From CBR - The Wrong Side

The Wrong Side: Black Cat vs. Sabretooth

In this feature, I examine comic book fights that were particularly notable in the wrong side winning (or at least that the fight wasn’t won the “right” way). This really isn’t a big deal, of course, as it doesn’t really matter if the “wrong” person won a fight. But it’s fun to talk about!

If you want to suggest a fight for future inclusion in this feature, drop me a line at bcronin@comicbookresources.com. Don’t suggest a fight in the comments!

This week, based on about a dozen suggestions, I’m featuring the time that the Black Cat kicked Sabretooth’s ass…

As always, the first page we look at their power levels and on the second page, we look at the fight itself.

Also, as always, we answer the age-old question – “How did they do when they fought Spider-Man?”

For a while there, Black Cat had “bad luck powers.” When she had “bad luck powers,” she was a threat to Spider-Man. But when she doesn’t, she isn’t. He could have beaten her pretty much any time during their first real battle in Amazing Spider-Man #195 (by Marv Wolfman, Keith Pollard and a bunch of inkers). He even kicked her butt while literally fighting her with only one good arm…

In Spectacular Spider-Man #116 (by Peter David, Rich Buckler and Bob McLoed), we learn that Sabretooth was trained as a killer by the mysterious Foreigner…

Say…wasn’t Foreigner created by writer Peter David? You don’t say!

Anyhow, he goes to take out the Black Cat, but Spider-Man gets in his way and Sabretooth gets his ass kicked so badly you’d think that the Wasp was in town…

Okay, anyhow, Sabretooth was introduced as an Iron Fist villain…

And he eventually fought against Iron Fist AND Power Man, along side his partner in crime, the Constricter. Sabretooth and Constricter, the REAL dynamic duo!

He actually only went after Black Cat because he and Constricter stopped being buds and Iron Fist and Power Man disappeared.

A couple of issues before he fought Black Cat, she gained new powers instead of her bad luck powers. She gained night vision and enhanced agility. But she did not gain super strength and she was still beaten soundly by the Foreigner…

Right after the fight we’re going to spotlight between Sabretooth and Black Cat (like, RIGHT after it), Sabretooth made his way to Uncanny X-Men where he became Wolverine’s greatest nemesis…

And he has given Wolverine a hard time ever since.

But how did he do against the Black Cat?

Remember, it is important to note that Sabretooth was much less famous at the time, but still, he held his own against Iron Fist, so this is still kind of embarrassing (and I’m not talking about Black Cat’s bizarre mid-80s shoulder pads)…

Suffice it to say that I don’t think a Black Cat without bad luck powers should be able to kick Sabretooth’s ass that easily.

Claremont hated this fight enough that he planned to reveal that all of Sabretooth’s fights before he met the X-Men were actually weaker clones created by Mister Sinister, but he never got around to it (read more about it in this old Comic Book Legends Revealed).

Okay, folks, if you want to see a particular fight spotlighted, drop me a line at bcronin@comicbookresources.com!

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@punyparker

@zarius

@amazingfantasy

@theheaven_guardian10

@animehunter: Τhat reminded me of her brief relationship with this stupid cat-like person i can't remember the name of.....GOD i hated that.

From Comicbook.com

These Cool Posters Highlight Marvel Characters

UK-based graphic designer Jason Stanley has created a series of minimalist poster designs of 8 Marvel Comics' characters.

Each poster features the silhouette of a Marvel character -- Captain America, Doc Ock, The Hulk, Iron Man, Spider-Man, The Punisher, Thor and Wolverine, their logo and a suitable background.

(via designfaves)

Check out our gallery below!

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@punyparker

@zarius

@amazingfantasy

^^^^^THIS^^^^^

I'm of the same opinion as animehunter here. Joe Kelly's "Grim Hunt" was certainly a highlight for me too.

