Would having a child age Spider-man too much?

#1 Edited by Strider92 (16032 posts) - - Show Bio
She and her bro were originally meant to be Peter's kids.

Well the title pretty much sums up my question. Marvel have always tried to keep Spider-man accessible to all ages and i'm guessing one of the reasons he doesn't have any children in the current 616verse is probably for that exact reason. Its not that it hasn't been considered. Heck it even happened back in the 90's but the baby ended up still-born (or taken by Osborn. I still don't understand wtf happened there) there's even an entire series dedicated to Spider-man and Mary Jane's daughter and the horrific arc called Sin's Past (where Gwen Stacy's character was completely butchered) originally had the twins Gabriel and Sarah as Peter's children not Norman's but at the last minute the guys at Marvel decided that having kids would age Spider-man too much so instead we got the horror that was Sins Past.

That kid would have had one unusual childhood that's for damn sure

Sins Past was not the first time Marvel had considered hooking 616 Spider-man up with a child either. A while back a story was pitched to Marvel by Bill Mantlo about the possibility of having Black Cat become pregnant with the web-slingers child. This like the others was dropped as Jim Shooter thought it would age Peter to much not to mention having a child out of wedlock "apparently" might send the wrong message (personally I don't see a problem with it).

Of course now Spider-man has a side-kick in the form of Alpha (I don't bet much on that lasting long) so he is beginning to break the barrier as he is now a mentor to a young hero. so I pitch the question to you.

Would having a child in the 616verse age Spider-man too much? Or would it simply add more to his character?

#2 Posted by fodigg (6130 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think so. Spider-Man isn't exactly in high school anymore. And they have him mentoring the younger generation or heroes already, including this new Alpha character. I could see how putting him in a marriage might "age" Parker in that it limits what romances they can pair him with, but you don't necessarily need to be married to have a kid. I actually posted a proposal on this theme in the "what would you do if you wrote spidey for a year?" thread:

@fodigg said:

I'd spend my year making MJ relevant to Parker's life but while distancing them romantically because I dislike the current, teasing status quo of the "are they dating? I don't get it." This would include:

  • Just giving MJ powers already, or maybe just giving her a "web-shooter gun" and she doesn't fight crime so much as gets into trouble but is able to get herself back out of said trouble. (objective: remove any vestigial "damsel in distress" element)
  • Give both Parker and MJ new love interests, although keep Cooper in the picture. (objective: shift Peter & MJ's status away from "star crossed lovers" by showing, at least potentially, they're compatible with other partners)
  • Give them a working relationship so there's a reason for them to hang out other than just wanting to see each other. This could be as simple as MJ's becoming the official bar of the Horizon Labs' staff. (objective: let them bump into each other instead of having to seek each other out, which makes it look like their making each other special priorities. Also, it allows you to consolidate his supporting cast into one group.)
  • After they're established apart in different relationships and lives, throw a wrench in their respective love stories so they can have one final night together romantically. (objective: to acknowledge what they've had before—or I guess, what "could have been"—while showing via the afterglow that they simply no longer work, and they can't go back to that relationship. Do this via bittersweet nostalgia and a lack of "spark", not through anger or regret.)
  • Final arc of the year: MJ is pregnant, and she doesn't know if it's Peter's, but it probably is. Paparazzi find out and swarm both of them, complicating their lives (and Spider-Man's). (objective: put "mister responsibility" in a real situation to test that mantra, not a "heroic" test of it. Provide a potential link for them that won't be easily broken even though they're established apart.)
  • Final issue: Peter wants to do right by MJ and is willing to quit everything—both Spider-Man and the job at Horizon Labs—to be Mr. Dad, but MJ tells him 1) the world needs Spider-Man, 2) the world needs Peter Parker the inventor, 3) as a celebrity and successful club owner she's financially capable on her own, 4) they both know they don't belong in a marriage, and 5) the baby isn't his. Peter is relieved but still concerned for MJ being a single mom. MJ tells him she's actually looking forward to being a mother—that she's ready for the responsibility—and that he'll have to just be a "good uncle" to the baby. Last panel reveals that the baby is Peter's, and MJ lied. (objective: May "Mayday" Parker, a good hook for future drama, and a promise of a lasting relationship with MJ for her fans, but a reinforcement of the "single Peter Parker" status quo.)

I know some people might feel the above would age Parker too much, but he's not exactly a teenager even in his current status quo. I think there's a lot of story that can branch out from the above.

#3 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

Peter is what, mid-twenties now? While I agree that he isn't necessarily a kid anymore and it'd be interesting to see how him having a child would play out, I'd feel as if that card would be abused far too much. I prefer Peter as he is right now. Focusing on who he is, on his career and still acting like a teenaged fool.

