Hey folks complaining, the only thing you can do to change it is to stop buying the book. If you're still buying it then you're telling Marvel you're gonna buy it regardless of what they do.
Spider-Man
Character » Spider-Man appears in 17241 issues.
Peter Parker was bitten by a radioactive spider as a teenager, granting him spider-like powers. After the death of his Uncle Ben, Peter learned that "with great power, comes great responsibility." Swearing to always protect the innocent from harm, Peter Parker became Spider-Man.
seems everyone is against superior spiderman...but
Hey folks complaining, the only thing you can do to change it is to stop buying the book. If you're still buying it then you're telling Marvel you're gonna buy it regardless of what they do.
How dare you use Logic while arguing with Fanboys :P
I'm not interested in reading about SpOck being a tool. I'm not interested in reading about Peter having to deal with the fallout of SpOck's shit. And I'm definitely not interested in reading ANOTHER damn reboot of the damn character.
In short. Spider-Man is dead, good job Slott.
This for me. I'm just waiting for the new warriors
Vocal minority. Most of the people I know at my LCS are reading the title and all of them like it. All news is bad news and all that. It just sticks out more than being positive to most people.
@frogdog: Of course, Spider-man is dead. And of course, we're waiting for some real action and a good plot in N.W. To be honest, I'll be following this comic book, only because I love Kaine.
: then why not just read Scarlet spider..this is the issue i take with Superior . Sorry but its guys like you that got Scarlet spider cancelled, Oh look otto doesn't follow the same code as peter, otto takes a step further by killing someone...need i mention Kaine gave carnage a god damn lobotomy, he tore the eye and arm off of someone to boot! I'd call that a darker move than shooting someone point blank, blinding an old man or killing allistar Smythe
You want a darker spiderman that didn't follow the same code as peter READ SCARLET SPIDER
You want to read a story of REDEMPTION READ SCARLET SPIDER
when has otto atoned for his past mistakes? and no standing over Peter's body swearing to be the Superior Spiderman DOES NOT COUNT
Yost is head and shoulders above Dan Slott when it comes to writing Spidermen, I'm sorry but your gimmick has run its damn course Mr.Slott and its time you pushed the reset button
The Scarlet Spider IS THE TRUE SPIDERMAN read the last issue and see how Kaine has become more like Peter than otto has
I read a bit of scarlet spider, and your..... ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, kaine is by far my favourite spider, them agent venom, then SpOck, i love the theme of "monsters" and the no holding back, like when he taught those werewolves a lesson, but at the same time i like superior because he finally does things that alot of readers wanted peter to do, to let go a bit, to use his intellect etc
I'm reading SSM for free out of curiosity. My cousin who doesn't mind this inferior version of Spider-Man comes around and tries to convince me about how good it is. All I can say is I'm glad I'm not wasting a single cent on it.
I don't like every movie I go to see or every book I read. IMO, SSM is no different.
I'm just going to say it Chris Yost is by far a better writer than Dan Slott . He can respond to this if he likes I truly dont give a flying F$%^ anymore. It just drives me nuts that people buy Superior for a darker Spiderman story WHEN WE ALREADY HAD ONE! FFS how could Marvel greenlight this idea when Scarlet Spider was just getting its feet wet. I picked up Scarlet Spider issue 1 first day due to the tagline
All the powers none of the responsibility..
Dock ock hmm with great power comes great responsibility...lets see now hes almost let MJ die in a fire, hes going to use aunt may as a test dummy, he created a huge huge huge chaos due to him publicly outing Phil as the hobgoblin,taken it upon himself to appear as doc ock and intimidate someone for his own goals, blackmailed JJJ into funding his Spider Island and Spider army
Sounds like a really responsible person living upto Peter's ideals let alone the ones he set for himself in asm 700
Kaine story of Redemption "great powers greater responsibility"
ock story of Revenge "all the power none of the responsibility"
I'm amazed at how many people are "against" Superior Spider-Man.
They're so against it...
...that for the past 10 months, it's appeared in the Top 10 more than any other Marvel ongoing title.
...and Marvel's sold enough Superior Spider-Man posters that they put out a 2nd one... and recently a 3rd.
...and multiple mini-mates and (upcoming) action figures.
...and high sales in digital comics.
...and trade collections.
