Reasons to Superior Spider-Man happening (spoilers)

#1 Posted by Zyrok (37 posts) - - Show Bio

So... I saw the teaser for the Fired arc here on comicvine, and something in my mind just clicked...

Joe Quesada always wanted to do a spider-man who was broke, a street level character, someone without a love interest and all that.

Basically, undo all the stuff that had been done on the character. Well, his storys to do that weren't well received and now he started to see another problem with Spider-Man.

He is (soon to be was) an avenger. Why would the public not trust him? I mean, that was always a big part of the appeal of Spidey. Not only that, when he would have problems with money and stuff like that, why not simply ask for help with the Avengers?

Even more than that, it will sever his ties with MJ. I mean, would a woman feel safe around a man that basically raped her? Sure, not his mind, but it will be in his body.

With Ock in control of Pete's body, he will destroy his reputation, his relationship with MJ, probabaly his job at Horizon. Basically, turn Peter back to his old, teenager self.

What do you guys think?

#2 Posted by InfinityAce (110 posts) - - Show Bio

Not a bad theory. Welcome to the vine by the way. I had the same conclusion awhile ago. While superior would have this effect if Peter came back Spock wasn't made to do this right? He was suppose to be permeant.

#3 Edited by ZEELLO (223 posts) - - Show Bio

I hear this idea bounced around. I didn't like the idea, but when I post to point this out, it starts to make sense when I think about it. I think I didn't like it simply because it seemed like a lot of trouble to go through just for a temporary fix. (I had assumed that when Spider-Man comes to his senses he will try to convince everyone he's back to normal and subsequently succeed in this doing this.) But then I thought, maybe it's not a temporary fix. What if instead it's to make it so Spider-Man will never again be considered a hero in his universe, and so we never have to "worry" about Spider-Man becoming an Avenger in the future. :p

edit: I think I would have preferred, however, if there was no reason except as an excuse to introduce an evil genius Spider-Man. I almost wish that Marvel would just come out and say this was temporary and explain the reason for doing it in the first place, because then there would be no rush to move things along to quell the anxiety of outspoken fans. (implying that the series might actually last longer as a result) If only Marvel did this, it might actually become easier to enjoy Superior Spider Man for what it is.

#4 Edited by Zyrok (37 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanks for the welcome, Ace!

I think it is really a lot of trouble to get a fix, but really, they got a lot money doing this stunt as well. ASM 700 sold a lot, didn't it? And I think that if Superior doesn't last too long, it well sell a lot as well.

Then, when Peter finally returns, it will, again, sell a lot.

From a commercial perspective, it's all good.

#5 Posted by Moonchilde (1601 posts) - - Show Bio

@Zyrok: Ugg.... I hope you are wrong, but unfortunately, knowing Joe Q., you are probably right.

#6 Posted by danhimself (22443 posts) - - Show Bio

I really liked that Slott took Peter out of the same old scenario of him being broke all the time...we say Peter suffer with money problems for decades and we finally got to see what he was capable of when he had full access to a lab and unlimited resources...I think Slott really did prove that Peter should have been on the top 8 smartest list from Hulk a while back

#7 Posted by Pyrogram (36304 posts) - - Show Bio

hope not

#8 Posted by Phaedrusgr (1671 posts) - - Show Bio

You're probably right about this, but, honestly, I hope that's not the case, cause I'd hate to see such a deja-vu.

#9 Edited by animehunter (1871 posts) - - Show Bio

What you said is definitely the first first thing I thought.

With SpOCKs attitude, ego and all round self importance, I mean he would his name Dr Octopus to be associated with everything he does, and the fact that's never going to happen unless he outs himself that's never going to happen. Which would result it him taking it out on everyone around him especially Mary Jane and which would also result in him behaving more Dr Octopus than Peter.

Because of this I definitely feel that when Peter comes back, he'll have to repair every reputation and relationship he every built, especially with Mary Jane, although I would surmise that repairing the relation between him and Mary Jane would be the most difficult of all his relationship, if not impossible because as you it might not be his mind, but his body that would make her feel that she unsafe around him. For me I really do hope that it won't be a permanent separation, because if it is, it could mean that Mary Jane will appear less and less in the Marvel universe, because I would doubt she would stay in the same city as Peter considering what (hypothetically) happened to her .

#10 Posted by Strider92 (16238 posts) - - Show Bio

Doc Ock would never be homeless. During EOTH he had a whole underwater base an such. He has random lab's stashed around as well. Ock is too smart to be poor or homeless. However I see how the rest could be relevant.

#11 Posted by gridde (91 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92 said:

Doc Ock would never be homeless. During EOTH he had a whole underwater base an such. He has random lab's stashed around as well. Ock is too smart to be poor or homeless. However I see how the rest could be relevant.