Moderator
#4 Posted by Lvenger (17876 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget said:

Peter is what, mid-twenties now? While I agree that he isn't necessarily a kid anymore and it'd be interesting to see how him having a child would play out, I'd feel as if that card would be abused far too much. I prefer Peter as he is right now. Focusing on who he is, on his career and still acting like a teenaged fool.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts on the issue.

#5 Posted by Strider92 (16032 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget said:

Peter is what, mid-twenties now?

Honestly its very hard to tell. during the 90's when the clone thing was going and MJ was pregnant he almost seemed in his early to mid 30's. Then he seemed to go back to being in his late twenties and finally since OMD he seems to be in his early to mid twenties.

#6 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92: Yeah, I'm pretty sure OMD retconned him back to his days right out College. So it'd be safe to assume probably 23-25.

Moderator
#7 Posted by spidey 15 (17756 posts) - - Show Bio

No, i don't believe it would age him. Not to the point that i would notice any difference at least. I think the reason. of why spidey seems always as a really young character, is because of his personality. Funny, annoying and blah blah blah.. you get the point. At least, these are the reasons of how i find spidey to be as a character that is not mature enough to be considered "old". I don't think a child would change that, that much imo.

:)

#8 Posted by allfornot2 (80 posts) - - Show Bio

I think so yes. And I also don't really see the appeal of him having a child. If Spider-man could ever truly "Jump The Shark", I think a baby would be the cause.

Another reason, and this is solely my own reason, I'm already enjoying Luke Cage's experience with Parenthood in New Avengers. So I don't really need to get similar stories to those only with Spidey involved.

#9 Posted by Crash_Recovery (850 posts) - - Show Bio

I've seen that argument made, but who cares?

Honestly.

We live in a time where we retcon so often that if it gets boring they can simply act like it never happened.

Also, there's the Ultimate U, which had a teenage Peter Parker running around for 10+ years, and now Miles Morales, so it's not like there's not a youthful Spider-man around for those interested in it.

The same is True of Batman. Does having Damien make him seem too old? Boom, retcon, issue fixed.

#10 Edited by fodigg (6130 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget said:

@Strider92: Yeah, I'm pretty sure OMD retconned him back to his days right out College. So it'd be safe to assume probably 23-25.

Sweet Christmas. That means I am older than Spider-Man. Like, in-continuity.

#11 Posted by Dernman (14611 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes it would. He already feels to old at times don't make it worse. Honestly I would like them to do a rollback on the entire Marvel U.

#12 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29499 posts) - - Show Bio

Have you even read the Alpha story? He's hardly an actual sidekick.

#13 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@InnerVenom123: Indeed, Spidey's been referred to as the sidekick more times than Alpha.

Moderator
#14 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29499 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget said:

@InnerVenom123: Indeed, Spidey's been referred to as the sidekick more times than Alpha.

Which is SO Spidey's luck.

#15 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@InnerVenom123: Yeah and Slott has done a brilliant job in making me hate Alpha.

Moderator
#16 Posted by Strider92 (16032 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget said:

@InnerVenom123: Yeah and Slott has done a brilliant job in making me hate Alpha.

Yeah I really hope he dies now lol.

#17 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29499 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget said:

@InnerVenom123: Yeah and Slott has done a brilliant job in making me hate Alpha.

The best part is that there are people who don't realize that was the point.

Silly fanbase.

#18 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@InnerVenom123 said:

@Deranged Midget said:

@InnerVenom123: Yeah and Slott has done a brilliant job in making me hate Alpha.

The best part is that there are people who don't realize that was the point.

Silly fanbase.

Oh I know the intentions, it's basically written through Peter's words.

Moderator
#19 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29499 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget: Oh yeah, I didn't mean you.

#20 Posted by Billy Batson (57705 posts) - - Show Bio

Alpha>Spider-Man.
BB

#21 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92: Seems that's what Slott is building up to.

Moderator
#22 Posted by darthfury78 (760 posts) - - Show Bio

@allfornot2 said:

I think so yes. And I also don't really see the appeal of him having a child. If Spider-man could ever truly "Jump The Shark", I think a baby would be the cause.

Another reason, and this is solely my own reason, I'm already enjoying Luke Cage's experience with Parenthood in New Avengers. So I don't really need to get similar stories to those only with Spidey involved.

Not unless that child is an adult from an alternate future who comes into the past like Galina Tsarfin or Copycat!!! And the unnamed Spider-Girl from the Next Avengers who is the child of Spider-Man x Black Cat.

Any of them would have made a good ally/sidekick for Spider-Man since they are related to him. Galina Tsarfin was created though the use of the Black Widow x Spider-Man's DNA while Copycat was created through the DNA blood samples of Spider-Man x Mystique. Thus, Galina DNA is 90% Black Widow and 10% Spider-Man and Copycat is 90% Mystique x 10% Spider-Man; but the are hybrid creations.