So if people are really against it, why are they hanging posters of it on their walls, putting action figures of it up on their shelves, legally downloading it onto their mobile devices, getting its collections into the NY Times Best Sellers list for GNs, and regularly placing it in the Top 10 books in the direct market... TWICE a month?
It's almost like angry internet reactions to the book don't really match up with what the comic book buying public are actually doing. ;-)
@danslott: Please, mr. Slott, stop talking about sales etc! Please!!! You keep focusing on numbers, while the majority of the fans that dislikes SSM (those that do dislike it) tends to focus on the story! Others must be the judges of our work, so let comic book history judge you! Respectfully.
P.S. I wish you well, I'm happy you're happy, but I'm not happy for my favourite comic book character. That's all.
@danslott: Please, mr. Slott, stop talking about sales etc! Please!!
Numbers for 1 or 2 issues = Retailer orders and speculation.
CONSISTENT numbers for 20 issues = READERSHIP. There are 20,000+ more regular readers for SSM than there were for ASM. Sorry, but that's a fact. I understand that you don't like hearing that fact, Phaedrusgr, but that doesn't stop it from being a fact. :-/
Message boards like this one (and lets be generous) have about 20 to 50 regular posters on threads like these. Tops. And (lets be super generous) even we were to add 100 to 200 imaginary "lurkers" who agree with you... that's not really a "majority" of anything. That's a case of groupthink in action. And, the nature of internet message boards being what they are (a place for people to vent their frustrations), they will always give the impression that they're a "majority" of some subsection that agrees with itself that x, y, or z is the worst-thing-ever.
Is that fair?
Sales sales sales...ever thought it might have something todo with the title still being spiderman? change the title to the superior Doctor octopus and see how that book flies off the shelves >.>, honestly keep pointing to the sales once they slip will you still point to them? how about if it returns to amazing spiderman just prior to the ASM2 launch, if ratings go up will you cry foul and say its just due to the movie?
your nothing more than a gimmick writer 1 HUGE twist after another HUGE twist...zzZZzzz keep on keepin on i guess
One last thing will the next issue of superior be another GROUNDBREAKER or CANT MISS ISSUE will it SET THE STAGE FOR FUTURE EVENTS!!! bravo for the hotshot booking of spiderman
GIMMICK
Edit a bit unfair since you do have some ongoing stories taking place such as carlie's investigation and miguel tailing tiberius stone
Lots of people buy the book because it has the name “spiderman” on it, the name by itself sells, some others (like me) because are waiting for the return of Peter, some others because they like the book, etc.
The book it selling well, but not everyone likes the “superior” idea (even if they buy it).
Slott is a good, sometime even great, writer but I simply don’t like the idea of mass murder, taking the place of a heroe that is drawn in kids underwear.
@danslott: You keep focusing on numbers, while the majority of the fans that dislikes SSM (those that do dislike it) tends to focus on the story
I said "the majority of the fans that dislikes SSM", not the majority of the fans dislikes SSM! As I said, you should stop talking about sales, Mr. Slott. That's all. And yes, I don't like it. I'm 32 years old, I've been reading this comic book for two decades and it's the second time in its history, I can't stand it. But that's just me, I'm glad other spidey fans enjoy it! But, I do believe you have something good waiting for us, spidey fans. I hope I clarified my post. Respectfully (again). I don't want you to think I have "EVOL" feelings about you!
thats exactly what im saying. superior spiderman has to be on of the top 3 titles. look marvel comics is a business and if a title is selling very well- their not gonna change it. if everyone hated it- they wouldnt buy it. ock is a better spiderman as in he winds up on top instead of the bottom his enemies actually scared of him plus he has all the cool gadgets. look i would like to see peter return but keep the new costume and all the toys -lol
I'm amazed at how many people are "against" Superior Spider-Man.
They're so against it...
...that for the past 10 months, it's appeared in the Top 10 more than any other Marvel ongoing title.
...and Marvel's sold enough Superior Spider-Man posters that they put out a 2nd one... and recently a 3rd.
...and multiple mini-mates and (upcoming) action figures.
...and high sales in digital comics.
...and trade collections.
So if people are really against it, why are they hanging posters of it on their walls, putting action figures of it up on their shelves, legally downloading it onto their mobile devices, getting its collections into the NY Times Best Sellers list for GNs, and regularly placing it in the Top 10 books in the direct market... TWICE a month?
