Has Spider-man had a strength upgrade?

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#1 Edited by Strider92 (16163 posts) - - Show Bio

I was just reading some back issues and I realized something. Spider-man does have some high-end strength feats but the best ones are generally few and far between. For example after the Bugle feat we didn't see anything on that level for a while. However in the space of barely 10-15 issues we saw 3 high end strength feats. These are the ones i'm referring too:

The Carbonadium Ripping in EoTE:

The Plane Landing in the Alpha Arc:

The Hulk/Thor feat in Superior Team-Up:

This bordering on consistent strength now so i'm just wondering if Spider-man's strength has been amped.

We even saw him temporarily KO Wolverine in Avenging something he was incapable of doing at one point:

#2 Edited by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

I wouldn't say amped but it's consistently been underplayed over the years. I feel like it's an insult to refer to him as a "10 tonner" and that's basically backed up by the large majority of his feats. If anything, Marvel likes to list him as a weaker to keep his stories and universe more contained to a smaller level and to allow his villains to still pose threats.

Not to mention, it has been shown that Peter holds back RIDICULOUSLY even against his most dangerous foes. Best example, Otto being absolutely blown away when using Peter's body against Gargan and ripping his jaw off in one hit.

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#3 Posted by JonSmith (3990 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd say the Superior one is the most relevant to an argument for consistency: We've always known Spidey's strength sky rockets when placed under great pressure. But usually by that point, Spidey's pumped up on so much adrenaline he's barely thinking straight, hence the 'Don't think! Just DO!' Peter says while trying to stop the plane.

However, with Superior, Ock's making an impression on Thor and Hulk, and while he's indignant, he's most likely NOT at the life threatening levels of adrenaline Peter usually needs to access that level of strength.

#4 Posted by Teerack (5429 posts) - - Show Bio

It's not really an upgrade just more that they've never really showed his limits.

#5 Posted by Strider92 (16163 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget: I always thought 10tons was unfair that I agree with. He's always been a lot stronger than that and yes agreed he holds back. However landing that plane he outright states taking on upwards of 70tons, ripping Carbonadium an adamantium copy more that 1 foot in diameter and causing both Thor and Hulk to acknowledge he was moving in their grasp are also high-end ton feats and they seem to be feats he would not have been able to accomplish a few years ago. If it wasn't that i'd seen these 4 circumstances in rapid succession i'd be tempted to call it PIS.

#6 Posted by SheenLantern (6268 posts) - - Show Bio

Spidey is a badass

#7 Posted by JonSmith (3990 posts) - - Show Bio

I always thought 10tons was unfair that I agree with. He's always been a lot stronger than that and yes agreed he holds back. However landing that plane he outright states taking on upwards of 70tons, ripping Carbonadium an adamantium copy more that 1 foot in diameter and causing both Thor and Hulk to acknowledge he was moving in their grasp are also high-end ton feats and they seem to be feats he would not have been able to accomplish a few years ago. If it wasn't that i'd seen these 4 circumstances in rapid succession i'd be tempted to call it PIS.

Keep in mind, Peter's always said he has the PROPORTIONAL strength of a spider. Meaning the strength of a spider, scaled UP to his size. This is why Venom's always been stronger than Peter: It duplicated his powers, but when it latched onto a host that was physically bigger and more muscular than Peter (Eddie), it scaled up that strength to make him much stronger. Given that when Peter got his powers (and his initial stats were ten to fifteen tons), it makes sense he'd get stronger as he got older and more fit. Given his training to master the Way of the Spider, which probably put him in even better shape, his strength dramatically increasing is to be expected.

#8 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget: I always thought 10tons was unfair that I agree with. He's always been a lot stronger than that and yes agreed he holds back. However landing that plane he outright states taking on upwards of 70tons, ripping Carbonadium an adamantium copy more that 1 foot in diameter and causing both Thor and Hulk to acknowledge he was moving in their grasp are also high-end ton feats and they seem to be feats he would not have been able to accomplish a few years ago. If it wasn't that i'd seen these 4 circumstances in rapid succession i'd be tempted to call it PIS.

I can understand your viewpoint. The plane feat might be a little ridiculous but we've seen similar representations a couple of decades ago with a worn out Peter supporting the Daily Bugle building. We've also seen him effortlessly swing around tanks.