#23 Posted by joshmightbe (24463 posts) - - Show Bio

Having a child does age you terribly, but a Spiderman rendered in a constant state of agitation when the kid hit the terrible 2s may lead to some truly epic villain beat downs when Spidey decides to vent frustration.

#24 Edited by Razero (336 posts) - - Show Bio

On the subject of Spider-man having kids, Can you guys help with something?

A few years ago Peter and MJ's baby was supposedly stillborn. But Alison Mongraine took something roughly baby sized from the delivery room that Norman Osbourne wanted her to protect in Europe...

Was that story ever picked up again? Is it even still canon?

#25 Posted by joshmightbe (24463 posts) - - Show Bio

@Razero: OMD negated that plot hole

#26 Posted by Razero (336 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe: I suspected as much. Thanks.

#27 Edited by darthfury78 (760 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

@Razero: OMD negated that plot hole

True. But in the Pre-OMD timeline, I am willing to bet that Alison Mongraine(aka Mystique) is raising the child until the time is right to bring her back to her parents. In the Post-OMD timeline, Mayday Parker doesn't exist. But, let's not forget that is Peter was to have a child in the Earth-616 continuity, it's likely to appear as an adult from an alternate future, just like Bruce Banner's daughter, Lyra!!! And it's not going to be Mayday Parker from Earth-982. Rather it might be Galina Tsarfin or Copycat. But under Dan Slott's penmanship, don't expect Peter Parker to follow in Bruce Banner's footsteps with a hybrid child whose from the future and decides to stay in the mainstream Marvel Universe. They don't want Peter Parker to grow up. They want to keep him in a glass jar with limited chance to grow.

#28 Posted by darthfury78 (760 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

Having a child does age you terribly, but a Spiderman rendered in a constant state of agitation when the kid hit the terrible 2s may lead to some truly epic villain beat downs when Spidey decides to vent frustration.

It depends on how the story is conducted. For example, if the story does a timeskip to the point where Peter's child is an adult, then it wouldn't be a big deal. Imagine if a child of Peter Parker x Psylocke from an alternate future timeline were to arrive to Earth-616 as well as a child of Peter Parker and Jessica Drew from another future timeline where to come to Earth-616?

#29 Posted by PunyParker (8837 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultimate Peter is 15.....i think its the most "child" it can get....

#30 Posted by joshmightbe (24463 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthfury78: I always thought the kid coming back from the future as an adult thing was a cop out so lazy writers wouldn't have to deal with actual parenting issues in their books

#31 Edited by darthfury78 (760 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

@darthfury78: I always thought the kid coming back from the future as an adult thing was a cop out so lazy writers wouldn't have to deal with actual parenting issues in their books

True. But Joe Quesada and company are hellbent against Peter Parker having kids. Otherwise, why did they try to get rid of Peter x MJ's child after the Clone Saga? In my opinion, Marvel was dumb to have killed off Ben Reilly and the baby to bring back Peter as Spider-Man. A very bad decision on the part of EIC Bab Harris at the time. This way Peter Parker x Mary Jane could have moved on with their lives raising baby Mayday Parker, who would have been over 5 years old in the comics. And Ben would still be Spider-Man and having Betty Brant as his girl friend instead of Flash Thompson.

The problem with Marvel is that they are too afraid that Peter having a family would not appeal to children. Yeah right. It doesn't appeal to CCO Joe Quesada. So the only solution is to use the alternate reality route as they did with Nocturne, Lyra, Rachel Summers, and Hope Summers. Thus, the idea of characters appealing before Spider-Man who are related to him as his children but with a different mother from an alternate future timeline would be interesting if done right. They are only a few examples of this who are Galina Tsarfin(created from the DNA samples of Black Widow x Spider-Man), Felicity Parker(Spider-Man x Black Cat's child from the Next Avengers), and Copycat(created from the DNA samples of Spider-Man x Mystique), and Spider-Girl 2020(Daughter of Spider-Man x Spider-Woman)! Any one of them could crossover to Earth-616 as adults. But Marvel might not allow that to happen for fear that it might confuse a lot of readers. Neither one of them would be named Spider-Girl. So what's confusing about that?

#32 Posted by theTimeStreamer (2841 posts) - - Show Bio

@Billy Batson: you lie

#33 Posted by Billy Batson (57705 posts) - - Show Bio

@theTimeStreamer said:

@Billy Batson: you lie

Me? Never.
You're the one who's lying c:
BB

#34 Posted by theTimeStreamer (2841 posts) - - Show Bio

@Billy Batson:

#35 Posted by joshmightbe (24463 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthfury78: Quesada Just doesn't like character development he just likes their personalities to remain exactly the same forever with no growth at all.

