Should Spidey reveal his identity to the Horizon Labs scientists?

#1 Posted by danhimself (22718 posts) - - Show Bio

Think about all the things that Horizon Labs could do to help Spider-man if they only knew his secret identity. They're already helping him a ton as it is and the resources there have already helped Peter a ton to. So I've got to think that with all of the members of the Think Tank on board and focusing on helping Spider-man then he'd be one of the best superheroes on the planet. Your thoughts?

#2 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29510 posts) - - Show Bio

Given the issue that came out today, I'd really like it if Grady found out, but kept it secret. I'd like individual stories where they all find out, but keep it secret from each other... and eventually it all blows up in Pete's face. But it doesn't have to be a bad thing, it can just a be a "Wait... YOU knew too!?" thing. I mean, he's working with super geniuses, and the OMIT "they can't figure it out" plot thread was very visibly (and, thankfully) demolished.

#3 Posted by Superguy0009e (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

nah, you cant trust everyone that goes in and out. In one story, Karen Page (his ex gf) revealed his identity to a pimp to get cash for drugs, that info makes it to kingpin. telling one person is dangerous enough, telling an entire company would be worse

#4 Posted by danhimself (22718 posts) - - Show Bio

@Superguy0009e said:

nah, you cant trust everyone that goes in and out. In one story, Karen Page (his ex gf) revealed his identity to a pimp to get cash for drugs, that info makes it to kingpin. telling one person is dangerous enough, telling an entire company would be worse

that was Daredevil....I'm not talking about the entire company either...I'm just talking about the 7 lead scientists

#5 Posted by Superguy0009e (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself: even then, you dont know how everyone would react and treat the info, it is too unreliable/dangerous.

saying that, if he could only tell one or two of them, that would be fine

#6 Posted by Death Certificate (5408 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe or just keep it between him and Grady

#7 Posted by Baron_BJ (120 posts) - - Show Bio

If I recall from Spider-Island one of the 7 lead scientists is actually in league with the kingpin and selling him stuff under the table, like the blueprints for the psychic spider barrier device (that's not its name, but you know what I refer to); so telling the other lead scientists would be an incredibly bad idea, not to mention that one or two of the scientists just plain don't like Peter.

#8 Posted by WarMachineMarkV (1214 posts) - - Show Bio

- How often does giving away your secret ID work out well...rarely

#9 Posted by CATPANEXE (9357 posts) - - Show Bio

Despite the opinions, not facts put in his bio here, I believe Max already figured it out, but is respecting that Peter isn't willing to reveal it so he won't bring it to light fully either and resolves to act as if he thinks Peter is " helping " Spider-man. I thought it was heavily implied when I read it anyways. (seriously people, I'm pretty sure bios are to be filled with technical information about the characters only, not our opinions or perhaps misinterpretations of the writers abilities?). In my opinion, really, the whole idea of hiding the fact that your a super-villain target from the people your involving in your own personal danger, and letting them have a heads up so they can be prepared for any incoming threats on your own behalf is probably both a little wiser and more noble.

#10 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29510 posts) - - Show Bio

@CATPANEXE said:

Despite the opinions, not facts put in his bio here, I believe Max already figured it out, but is respecting that Peter isn't willing to reveal it so he won't bring it to light fully either and resolves to act as if he thinks Peter is " helping " Spider-man. I thought it was heavily implied when I read it anyways. (seriously people, I'm pretty sure bios are to be filled with technical information about the characters only, not our opinions or perhaps misinterpretations of the writers abilities?). In my opinion, really, the whole idea of hiding the fact that your a super-villain target from the people your involving in your own personal danger, and letting them have a heads up so they can be prepared for any incoming threats on your own behalf is probably both a little wiser and more noble.

Max couldn't have figured it out due to the OMIT spell. He genuinely thought Pete was just helping Spider-man.

#11 Posted by CATPANEXE (9357 posts) - - Show Bio

@InnerVenom123: The OMIT spell was no longer in effect, Dr.Strange explained that at the end of Spider-Island in #773. It had been null for some time.

#12 Posted by Baron_BJ (120 posts) - - Show Bio

@CATPANEXE said:

@InnerVenom123: The OMIT spell was no longer in effect, Dr.Strange explained that at the end of Spider-Island in #773. It had been null for some time.