It's almost like angry internet reactions to the book don't really match up with what the comic book buying public are actually doing. ;-)
superior is the best thing marvel has right now. this green goblin fight is going to be awesome
I highly disagree. There are other better books. Examples: Scarlet Spider, Young Avengers, Captain Marvel and Thor God of Thunder. I'm definitely getting the upcoming New Warriors series.
thats exactly what im saying. superior spiderman has to be on of the top 3 titles. look marvel comics is a business and if a title is selling very well- their not gonna change it. if everyone hated it- they wouldnt buy it. ock is a better spiderman as in he winds up on top instead of the bottom his enemies actually scared of him plus he has all the cool gadgets. look i would like to see peter return but keep the new costume and all the toys -lol
Well Justin Beiber is on top of the music charts with huge CD sales and concert sales. Doesn't mean his music has a long lasting legacy of quality attached to it. Fact: quantity of sales does not equal quality.
@magnetic_eye: lets leave it on this great great great point you've just made =) quantity does not = quality by any stretch of the imagination
@danslott: OMG, action figures? :O I really like the current Superior costume. That'd be a cool figure to have.
BTW, I like Superior. Obviously I (like pretty much everyone else) prefer Peter over Otto, but Superior is a very interesting concept and it's kept my attention for the past 21 issues.
No, and I'll tell you why. Opinion. You cannot say someone's opinion of your comic is wrong just because other people buy it. That's at the very best a shallow argument. You're not even trying to argue that your story is good, just that people buy it. And that's kind of the clincher. You're suggesting that you yourself don't believe in your story by falling back on sales numbers and you start talking about dark figures, which as an argument can be dismissed because it can easily be argued the other way around. (Edit: The same can be said about your groupthink argument. People are complaining because others are complaining? Maybe people buy because other people buy? Again though, that's not arguing about the quality of the content in any way)
No, and I'll tell you why. Opinion. You cannot say someone's opinion of your comic is wrong just because other people buy it.
Please show me ANYWHERE where I've said someone is "wrong" to feel the way they do OR have an opinion about what they've actually read for themselves. When you find it, I'll be right here.
You're not even trying to argue that your story is good, just that people buy it.
Sorry. You're wrong. I've said MANY times here and on other boards that I'm very proud of the work the entire team is doing on the book, that we believe very strongly about what we're doing, and that we're very passionate about the work.
And I'm NOT saying that people buy it. I'm SPECIFICALLY saying that the sales are a pretty accurate measurement of the FACT that we've developed a READERSHIP. These aren't "speculators." If the sales are REGULARLY 20,000 higher than they were on ASM-- TWICE a month-- for 10 months straight-- that's a quantifiable way to express that we've now got an ADDITIONAL 20,000 READERS who are following the book. Attempts to use semantics to spin that into a NEGATIVE thing are kind of laughable and telling.
The screams of "Beiber" and "quantity doesn't equal quality" are sour grapes from fans who DO hold a negative opinion of the book. And it's cool that THEY have that opinion. But let's take a step back and look at the audience for a sec. The audience for comics isn't as large as it once was-- and the kinds of consumers and their tastes are selective. This isn't some massive widespread arena like the music industry. There isn't a giant demographic of girl tweens that are going to buy a bazillion Beiber or One Direction albums and skew the ratings. These are our fellow comic book fans-- the same people shoulder-to-shoulder with you in your Local Comic Shop. And a LARGE chunk of 'em are REGULARLY buying (and-- SHOCK OF SHOCKS-- enjoying) Superior Spider-Man. And they're doing it enough to make it Marvel's best performing ongoing. Using the Beiber argument just seems silly in this marketplace and this specific situation.
Not really. We're talking about message board logic. Groupthink requires concepts/ideas/communication. That's different than the simple message of "they're buying that, so I'll buy that" of consumerism and a more basic going with the flow. That's more like deciding to see a movie because all the posters say it's the #1 movie in America. And that only goes so far.
Groupthink is like people getting together and creating an atmosphere where they can validate each others specific viewpoints-- from anything "Global warming doesn't exist" to "Only the first Darren episodes of BEWITCHED should 'count.'" And then go on to discuss it over-and-over again, backing each other up, and gaining a consensus. Not just because of what is or isn't factual, but BECAUSE of that consensus.
@danslott: So, everything is perfect, fans love it, sales go well, we're in the Happy Land! Yay! I dare you! Keep Otto forever and eliminate every Parker aspect in his life. Make him a character of his own, something completely new. Let's see how this would go.
