Peter Parker spent 50 years fighting crime with little money or support. Parker fought for all New Yorkers, even the ones who tried to ruin him (ex. Jonah Jameson, Harry Osborn). Selflessness was his greatest attribute. How many times did Spider-Man's foes try to break him? The Goblin stories alone would have felled a lesser hero. No, Spider-Man fought, inspired, and served his fellow person time and again.

Could anyone see Doctor Octopus doing the same? Isn't this move a good thing? Walking Spider-Man's first* archnemesis through his life, teaching him the value of heroism and humility? A selfish person couldn't do what Spider-Man does everyday. "Superior Spider-Man" is ironic for a reason.

Thoughts?

*Doctor Octopus was Peter's most formidable foe before the Green Goblin, no?

There's a lot of people who interact a lot with Spidey that become better people because of him. Examples include Ben Reilly, Kaine, Chameleon (for a little while at least), Prowler, Puma, Sandman (for a while), Rocket Racer, and many more. I'm sure Doc Ock is gonna be a better person because of this.

The lesson is pretend to be someone else and you'll get a hot supermodel girlfriend!

@Strider92 said:

The lesson is pretend to be someone else and you'll get a hot supermodel girlfriend!

Oh....so i guess, i dont count then.....HA!

@VampireSelektor said:

Peter Parker spent 50 years fighting crime with little money or support. Parker fought for all New Yorkers, even the ones who tried to ruin him (ex. Jonah Jameson, Harry Osborn). Selflessness was his greatest attribute. How many times did Spider-Man's foes try to break him? The Goblin stories alone would have felled a lesser hero. No, Spider-Man fought, inspired, and served his fellow person time and again.

Could anyone see Doctor Octopus doing the same? Isn't this move a good thing? Walking Spider-Man's first adversary through his life, teaching him the value of heroism and humility? A selfish person couldn't do what Spider-Man does everyday. "Superior Spider-Man" is ironic for a reason.

Thoughts?

You are kidding, right? Anyone who has been following Spidey for any length of time, (in my case 46 years) would have a hard time seeing this as nothing but a complete miscarriage of justice and a total farce. Under the guidance of Quesada and Slot the character of Peter Parker has been completely transformed into a simpering wimp. Replacing him with doc ock is just too creepy on any number of levels. It teaches that evil is rewarded when good men fail to destroy it. Sable was absolutely correct to point out that Peter Parker failed himself, MJ, and the world when he allowed doc ock to keep living. Letting a great evil pass from the world is not a weakness. I dont buy any of Slots morally relativistic B.S. The Peter Parker of Ditko and Romita sr. had a stronger moral compass. This whole story arc is a disgrace and unworthy of one of Marvels most loved and iconic heros.

I think Doc Ock is eventually going to sacrifice himself to bring back Peter.

@silverageguy said:

@VampireSelektor said:

Peter Parker spent 50 years fighting crime with little money or support. Parker fought for all New Yorkers, even the ones who tried to ruin him (ex. Jonah Jameson, Harry Osborn). Selflessness was his greatest attribute. How many times did Spider-Man's foes try to break him? The Goblin stories alone would have felled a lesser hero. No, Spider-Man fought, inspired, and served his fellow person time and again.

Could anyone see Doctor Octopus doing the same? Isn't this move a good thing? Walking Spider-Man's first adversary through his life, teaching him the value of heroism and humility? A selfish person couldn't do what Spider-Man does everyday. "Superior Spider-Man" is ironic for a reason.

Thoughts?

You are kidding, right? Anyone who has been following Spidey for any length of time, (in my case 46 years) would have a hard time seeing this as nothing but a complete miscarriage of justice and a total farce. Under the guidance of Quesada and Slot the character of Peter Parker has been completely transformed into a simpering wimp. Replacing him with doc ock is just too creepy on any number of levels. It teaches that evil is rewarded when good men fail to destroy it. Sable was absolutely correct to point out that Peter Parker failed himself, MJ, and the world when he allowed doc ock to keep living. Letting a great evil pass from the world is not a weakness. I dont buy any of Slots morally relativistic B.S. The Peter Parker of Ditko and Romita sr. had a stronger moral compass. This whole story arc is a disgrace and unworthy of one of Marvels most loved and iconic heros.

Hmm. We'll see, I suppose.

