Carlie's pre & post investigation of Ock as SSM(Spoilers)

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#1 Edited by animehunter (1817 posts) - - Show Bio

We all know by now that Carlie has figured things out and she knows Doc Ock is Spider-man, and after what happened in Superior Spider-Man #8, if feels like Slott is setting it up for Carlie to oust SpOcK, at least that's how it looks to me. So I set this thread up to explore that possibility.

In case you don't know what I'm on about, it all started in The Amazing Spider-Man #700 - Dying Wish: Suicide Run; Spider-Dreams; Date Night

Where Peter in Ocks body tries to convince her of who he really is, unsuccessfully

But the seed of doubt had been planted.

Afterwards we see Carlie beginning to have doubts in Superior Spider-Man #2 - The Peter Principle

with these panels we see what Peter said in 700 take root and has placed doubt on what she might have considered ludicrous.

or the way she said it - Crazy-town banana pants

After that she no longer had those doubts when she got confirmation! in Superior Spider-Man #3 - Everything You Know is Wrong

With these pages, what he did to the Vulture, whatever doubts she may have thought was Crazy-town banana pants has disappeared and now she knows for a fact that it's not Peter under the Mask but Doc Ock, even though she doesn't come out and say it.

At this stage I was now wondering if her life was in danger from Doc Ock if he was to suspect she knew.

Next we have full confirmation of what she knows with the release of Superior Spider-Man #8 - Troubled Mind Part Two: Proof Positive

Issue 6
Issue 8

With this single page, which in my opinion was the best of the whole issue (the rest are Crazy-town banana pants) we have 100% confirmation that she knows for a fact that it's Doc Ock under the mask and not Peter.

But questions remain

1- Who was she talking to?
Maybe 616s Miles Morales or more likely Vin Gonzales

We now know from issue 10 who she spoke to

With Issue 10s release we find it's actually Captain Watanabe

2- How will she scientifically prove what she knows to be true?
Could she get a hold of the data the Avengers collected or the Golden Octobot

3- Will she get anyone else to help her expose the truth?
Mary Jane - Would really love to see them team-up, especially after what she saw SpOck do in Superior Spider-Man #6 - Joking Hazard, when she says "Peter? There's no way that's.... (Note the Question Mark) could mean she is now finally realising something is terribly wrong and is open to the possibility it's not Peter under the mask, if so, about time too, I don't know what Slott's playing at with her.

Black Widow
Maybe Black Cat
And EVER the naive optimist I am, Silver Sable
The Avengers
Possibly, but not likely, Aunt May

With Superior Spider-Man #10 - Independence Day she gets a ally in her mission to expose Superior Spider-man, We also have Mary Jane FINALLY beginning to have her own doubts about spider-man and what happens to her in this issues only goes to give them justification. Hopefully this means that Mary Jane will approach Carlie tell her her doubts, resulting in Carlie telling her what she knows and they end up working together in order to put a stop to SpOck

Issue 10

We see on this page Captain Watanabe, who apparently was the one Carlie spoke with on the phone with back in issue 8, questioning the officers about the shooting of Massacre by SSM.

And has allied herself with Carlie in order to expose SpOck.

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As a result of the events in Superior Spider-Man #14 - A Blind Eye, We see in Superior Spider-Man #15 - Run, Goblin, Run! Part 1 of 2: The Tinkerer's Apprentice that Carlie along with Captain Watanabe as the Wraith, now have an avenue of investigation that could lead to SpOck exposure. As for Captain Watanabe, now that it seems she fully on the side of Carlie's thinking about SSM, she will begin her own investigation, in conjunction with Carlie's.

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Mary Jane also seems to be coming round to the idea that Peter's not Peter. but like Carlie seems to need another push in order for her to do something, like approach Carlie about her doubts.

With Superior Spider-Man #16 - Run, Goblin, Run! Part 2 of 2, and with the aid of Wraith/Yuri Watanabe,The next phase of the investigation seems to have gotten of with what looks like a solid lead.

Anyone fancy a trip to the Caymans?