I think the OP is saying that when Parker comes back, his life will basically be in tatters (and he won't have access to any of Ock's stuff). All his friendships ruined, not an Avenger, no career, no love-life, and public opinion against him. Essentially rebooting him, though instead of a teen he'd be a kinda pathetic adult.

It makes a lot of sense, and would be a logical way to basically regress the character...though it's a horrible idea, personally. Having him regain his pre-Spock life over the course of an arc or two would be one thing , but trying to enforce yet another "permanent change in the status quo" would be too much.

#12 Posted by Strider92 (16238 posts) - - Show Bio

@gridde: Oh I see now.......that actually makes a very scary amount of sense.

#13 Posted by Earth616 (174 posts) - - Show Bio

I hope not but your probably right.... It'd kinda feel like 'what was the point to the last couple hundred issues', cause everything he's built up would have just been made to be destroyed... Something I've been wondering though, do you think it'll stay ssm or go back to asm ?????

#14 Posted by Phaedrusgr (1671 posts) - - Show Bio

@Earth616: It'll stay SSM, but it'll have another meaning instead of Superior Spiderman. SUPERIOR SLOTT MAN!

#15 Posted by PunyParker (9383 posts) - - Show Bio

Thats the whole story!

We have already said that its an unnoficial reboot! When Ock DESTRAYS compeletely Pete's life,then Pete will come back,to get what's left....no MJ,no Avengers,no Horizon.....whitch is fair.....(you see the sarcasm...)

#16 Posted by Zyrok (37 posts) - - Show Bio

@gridde said:

@Strider92 said:

Doc Ock would never be homeless. During EOTH he had a whole underwater base an such. He has random lab's stashed around as well. Ock is too smart to be poor or homeless. However I see how the rest could be relevant.

I think the OP is saying that when Parker comes back, his life will basically be in tatters (and he won't have access to any of Ock's stuff). All his friendships ruined, not an Avenger, no career, no love-life, and public opinion against him. Essentially rebooting him, though instead of a teen he'd be a kinda pathetic adult.

It makes a lot of sense, and would be a logical way to basically regress the character...though it's a horrible idea, personally. Having him regain his pre-Spock life over the course of an arc or two would be one thing , but trying to enforce yet another "permanent change in the status quo" would be too much.

Exactly! Which I agree is a terrible idea too... But what ya gonna do, right? I guess if the decision lays in the hands of Joe Q. this is how is gonna be.

I initially was going to give this a chance, because I thought maybe Slott wanted to tell another kind of story, but if this is just a manouver to make an unnoficial reboot, I'm gone.

#17 Posted by Dark_Guyver (2305 posts) - - Show Bio

Glad I dropped this garbage. Joe Q has ruined Spider-Man.

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#18 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32993 posts) - - Show Bio

I hope so

#19 Posted by Strider92 (16238 posts) - - Show Bio

@PunyParker said:

We have already said that its an unnoficial reboot! When Ock DESTRAYS compeletely Pete's life,then Pete will come back,to get what's left....no MJ,no Avengers,no Horizon.....whitch is fair.....(you see the sarcasm...)

I honestly prefer this to OMD.

#20 Posted by LastOblivion (100 posts) - - Show Bio

Welcome to the vine!

Makes sense, It's possible, but I really really hope not. I like Pete's new life.

And, many desagree, but I liked him in Avengers. Oh, well... He never got enough attetion anyway.

#21 Posted by inkBot (97 posts) - - Show Bio

@gridde said:

Essentially rebooting him

If it aint fixed, break it.

#22 Posted by gridde (91 posts) - - Show Bio

@PunyParker said:

We have already said that its an unnoficial reboot! When Ock DESTRAYS compeletely Pete's life,then Pete will come back,to get what's left....no MJ,no Avengers,no Horizon.....whitch is fair.....(you see the sarcasm...)

I honestly prefer this to OMD.

I honestly still can't quite believe that there was seriously a storyline where the Devil annuls Peter's marriage in exchange for doing some surgery. And that it stuck. Joe Q took a dump on about 20 years of history in order to make the Spider-Man character more appealing to him.

Compared to that, little things like temporarily dying or making Spidey broke are't so bad, I guess.

#23 Posted by JimTheSurfer (560 posts) - - Show Bio

If he does that, I'll go berserk... I always wanted Pete to get a cool job and get his private life together and after "Big Time" things were so cool...

#24 Posted by PunyParker (9383 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92 said:

@PunyParker said:

We have already said that its an unnoficial reboot! When Ock DESTRAYS compeletely Pete's life,then Pete will come back,to get what's left....no MJ,no Avengers,no Horizon.....whitch is fair.....(you see the sarcasm...)

I honestly prefer this to OMD.

Me too,honestly...