#36 Posted by darthfury78 (760 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

@darthfury78: Quesada Just doesn't like character development he just likes their personalities to remain exactly the same forever with no growth at all.

I am sure that it will change once JoeQ is gone from Marvel. You can only keep a character in a glass jar for so long before you notice a pattern from the past 50 years like Archie. I am sure that if they could, Peter Parker would still be a High School.

#37 Posted by darthfury78 (760 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

@darthfury78: Quesada Just doesn't like character development he just likes their personalities to remain exactly the same forever with no growth at all.

I am sure that it will change once JoeQ is gone from Marvel. You can only keep a character in a glass jar for so long before you notice a pattern from the past 50 years like Archie. I am sure that if they could, Peter Parker would still be a High School.

#38 Posted by ZenTzen (56 posts) - - Show Bio

Having a kid is one of a couple of reasons Marvel has given us that it would age spidey too much, they killed Gwen because they were too close and advancing their relationship would age him, they got rid of the baby he had with MJ because it would age him too much, they did OMD and got rid of the Peter and MJ marriage because Joe Q wanted him to be a kid again, theres probably others as well but these are the major ones.

Personally i await the day JoeQ isnt in marvel so that they can fix all the bull that happened in spiderman(especially OMD and Sins Past bull)

#39 Edited by darthfury78 (760 posts) - - Show Bio

I

I can't wait for the day when someone could pitch an idea to Marvel about creating an Exiles version of the Spider-Family that could comprise of 6-8 characters who are the alternate reality children of:

1. Spider-Man x Black Widow

2. Spider-Man x Mystique

3. Spider-Man x Psylocke

4. Spider-Man x Spider-Woman

5. Spider-Man x Black Cat

6. Spider-Man x She-Hulk

7. Spider-Man x Silver Sable

8. Spider-Man x Ms. Marvel

Could you imagine this sort of line-up of Peter's adult kids from the women that he never thought he'd have a relationship with from those possible timelines meeting for the first time?

#40 Edited by Strider92 (16032 posts) - - Show Bio

@Billy Batson said:

Alpha>Spider-Man.
BB

Are you trying to declare war!? Cuz you're going the right way about it Billy boy! >:(

#41 Posted by spidey 15 (17756 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthfury78:

This way Peter Parker x Mary Jane could have moved on with their lives raising baby Mayday Parker, who would have been over 5 years old in the comics. And Ben would still be Spider-Man and having Betty Brant as his girl friend instead of Flash Thompson

Is that supposed to be good? Not sure if i would like it.

:)

@joshmightbe said:

@darthfury78: Quesada Just doesn't like character development he just likes their personalities to remain exactly the same forever with no growth at all.

I disagree on the character development part. Yeah, it seems Pete's personality has remained the same since the beginning of BND but in other categories, Pete has changed a lot.

:)

#42 Posted by PowerHerc (80707 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, it would.

#43 Posted by darthfury78 (760 posts) - - Show Bio

@spidey 15 said:

@darthfury78:

This way Peter Parker x Mary Jane could have moved on with their lives raising baby Mayday Parker, who would have been over 5 years old in the comics. And Ben would still be Spider-Man and having Betty Brant as his girl friend instead of Flash Thompson

Is that supposed to be good? Not sure if i would like it.

:)

Regarding Peter x Mary Jane moving on with their lives, I implied that they could be part of the supporting cast. And Ben Reilly would be in a relationship with Betty Brant. At least we would see Mayday Parker grow up before our eyes. Although, if it were me, I would do a timeskip where Mayday Parker is a teenager working alongside her father and uncle in the family business.

#44 Posted by spidey 15 (17756 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthfury78: I find interesting what you are saying but in the way you want it to happen, wouldn't that mean that Peter should be the clone and Ben the real one, eventually? Wasn't that also the reason why clone saga was so hated?

:)

#45 Posted by darthfury78 (760 posts) - - Show Bio

@spidey 15 said:

@darthfury78: I find interesting what you are saying but in the way you want it to happen, wouldn't that mean that Peter should be the clone and Ben the real one, eventually? Wasn't that also the reason why clone saga was so hated?

:)

The best way to have resolved that matter was for Peter Parker(the alleged clone) to change his name to Ben Parker(Benjamin is his middle name), and for Ben Reilly to rename himself Peter Parker once again. That was how Marvel could have done that. And they could have created a proper backup story that would have allowed the original writer Gerry Conway to writer a follow-up story from where the first saga left off in the 1970's.

#46 Posted by spidey 15 (17756 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthfury78: I don't think by changing names, could actually solve anything. It's a good solution but stills, something would feel really wrong about it. At least that's how i would feel. I'm glad how things turned out. Even if we have stuff like OMD that its whole purpose was completely against to what fans want about spidey.

:)

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