Oh! and kudos to blackspidey2099 & punyparker. Despite our differences of opinion, at the end of the day we're all Spider-Man fans and this remains a great forum to continue celebrating that. :-)

@animehunter said:

From Comicbook.com

These Cool Posters Highlight Marvel Characters

UK-based graphic designer Jason Stanley has created a series of minimalist poster designs of 8 Marvel Comics' characters.

Each poster features the silhouette of a Marvel character -- Captain America, Doc Ock, The Hulk, Iron Man, Spider-Man, The Punisher, Thor and Wolverine, their logo and a suitable background.

(via designfaves)

Check out our gallery below!

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@punyparker

@zarius

@amazingfantasy

Great looking silhouettes. The Incredible Hulk looks a bit puny though. :-) Would be cool to see them tackle more worthwhile villains.

@punyparker: I don't mind reading other's thoughts and opinions. Not at all. But here's the thing with you and others on this site, you don't want to have a real discussion. You tell people that like Slott's writing or the new direction/status quo of Peter that they don't understand Peter and that they aren't real fans or must be new fans. That's not listening to the other person't ideas. If your response would be something like "if you like Slott that's cool, I'm not a fan but I'm not gonna downgrade your Spider-man fandom just because you like something I don't" the I would never mess with you on this board. But you can't do that. If someone likes something that you don't, you lessen them and their ability to understand Spider-man... like you have the market cornered. Others in your camp do the same thing. I can't remember who it is, and I don't care enough to go back and search, is so silly that he says the current Spider-man isn't even the real 616 Spider-man and he's some Spider-man from a different timeline because he doesn't like the direction of getting rid of the marriage. Because that's the direction the editors went, his marriage fandom is the alternate timeline. It's all just silly. It's just a fictional character. Chill and relax.

I never.Said that.To anyone.
And will never, EVER do.

So that's compeletely unfair.

But, again, i have lost all hope with you, man......you come of, saying all sorts of insulting stuff directed at me, then you say "Relax, ts'all good i'm trolling, chill", and i accept that and say that it is, indeed, all good, but then you continue sayin insulting stuff!.....there's a different between trolling, and what you do/did more frequently than now.

So yeah, i really don't care what you say, anymore.
You show up once in a month, splash your stingers, and go away.

@animehunter

@punyparker

Marvel's next event is Civil War II

Marvel To Publish Civil War 2 In Spring 2016

Posted October 5, 2015 by by Rich Johnston

Next year sees Captain America: Civil War.

We’ve just had a revival of Civil War under the Secret Wars event.

It’s not enough.

Retailer Ryan Higgins, of Californian comic store Comics Conspiracy got a postcard from Marvel.

So that’s Civil War 2 coming in the Spring of 2016, with Tony Stark fighting the new Captain America…

Unless it’s Doctor Doom under the armour, obviously.

why does civil war need a sequel? Civil war was awesome, it doesn't need a sequel though. Ugh "house of ideas"

@animehunter

@punyparker

4Chan's Scanbro has leaked ASM#1 early

@zarius: what?

prowler is going to pretend to be spidey? i don't think i like that

@punyparker: I want the samething you do bro so very very very very much.

Wow! so the goofy cheesiness remains very much intact. It all still sounds rather forced and terrible to me. Tried looking for the 4Chan leak but couldn't find it.

Anyway, one would've thought that naming a foundation after your uncle should include his name: Ben Parker. I wonder if Marvel made a sponsorship deal with Uncle Ben's Rice Company? :-)

@animehunter

@punyparker

@magnetic_eye

I went to bed before the scans were completed, but I did read spoiler chats on TV Tropes and learned of a few other things

That sounds even more pathetic then I thought it'd be.

Over in the newspapers...