Superior Spider-man #16-1
Superior Spider-man #16-2
Superior Spider-man #16
Although might not happen, there is a possibility that Norah Winters becomes the second person to join Carlie in her investigation of SpOck, as a result of being fired from the Bugle, because of her not only being the girlfriend of Phil Urich aka Hobgoblin, but all the stories she put forward about the Hobgoblin came from Phil himself.

Finally, Carlie has the proof she needs to expose SpOck for the fake he is, whether it's enough we'll have to wait and see, with Superior Spider-Man #19 we see her at the Caymans, chasing down who we can assume is the banker who handles the bank accounts of the villains in the Marvel universe.

Superior Spider-man #19-1
Superior Spider-man #19-2
In these pages we see both Carlie & Yuri/Wraith chasing down the man the handles the bank accounts of numerous villains
Superior Spider-man #19-4

In this page, we see catching the man in the process to destroying records and find where those that prove that the money that was paying for all the equipment SpOck used to take down Shadowland came from the account of Doctor Otto Gunther Octavius.

Whether or not this is enough convince certain individuals of this we will have to wait and see, for a defence attorney could state that Spider-man found the account and instead of handing it over decided to use the funds to fight crime, weak, yes, but plausible.

This could also put a different spin to Black Cats involvement in issue #20, although a theory, it could be that Carlie hires Black Cat to find even more evidence.

Superior Spider-man #19-3

In this page we finally see Mary Jane being the woman we all know she is, someone who is strong and takes charge of her life, although she has not caught on to who "Peter" really is, at least, as a result of him avoiding her and showing he no longer cares for her, has cut ties to him completely and decided to move on without him, what this could mean once Peter returns, we can only wait and see.

And with her involvement in the Darkest Hours Arc we can surmise, at the very least a good guess, that she finally learns the truth from Carlie herself.

Issue 23 - More with MJ! More with Carlie

Issue 24 - MJ’s greatest fear!

And of course let's not forget, her, I'm certain, definite involvement in the upcoming Goblin Nation arc, starting Issue 26

With Superior Spider-Man #20, we see Carlie stating that she has the evidence she needs to take to the Avengers, hopefully that would be enough for them, at the very least it might get them to start their own investigation in SpOck.

Superior Spider-man #20-1
Superior Spider-man #20-2

Here we see Carlie stating that she has the evidence to take to the Avengers and now that she has proof, is warning MJ to keep away from Peter.

As a result it looks like SpOck could lose loose everything, unfortunately he might not be the only victim as a result of the investigation.

It's also looks like this is the seed of where Carlie would go to see MJ, in order to explain the message she left.

Unfortunately looks like Wraith (Captain Watanabe) involvement with this investigation seemed to have come to an end.

Superior Spider-man #20-3
Superior Spider-man #20-4
Superior Spider-man #20-5

With what happened to Black Cat here, one would wonder what she'll do to get back at Spider-man, would she approach MJ to find out what's going on with him and why he did what he did and as a result of Carlie possibly telling MJ of what she finds, she herself finds out that he isn't who he is.

Or, is this something that will fester in her for a while and we only see her retaliate only after Peter returns, and Peter not knowing what it's all about.

With Superior Spider-Man #21, we see Carlie visiting Peter grave, discovering it was and empty being abducted by Menace.

Superior Spider-man #21-1
Superior Spider-man #21-2

Here we see Carlie visiting the grave of Peter, ready to expose SpOck. Only to find out the grave is empty and worst still being abducted by Menace.

So the questions here are

  1. Why is the grave empty
  2. Where is the body
  3. When was it taken
  4. Who took it
Superior Spider-man #21-3

As to the question as to why Menace abducted Carlie, we find out that she was keeping tabs on her and that she knows what Carlie knows and now the Goblin as well.

Does what happened to Carlie lead to this

"With one last goblin on his side, the Goblin King’s court is now complete!" Issue 25

Maybe if Greeny persuades Carlie to join his ranks, by promising to take down SpOck or, and I hope not, brainwashing her

With Superior Spider-Man #22 - Darkest Hours, Part 1 of 4 we see Captain Watanabe/Wraith visiting Carlies apartment, finding Carlie missing and her apartment ransacked and we also see JJ Jameson figuring out how to get out of blackmailed by SpOck.

Superior Spider-man #22-1

On this page Captain Watanabe/Wraith visits Carlies apartment as she has not been able to contact her, only to find the apartment ransacked and the evidence Carlie gathered proving who SpOck really is missing.