@danslott: As I told you on another thread Mr Slott, your presence on responding to those of us who dislike Superior Spider-Man isn't going to make things any more tenable on this thread. For one, whilst we Superior critics are a vocal minority on here, we are regrettably a minority. It would be foolish to argue that loads of people aren't buying Superior every month thus making it one of Marvel's best selling titles. But as I told you in another thread, there is a difference between sales (quantity) and story telling quality. I've always been more for quality than quantity in comics and I can and have given you plenty of reasons why Superior Spider-Man ruins everything I love about Spider-Man. You and the team may be happy with what you're doing but in the process, you're alienating those who truly appreciate Peter Parker as Spider-Man and what he stood for as a true relatable everyman superhero. Issue 9 particularly angered me given what you had the Peter ghost do.
So what I'm trying to say is that you're getting the wrong end of the stick sometimes with the views expressed on here. And at the end of the day, you still have the sheep lapping up your title so why waste time arguing with people on the Internet who know better?
@danslott: So, everything is perfect, fans love it, sales go well, we're in the Happy Land! Yay!
See? Sour grapes. :-)
@danslott: As I told you on another thread Mr Slott, your presence on responding to those of us who dislike Superior Spider-Man isn't going to make things any more tenable on this thread.
I believe you've also said on another thread that you haven't been reading the title for some time. It's amazing how much time you dedicate online to bashing something (via second hand information) to something you clearly want no part of. What's the point? Wouldn't your time be better spent talking back and forth with other fans discussing something you're enjoying and want to spread some good word-of-mouth about? I get the need to vent and go off on something you don't like... but after 20 issues, at what point does it become an unhealthy Captain Ahab-like obsession? :-/
You and the team may be happy with what you're doing but in the process, you're alienating those who truly appreciate Peter Parker as Spider-Man and what he stood for...
So you're saying that those readers who do stay with the title, by your estimation, don't appreciate Peter Parker? That's kinda judgmental on your part wouldn't you say?
Wow. So everyone who DOES enjoy the title are "sheep" in your eyes. Entitled much?
This is probably my favorite marvel title right now, it is a big and epic story that is well written.
Thanks, @papinacho! I appreciate that. :-D
(By the way, @lvenger thinks you, personally, are "sheep.") :-P
I believe you've also said on another thread that you haven't been reading the title for some time. It's amazing how much time you dedicate online to bashing something (via second hand information) to something you clearly want no part of. What's the point? Wouldn't your time be better spent talking back and forth with other fans discussing something you're enjoying and want to spread some good word-of-mouth about? I get the need to vent and go off on something you don't like... but after 20 issues, at what point does it become an unhealthy Captain Ahab-like obsession? :-/
Wow congrats on trying to demean my points when I'm trying to address you in a respectful manner. As for not reading the title, I'm not spending money on buying any issues but I am following what you're doing online via reviews and forums and images posted online and all that. Spider-Man is my third favourite comic book and fictional character of all time after Superman and Batman so whilst you may not see the point in me talking about something I don't like, aka Superior Spider-Man, I do like Spider-Man. The one you killed off and have humiliated to make SpOck seem superior in every way. That's why I spend some time rather than obsessing as you seem to think on Superior Spider-Man because I like the character and don't like your change in events. Just because I don't like what you're doing doesn't make me any less of a Spider-Man fan.
So you're saying that those readers who do stay with the title, by your estimation, don't appreciate Peter Parker? That's kinda judgmental on your part wouldn't you say?
Again, you misunderstand my point. Whilst it's true some people do like Superior yet are waiting for Peter's return, a lot of readers from the forums on here and elsewhere are readers who have jumped back into Spider-Man because they didn't like the way things have been going for some reason and do like Superior for some warped reason. I honestly couldn't see anything entertaining about the series and I stuck with it for 6 issues, enough to get a general outline of my thoughts on it. For one, your SpOck is like a cheesy and grating 60s villain yet Yost and Gage write a more sinister, calculating SpOck who tortures and manipulates his enemies. The inconsistency between those titles makes a sense of getting SpOck's character extremely difficult.
Wow. So everyone who DOES enjoy the title are "sheep" in your eyes. Entitled much?
