character. And one issue does not completely sum up her personality. It provides us with an appetizer, not the main course.

Ultimately, I find myself willing to stick around for a few more issues. There are many aspects of Starfire's character yet to be witnessed, and I continue to believe that her memory deterioration is a probable plot point. After all, her experiences on Earth, especially those with the Titans, shaped her character into what it is...was. Whatever. And because if this fact, I find it possible that her current state of mind can be a direct result of her amnesia. Perhaps when (or if) Star's memory returns, we'll finally see a character we can appreciate, both as a woman and as a superhero. I don't mind a few tweaks to her personality; in fact, I encourage it, as a dynamic, changing character is one that provides consistent depth and entertainment. I have hope for Star's future as one of these characters, as I think we all should. Lobdell himself openly expresses his great love for the alien princess, and I doubt he would use that adoration to send her down the wrong path; perhaps his plans for her character will eventually lead us to a greater rendition of Starfire, one that develops and grows with her experiences, while still remaining true to her fundamental nature.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to read this little baby of mine. Please don't hesitate to comment and add your own opinion to the mix. Witnessing various sides of a discussion only serves to broaden each of our horizons. Thanks for the life lesson, Kingdom Hearts :)

#1 Posted by The Poet (8338 posts) - - Show Bio

@DreamerOfEden: Welcome to comicvine!

I totally agree with you 100%!

Moderator
#2 Posted by God_Spawn (38091 posts) - - Show Bio

That's all we gotta do is wait and see. I for one am enjoying the series so far.

Moderator
#3 Posted by DreamerOfEden (26 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Poet: Thank you! I'm glad you agree!

#4 Posted by MetallicMercury (82 posts) - - Show Bio

I have to agree with you on this. At least this version of her isn't totally hung up on Dick Grayson.

#5 Posted by DreamerOfEden (26 posts) - - Show Bio

@MetallicMercury: Exactly! Thanks for commenting!

#6 Posted by God_Spawn (38091 posts) - - Show Bio
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#7 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio
@god_spawn said:

That's all we gotta do is wait and see. I for one am enjoying the series so far.

Moi Aussi .
#8 Posted by God_Spawn (38091 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

@god_spawn said:

That's all we gotta do is wait and see. I for one am enjoying the series so far.

Moi Aussi .

I don't speak French but I'm guessing that says me too.

Moderator
#9 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio
@god_spawn said:

@ReVamp said:

@god_spawn said:

That's all we gotta do is wait and see. I for one am enjoying the series so far.

Moi Aussi .

I don't speak French but I'm guessing that says me too.

Oui. Yeah, I agree with you on both points.
#10 Posted by God_Spawn (38091 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp: The picture is hysterical too lol.

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#11 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio
@god_spawn said:

@ReVamp: The picture is hysterical too lol.

I've seen  that pic way too many times as a Dick Grayson fan...>__>
#12 Posted by God_Spawn (38091 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp: Nightwing's pretty cool, though I bag on him just to spite DH which is hysterical. Jason's still my fave DC character though when he isn't ginger Todd.

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#13 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio
@god_spawn: I like Jason todd too, but that ginger phase was pretty horrible. Like really... Thanks god he's back to normal in this series. Though Nightwing is still better :P
#14 Posted by God_Spawn (38091 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp: I can respect that.

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#15 Posted by daredevil21134 (12086 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

How annoying

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#16 Posted by DreamerOfEden (26 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: Hahaha! Jason's my favorite, too. I guess it's obvious when you look at my profile page. Jason-galore! I liked it when they made him a natural red head again. I thought of it as a cool symbolism of his role as the 'black sheep' of the Bat Family. Here we have all of these black-haired boys, and there's Jason with his ginger locks! :) A physical representation of his 'outsider' attitude. Gotta love it!

#17 Posted by God_Spawn (38091 posts) - - Show Bio

@DreamerOfEden: I'm stereotypical with him, I actually like his current look the best, I never liked the red headed look, but it had a deeper meaning to it if thught about like you pointed out.

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#18 Posted by luckydomino1 (491 posts) - - Show Bio

@daredevil21134: lol couldnt stop laughing is she reffering to dick grayson

#19 Posted by daredevil21134 (12086 posts) - - Show Bio

@luckydomino1 said:

@daredevil21134: lol couldnt stop laughing is she reffering to dick grayson

yup lol

Online
#20 Posted by God_Spawn (38091 posts) - - Show Bio

@luckydomino1 said:

@daredevil21134: lol couldnt stop laughing is she reffering to dick grayson

But now she might be referring to something else BAZING.