Earlier in the arc MJ said there was only two weeks remaining until the play reopened and that the cruise was going to take that long. Well the cruise ended up being abandoned and now she's back on stage. Either the theatre reopened early to help take people's minds off the impending Atlantean crisis or we've had a time skip

@animehunter

Ok, wow........Marvel, you HAVE money.....and you will gain money from te movie, you don't have to be so dep

Peter is finally over his "noone dies" mentality, realizing it was an impossible goa

After reading the leaked copy, I think I can say this with all honesty, I no longer have any interest in what's happening in the ASM books any more.

Well done Slott, you have taken something that has been great and turned it into something even more less than mediocre,

and that's not including how you ruined two that my favourite characters, Black Cat & Mary Jane. I can only hope that Silk and Iron Man fixes what you did to them, although with Black Cat after what I read in that interview about her becoming worse really doesn't fill me with much hope.

You had something great with RYV and the only thing you bought over from it was in all consideration the weakest part of the whole book.

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@punyparker

@zarius

@amazingfantasy

After reading the leaked copy, I can honestly and wholeheartedly say with zero doubt in my mind; As long as Dan Slott is writing Spider-Man, I will not invest in it. As long as Dan Slott is writing him, I'm done with my favorite character of all time.

From DOUGLAS ERNST - DAN SLOTT: HYPOCRITE BEGS FOR LINKS AND FULL CONTEXT, THEN DENIES IT TO OTHERS AFTER OREGON SHOOTING

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@punyparker

@zarius

@amazingfantasy

Then i'm the "bad guy" who knows this won't be good....

@animehunter:I'm not very politically savy, but...yeah, that's very telling is'nt it? Dan tells others to take a running jump in the lake if they can't supply context, then that doesn't matter so long as it personally affects his political views. It's a coy little contradictory game he plays.

To be absolutely honest, i don't give an F, what he does in his personal life, or Twitter........i just don't like how he writes Spider-Man.

so i read the leaked copy and it was disappointing except for one thing

If regent is back, then maybe RYV peter and mary jane and annie could also come back

@amazingspiderman15 said:

so i read the leaked copy and it was disappointing except for one thing

If regent is back, then maybe RYV peter and mary jane and annie could also come back

Somehow, I highly doubt it

Here is an excerpt from the following CBR interview for the rest head here

From CBR

ZDARSKY & QUINONES BRING "HOWARD THE DUCK" BACK FOR MORE FOWL PLAY

If you're a down on your luck private detective in the Marvel Universe, you've got to be ready to follow a case to some pretty strange places -- like into outer space, or the den of villain that hypnotically transforms senior citizens into thieves, or into a pitched street battle between an alien invader and costumed heroes. In their recently completed volume of "Howard the Duck," writerChip Zdarsky and artist Joe Quinones took their lead duck to all of those places. Fortunately for Howard, he didn't have to go to there alone; he was accompanied on those cases by his new friend Tara Tam, a tattoo artist with no problem navigating the surreal and dangerous corners of the Marvel Universe thanks to the shape-shifting abilities she gained from eating alien-tainted food.

Zdarsky & Quinones Open "Howard the Duck" Investigations

This November, Zdarsky and Quinones bring Howard and Tara back for a new volume of "Howard the Duck" as part of All-New, All-Different Marvel that will once again find the fledgling gumshoes embarking on a whole new batch of weird, perilous and often silly adventures. CBR News spoke with Zdarsky about the new series, the cosmic adventure that kicks off the volume, Howard's team up with the Guardians of the Galaxy and the crucial role artist Joe Quinones plays in delivering the series' signature tone.

===

How are Howard and Tara when you pick things up with them in #1, which takes place after a time jump following the end of "Secret Wars"? Have things changed much for them since we last saw them, and are they interacting with any new supporting characters?

Tara's much more comfortable using her abilities now, which means she's more able to be thrown into crazier circumstances and revels in it. Howard, however, is at a low point. He legitimately feels like the universe is trying to kill him and is, frankly, growing tired of it.