#25 Edited by LastOblivion (100 posts) - - Show Bio

@JimTheSurfer said:

If he does that, I'll go berserk... I always wanted Pete to get a cool job and get his private life together and after "Big Time" things were so cool...

I know that feel, bro. Things were so nice to Pete...

#26 Posted by Zyrok (37 posts) - - Show Bio

@PunyParker said:

@Strider92 said:

@PunyParker said:

We have already said that its an unnoficial reboot! When Ock DESTRAYS compeletely Pete's life,then Pete will come back,to get what's left....no MJ,no Avengers,no Horizon.....whitch is fair.....(you see the sarcasm...)

I honestly prefer this to OMD.

Me too,honestly...

I do think this a better storyline, but, the effects are terrible imo. Removing character growth is bad, no matter how good the execution might be.

#27 Posted by soduh2 (865 posts) - - Show Bio

@Zyrok said:

@PunyParker said:

@Strider92 said:

@PunyParker said:

We have already said that its an unnoficial reboot! When Ock DESTRAYS compeletely Pete's life,then Pete will come back,to get what's left....no MJ,no Avengers,no Horizon.....whitch is fair.....(you see the sarcasm...)

I honestly prefer this to OMD.

Me too,honestly...

I do think this a better storyline, but, the effects are terrible imo. Removing character growth is bad, no matter how good the execution might be.

Agreed

#28 Posted by Phaedrusgr (1671 posts) - - Show Bio

@soduh2: Well said

#29 Posted by silverageguy (43 posts) - - Show Bio

@Zyrok: Unfortunately Zyrock, Im inclined to think you are right.The whole thought of this scenario just makes me sick. Quesada has ruined Spiderman and a good portion of the Marvel universe. Civil War was the beginning of the long slow slide into the abyss. Sadly, I have felt compelled to drop most all of Marvel's titles. It truly is a very sad state of affairs. What is really discouraging is the fact that fans seem to be on board with the whole sorry mess.

#30 Posted by Shawnbaby (10584 posts) - - Show Bio

I honestly don't think this will be how it goes down.

Almost every Avenger has at one point been mind controlled or just gone crazy and done horrible things. Almost always they are accepted back with open arms. Look at the Scarlet Witch. "sure, you went crazy and killed half the team...but they got better so it's all good"

As soon as it is revealed that it was Doc Ock that was controlling Peter's body at the time...all will be forgiven on that score. Especially once it's shown that Peter was in there fighting ock and limiting the damage that he could do (only reason Boomerang is still alive is because Peter stopped Ock from killing him). It shouldn't be hard to prove either...Wolverine is already suspicious that Peter is not in his right mind.

As far as Horizon is concerned....that might be a different story...since in order to prove that it wasn't him he'd have to reveal his secret identity. On the other hand...Max already seems to suspect that Peter is Spider-Man anyway.

#31 Posted by Zyrok (37 posts) - - Show Bio

@Shawnbaby said:

I honestly don't think this will be how it goes down.

Almost every Avenger has at one point been mind controlled or just gone crazy and done horrible things. Almost always they are accepted back with open arms. Look at the Scarlet Witch. "sure, you went crazy and killed half the team...but they got better so it's all good"

As soon as it is revealed that it was Doc Ock that was controlling Peter's body at the time...all will be forgiven on that score. Especially once it's shown that Peter was in there fighting ock and limiting the damage that he could do (only reason Boomerang is still alive is because Peter stopped Ock from killing him). It shouldn't be hard to prove either...Wolverine is already suspicious that Peter is not in his right mind.

As far as Horizon is concerned....that might be a different story...since in order to prove that it wasn't him he'd have to reveal his secret identity. On the other hand...Max already seems to suspect that Peter is Spider-Man anyway.

Logically, what you're saying is true, BUT, and is a big but, Quesada wants the status-quo like in the old days, before Avengers and everything else. So, they might not forgive him.

#32 Posted by Shawnbaby (10584 posts) - - Show Bio

@Zyrok said:

@Shawnbaby said:

I honestly don't think this will be how it goes down.

Almost every Avenger has at one point been mind controlled or just gone crazy and done horrible things. Almost always they are accepted back with open arms. Look at the Scarlet Witch. "sure, you went crazy and killed half the team...but they got better so it's all good"

As soon as it is revealed that it was Doc Ock that was controlling Peter's body at the time...all will be forgiven on that score. Especially once it's shown that Peter was in there fighting ock and limiting the damage that he could do (only reason Boomerang is still alive is because Peter stopped Ock from killing him). It shouldn't be hard to prove either...Wolverine is already suspicious that Peter is not in his right mind.

As far as Horizon is concerned....that might be a different story...since in order to prove that it wasn't him he'd have to reveal his secret identity. On the other hand...Max already seems to suspect that Peter is Spider-Man anyway.