The Thor and Hulk feat is slightly misinterpreted I think. Thor barely has a grip on Otto and Hulk is essentially doing the same. Thor has been seen to constantly compliment the strength of many heroes and villains alike so it's something I'd take lightly and Hulk only mentions that he thinks he felt him move.

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#9 Posted by Strider92 (16163 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonsmith: That was what I was thinking but we never really saw the leap until recently. What i'm getting at is that intially yes he was around 10tons, then 15, then 25+ what I want to know now is that if he isn't holding back what is his limit before straining? If he took upwards of 70tons (I say upwards because he only acknowledges the jet weight and the fuel weight and chooses not to think about the thruster pressure) could his strength level before severe strain be in the 50ton region?

#10 Edited by laflux (14382 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92 Eh, he had handbook entry upgrades during the Queen arc (which was barely mentioned), and of course during the Other, so he was upgraded their and had a few nice strength feats.

But to your point specifically, I was reading some early issues of Sensational Spider-Man, in a fight with Kraven, he gets weakened with poison and starts to Hallucinate, seeing everything as a threat. A speeding Van weighing considerably more than an African Bull Elephant so 7-10 tonnes seems right comes towards him, and he effortlessly flips it over. Keep in mind Spider-Man not only overpowers the Weight of the Van, but also additional movement force, and he did while weakened.

A few issues later, he fights Moonstone, and holds a massive crane with one hand, and swings to Land on Moonstone, knocking her out. Keep in mind that Moonstone that tango'ed with Savage Hulk a few issues earlier.

Also remember Peter's Fight with Flash Thompson, where he was punching Flash so hard it was causing Earthquake style fissures.

But its a fair point.

#11 Posted by Strider92 (16163 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget: What i'm getting at is that yes we've seen similar representations of strength but always few and far between and with severe trauma on Peter's part. There happened within a small number of issues of each other and Pete was still standing and even fighting in some cases after them.

@laflux: I'll put the question to you as well. What is current Spider-man's base strength if he can perform those feats all in the upper tonnage (70-80tons) under stress? Imo it can't be far off 50.

#12 Edited by VeganDiet (994 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget: What i'm getting at is that yes we've seen similar representations of strength but always few and far between and with severe trauma on Peter's part. There happened within a small number of issues of each other and Pete was still standing and even fighting in some cases after them.

@laflux: I'll put the question to you as well. What is current Spider-man's base strength if he can perform those feats all in the upper tonnage (70-80tons) under stress? Imo it can't be far off 50.

I've just started to assume that he, for some reason, kept his strength and speed upgrades from "The Other." The speed he demonstrated to blitz 3 people with Spider Sense lends a little credence to this as well, I'd think.

As for his "tonner" status, I have him sitting around 30 at base, and being able to leap up to mid-50 tons when pressed.

#13 Posted by JetiiMitra (8222 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think he's necessarily gotten an upgrade, but in each of those situations he was under more stress than he's been under in a while, or been unfamiliar with his new strength.

EotE - "The world's counting on you" and he was pretty mad about Sable dying.

Plane - he has a track record of going above and beyond the norm when it comes to saving Aunt May

Hulk/Thor - they're holding him kind of wrong for restraining him. He's a pretty wiry guy, and they have big hands, so him being able to shift around isn't that much of a surprise, especially considering neither of them want to hold him so tightly as to hurt him. I do the same thing with younger siblings. Their speech sounds like he's stronger than expected, but that may just be because of desperation. Again, same thing with younger children. And they're both only holding him with one hand per arm.

Wolverine - I'd say Wolverine being knocked out like that isn't necessarily outside of normal Spidey's range. Or it's just bad writing.

I'd also like to point out that in the plane feat, he's estimating closer to 60 tons than 70 (I don't know how much thrust would add, so I could be wrong). Minimal difference at that level, but still.

And on a side note, I hadn't seen this before. Maybe I missed it when everyone else realized? But

Dammit, Slott.

#14 Posted by MatteoPG (1921 posts) - - Show Bio

I wouldn't say amped but it's consistently been underplayed over the years. I feel like it's an insult to refer to him as a "10 tonner" and that's basically backed up by the large majority of his feats. If anything, Marvel likes to list him as a weaker to keep his stories and universe more contained to a smaller level and to allow his villains to still pose threats.