Understandably, she comes to wrong conclusion that SpOck was behind Carlie being missing and has vowed, as the Wraith, to bring in SpOck Dead or Alive.

Superior Spider-man #22-2
Here we see JJ Jameson, still under the thumb of SpOck, coming up with something that , from his reaction will free him from SpOck.

-----UPDATE-----

With Superior Spider-Man #23 - Darkest Hours, Part 2 of 4: Complications We Carlie in the hand of the Goblin King, Captain Watanabe/Wraith visiting Mary Jane to question her and JJ Jameson heading over to Alchemax to get Liz Allan to build him Spider Slayer in order to combat SpOck.

Superior Spider-man #23-1
Here we see Carlie being interrogated by the Goblin King & Menace, in order to find the identity of Spider-man.
Superior Spider-man #23-2
Superior Spider-man #23-3

Here we see Captain Watanabe/Wraith visiting Mary Jane at the re-opening of her club to ask her about the message left by Carlie and find out if Mary Jane knew what it was really about.

This is also the first time Mary Jane hears the message offers to call "Peter" but is warned not to and that Peter is a person of interest in Carlie's disappearance.

Superior Spider-man #23-4
Superior Spider-man #23-5

Here we see JJ Jameson visiting Alchemax to get Liz Allan

to build Spider Slayers and she put both Tiberius Stone & Spider-Man 2099, on the project to build them.

With Superior Spider-Man #24 - Darkest Hours, Part 3 of 4: Complications, we witness the interrogation of Carlie by Menace and later by the Goblin King, and due to her resistance to the interrogation the Goblin King decides to expedite matters by dosing her with Goblin Formula and thus turning her into one of goblin knights, then we have Mary Jane trying to contact Carlie to find out about the message she left, while at the same time visiting Aunt May only to find "Peter" going off on her, after which she takes "Peter" to the balcony and gives him the riot act, only to be face to her GREATEST FEAR, Venom. She is later taken by Captain Watanabe/Wraith for questioning regarding "Peter" and on the way she contacts the Avengers for help.

Superior Spider-man #24-1
Superior Spider-man #24-2
Here we see the interrogation of Carlie by Menace and later by the Goblin King, and due to her resistance to the interrogation, the Goblin King decides to expedite matters by dosing her with Goblin Formula and thus turning her into one of goblin knights.
Superior Spider-man #24-3
Superior Spider-man #24-4
Superior Spider-man #24-5
Here we see we have Mary Jane trying to contact Carlie to find out about the message she left, while at the same time visiting Aunt May only to find "Peter" going off on her, after which she takes "Peter" to the balcony and gives him the riot act, only to be face to her GREATEST FEAR, Venom.
Superior Spider-man #24-6
Superior Spider-man #24-7
She is taken by Captain Watanabe/Wraith for questioning regarding "Peter" and on the way she contacts the Avengers for help.

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With all that has happened, do you think Carlie will be able to expose SpOck for the fake he is and when could it happen

or

will SpOck do something that puts a stop to her investigation if he ever found out, either by getting J. Jonah Jameson to intervene, as he seems to LOVE this more brutal spider-man or (I really hope not) do something more permanent like framing her for a crime or killing her.

Especially since he has the following at his disposal

  1. Over $50 million in secret accounts.
  2. The backing of the Mayor & Police force, as he is black
  3. Access to Horizon labs & his own secret laboratories.
  4. The program created by Uatu Jackson to find anyone in the city.
  5. His spider-bots patrolling the city.

And now with Superior Spider-Man #13 - No Escape Part Three: The Slayers & The Slain, he now has even more of a hold on the Mayor Jameson

Superior Spider-man #12
Superior Spider-man #13

Just a quick note someone already knows all the details, but won't/can't do anything because it's not their jurisdiction

Avenging Spider-man 17
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#2 Posted by M3th (2050 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanks for the spoiler?

#3 Posted by Strider92 (16159 posts) - - Show Bio

Yet more Carlie pushing from Slott........

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#4 Posted by thegenericmister (40 posts) - - Show Bio

I really don't know how to feel about this bloody character anymore :/

#5 Posted by Moonchilde (1601 posts) - - Show Bio

Yet more Carlie pushing from Slott........