The lesson was lost as soon as...

SPOILERS

SPOILERS

SPOILERS

SPOILERS

It was revealed Peter Parker was still present in Doc Ock's mind. Instead of the story being about Otto coming to terms with the lessons learned in ASM 700, it's about Peter fighting to return to his body. It derailed everything we knew about this book going into it for the sake of calming down angry fans.

@CircularLogic: Really? Hmm.

The OP and CircularLogic half right. Otto is being a hero...but a much crappier one than we were lead to believe from the end of ASM 700 and Avenging 16.1.

The idea of Doc Ock in Peter's body is actually really interesting, and I think it could make for a good story, but I'm not crazy about the way they're doing things. Totally agree with everything in gridde's last post. Also, I'm tolerating the creepy romance for now on the assumption that Slott has a trick up his sleeve and MJ knows more than she's letting on. She really needs to get wise soon and tase the crap out of "Peter."

@Mycroftian: It'd be an "interesting" story, if we were talking about an arc (6-8 maximum for me). The way Slott imposed Otto as the Superior Spiderman was very sloppy. Too many plot holes. To be honest, I find the whole story dull and a little bit insulting. Especially when I read the "intro" of Superior Spiderman in SSM#1, I went mad! I don't know if I'll be reading the SSM, cause I gave it a try with all my heart and I couldn't follow, I couldn't get in the mood. Above all, I found the dialogues boring etc. It had action and Stegman was SUPERIOR of course (what an artist), but SSM...not for me. I'll be waiting for the next writer, hopefully Yost, that will bring back Peter with a parade or something.

This is a more accurate explain of what we actually learned.

I stopped reading Spider-Man after the Brand New Moment In Day as it... well I've already listed those reasons. I was actually reading Spider-Man in the Avengers titles and was starting to pick up the newer titles, and then. 30 years of reading Spider-Man was flushed down the drain. Joe Q and Slott have no idea what makes a hero. A hero doesn't sell his soul or his marriage or his possiable unborn child to the devil. A hero doesn't just had off his life and girlfriend to a villain who has been reformed for 5 whole minutes. Spider-Man has been nothing but rehashed stories from 30 years ago and failed concepts from DC. (looks like I found my soap box again *le sigh*)

This is the obstacle Oct has to face. It is one big obstacle he has to face and is the biggest he will ever face. I am getting that you guys think of Oct being Rotimus prime. He can never replace the original. That is true and probably scarlet should take role. Spiderman was made as redemption but he gone too far with his self pity. Does One More Day mean anything? I think he needs divine intervention. We got Wolverine went thru hell literally how about Spiderman return from heaven. Anyone interesting reading a slice of life series peter journey in heaven before he comes back?

@VampireSelektor: It's like Batman in the 90's, give the public the violent bloodthirsty vigilante for a while and then restore the status quo. And that'll happen because Peter's ghost (FOR F$#K^ S@KE) is hanging around like a cheap plot device. If they were really brave they'd of killed Peter DEAD and let Peter's memories influence Doc Octo-Spider.

But it is all about sales :)

@muhabba: Applause, applause

@batkevin74 said:

@VampireSelektor: It's like Batman in the 90's, give the public the violent bloodthirsty vigilante for a while and then restore the status quo. And that'll happen because Peter's ghost (FOR F$#K^ S@KE) is hanging around like a cheap plot device. If they were really brave they'd of killed Peter DEAD and let Peter's memories influence Doc Octo-Spider.

But it is all about sales :)

@gridde said:

The OP and CircularLogic half right. Otto is being a hero...but a much crappier one than we were lead to believe from the end of ASM 700 and Avenging 16.1.

SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.

The first issue of Superior ends with Peter directly intervening (since he has limited control over the body/mind it seems, without Otto realising) to stop Otto killing a beaten criminal and declaring his intention to take his body back, and earlier in the issue he takes control to save a cop from an explosion by throwing himself in the way. However, that's only issue 1, and the story could still very easily go in the direction of Otto really coming to terms with responsibility and being a truly good human being. I don't see how the series can be expected to last at all if Otto remains a douchebag with Peter trying actively to take him out. Since Peter is now confirmed 'alive' in some regard, there are many, many ways he can return to the fold while Superior develops and continues unimpaired.

Hmm. I'm disappointed.