The spell was still in effect when he came to the conclusion that Peter was helping Spider-Man, and then during Spider-Island he saw peter beside Kaine (who was in the Spider-Man costume) which would have only solidified this conclusion.

#13 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29510 posts) - - Show Bio

@CATPANEXE said:

@InnerVenom123: The OMIT spell was no longer in effect, Dr.Strange explained that at the end of Spider-Island in #773. It had been null for some time.

The spell didn't wear off until after Spider-Island. Max's realization was before.

#14 Posted by CATPANEXE (9357 posts) - - Show Bio

Sorry I beg to differ. Mephisto's spell was clearly laid out as was it's effect. Anyone who knew at the point Mephisto cast it which was just after Civil War, would no longer know. The part Mephisto didn't allude to was that it didn't cover those who would discover his identity. The Jackal already knew who Peter was prior to Infestation. if the spell was in effect, he wouldn't have been able to.

#15 Posted by Dernman (15797 posts) - - Show Bio

@CATPANEXE said:

Sorry I beg to differ. Mephisto's spell was clearly laid out as was it's effect. Anyone who knew at the point Mephisto cast it which was just after Civil War, would no longer know. The part Mephisto didn't allude to was that it didn't cover those who would discover his identity. The Jackal already knew who Peter was prior to Infestation. if the spell was in effect, he wouldn't have been able to.

While I tend to agree with you that doesn't explain why the Fantastic Four forgot. When they knew before Civil War. Chock it up to writers mistake then?

#16 Edited by CATPANEXE (9357 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dernman: The spell was cast after Civil War. Unless that's a typo? If they knew before they wouldn't have known once the spell was cast since it was after his unmasking.

#17 Posted by Dernman (15797 posts) - - Show Bio

@CATPANEXE: Actually looking back and rereading I believe I just misread what you wrote. :p

#18 Posted by CATPANEXE (9357 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dernman: Misreading is allowed. Noting it again, this all my pinion and how I read it. I've had this discussion more times then I can count. But the notion that the spell dithered out doesn't reason, rather that the catch was always there. Dr.Strange's words have to be taken with a grain of salt as well of course, as he and the history laid out in OMIT was all part of Mephisto's hand wave over reality. Mephisto also cast a spell that made me go back and read OMD and BND for some reason as well...

#19 Posted by danhimself (22718 posts) - - Show Bio

@CATPANEXE said:

Sorry I beg to differ. Mephisto's spell was clearly laid out as was it's effect. Anyone who knew at the point Mephisto cast it which was just after Civil War, would no longer know. The part Mephisto didn't allude to was that it didn't cover those who would discover his identity. The Jackal already knew who Peter was prior to Infestation. if the spell was in effect, he wouldn't have been able to.

the spell didn't actually fail until during Spider-Island when Peter recorded himself using his abilities...the spell was set up so that no one would remember who he was or be able to learn his identity on their own unless they unmasked him or he unmasked himself...so going on the spell's rules he technically unmasked in front of everyone and that broke the spell....as far as the Jackal is concerned...I remember there being an issue where they explained how he knew but I can't remember the specifics off the top of my head....I think it had something to do with him having Peter's dna or something like that

#20 Edited by CATPANEXE (9357 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself:But the fact that the Jackal knew before still stands as evidence contrary to the notion. Again, Dr.Strange never really cast the spell, he was part of the illusion itself as was everyone else. That was just when Peter himself first discovered this as did Strange (some speculate that was actually Mephisto there as well, but it stands as speculation of course).

Like I said been here, and I'm standing personally on my observation. Which pretty much boils down to me that once Slott came on board, he looked at that OMIT stuff, knew it screwed up the fanbase love for ASM, knew it was a bad idea, and he gave it the middle finger. Case in point, Madame Web/Julia, fully aware of the fact that Peter is Spider-man in the Free Comic Book Day Edition, despite the supposed spell being in effect, long before SI (in fact the original Madame Web may have know this as well during Last Hunt, though I'm not up for digging right now)...

#21 Posted by muhabba (301 posts) - - Show Bio

Would't the spell have been broken when Pete revieled himself to the FF and then to the Avengers. He revieled himself to the FF when they were in the other universe and the Aveng.er while Osborn was still running his first set of Avengers

#22 Edited by Amanthine (79 posts) - - Show Bio

@CATPANEXE said:

@InnerVenom123: The OMIT spell was no longer in effect, Dr.Strange explained that at the end of Spider-Island in #773. It had been null for some time.