Moderator
#21 Posted by Chunksie101 (19 posts) - - Show Bio

I read a manga once years ago where the two main characters were just humping all the time and it was a real turn-off I stopped reading it. Later on when I revisited the manga I the mangaka (name of the profession for a person who writes manga either male or female) made a point in using the vigorous sex life of this couple. But at the end of the day I thought "ohho so that is why the two were having sex all the time" and I didn't bother to catch up on all the volumes I had missed in between, or read up until the end.

I haven't read any of the new RHOL (red hood and the out laws) books since the first one but even if the readers are driven to believe that Starfire is infact an independent woman who used to be a slave and now she gets to make her own decisions in life and one of those decisions is to be a living, vibrating, open wall vagina that is welcome to all commers, I still don't see myself catching up with it in the future.

It is really sad because I really like Jason Todd, and I was really looking forward to him having his own comic. And Starfire and Arsenal. It is a real disappointment that this comic has taken for me. And I am not even an avid comic book subscriber but this was one comic that I was really looking forward to.

I think that if lobdel missed his opportunity to make a great shift from Starfire slut to Starfire soul searcher and choose this route in the comic to cause a controversy that DC hoped would drive sales. But it seemed to be kind of a turnoff for most readers. Especially people like me who are only vaguely familiar with the Jason Todd character but like him anyway, and are only familiar with the teen titans version of Starfire, and have only known Arsenal as an evil doer. Had a lot of high hopes for this comic.

I still agree with your comment some what, but I have no hope for Starfire in this comic to recapture the imagination of readers that it has already lost.

#22 Posted by Superguy0009e (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

meh, she'll be back, just gonna take a while

#23 Posted by DreamerOfEden (26 posts) - - Show Bio

@Chunksie101: I can certainly understand your concern. I don't think it would have taken much to make Starfire's role in the first issue a heck of a lot better. But what do we get as her shining moment? Sex. I find it extremely disconcerting that that one aspect of Starfire was the only one Lobdell incorporated, especially since she's a super-strong alien with great powers. Why not simply have her kick a bunch of bootie? We'll never know. Nevertheless, I don't blame you for the position you've taken. Thanks for reading!

#24 Posted by RazzaTazz (9676 posts) - - Show Bio

I bashed the first issue of this pretty bad, and while it is getting better and I do not mind the depiction of Starfire so much anymore, it is now Roy Harper that makes this series unreadable for me.  

Moderator
#25 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33884 posts) - - Show Bio
@DreamerOfEden: I agree. 
 
Also my favourite ranks like this 
  • Tim Drake
  • Jason Todd
  • Dick Grayson
  • Damien Wayne
#26 Posted by Outside_85 (9490 posts) - - Show Bio

I will say that, yeah my vision was red when I read #1 and that easily colored my responses during various discussions during that time. However, I still don't approve of this depiction of Starfire for a number of reasons;

  1. Introduction; I will admit the rest of #1 was lost on me when she said "Do you want to have sex with me?" Yes, perhaps three weeks had passed between picking Roy up and that moment, but really, in the first issue she is already jumping into bed with someone we as an audience barely have any knowledge of. While I have raged against it, I will say that I wouldn't mind it happening, but after we as readers have had a chance to get to grips with who these people are. Added we had the confusing signals from Todd who claimed to have 'been there'. Imagine we sat down to watch something like Batman Begins or X-Men First Class and 10-15min into the movie we see 2 of the main characters busy under the sheets?
  2. Her perception; Joking or not #1 really gave that impression that Starfire really couldn't tell human apart. Added to point 1, you really could get the impression that Starfire really couldn't remember anything from having served on a certain team before, undermining the old friendships she used to have.
  3. Changes; This is probably the biggest thing i dislike about this new version. The old version I saw as one of the bright stories of DC, she had been through hell but she was still a bright and friendly person, and once friendships were formed, you couldn't ask for anyone more loyal than her. Take Raven for instance, the two of them were like night and day from the start, later on during Raven's stranger periods, she unconsciously tried to take Dick away from her, in a way she raped her when she put a Trigon Seed in her not to mention destroying her wedding with Dick and finally being the one ultimately responsible for the destruction of Tamaran (and Starfire's parents if i am not mistaken) and still, after all that, Kory instantly forgave her at the end of NTT in #130. So far I cant see that kind of loyalty or friendliness being present in this version of Starfire (how could she if she cant tell people apart most of the time).

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