@silverageguy said:

@VampireSelektor said:

Peter Parker spent 50 years fighting crime with little money or support. Parker fought for all New Yorkers, even the ones who tried to ruin him (ex. Jonah Jameson, Harry Osborn). Selflessness was his greatest attribute. How many times did Spider-Man's foes try to break him? The Goblin stories alone would have felled a lesser hero. No, Spider-Man fought, inspired, and served his fellow person time and again.

Could anyone see Doctor Octopus doing the same? Isn't this move a good thing? Walking Spider-Man's first adversary through his life, teaching him the value of heroism and humility? A selfish person couldn't do what Spider-Man does everyday. "Superior Spider-Man" is ironic for a reason.

Thoughts?

You are kidding, right? Anyone who has been following Spidey for any length of time, (in my case 46 years) would have a hard time seeing this as nothing but a complete miscarriage of justice and a total farce. Under the guidance of Quesada and Slot the character of Peter Parker has been completely transformed into a simpering wimp. Replacing him with doc ock is just too creepy on any number of levels. It teaches that evil is rewarded when good men fail to destroy it. Sable was absolutely correct to point out that Peter Parker failed himself, MJ, and the world when he allowed doc ock to keep living. Letting a great evil pass from the world is not a weakness. I dont buy any of Slots morally relativistic B.S. The Peter Parker of Ditko and Romita sr. had a stronger moral compass. This whole story arc is a disgrace and unworthy of one of Marvels most loved and iconic heros.

Um. I've been following Spider-Man since Amazing Fantasy. At first I heard about Doc Ock as Superior Spider-Man before I read the issue. It was ticked. Then I thought about and was sympathetic, then I was excited. Now I love Superior Spider-Man. Have you even read the issue.

The lesson is that being an awful human being and career criminal and terrorist will provide you with a perfect life if you just stick at it. In addition, the model of heroism who has stood in your way and saved countless innocents will die a pathetic, ignoble death and have their identity absorbed so that no one even realises they're dead.  
 
That is the lesson of Superior Spider-Man. 

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

The lesson is that being an awful human being and career criminal and terrorist will provide you with a perfect life if you just stick at it. In addition, the model of heroism who has stood in your way and saved countless innocents will die a pathetic, ignoble death and have their identity absorbed so that no one even realises they're dead. That is the lesson of Superior Spider-Man.

Hmm. We'll see. The story is just beginning*. What cheapened the moment for me was Peter living on as Ock's good side. If Franklin Richards had noticed Peter on some higher plane and dragged him back to life, that might've worked. "The world's greatest superhero mentoring his arguable successor from beyond the flesh" has potential.

*cliche phrase, I know

@VampireSelektor said:

Peter Parker spent 50 years fighting crime with little money or support. Parker fought for all New Yorkers, even the ones who tried to ruin him (ex. Jonah Jameson, Harry Osborn). Selflessness was his greatest attribute. How many times did Spider-Man's foes try to break him? The Goblin stories alone would have felled a lesser hero. No, Spider-Man fought, inspired, and served his fellow person time and again.

Could anyone see Doctor Octopus doing the same? Isn't this move a good thing? Walking Spider-Man's first adversary through his life, teaching him the value of heroism and humility? A selfish person couldn't do what Spider-Man does everyday. "Superior Spider-Man" is ironic for a reason.

Thoughts?

Um Vulture was Spiderman's first Super villain

@joshmightbe said:

@VampireSelektor said:

Peter Parker spent 50 years fighting crime with little money or support. Parker fought for all New Yorkers, even the ones who tried to ruin him (ex. Jonah Jameson, Harry Osborn). Selflessness was his greatest attribute. How many times did Spider-Man's foes try to break him? The Goblin stories alone would have felled a lesser hero. No, Spider-Man fought, inspired, and served his fellow person time and again.

Could anyone see Doctor Octopus doing the same? Isn't this move a good thing? Walking Spider-Man's first adversary through his life, teaching him the value of heroism and humility? A selfish person couldn't do what Spider-Man does everyday. "Superior Spider-Man" is ironic for a reason.

Thoughts?

Um Vulture was Spiderman's first Super villain

Thank you for the clearing that up. I meant "Doctor Octopus was Spider-Man's first archnemesis before Green Goblin". I'll make the correction.