^ This.

God I hate this "superior" crap.

#6 Posted by muhabba (293 posts) - - Show Bio

Seems like she being set up to be killed off.

#7 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (11154 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92 said:

Yet more Carlie pushing from Slott........

^ This.

God I hate this "superior" crap.

Both of THESE!

#8 Edited by shadowtaker (66 posts) - - Show Bio

Superior Spider-man is just gimmick book

#9 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92 said:

Yet more Carlie pushing from Slott........

^ This.

God I hate this "superior" crap.

(THUMBS UP)

Agreed.

F*ck Slott.

#10 Posted by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

HEY, GUYS, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE HEARD BUT CARLIE COOPER IS SO PERFECT.

#11 Posted by darthfury78 (769 posts) - - Show Bio

The only other people who would know that Superior Spider-Man isn't Peter are Carol Danvers, Wolverine, Jessica Drew, and Julia Carpenter. Quite convenient for Slott to kill off Silver Sable as she would have learned the truth. And Black Cat would have known right away; which is why I doubt that she'll be in Spider-Man's world anytime soon. And this would be in addition to Carlie Cooper, Mary Jane, and Peter Parker's ghost!!!

#12 Posted by joshmightbe (24697 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthfury78: Dr. Strange should be able to see right through it as well

#13 Edited by animehunter (1817 posts) - - Show Bio
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#14 Edited by PunyParker (9020 posts) - - Show Bio

If she surprisingly proves to herself that he's Pete and everything's ok,like the Avengers....(stupid) all Spidey fans will,probably be like this....

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#15 Edited by danhimself (22313 posts) - - Show Bio

I really doubt that it's Miles Morales....Marvel has stated a lot here lately that they don't have anything planned for that right now....if and when that comes up I'm guessing that it will be in either the Spider-men sequel or another future sequel or after Slott's run on Spider-man

#16 Edited by animehunter (1817 posts) - - Show Bio

Just a quick note someone already knows all the details, but won't/can't do anything because it's not their jurisdiction

Avenging Spider-man 17
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#17 Posted by Arkhamc1tizen (2116 posts) - - Show Bio

its how peters gonna come back

#18 Edited by karrob (4278 posts) - - Show Bio

Can't wait until he comes back...I think its a nice change of pace but enough is enough

#19 Edited by Teerack (5426 posts) - - Show Bio

Doc Ock is also recollecting The Sinister Six in Avenger Spider-Man.

And so far he's collecting them in the order they were defeated to. First he caught Electro, then Sand Man, and he's currently going after Chameleon, so next will most likely be Mysterio, and then finish with Rhino who will probably tie into the reveal about what exactly happened to Silver Sable.

#20 Posted by akbogert (3202 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, I'm confused, particularly since I don't read Spider-Man, but I have been looking into Silver Sable for a while (she showed up somewhere else and piqued my interest) and I wouldn't mind if someone could clarify where exactly it is she supposedly died?

#21 Edited by animehunter (1817 posts) - - Show Bio
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#22 Edited by animehunter (1817 posts) - - Show Bio
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#23 Posted by Teerack (5426 posts) - - Show Bio

@animehunter: That doesn't even make sense :P What did Carlie do to Captain Watanabe? >.<

Watanabe and DeWolff were both two of my favorite Spider-Man supporting characters. I wish Watanabe didn't disappear after OMD.

#24 Posted by animehunter (1817 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack: It goes back to ASM issues 663 & 664

Quoted from her profile

When she adopted the identity of the Wraith , using Mysterio equipment, including a mask of Jean DeWolff he intended to use later, and Mr.Fear's fear gas. She had acquired these items from an evidence room at police headquarters after an old pumpkin bomb "accidentally" went off and seemingly destroyed the equipment. She used the Wraith identity and Jean DeWolff mask, as well as the fear gas, to fight crime and scare criminals into confessions. This (And the smoke emmiting equipment of Mysterio's) helped convey her as a spirit of vengeance back from the grave to terrorize the New York City criminal underworld.

