From Bleeding Cool
Fanboy Rampage: Dan Slott Vs. Andrew Wheeler And The Rest Of Twitter
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@richjohnston No @bleedingcool article yet on Slott's Roosevelt quote and subsequent Twitter kerfuffle? I am shocked and saddened.
— Wags (@Prowags) August 1, 2015
Well, Prowags we like to let the conversation actually play out first, maybe conclude, at least see where it goes before we consider running something like that. Also, I was a bit busy.
@richjohnston Holy crap! @DanSlott just blocked me for asking @bleedingcool to do an article on his Twitter debacle last night. Harsh!
— Wags (@Prowags) August 1, 2015
Yeah, sorry about that.
So what went down? Well, Marvel EIC Axel Alonso seemed to state on Friday that the Marvel character of Hercules, now getting his own ongoing series and believed to be bisexual after a certain funeral scene, in which his ex-lovers appeared to include Northstar, was straight. Me, I always saw Hercules as a Greek God and thereby pretty much omnisexual. But there you go.
This received considerable criticism on-line, especially in comparison to DC Comics’ approach to such character representation, and even more especially when it dovetailed into other criticisms made against Marvel for the lack of black writers being employed by the publisher.
Amazing Spider-Man writer, Dan Slott, defended his editor-in-chief with a Teddy Roosevelt quote that he has now removed. But still exists, in a longer form in a Youtube video in animated bear form that he posted five years ago.
Which basically seemed to state that Axel is doing a tough job, and it’s easy to carp from the sidelines.
So there was considerable emotionally-fuelled reaction to this. Including from ex-Bleeding Cool writer and current Comics Alliance editor-in-chief and Eisner Award winner for Comic Book Journalism, Andrew Wheeler. Here are select smatterings of that conversation. Those that haven’t been deleted, that is.
@Wheeler That Caesar your talking about isn't a Roman born senator. He's from the outside and has made great strides giving others a chance.
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) July 31, 2015
@Wheeler No one is saying "stifle" your voice. I'm saying his job is a damn hard one & it's a lot easier to pick at it then it is to do it.
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) July 31, 2015
@Leask@Wheeler I'm not saying "everybody be quiet", I'm saying doing that job is a hell of a lot harder than complaining about it.
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) July 31, 2015
So what did Dan want people to do?
You want to DO something to fix the problem? SUPPORT diverse creators at the register when their books come out. That will get it done.
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) July 31, 2015
@Doigbag They do. And when the market doesn't support them that sends a message as well.
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) July 31, 2015
One of the best things fans DID to promote diversity at Marvel: Supporting the hell out of MS. MARVEL and its creative & editorial team.
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) July 31, 2015
So, buy books like Ms Marvel. But how were books greenlit in the first place, if not the realisation that there was a vocal audience that might buy it? The kind that were criticising Axel Alonso now? Andrew Wheeler said it succinctly.
@Wheeler MS MARVEL happened cause editor Sana Amanat pushed for it. The book was great! And fan support (like w/ all comics) gave it power!
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
@Wheeler Not really. You're adding context that you WANT to be there. Sana was passionate about doing that book. That's why it happened.
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
But as t Axel working really hard as EIC…
@Leask@CCCrossley@Wheeler He can do that AND help produce the most successful Muslim American super hero comic, and run one of the most-
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
@Leask@CCCrossley@Wheeler -diverse editorial teams in mainstream comics, and promote many diverse characters. It's a tough job and I think
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
@Leask@CCCrossley@Wheeler he's doing much more than a lot of people on the internet give him credit for. I think that's a fair statement.
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
But others saw it differently.
@24panels I'm not being dismissive. I'm being honest. Marvel's making great strides in diversity– on editorial, with creators, in the books
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
@24panels Are those strides coming quick as everyone would like? No. And I'm IN that boat too! I'm saying– The guy's got a DAMN hard job.
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
We were getting that. Some just didn’t see that as a relevant point. But there were other issues to consider, such as the reaction by some to 1872‘s portrayal of Red Wolf.