Not to mention, it has been shown that Peter holds back RIDICULOUSLY even against his most dangerous foes. Best example, Otto being absolutely blown away when using Peter's body against Gargan and ripping his jaw off in one hit.

My thoughts exactly.

#15 Posted by segamarvel (570 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

@strider92 Eh, he had handbook entry upgrades during the Queen arc (which was barely mentioned), and of course during the Other, so he was upgraded their and had a few nice strength feats.

But to your point specifically, I was reading some early issues of Sensational Spider-Man, in a fight with Kraven, he gets weakened with poison and starts to Hallucinate, seeing everything as a threat. A speeding Van weighing considerably more than an African Bull Elephant so 7-10 tonnes seems right comes towards him, and he effortlessly flips it over. Keep in mind Spider-Man not only overpowers the Weight of the Van, but also additional movement force, and he did while weakened.

A few issues later, he fights Moonstone, and holds a massive crane with one hand, and swings to Land on Moonstone, knocking her out. Keep in mind that Moonstone that tango'ed with Savage Hulk a few issues earlier.

Also remember Peter's Fight with Flash Thompson, where he was punching Flash so hard it was causing Earthquake style fissures.

But its a fair point.

I want to read the sensational one. Can you tell me the issue number or at least some scans? The moonstone one would be great to if you could.

#16 Posted by kgb725 (6082 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel has held back Peter's strength feats except when someone is near death

#17 Posted by segamarvel (570 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

@strider92 Eh, he had handbook entry upgrades during the Queen arc (which was barely mentioned), and of course during the Other, so he was upgraded their and had a few nice strength feats.

But to your point specifically, I was reading some early issues of Sensational Spider-Man, in a fight with Kraven, he gets weakened with poison and starts to Hallucinate, seeing everything as a threat. A speeding Van weighing considerably more than an African Bull Elephant so 7-10 tonnes seems right comes towards him, and he effortlessly flips it over. Keep in mind Spider-Man not only overpowers the Weight of the Van, but also additional movement force, and he did while weakened.

A few issues later, he fights Moonstone, and holds a massive crane with one hand, and swings to Land on Moonstone, knocking her out. Keep in mind that Moonstone that tango'ed with Savage Hulk a few issues earlier.

Also remember Peter's Fight with Flash Thompson, where he was punching Flash so hard it was causing Earthquake style fissures.

But its a fair point.

I repeat which Issues? I REALLY want to read them.

#18 Posted by w0nd (2957 posts) - - Show Bio

like any human you piss him off or get his adrenaline pumping they can exceed what they thought they were capable of.

#19 Posted by Ms. Omega (4404 posts) - - Show Bio

As I recall didn't Spidey get a strength upgrade in the "Other" story line in addition to more powers only to have them go away after that story line was over?

#20 Posted by segamarvel (570 posts) - - Show Bio

some early issues of Sensational Spider-Man, in a fight with Kraven, he gets weakened with poison and starts to Hallucinate, seeing everything as a threat. A speeding Van weighing considerably more than an African Bull Elephant so 7-10 tonnes seems right comes towards him, and he effortlessly flips it over. Keep in mind Spider-Man not only overpowers the Weight of the Van, but also additional movement force, and he did while weakened.

Can SOMEONE please tell me which issue it was?

#21 Posted by Wyldsong (5179 posts) - - Show Bio

As I recall didn't Spidey get a strength upgrade in the "Other" story line in addition to more powers only to have them go away after that story line was over?

He lost all of the Other upgrades. Kaine now possess the abilities of the Other.

#22 Posted by segamarvel (570 posts) - - Show Bio

"Sigh" Can someone please help me figure out the issues to those feats he mentioned earlier? Also while were at it. Can anyone also tell me what issue the "hundreds of times my body weight" came from?

#23 Posted by SavageDragon (2248 posts) - - Show Bio

Spiderman has always been able to mess up Logan

#24 Posted by segamarvel (570 posts) - - Show Bio

I just read the new digital comic "The Amazing Spider-Man: Who Am I?". As you can tell from the title Peter loses his memory and has no clue who he is. Now here's the cool part. He fights Iron Man and actually manages to hurt him! Tony even says when Pete elbowed him "That... actually hurt". Peter then ends up punching Tony's face plate right off! He says "I had no idea you were this strong" and Spidey replies "me neither".