Carlie Cooper revealed to Yuri that she'd been tracking Captain Watanabe with her phone, which she'd placed into Watanabe's pocket at an earlier time. This helped Cooper piece together that the new Wraith and Watanabe were one and the same. She refused to reveal who Watanabe really was, since she felt the Wraith/Watanabe was one of the good guys, and because Watanabe could be in danger should her secret get out. Little did they know that Spider-Man was nearby, monitoring their whole conversation. Cooper suggested Watanabe and the Wraith disappear for a while, to which she agreed. Whether she actually follows Cooper's advice or not remains to be seen.

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#25 Edited by Teerack (5426 posts) - - Show Bio

I think that Kaine might be finding out Peter isn't Peter soon to.

Superior Spider-Man Team-Up 2 - August , 2013

SIBLING RIVALRY BEGINS HERE!

  • Because you demanded it! Parker versus Parker! The Superior Spider-Man Versus Scarlet Spider!
  • Kaine has come to New York to check on Peter’s ‘superior’ behavior, not realizing Doc Ock has taken over Peter’s life. But Ock sure knows who Kaine is...Kaine, the man who once KILLED Doctor Octopus. And now it’s payback time.

Scarlet Spider 20 - August , 2013

SIBLING RIVALRY -- PART TWO!

  • Scarlet Spider has come to New York City to check on his ‘brother’ Spider-Man! But their reunion has been interrupted by an army of mutant spider-clones!
  • Can Spider-Man and Kaine put aside their differences to deal with the Jackal?

Scarlet Spider 21 - August , 2013

INTO THE GRAVE PART 1 (of 3)

  • After last issue’s shocking ending, everything has changed for Kaine. His second chance at life is over.
  • At his lowest point, he comes face to face with the one man that’s fueled his obsession, hate and guilt his entire life... BEN REILLY.

IDK 21 seems a little to huge a moment for Superior to not be rapped up in the middle of it. The fact that Kaine, Ben, and Jackal will all be meeting Superior soon to me is a big deal considering they know Peter better then anyone else could hope to. I think this will all tie into the conclusion of SSM, so you might wanna recap it when it comes out.

#26 Posted by Teerack (5426 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack: It goes back to ASM issues 663 & 664

Quoted from her profile

When she adopted the identity of the Wraith , using Mysterio equipment, including a mask of Jean DeWolff he intended to use later, and Mr.Fear's fear gas. She had acquired these items from an evidence room at police headquarters after an old pumpkin bomb "accidentally" went off and seemingly destroyed the equipment. She used the Wraith identity and Jean DeWolff mask, as well as the fear gas, to fight crime and scare criminals into confessions. This (And the smoke emmiting equipment of Mysterio's) helped convey her as a spirit of vengeance back from the grave to terrorize the New York City criminal underworld.

Carlie Cooper revealed to Yuri that she'd been tracking Captain Watanabe with her phone, which she'd placed into Watanabe's pocket at an earlier time. This helped Cooper piece together that the new Wraith and Watanabe were one and the same. She refused to reveal who Watanabe really was, since she felt the Wraith/Watanabe was one of the good guys, and because Watanabe could be in danger should her secret get out. Little did they know that Spider-Man was nearby, monitoring their whole conversation. Cooper suggested Watanabe and the Wraith disappear for a while, to which she agreed. Whether she actually follows Cooper's advice or not remains to be seen.


Oh yeah.... one of Carlies dumber moments.

#27 Edited by animehunter (1817 posts) - - Show Bio
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#28 Edited by JasonHawke (1112 posts) - - Show Bio

I like it. At least someone's been actively looking into SpOck. This is getting juicer and juicer.

#29 Edited by w0nd (2951 posts) - - Show Bio

is there an actual issue where he gets the costume change or am i missing something

#30 Posted by BigTimeSpider (44 posts) - - Show Bio

Can't wait until Carlie reveals SpOck's secret.

#31 Posted by angelalfonso (969 posts) - - Show Bio
@w0nd said:

is there an actual issue where he gets the costume change or am i missing something

Yes, in issue 14 but it was not explain in any way

#32 Posted by captain_oblivious (102 posts) - - Show Bio

@animehunter: Let's add some Parker luck. Instead of this realization leading to the unmasking of SpOck it brings about accusations against Parker and Spider-Man that he's been stealing all this time while fighting crime. How else was a high school kid later barely successful photographer able to keep making spider fluid and other accessories? Just a thought as nothing will go easily.