And Aunt May has joined the cast! Howard clearly needed an office administrator, so she's come on to help out when she's in town from Boston. We're spending a fair amount of time in space for this volume, though, so we don't get to utilize her as much as I'd hoped. We also have Joe's cat Biggs in the office as a half-cat, half-robot, because Joe's cat is the best and we're drunk with low-level power.

Head here for the rest of the interview....

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@punyparker

@zarius

@amazingfantasy

@animehunter: i doubt it also but I really hope RYV pete, mary and annie all come back, maybe when marvel said RYV is a building block for the new universe they meant Regent will become a main stay spidey villain.

While I do doubt I am like you, I want RYV Pete, Mary and Annie to appear, but also to replace what Slott created, so that they become the main book.

Agreed, they should be the main book and have a different writer.

Oh, Most DEFINITELY a different writer.

Oh wow, I missed stuff huh. LOL

@punyparker Sorry for the delay mate, I've been busy! I can sit down now, so let me finally answer you.

1- Thanks, man. And no worries, have no doubt that you can always have a polite discussion with me. :)

2- Sure, I get what you're saying there. That's fair.

My view is much like @blackspidey2099's when he said that it doesn't make any sense for Peter to struggle to get job. Allow me to elaborate a little.

His intellect is often compared to the likes of Richards and Stark. But he always lacked... Pretty much everything. Time, resources, and experience. Now he has all of those, so we can finally see what he's truly capable of. And hey, I love Spider-Girl and her universe, same for RYV, but I just can't see Peter settling for "just" a photographer, or working for the police, it never made sense for me. I mean, it did made sense on the beginning. He was just a kid, he needed money, etc. But when he's at it for 13+ years it just becomes beyond silly imo. Peter has always loved science. He gets lots and lots of money. He's now able to help more people than ever. I honestly don't see anything wrong. There's really no disadvantages, and it's a believable path for him.

Getting more into it, some people/heroes/villians/whatever often look down on him, think he's a joke, weak, loser, etc.

But we know that he's the greatest hero of all. We know that the nanosecond he's serious/pissed, you better run. We know that he can get hot chicks, hell, he's like a magnet to them. And of course, he married a supermodel... So in the end we can always say "Okay, he got screwed there, but we already saw and know what he's capable of".

But that's one thing we never saw the full extent of. And that we barely had seen before Big Time, since we're on that. I wanna see more and more of it, personally.

And I agree on Horizon Labs, but I have no problem with this status quo either. Since we're on that, Slott has proved that he can explore Peter's intellect well in these stories. Hell, I think he's the one who explored it the most.

If you want me to, I can go even further, but it's pretty much this for me.

3- I partially agree.

Also, I think this is kinda of the point. I'm almost certain that Slott said that because it's a position that he never was before it will lead to interesting stories, something like that. That means he will explore Peter not being used to this kinda of stuff. Slott also has a history with putting Peter as a leader and/or positions that he's not used to. Big Time, Spider-Island, Ends of Earth, etc. Even RYV, though it's an alternate Peter.

And I'd say it's not OOC in the same way that, like, Peter cheating on MJ would be. Like I said before, it's a believable path.

4- I can see why you think that way, sure. Not much I can say here, so this brings me to perhaps the biggest point of all, that I've been wanting to say. It all comes down to personal preference. I've seen, not just here, but people around the web that don't like that Peter is in a global level now. Sure, yeah, that's fair and I can understand why they think like that. Or, like people here have been saying, they simply don't like Slott's writing. That's fine too. Meanwhile there's people like me and others that DO like it. It all comes down to opinion.

I also have the writers that I'm not a fan of, books that I dropped (SSM included), etc. Hell, I dropped the whole marvel non-spideyverse to this day.

I understand your points and I hope you understood mine, even if we don't agree on the current direction of this book. So as long as we (I mean everyone here) don't disrespect each other, It's all good.

5- No prob at all.

So, in conclusion, and to add a few extra points:

I'm also a huugeee Iron Man fan, he's my favorite marvel character that isn't from the spideyverse, so I guess these kinda of stories appeal to me more.