Wow... First of all you just skipped like a hundred issues of ASM, lol.

And second, Max can't "already" know. His realization was before Peter "broke" the ACTIVE portion of the psychic blindspot. If he thought about it again afterwards, then he can figure it out, but right now he has no reason to re-assess his previous assessment that Peter is just Spider-Man's sidekick. In other words, the psychic blindspot made him to firmly believe that Peter is not Spider-Man, so until another event comes along, there's no reason or opportunity for him to revisit the issue. There are instances from before Spider-Island where people would have discovered Peter was Spider-Man had the blindspot not been in effect, so if Peter breaking the blindspot is retroactive, ALL those people would've suddenly just realized, "Oh, Peter is Spider-Man,". The writers wouldn't do that (in fact I'm sure they'll make it a big deal every time someone knew discovers his identity), nor does it make any sense because Carlie was one of those people and she clearly "learned" from recent events that he is Spider-Man, and not suddenly remembered all those previous moments before SI where she should've found out. So for Max to know, Peter has to at least do something again that implicates him as Spider-Man, and this time without the active effects of the blindspot in place, Max can come to the right conclusion about Spider-Man's identity.

Anyone who has some sort of cosmic/deity ties is aware Peter Parker is Spider-Man, maybe not so obviously and readily as Madame Web, but they're capable of finding out (regardless of the events of Spider-Island). It only makes sense Madame Web knows he's Spider-Man because she can see the future and is connected to the Web of Life/Spider God/Agent of Chaos/Totem stuff that Peter is. Just like Mephisto knows he's Spider-Man, and everyone who is more powerful, or equal in power to Mephisto either already knows, or can learn regardless of when Peter broke the spell.

As for why the Jackal knows, it's because he made the clones. And the clones know because they're clones.

Also Max's bio is pretty accurate. I don't see what part of it is opinion or speculation. Most of it is from the storyline where Martha dies.

@muhabba said:

Would't the spell have been broken when Pete revieled himself to the FF and then to the Avengers. He revieled himself to the FF when they were in the other universe and the Aveng.er while Osborn was still running his first set of Avengers

The spell doesn't break when he reveals identity, the knowledge of him being Peter just rushes back to the person he's revealed himself to.

The spell only broke in SI because Peter told the world he was a spider man, but not the Spider-Man. So while no one experienced the rushing back of memories like the Fantastic Four did, people can start rediscovering his identity, if they had already known it prior to OMD, or just discovering it if they didn't.

#23 Edited by CATPANEXE (9357 posts) - - Show Bio

@Amanthine: Right, so the Jackal was able to know before the point, as was Bruce Banner. The rest of that is a bit of interjection. Equal to Mephisto? Which issue is this stated again, specifically? Madame Web gets a special pass? Sorry but again I stand. It either is in place the whole time or it isn't, if The Sorcerer Supreme wasn't able to get through it that sort of cancels the web of life pass since he's connected to everything. Dr.Strange is the one who mentioned the blind spot. Dr.Strange also thinks he established the spell and many other things, which he actually didn't thanks to Mephisto in OMIT. You missed the point on Slott I'm afraid. Like I said, had this discussion more times than I can count, and I stand on mine but entitle you to yours.

#24 Edited by Amanthine (79 posts) - - Show Bio

I didn't read whatever that issue is, but that doesn't directly show Bruce knowing Peter, either. In fact, that bubble right before suggest quite the opposite.

Anyway, the Jackal is an anomaly. If the Clones are to know, then the Jackal must know. He knows who he clones and why he clones them, he must remember. Madame Web is in the same boat with the mystical stuff.

As for the equal to Mephisto bit, that is just logic. Mephisto can't simply permanently affect those more powerful than him. To say the psychic blindspot has any effect on the Tribunal or TOAA is just plain wrong. Especially if you consider the spell is a combination of the skills of three mortals, even under Mephisto's agency.

Dr. Strange deliberately made himself forget, it was one of the most concerning issues for the three when creating and executing the spell.