Not entitled, I care about Peter Parker and what he stands for. I would never dream of doing what you and Marvel have done to him which I thoroughly disapprove of and has pushed me away from Spider-Man for the foreseeable future until either Peter comes back or you're no longer the writer. Which given that you've made no indication of leaving or bringing the real Spider-Man back may be for a while. In any case, just be glad you didn't pull this trick at DC with Superman or I'd be madder than the Hulk. And really, you're reduced to making mockeries of my comments? It was a general expression of people buying Superior when I see no reason why they should. That's all. At the end of the day when our argument is said and done, I'm one guy over the Internet in Britain expressing my views whereas you have sales of other 80,000 (though they are dwindling) copies of your series per month. I can easily make the same argument about your need to satiate your own success with this series in contrast to your comments about my supposed 'obsession' over Superior.
@lvenger: He can't accept criticism constructively. He just can't. He can't accept that some spidey fans dislike what he's done with our beloved character, despite the fact he was the one who said he'd make us get angry (and angrier #9). And I can't understand why he keeps throwing numbers at us (those that dislike SSM). What would that make us feel? Guilty for not liking it? Would that turn us into SSM believers?
@danslott: As I told you in another thread, I'm a whovian too. I hope you liked Moffat's special! Imagine if the Master became the Doctor in a similar way to your SSM idea. Moffat wouldn't be able to hide... Anyway, don't get me wrong. I don't like SSM. Yet, let us express our thoughts, respect our pain for not having our favourite hero around.
Wow congrats on trying to demean my points when I'm trying to address you in a respectful manner.
Yes. The point where you said that everyone who still reads my work are mindless sheep was the most respectful thing I've seen on the internet ever. Nicely done.
Following via "reviews" "forums" and out of context scans ISN'T following. You're reading weird skews from people who you know are hating on the book and who are hand picking things to spin their interpretation. It's NOT following the book at all.
Here, this is a wonderful summary someone posted this week about a beloved film...
"An underage circus performer whose mother is in jail, uses his deformity to his advantage after getting excessively drunk. DUMBO - 4 stars!"
You can put a strange, warped skew on ANYTHING if you want. Unless you're reading the actual book and how it's actually executed, you really don't have a valid opinion on the work. Movie critics don't write reviews based on the trailers or their friend's 2nd hand descriptions.
No. It's obsessing over Superior Spider-Man. There are LOTS of threads here about Spider-Man. Why show up to ones about Superior, a book you're clearly not reading for yourself? Pouring over other people's opinions, scans, and reviews about a book you're not reading, JUST so you can be "armed" with enough info to continue to spend a LOT of time self-righteously whining & complaining about it in Superior Spider-Man threads IS obsessing.
Yes. Lord knows it couldn't be for legitimate reasons. ;-)
So in the 6 issues you did read, where Ock blinded an old man, shot someone in the head, and brutally beat Screwball & Jester within an inch of their lives is different and "inconsistent" with how Yost & Gage have written him?
See... This, right here, are not the views of someone who's read the actual comics, but rather the views of someone who is parroting what other people are saying on internet message boards. This is crazy talk. Recently Chris wrote a story where AUNT MAY'S life was in DIRECT danger BECAUSE Otto was Spider-Man-- and the implication was that other people he knew and cared for as "Peter Parker" were going to be at risk. So he-- in full Doc Ock mode-- went about sending out the most brutal message possible. Show me an issue of ANY Superior Spider-Man comic where the stakes were as personal as that-- on an AUNT MAY'S LIFE IS IN DANGER FROM A CRIMINAL PSYCHOPATH kind of level. ANY issue. What you're doing is taking ONE person's opinion and post about something-- which didn't include ANY of that CONTEXT-- and are inflating it in your mind so that in justifies all of your PRECONCEIVED biases against this premise that you don't like. It's exactly what I'm talking about. Read it or don't read it. That's cool. But trying to fold someone else's 2nd hand opinions into your own is silly.
Not entitled, I care about Peter Parker and what he stands for.
The entitled part is where you raise yourself up to the point of a "true fan," and lower others who are enjoying the book into "sheep" and people with "warped reasons". That's fan entitlement at work.
look overall i think its nice seeing spiderman kick butt instead of being a pushover. so if they do bring peter back..bring him back with an edge- who knows mayb peter comes back and otto winds up being a spirit in his mind- could be reverse
No, and I'll tell you why. Opinion. You cannot say someone's opinion of your comic is wrong just because other people buy it.