#26 Posted by Strider92 (16163 posts) - - Show Bio
#27 Posted by segamarvel (570 posts) - - Show Bio

@segamarvel: You got a scan of this? I'm interested.

I just bought the issue off of my kindle fire. If I can figure out how to transfer the pages to here I will try (do you know how?). He basically tore through Tony's armor until Tony was in just his civilian clothes.

#28 Edited by Lvenger (18521 posts) - - Show Bio

I just read the new digital comic "The Amazing Spider-Man: Who Am I?". As you can tell from the title Peter loses his memory and has no clue who he is. Now here's the cool part. He fights Iron Man and actually manages to hurt him! Tony even says when Pete elbowed him "That... actually hurt". Peter then ends up punching Tony's face plate right off! He says "I had no idea you were this strong" and Spidey replies "me neither".

Seriously? I have to admit that's too much of a strength feat for even Spidey to perform. I haven't objected to the validity of the feats posted by @strider92 and others that have occurred in Spider-Man's recent history. But hurting a class 100 Iron Man is just as PISy as Spider-Man blitzing Firelord to the ground. There's a difference between high end strength feats and performing stunts that should be way out of Spider-Man's street class.

#29 Posted by segamarvel (570 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: I knew that even before I said it. But my inner fanboy just had to at least bring it up. To be fair though Peter did at least weaken stark by getting him to blast himself with his own repulsors.

#30 Posted by Lvenger (18521 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: I knew that even before I said it. But my inner fanboy just had to at least bring it up. To be fair though Peter did at least weaken stark by getting him to blast himself with his own repulsors.

Well at least there's some context to this feat. Still overpowering Iron Man is a bit much to believe currently.

#31 Edited by segamarvel (570 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: Maybe, but you gotta admit this isn't the first time Peter has managed to get the upper hand on an Iron Man (Cough Iron man 2020 cough). To be fair it depends on your perspective. I like to have Spidey comfortably sitting at 25 to 30 tons in my head. Stark is stronger but he has been beaten by far weaker. A class 25 Mallen did manage to beat Pre Extremis iron Man. Although I will admit these are just some low showings.

#32 Posted by Strider92 (16163 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: To be fair Spider-man did punch off Tony's mask during Civil War so this isn't a new feat per se.

#33 Edited by Lvenger (18521 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: To be fair Spider-man did punch off Tony's mask during Civil War so this isn't a new feat per se.

Didn't he still have the amped stats from The Other story arc back then? I thought his amped stats got taken away by OMD.

#34 Posted by segamarvel (570 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92: Thank you for backing me up on this one. That feat completely slipped my mind until now.

#35 Posted by segamarvel (570 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: Didn't Spidey manage to tear through Scorpions upgraded armor(which was strong enough to withstand a fall of maximum velocity)?

#36 Edited by Strider92 (16163 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: True he did have his other back then. However while the other was a confirmed amp. Pete didn't exceed anything he wasn't previously capable of with it. Holding up the daily bugle, pulling down two buildings with webbing during a fight with venom and lifting a train for example all of which were accomplished pre-other. While the other was confirmed to have increased his base strength the upper limits of Spider-man's normal strength has been a grey area to begin with.

#37 Posted by Lvenger (18521 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: Didn't Spidey manage to tear through Scorpions upgraded armor(which was strong enough to withstand a fall of maximum velocity)?

Which issue are you taking about on this point?

@lvenger: True he did have his other back then. However while the other was a confirmed amp. Pete didn't exceed anything he wasn't previously capable of with it. Holding up the daily bugle, pulling down two buildings with webbing during a fight with venom and lifting a train for example all of which were accomplished pre-other. While the other was confirmed to have increased his base strength the upper limits of Spider-man's normal strength has been a grey area to begin with.

Fair analysis. Still the stat boost was a prevalent factor in that fight with Iron Man. I definitely agree Spider-Man's consistent strength level hasn't been crystal clear for some time but overpowering Extremis Iron Man and even this recent Iron Man is somewhat hard to take in for even a top street leveller like Spidey.

#38 Edited by segamarvel (570 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: I'm just saying. Scorpions armor was supposed to be pretty tough and yet Peter ripped right through it rather easily. Also another factor in the fight was that Peter managed to trick Tony into flying into the ground and walls and hit him with a truck, all of this on top of the other things that was said must have started to take a toll on Tony. He had also used his "sticky fingers" to help pull off Tony's armor piece by piece.