And no, the spell obviously has... "loopholes" but as a mechanism, both as part of the continuity/MU and for the writers, it works in general. There hasn't yet been any reason to think Max gets a pass like Web, Jackal and the Clones. He has no ties to Peter like they do. If it wasn't in effect, everyone else would've learned/remembered right alongside Max, but they didn't. So the blindspot is working to some capacity, and Max isn't the kind of character to be counted among the privileged immune to its effects.

Like I said, Peter's stunt during SI and the consequent "breaking" of the spell wasn't retroactive. So unless Max has Peter on his mind afterwards and saw something that implicates him again as Spider-Man, Max still thinks he's Spider-Man's sidekick.

He didn't know before SI, he can find out after SI.

Besides, him learning before Cooper just craps all over her moment.

#25 Edited by CATPANEXE (9357 posts) - - Show Bio

@Amanthine: Uh-huh. Sorry no sale. But your free to your POV like I said. But simple math, either others, Mr.Negative is also in this number BTW, did, or didn't know him as Peter before the incident, which they did. As well, you have no understanding of OMIT, I'm sorry. Dr.Strange did nothing, nor did he execute the spell. If he did then Mephisto did not, again, simple math. OMIT was the actual historical rewrite/retcon done by Mephisto over everyone. That was all his handiwork, not unlike Scarlet Witch creating the House Of M or when The Age Of X was illusion. Strange was just another pawn, and just as unaware of what was really happening, and still is unaware of what really did, hence why even he really doesn't know whats happening and why he gave what seemed like a possibility from his perspective then. This is what Mephisto does. He is the King Of Lies, and Lord Of Illusions. He also makes Faustian pacts, in other words, ones in which he doesn't hold up his end of the bargain because of the wording, and ones that don't protect ones identity from being learned like they seem to say technically. Peter Parker is the man who sold the world.The point after Spider-Island wasn't the moment Peters identity was able to be recognized, it was the point that he noticed it could and pointed it out to Strange who went with what Mephisto's new continuity had showed him. And it craps all over her moment yes, sure. It also proves characters could learn his identity beforehand, so does the Bruce thing. Your reasoning doesn't stand if you never read War Of The Hulks, it's just more interjection on your part. Bruce was off world at the time the spell was cast in Planet Hulk. Your making one case using things that were not said in the book and making another that cancels out the one you did prior. Which is half the reason I'm not sold, the other is the solid facts and math of it, which is undeniable. There's loopholes, yes, I know. Loopholes in which a character can learn Peters identity, and a few did. The fact that they did is what flaws what your trying to push. My theory that I stay on, Slott blew it off intentionally, and had every intention of letting it go, reminding that he wrote between issues before his full run and why we see Madame Web even pulling it off in FCBD ASM. The incident after SI was his wink to the reader, affirming that dreaded plot was toast, and the fact that he tossed off the effect of a story that was wove since OMD just shows how much he himself cared for it.

#26 Posted by WarMachineMarkV (1214 posts) - - Show Bio

- I say we just punch you-know-who for creating the stupid situation in the first place

#27 Edited by InnerVenom123 (29510 posts) - - Show Bio

@CATPANEXE said:

Sorry I beg to differ. Mephisto's spell was clearly laid out as was it's effect. Anyone who knew at the point Mephisto cast it which was just after Civil War, would no longer know. The part Mephisto didn't allude to was that it didn't cover those who would discover his identity. The Jackal already knew who Peter was prior to Infestation. if the spell was in effect, he wouldn't have been able to.

I hate to disagree, but Doctor Strange specifically states that the spell wore off because of events in Spider-Island.

#28 Edited by Amanthine (79 posts) - - Show Bio

With regards to Dan Slott's intentions: By ackowledging the blindspot is no longer in effect, he acknowledges it existed, he sets in stone that Max couldn't have discovered Spider-Man's identity prior to Spider-Island. Writers are liberal with plot devices like the blinspot, so there are exceptions. Max isn't one of them.

#29 Edited by InnerVenom123 (29510 posts) - - Show Bio

@Amanthine said:

With regards to Dan Slott's intentions: By ackowledging the blindspot is no longer in effect, he acknowledges it existed, he sets in stone that Max couldn't have discovered Spider-Man's identity prior to Spider-Island. Writers are liberal with plot devices like the blinspot, so there are exceptions. Max isn't one of them.

Which is basically my point.

This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Comic Vine users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.