Please show me ANYWHERE where I've said someone is "wrong" to feel the way they do OR have an opinion about what they've actually read for themselves. When you find it, I'll be right here.
Did I say that you explicitly said that? Looks like I didn't. See how easy it is to play that game? Who is really the one using semantics to bolster his arguments here? (Hint: everyone)
Good job on strawmanning me by the way. I count at least two. First, I didn't imply anywhere that selling a lot of copies is something negative. In fact, a point I was trying to make was that those types of arguments can be turned around and isn't really conducive for either party. So you sell a lot of copies, cool, good for you. Can you please drop that argument now?
Second, I didn't make the Bieber argument, so I'm not sure why you bring it up in a reply to me.
I'll concede that my phrasing on the groupthink retort could've been better. Instead of "Maybe people buy because other people buy?" something more along the lines of "Maybe people "defend" it because other people "defend" it?" would probably have made the point better. Again, I wasn't speaking in absolutes, I was trying to argue that when you make an argument from authority it can easily be turned on it's heel and argued from the other position.
No, and I'll tell you why. Opinion. You cannot say someone's opinion of your comic is wrong just because other people buy it.
Please show me ANYWHERE where I've said someone is "wrong" to feel the way they do OR have an opinion about what they've actually read for themselves. When you find it, I'll be right here.
Did I say that you explicitly said that? Looks like I didn't.
You implied-- right there-- that that's my stance.
You specifically said-- and I quoted you-- "You cannot say someone's opinion of your comic is wrong just because other people buy it."
It's so weird that you try to distance yourself from what you JUST said. And keep the quote there too. What's up with that?
Why should I drop a self evident argument. It proves my point pretty conclusively. I'm pretty sure I'll continue to use it as long as people here try look past it. Thanks for being frustrated by the inescapable truth of it though. :-)
Second, I didn't make the Bieber argument, so I'm not sure why you bring it up in a reply to me.
Saves time? :-)
Okay.
@mrgreenlantern: HEY, YOU!!!
Excellent comment, my thoughts exactly.
@danslott said: "You implied-- right there-- that that's my stance."
And you implied that people must be wrong since the comic sells well.
@danslott said: It's so weird that you try to distance yourself from what you JUST said. And keep the quote there too. What's up with that?
I'm not distancing myself from my argument. The sentence you quoted can be read in two ways. That you took it to mean "you", the person and not "you" speaking of people in general just because I was replying to you is on you.
@danslott said: Why should I drop a self evident argument.
Self-evident or not, it's a shallow argument. I'm not asking you to drop it because you shocked me to my very core (you haven't). It's more along the lines of "We get it, can we talk about something else?"
@danslott said: "You implied-- right there-- that that's my stance."
And you implied that people must be wrong since the comic sells well.
Nope. I never passed a value judgment on people's opinions. Don't know where you're getting that from. Show me where I specifically did that.
@danslott said: It's so weird that you try to distance yourself from what you JUST said. And keep the quote there too. What's up with that?
I'm not distancing myself from my argument. The sentence you quoted can be read in two ways. That you took it to mean "you", the person and not "you" speaking of people in general just because I was replying to you is on you.
Yes, because "people in general" have a comic they put out that other people are judging here? C'mon, the linguistic hoops you have to jump through to make that apply to anybody here on this threat or on this board is silly.
Self-evident or not, it's a shallow argument.
How is it a "shallow argument" to point out, through unassailable logic, that there are people enjoying the book when others here try to pretend that there's not?
@danslott: Why should I drop a self evident argument. It proves my point pretty conclusively. I'm pretty sure I'll continue to use it as long as people here try look past it. Thanks for being frustrated by the inescapable truth of it though.
See part of the reason most people look past the argument of it selling well is because it isn't the most valid argument. A perfect comparison would be Iron Man 3. The movie sold insanely well. Made a lot of money, but like Superior, it was met with mixed reactions. While a good majority liked it, there is the minority that didn't. But this minority doesn't have a lot of say, it's not as vocal and doesn't change the outcome that much.
So in the 6 issues you did read, where Ock blinded an old man, shot someone in the head, and brutally beat Screwball & Jester within an inch of their lives is different and "inconsistent" with how Yost & Gage have written him?