@Leask@CCCrossley@Wheeler And that 1 book that offends you isn't ALL of Marvel. It doesn't wipe out CAPTAIN MARVEL, YOUNG AVENGERS, et al.
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
It was pointed out that Young Avengers was no longer being published.
@Leask@CCCrossley@Wheeler I'm not downplaying how much that specific comic hurt you. In as much as I work for Marvel, I apologize that a
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
@Leask@CCCrossley@Wheeler comic made you feel that way. It seems we've reached a point where we're not having any kind of productive talk
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
As if to underline that…
@Wheeler@Leask@CCCrossley Wow. Nice spin. That was some good Internet-Fu.
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
But Dan had made one deletion.
Yes, I deleted the Roosevelt quote. The intent was NOT to stifle criticism, but to point out stepping in to do a tough job is SO much harder
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
And he had concerns as how people might now interpret his upcoming work which, it seems, will touch on these points in Amazing Spider-Man #1.
Please note: ASM #1 was plotted on 5/7. Cause there are characters & scenes where you'll think I've pandered to those I've ticked off today.
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
We’ll bear that in mind, Dan… as to the level hardship, Andrew wanted to make a comparison.
No, it's not. Of course it's not. https://t.co/59ElFsoTR7
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
.@Wheeler But being an editor who HAS promoted diversity in their line, their staff, and their hires, WHILE running the #1 company IS hard.
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
It was a point he had previously made. Some still didn’t find it relevant to the point.
@Wheeler There are a lot of people in my feed who have contested that.
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
@Wheeler Agreed.
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
Dan did want to clarify his thoughts about diversity in comics, however.
If your walk away from any of my tweets is that you think I DON'T believe there should be diversity in comics, you couldn't be more wrong.
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
Of course there should be more diversity with characters, creators, & staff. That's a given. There should be more diversity in all things.
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
And he did want to address Andrew’s comparisons.
@Wheeler@Leask@CCCrossley I see a company moving in the right direction. Could it move faster? Yes. But these aren't evil people, Andrew.
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
As to the creation of the Ms Marvel comic and the role of the editor in creating that book, it was still up for discussion.
@Wheeler That's different from what you said earlier. Earlier you were saying it was because of "vocal critics". You're using semantics now-
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
@Wheeler -and while that makes you an excellent debater, I'm not really interested in "scoring points" on this issue. It's weird, because-
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
@Wheeler -we're both coming from the same place. We both want there to be more diverse books/characters/creators/staff in comics.
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
Dan then decided to write a little more at length.
@Wheelerhttp://t.co/9Zog9Wlcfk
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
As well as underlining his active role in creating stories that did that.
@24panels@salgood Well, I've been introducing characters of all races, religions, & orientations in my books & working w/ diverse creators.
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
But the choice of words and tone were very much in dispute.
@Wheeler That's completely fair. I feel w/ that rawness also comes little chance of us discussing this in a way that does anything other-
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
@Wheeler -than stir more of those raw feelings around. I don't know what either of us could add or come to agreement on. And I DO agree w/
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
@Wheeler you on the core problem here. But that's getting lost in me being a stand-in (or representative) of the thing you want to debate.
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
And the Teddy Roosevet quote was still a problem for some, regarding the Hercules decision.
@MagnetoAgenda Not "writing", but the duties he has to perform. It's a tough job, but one that he HAS used to be a champion for diversity–
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
@MagnetoAgenda –and this was a case where the company could have done better. I agree.
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
Which was an admission missing previously, and certainly an interesting one.
@MagnetoAgenda Totally understandable. Just the danger of social media– that becomes an overwhelming, roaring tidal wave VERY quickly.
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
And there was more reason and understanding in the air.
I have NOT blocked anyone today. Yet someone says I did And that I blocked them BECAUSE they're gay. Really?! Thanks, Internet. Good night.
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
Well some, anyway.
@FemmesinFridges@elevenafter@bairfanx Jesus. Could you at least link to the exchange instead of paraphrasing and misinterpreting?