Logically, what you're saying is true, BUT, and is a big but, Quesada wants the status-quo like in the old days, before Avengers and everything else. So, they might not forgive him.

If Quesada simply didn't want Spidey to be an Avenger anymore and to go back to being broke...there are much easier ways he could go about that. The Superior Spider-Man is all Dan Slott's idea.

#33 Posted by muhabba (299 posts) - - Show Bio

So Joe Q's master plan it to make Spider-Man broke, jobless, no girlfriend(s), distrusted by the other heroes, & hated by the citizens of New York. Next thing you know he'll make him have to live with his Aunt, be akward around women, have to get some sort of part-time/freelance job (I understand it's pretty easy to sell photos to newspapers and I think peter owns a camera), try to go to school and maintain his studies while hiding the fact he's also a superhero, study for his driver's liscence, try to get a date for the prom, scrounge up enough money to make web-fluid, try to make enough money cuz his Aunt has a another heart attack, deal with his acne, try to avoid his Aunt from fixing him up with the neighbors niece... y'know. I think I'll just go pick up a few Essential Spider-Mans and just reread the original stories from the original writers.

#34 Posted by Lvenger (19048 posts) - - Show Bio

This makes a whole lot of sense. Not too sure how I feel about that. The whole point of Spider-Man is the evolution of the character. Ock taking over his body is a progression I'm curiously interested in but rehashing Peter into an adult version of what he was during Stan Lee's run is kind of pathetic if you ask me.

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#35 Posted by Phaedrusgr (1671 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger: The whole plot is a little bit pathetic, if you ask me. We agree on the evolution thing, but I don't think Otto taking over is an evolution. Peter was Spiderman. There's no mantle here (not that I've ever understood the whole mantle thing that seems to absorb the fans' interest nowadays).

#36 Posted by Lvenger (19048 posts) - - Show Bio

@Phaedrusgr: It's a progression then. A step in a new direction for better or worse. I haven't read SSM 1 yet but I should have read 1 and 2 by the start of February. If I'm not impressed with Slott's writing, I might switch it for Avenging Spider-Man or another Marvel book. Is Yost doing a better job than Slott in your opinion?

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#37 Posted by Phaedrusgr (1671 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger: If you ask me (that you do - lol), Yost, definitely! And if you want to switch it for another Marvel book, may I suggest Scarlet Spider. Honestly, I think it's one of the finest (Yost's the writer again). Scarlet Spider's been a concrete, fun to read, full of action comic book till now.

#38 Posted by Lvenger (19048 posts) - - Show Bio

@Phaedrusgr:So even though you don't like SpOck, Yost is a better writer of him than Slott? Cool thanks for the advice. Though I have to say that the promise of Miguel O'Hara is a tantalising one. Have you seen the solicits for SSM 7 and 8?

ISSUE #7 - “Troubled Mind” Part 1

• An Avenger no more?

• With the public at large realizing this is no longer a “Friendly Neighborhood” Spider-Man, and in light of his actions in recent events, will the Avengers kick Spidey off the team? Plus the return of Cardiac!

• And a new development for a Spider-Man who hasn’t been seen for some time. And by time, we mean centuries.

• The lead up to the Spider-Event of the Summer STARTS HERE!

ISSUE #8 - “Troubled Mind” Part 2

• Peter Parker takes a stand!

• With a villain acting like a hero and a hero acting like a villain, one man has decided that enough is enough!

• More with Cardiac! More surprises! And a moment that will break a lot of hearts!

• To save the life of one of Spider-Man’s enemies, Peter Parker fights to regain control of his body, his mind, and his destiny!

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#39 Posted by Phaedrusgr (1671 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger: Yeah, I've seen them and they made me quite happy! Despite the fact I dislike the concept of SSM, I must admit that Yost's approach on SSM is more interesting (quite an irony, right?), but that's just me. I want to see Miguel's part in the whole story. I think Slott has a time distortion thing in his mind, due to his Doctor Who influences (he's a fan of the Time Lord). I believe he'll show that Miguel knows what happened and comes back to restore the time line - the facts etc, that weren't supposed to happen, meaning the mind swapping (or whatever's been happening with the whole SpOck concept). That's what I can imagine.

#40 Posted by Lvenger (19048 posts) - - Show Bio

@Phaedrusgr: Ah that could make sense. But it is a bit soon I have to say. SSM is only just started and we're already seeing its end. I'd have hoped for this change to last 1-2 years as it's the average for a major Marvel death nowadays.

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#41 Posted by Ninjablade09 (3145 posts) - - Show Bio

reading those solicits makes me think that pete will be in doc ocks body and try and get his body back again like in 700. SpOck may not be as prepared as the first time. Hope Im wrong.

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