See... This, right here, are not the views of someone who's read the actual comics, but rather the views of someone who is parroting what other people are saying on internet message boards. This is crazy talk. Recently Chris wrote a story where AUNT MAY'S life was in DIRECT danger BECAUSE Otto was Spider-Man-- and the implication was that other people he knew and cared for as "Peter Parker" were going to be at risk. So he-- in full Doc Ock mode-- went about sending out the most brutal message possible. Show me an issue of ANY Superior Spider-Man comic where the stakes were as personal as that-- on an AUNT MAY'S LIFE IS IN DANGER FROM A CRIMINAL PSYCHOPATH kind of level. ANY issue.
I've read 11 issues of Superior, and about 12 issues of Avenging/Superior Spider-Man team-up. And yes the character is written inconsistently, not by actions but by the way he speaks. If you compare the way he speaks when written by you and the way he's written by Chris, it comes off very differently. The example you used doesn't exactly help your point because you used a very serious situation. Aunt May was in danger, had it been Peter, Peter would have gone berserk as well.
And yes the character is written inconsistently, not by actions but by the way he speaks.
Yes. And that's called "every single character at Marvel and DC".
Mark Waid writes the Flash's voice differently than Geoff Johns.
Jonathan Hickman writes Cap with a different voice than Rick Remender each and every month.
My Silver Surfer is going to speak in a different voice than how he was written in the recent digital comic.
And so on and so on.
Every writer brings something different to a character's voice whether it's Thor, Howard the Duck, or the Superior Spider-Man.
@danslott: I think you are misinterpreting what I meant.
Oh and for some reason your other comment towards me in the Discussion forum wont appear for me. So, I want you guys to deliver but, you don't have to answer every question right away, it's nice to still wonder, keeps interest. At least that's my opinion on it.
Yes. And that's called "every single character at Marvel and DC"
Still a poor excuse because most readers prefer consistency, it's main reason why trades selling more than single issues.
Mark Waid writes the Flash's voice differently than Geoff Johns.
Jonathan Hickman writes Cap with a different voice than Rick Remender each and every month.
Yet if we asked what the fans liked more, it would prove my first point of fans liking what is consistent to the character i.e.JMS run on spider-man vs your run before superior.
My Silver Surfer is going to speak in a different voice than how he was written in the recent digital comic.
At least you gave a warning before reading your next book
Yes. And that's called "every single character at Marvel and DC"
Still a poor excuse because most readers prefer consistency, it's main reason why trades selling more than single issues.
It's not an "excuse," it's a fact of life. You buy a Grant Morrison comic BECAUSE it's in his voice. Same for a Steve Gerber comic. Or a Fred Van Lente comic. Or a J.M. DeMatteis comic. Or what have you.
If some great editorial fiat was handed down that everyone had to write in the same cookie-cutter way, comics would be boring. There are days I want to read a Robert Kirkman comic. And there are days I want to read a Neil Gaiman comic. People have different voice. And when different people write the SAME characters in OTHER books, they're going to have different approaches AND voices. That's how it is.
I'm not arguing with you. This is a case where I'm simply telling you "water is wet." This is the way it was, is, and will always be. And that's okay. :-)
Mark Waid writes the Flash's voice differently than Geoff Johns.
Jonathan Hickman writes Cap with a different voice than Rick Remender each and every month.
Yet if we asked what the fans liked more, it would prove my first point of fans liking what is consistent to the character i.e.JMS run on spider-man vs your run before superior.
Fans like variety. Fans like the freedom of choice. Did ALL fans universally like the mystical/totem element that JMS brought to Spider-Man? (Before you answer this, check out the message boards back then.) Do ALL fans universally want a Spider-Man who is joke-y most of the time? Do ALL fans want universally want a Spider-Man who is serious most of the time? Do ALL fans universally want a Spider-Man who hangs out with fellow super hero more? Do ALL fans universally want a Spider-Man who's hanging out with his human-level supporting cast more?
Also... is giving fans what they say they want conducive to producing the most interesting and gripping stories? Fans want Charlie Brown to kick the football. But once you do that, the gag's over.
My Silver Surfer is going to speak in a different voice than how he was written in the recent digital comic.
At least you gave a warning before reading your next book
It's not really a "warning." It's self-evident. I could also "warn" you that James Robinson is going to write the Fantastic Four in his voice. Or I could "warn" you that Charles Soule is going to write the upcoming She-Hulk book in his voice. Is Robinson's FF going to sound like Hickman or Fraction's FF? No. But I'm still going to enjoy the hell out of it, because I want to see what James is going to do. As someone who wrote She-Hulk for 3 years, the last thing I'd want to see Charles do is be FORCED to write the book in a voice that sounded like mine. He should be free to put his own spin on things-- and I can't wait to read that!