I haven't seen the leaked issue, I'll wait until tomorrow, so I can't really say anything about it for now.

Finally, I didn't read all the talk you guys had, but I guess we can conclude that, in the end, it's all about opinion, correct? We're all spidey fans here. ;)

PS: Sorry about the long post. :p

@animehunter said:

Sorry you feel that way, mate.

There's some hope with MJ I guess, but I think if/when Black Cat reverts it will be at ASM book, not Silk's. So that might take a while, unfortunately.

And about that last part, I haven't read the leaked issue but I guess I know what you're talking about... *sigh* We're in agreement on this one.

No worries, i can finally stop crying. :P

1. Good.BTW for a long time, i thought you had Nightwing on your avatar....now i see it's May holding a baby.Weird how things turn out.
2. Sure, i get it, and it's rational, and to be honest, i would be interested in this, if someone else rather than Slott would write.....because Slott already DID the "rich Parker" gig, and DID the "Parker Industries" gig too.And i know how he writes.And i know on what he's depending when he's writing.I didn't like it, and i don't like it.
3. Spider-Island is an awful idea.I'm sorry.
   The genuinelly good story idea, and original at the time, was Big Time.I always gave props to Slott about this particular story.
4. We basically don't agree on the main writer stuff, as you can see......that this direction, done properly, would be a cool idea, but with this writer helming the series, with his immature writing, and character handling, it's inevetable for me not to look at it with a "good" eye.

@punyparker:

Haha yeah my avatar it's May and Benjy. ;)

I didn't mean Spider-Island quality (tho I do like it :p), just mentioned as an example of Slott putting Peter in unsual/important positions.
And yeah Big Time is pretty cool, it was also one my first Spidey stories.

I see, I see.
Your problem is pretty much the same one I have with Bendis, I get how ya must feel. Good concept, but bad execution by the writer, correct?

Now i understand......my first Spider-Man issue is Ultimate Spider-Man #4, and from there on, Bendis is my fav writer.
It sticks to your brain.

Yes, but Bendis has a good execution, his dialog is excellent.
His concepts are weak, sometimes.

Amazing Spider-man #1 was really good. I loved the addition of The Prowler it is cool that he is working for peter as a decoy Spider-man and it is good to see the Horizon labs team again, especially since now they are Woking with peter at Parker Industries. The issue was a little shaky in the middle put it picked up quickly. I can't wait for Issue #2

@punyparker: One of the firsts, bro. I'm past the bias phase. :p

My actual first was a randow Web of Spider-Man vol 2 storyline. And the first issue of Death of Spider-Man too, I bought them the same day.

Click for a fun backstory:

And eh. Bendis used to be my favorite too, now I really dislike most of his work. Since we're on that Slott isn't my favorite either, I just like, again, most of his work. :)

I still like Bendis, but I can't stand him on team books. It's just not his area.

I loved ASM #1! After the mostly horrible run on ASM vol. 3, this looks like Slott is getting in the zone. I loved the part where Peter just threw the fact that he cured the Zodiac poison like it was nothing. And it's definitely cool that Peter is limiting his salary - it's something he certainly would do, and is a great touch from Slott. I didn't particularly like the "poor man's Tony Stark" comparisons, especially considering that Peter is smarter than him, but whatever. Considering it seemed to refer to Peter limiting his earnings, I'm okay with that.

Only 3 things: "Uncle Ben Foundation"? Seriously? It should probably be the "Ben Parker Foundation" but whatever.

Second - the fly joke? Seriously? We already had a naked joke in ASM vol. 3 #1...

The third thing is the biggy. Doc Ock turned good!!! Why the hell is he suddenly evil? (Unless I am misinterpreting it). I guess a Spidey vs. Doc Ock worldwide battle would be cool, but it was already kind of done in Ends of the Earth. Anyways, if Ock, or anything for that matter, ruins Peter's success, I will never forgive Slott. If Slott handles it well and has Peter beating Ock in a hard battle but without suddenly becoming poor again, or losing the company, that will be awesome to see though. Let's see what happens...