#39 Posted by Lvenger (18521 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: I'm just saying. Scorpions armor was supposed to be pretty tough and yet Peter ripped right through it rather easily. Also another factor in the fight was that Peter managed to trick Tony into flying into the ground and walls and hit him with a truck, all of this on top of the other things that was said must have started to take a toll on Tony. He had also used his "sticky fingers" to help pull off Tony's armor piece by piece.

I haven't seen the scans myself so you're in a better place to judge the feats than I am. If Peter wore him down, that's at least a bit more believable in helping him gain an edge over Tony.

#40 Edited by segamarvel (570 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: There was another example of Peter hurting someone out of his class. He managed to actually hurt Ben Grim. The reason was explained that Peter was pumped with so much adrenaline that I guess it made him strong enough to do it. The only reason I'm comparing this is because Peter's Spider-sense warns him of danger, which is an extension of the "fight or flight" syndrome and automatically prepares his body depending on how big the threat is. I'll Admit Peter wasn't scared of Tony or angry but maybe the Spider-sense had a hand in Peter hurting him.

#41 Posted by Lvenger (18521 posts) - - Show Bio

@segamarvel: I'd say the adrenaline and high end stakes of the feat is what caused Peter to actually hurt Angrir. Though to be honest, I haven't seen Spidey hurt base Thing so harming an amped Thing makes little sense.

#42 Posted by Wolverine08 (39026 posts) - - Show Bio

No.

#43 Posted by segamarvel (570 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: Was Ben really amped? I just thought he was being mind controlled. He didn't hurt him much, but still he hurt him.

#44 Posted by Lvenger (18521 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: Was Ben really amped? I just thought he was being mind controlled. He didn't hurt him much, but still he hurt him.

No he was amped. The hammers turned Sin, a street level daughter of Red Skull into a top tier powerhouse. The hammers definitely amped whoever held them as the entire X-Men couldn't beat Kuurth and Thor struggled more than usual with Null, the amped Hulk.

#45 Edited by Bezza (3422 posts) - - Show Bio

Not sure he has had a power upgrade, when did he last do this sort of thing?

#46 Posted by segamarvel (570 posts) - - Show Bio

@bezza: Well he did beat a 5 tonner with a flick. Plus beating up Giants is nothing to sneeze at. On top of that Peter was able to punch Scorpions jaw off. Even without armor Gargan has superhuman durability which means Peter must be tougher and stronger then he is now.

#47 Posted by Bezza (3422 posts) - - Show Bio

Good to hear it, I must admit I have a lot of Spiderman reading to catch up on, so loads of stuff I've missed.

#48 Edited by segamarvel (570 posts) - - Show Bio

@bezza: That's good to hear. welcome back to the franchise. Peter actually has very good striking power that is above 10-20 tons. My belief is that Peter is a 25 tonner that has striking force many times that. Peter's speed probably helps him hurt stronger opponents. His combat speed is 40x faster then a normal human. This means he throws punches that are faster then the speed of sound on top of his already fairly decent level of strength. The feat of Spidey catching a 27 ton armored car is just a casual feat and not even a high end one. Peter even managed to KO a man with Adamantium skin (something Tony does not have) Peter didn't hurt his skin but he caused enough internal damage to the guys brain to knock him out.

#49 Edited by segamarvel (570 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92: I found it. Even if you don't agree with it, it's still is awesome and should be enjoyed. I don't even care if it's PIS that fight made Spidey look like a badass.

#50 Posted by Strider92 (16163 posts) - - Show Bio

@segamarvel: I don't necessarily disagree with it entirely. Iron Man beats Spider-man because he has a wealth of high-powered ordanance and incredible flight speed. Without those he's basically a high-end tonner with good durability. Spider-man has taken beatings from multiple high level tonners and kept going such as Rhino, Hulk, Thing etc... and tearing Tony's suit apart is consistent with Spider-man as Parker tore his armor in Civil War too. In a confined space and going all out Peter could tear Tony's suit off him as he has on multiple occaisons.

While this is a good showing on Parker's side Iron Man wasn't going all out with his heavy weapons. Whether this is OOC I don't know but the only thing that is PIS here really is that Tony drew the fight out and didn't use his best weapons. Spider-man physically tearing Iron Man's armor off isn't PIS.

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