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
And there was discussion regarding how previous discussions were being interpreted.
@FemmesinFridges@elevenafter@bairfanx Thank you for ALSO showing where I took it down, explained why, and the times I apologized.
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
@FemmesinFridges Ms. Marvel came about because Sana was passionate about it and wanted to do it. That's how and why that book came about.
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
So there was still some underling to do.
@FemmesinFridges@elevenafter@bairfanx It'd be nice if you'd ALSO point out the MANY times I agreed about the need for greater diversity.
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
@FemmesinFridges@elevenafter@bairfanx It'd also be nice if you could point out the many times when I said Marvel needed to do more.
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
@FemmesinFridges@elevenafter@bairfanx But none of that makes for good "Did you see what this guy said" internet gossip.
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
I dunno it’s pretty good where I’m sitting. But Dan was clearly under stress from all sides.
@elevenafter@FemmesinFridges@bairfanx Sorry. Coming off of a different set of tweets where I'm branded a homophobe. Great, right?
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
Yeah, it can be a downer. But it wasn’t all bad…
@DanSlott well, ya haven't blocked me and I'm a screamin' queen
— Joe Glass (@josephglass) August 1, 2015
MWAH! (Thanks for that! Okay, NOW I can go to sleep.) https://t.co/USXtOoeVw4
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
Always good to have Bleeding Cool contributor Joe Glass getting a kiss from Dan Slott. But there was still much to discuss with the internet.
@FemmesinFridges I'm not saying you're NOT allowed to talk to your friends. But I think we all agree: It's not fun to be misrepresented. :-)
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
@d_m_elms@elevenafter@FemmesinFridges@bairfanx Dee, you've had twitter convos w/ me in the past. Have I or have I not listened to you?
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
And there did seem some steps towards reconciliation.
@Nick_Hanover@FemmesinFridges@elevenafter@bairfanx Already in this thread things've been put in a more accurate context. How is that bad?
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
And coming to terms with everything everyone was saying.
@Nick_Hanover@FemmesinFridges@bairfanx End of the day, like most people, I want more diversity in the books, staff, and creators.
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
And exactly where it might end.
@FemmesinFridges True. It's a lose-lose. A person w/ over a thousand followers putting words into your mouth that you never said– or THIS.
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
And there was slow realisation from all sides.
@DanSlott I mean, yeah, you slip up and everyone's on you, but a lot of times the people "on you" just want ppl to know they're hurt
— Magneto rambles (@MagnetoAgenda) August 1, 2015
Although there was more internet reality to deal with.
Wanna live in a Twitter-world where when you talk w/ people & your opinion becomes more clear it's called "progress" and not "backtracking".
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
And there was an emerging closeness of opinion..
@Wheeler I agree! The incredible support fans showed Ms. Marvel is WHY more diverse titles are coming out of Marvel. I made that same point.
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
But then something unexpected happened.
I yield. There are things I can't argue about from a place of privilege. Stupid problem to complain about. When other voices have it worse.
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
@Wheeler If you want to take this to direct message, I am wholly at your disposal.
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 1, 2015
Okay. Time to hack Wheeler’s Twitter account… I think his password is still “wobble”.
But this morning? Possibly after said discussion? A full apology…
An apology to any & all LGBTQ readers and fellow geeks and fans. I screwed up. I was so focused on seeing a (cont) http://t.co/tB4PcQWIqw
— Dan Slott (@DanSlott) August 2, 2015
Which ends up with “I screwed up. And I am genuinely sorry.”
Sometimes apologies aren’t instant. Sometimes the desire to defend oneself is strong, we all see ourselves as the hero in our own story. Sometimes an apology takes time, as realisation takes a while to set in. I know that of old…
Fanboy Rampage was a blog by Graeme McMillan dedicated to the funniest, most ludicrous and most inappropriate comic book back-and-forths online. McMillan has moved on now, becoming a proper journalist for the likes of The Hollywood Reporter and Wired but he gave permission to Bleeding Cool to revive his great creation. Feel free to suggest your own observed spots of online excess.
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