The other tie-in/spin-off stories weren't great though. And of course, we got to see Bendis wank his Miles again. Couldn't he have at least waited till his first issue? Does Miles have to be "Super Weak Hero with Invincible Venom Blast"? God. I remember back when I thought Miles was kinda cool...

You sound like a clickbait site.

"BRAD PITT IS GAY!!!!!.......(click for the full story)"

Why, and why?

I mean, you just CAN'T deny he handles characters and especially dialog miles better than Slott does.......

@blackspidey2099: maybe you know this, why does a kid with spider powers also have laser beam powers too? I don't get miles power set.

Heh, Miles. (am I the only one who sees the pun?).

I think I will deny. Sure, his dialog is netter on average, but he has no clue how to handle characters (Miles oneshotting everyone with Venom Stings, Peter the stupid comic relief guy in Avengers, Venom the cosmic hero, etc.). I think Slott's character work is a little better, and Slott's plots completely dominate Bendis.

Just Bendis and his wanking.

@animehunter New Spidey article on Marvel.com http://marvel.com/news/comics/25233/amazing_spider-man_goes_global

"Bendis wank his Miles again"? Bendis wasn't involved with anything in this book. Dan Slott and Christos Gage were credited as the writers for Miles' part; "The Cellar".

@punyparker: I agree with everything @blackspidey2099 said.

But about the dialogue I must add that I dislike Bendispeak so much. lol Seriously, it bugs me to no end.

That being said when he goes into deep stuff (serious/emotionals talks), he does it well.

Pun acknowledged.
I'm happy with myself.

1. To be fair, Miles is his character....whatever he does, is IN character, if it's written by him....
2. I agree with you about Peter on the Avengers book....
3. Not like anyone was doing anything with Venom......(same thing with MJ)
4. Some of Slott's plots yeah, sure, have said it multiple times that Slott's problem is his dialog, his strong point is plotting.But no, his character handling is not good.Felicia, Mary Jane.....well, maybe female characters.
   Except Peter.
   For me, he doesn't write Peter well.
   It's no surprise that his best work on Spider-Man was when Peter wasn't in the book. (Superior)

And if you go ahead and tell me that he understands Peter, by mentioning responsibility every 3rd issue, that's not character understanding.

@blackspidey2099: There is no wanking. Miles is simply dat powerful.

... :p

Seriously though, like @amazingspiderdan said, it was Slott/Cage who wrote that.

Something I can live with, since Ox really isn't all that and Venom Blast has hurt Peter, and Slott already made Miles lose to Puma. Everyone was also kicking ass in this issue, so there's that.

But it's exactly THIS kinda of stuff that I don't want to see when Miles' books gets here. Just him pwning Peter's villians like they're nothing.

Oh well. We all know Bendis is going to do it by the first or second issue anyway, and you can't really blame Slott or Gage too much for following Bendis' lead, especially as it is his character. (BTW, it is really funny that your username contains "Dan" Slott when you are one of his biggest critics here - no offense or anything).

Yeah, he can write well at times, but he has so little grasp of character or plot (for the most part) that he alienates almost everyone. I definitely did enjoy his "Death of Spider-Man" story, and USM was pretty good too.

And while we're on the topic of first Spider-Man stories, my first one was the JMS one with Shathra. I think it was "When the Stars Turn Cold" or something to that effect.

EDIT: It was actually "Until the Stars Turn Cold" (I got the whole TPB, so I don't have a "first issue" per say).

So you like cheesy, sometimes 70s dialog, Slott produces?.....i mean "Crazy town banana pants!" .....Jesus Christ, no.

My dialog expert is Fraction, anyway, but i just say, Bendis gets Spider-Man, if we talk Spider-Man specifically.