That's part of the fun. :)
@danslott: My opinion on Superior is nether here nor there since I stopped reading Spider-Man a while before that anyway but I would like to point out that even if something sells well that doesn't make it good. I mean if that was the case then we live in a world where the Twilight Saga, Justin Bieber, Jersey Shore and X Factor are the cream of the creative industries and to be honest, that's not a world worth living in.
On another note you seem to be pretty active here on the Vine but 90% of it seems to be you arguing with pepole that are clearly not fans of SSM but why not converse with some pepole that really are fans? Surely doing a Q & A with the fans is more worth while than playing verbal joust with the haters?
@danslott: My opinion on Superior is nether here nor there since I stopped reading Spider-Man a while before that anyway but I would like to point out that even if something sells well that doesn't make it good. I mean if that was the case then we live in a world where the Twilight Saga, Justin Bieber, Jersey Shore and X Factor are the cream of the creative industries and to be honest, that's not a world worth living in.
The difference is-- to take the Bieber example-- comics are NOT the music industry. There isn't some large commercial base like tween girls that could throw rankings and sales one way against quantifiable measures of craft and quality. The comic book market is made up with all the people you are shoulder-to-shoulder with in your Local Comic Shop.
We all have different tastes and criteria-- some might like Saga, Chew, or Walking Dead-- others might like Deadpool, Justice League Dark, or Green Lantern-- others might like Adventure Time, My Little Pony, or Archie. But we're far closer in tastes and zones than the music, film, or TV industry. And if a LOT of people are buying a book, a LOT of people are enjoying it, and they're people you know. For example, on of the frequent posters here, MagneticEye, says he doesn't buy the book-- someone he knows does-- and he reads their copy. Well, that's a person who devoutly picks up this title, someone in MagneticEye's circle, so even if MagneticEye hates it with a fiery burning passion, the sale of the book ISN'T coming from the equivalent of a Bieber-buying-tween. The calls coming from "inside the house." That's where the Twilight/Bieber/Jersey Shore argument falls apart.
@jonny_anonymous: after what Dan said. I think he is trying to explain that at least, say, out of 100 people who buy it, 33 like the book. He's explaining basically that the sales are going up, whether the majority hate the book right now, but even with the sales going up it shouldn't be compared to Bieber or anyone out their now.
@danslott: My opinion on Superior is nether here nor there since I stopped reading Spider-Man a while before that anyway but I would like to point out that even if something sells well that doesn't make it good. I mean if that was the case then we live in a world where the Twilight Saga, Justin Bieber, Jersey Shore and X Factor are the cream of the creative industries and to be honest, that's not a world worth living in.
The difference is-- to take the Bieber example-- comics are NOT the music industry. There isn't some large commercial base like tween girls that could throw rankings and sales one way against quantifiable measures of craft and quality. The comic book market is made up with all the people you are shoulder-to-shoulder with in your Local Comic Shop.
We all have different tastes and criteria-- some might like Saga, Chew, or Walking Dead-- others might like Deadpool, Justice League Dark, or Green Lantern-- others might like Adventure Time, My Little Pony, or Archie. But we're far closer in tastes and zones than the music, film, or TV industry. And if a LOT of people are buying a book, a LOT of people are enjoying it, and they're people you know. For example, on of the frequent posters here, MagneticEye, says he doesn't buy the book-- someone he knows does-- and he reads their copy. Well, that's a person who devoutly picks up this title, someone in MagneticEye's circle, so even if MagneticEye hates it with a fiery burning passion, the sale of the book ISN'T coming from the equivalent of a Bieber-buying-tween. The calls coming from "inside the house." That's where the Twilight/Bieber/Jersey Shore argument falls apart.
Well that only works for a straight Bieber comparison, it doesn't fit as well with the others like X Factor and Jersey Shore.
@danslott: On the sales, matter : Spider-Man 3 is the highest grossing Spider-Man movie,of all time.......what does it mean,that it's the best,and it's better than Spider-Man 2?!
The Amazing Spider-Man wa a mediocre movie,and yet it sold better than 'Spider-Man' and 'Spider-Man 2'.....that is at least not fair.
Iron Man 2 made more money than Iron Man 1.....that is an example too.
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