#33 Posted by PunyParker (9020 posts) - - Show Bio

@animehunter: Let's add some Parker luck. Instead of this realization leading to the unmasking of SpOck it brings about accusations against Parker and Spider-Man that he's been stealing all this time while fighting crime. How else was a high school kid later barely successful photographer able to keep making spider fluid and other accessories? Just a thought as nothing will go easily.

Good one.

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#34 Posted by Bokkie (83 posts) - - Show Bio

Did I just read, Ben Reilly ?? :o

#35 Posted by darthfury78 (769 posts) - - Show Bio

I wish that Spider-Woman and Black Widow would have figured this out as well. But I predict that Superior Spider-Man will have a future storyline where he rules the Earth.

#36 Posted by angelalfonso (969 posts) - - Show Bio

@bokkie:

Yes, Ben is suppose to come back after sibling rivalry in scarlet spider 20 and 21 but I believe that is not Ben but spidercide after all it was never explain what happened to him.

#38 Posted by animehunter (1817 posts) - - Show Bio

I've updated Carlie's investigation above.

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#39 Posted by Lestenya (29 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack said:

Doc Ock is also recollecting The Sinister Six in Avenger Spider-Man.

And so far he's collecting them in the order they were defeated to. First he caught Electro, then Sand Man, and he's currently going after Chameleon, so next will most likely be Mysterio, and then finish with Rhino who will probably tie into the reveal about what exactly happened to Silver Sable.

I also noticed this, however a friend pointed out that getting Mysterio is near impossible considering...

#40 Posted by PunyParker (9020 posts) - - Show Bio

@animehunter: U call that investigation?....it's mindless panels thru 16 issues,leading to f*cking nowhere!

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#41 Posted by captain_oblivious (102 posts) - - Show Bio

@punyparker: It's still an ongoing investigation. It's not like they're going to find solid evidence immediately. They have to search without raising SpOck's suspicions they're investigating him. He's already shown he'll go after Parker's family in ASM 700. Carlie can't go to the Avengers with her exchange with Doc Ock. The Avengers don't know her and she doesn't know who on the Avengers Parker has trusted with his civilian identity. She can't go to MJ as there is no evidence. Even if MJ believes, she can't do anything about it without becoming a target herself. Any accusation presented to a super-hero by MJ or Carlie now would result in super-heroes either confronting SpOck directly, giving away their hand, or following SpOck around, which won't reveal anything other than SpOck going after villains instead of sitting around waiting for villains to attack.

Remember, there's no real evidence that SpOck is not Parker. Mood/attitude changes are not enough to justify holding a person and doing invasive searches into their mind and body. If every week you went out to drinks at a bar with friends and one person always drank beer and spent his time checking whatever game the bar had on the tube and one week it changed, would you freak out? If instead of drinking beer he ordered long islands and instead of sitting watching the game he was speaking to some of the other patrons and hitting on some of the women, would you call the police and demand an investigation saying your friend has been replaced?

From the Spider-Man angle, he has not disappeared to cause suspicion of a body switch. At the time of the personality change, he had Doc Ock die, a person who was one of his first villains and rarely has a Spider-Man villain died in battle with him. Coupled with the death of Marla Jameson and the recent death of Silver Sable, could easily be explained he is being more mature in super-heroing. No more jokes, more efficient at utilizing the tools he built at Horizon, doing what he has to to protect innocents. The Avengers have tools to detect known threats and have confronted him regarding out of the norm behavior. They aren't his father and even their actions would come under circumspect at times. And I'm sure they prefer the lack of jokes in a time of seriousness.

From the Parker angle, Carlie has circumstantial evidence to support her thinking. MJ should know something is off when Parker called her "woman" in ASM 700 and subsequent denigrating comments about others from SSM 2. With the beat down of Jester and Speedball, she should know something is not right. Aunt May is getting a nephew who finally has his act together. A good job at Horizon (which she helped him get) and is pursuing his doctorate. She doesn't have to worry about him trying to get dangerous photos to pay his rent. He may be too busy to call her but it's a busy she feels comfortable with since she knows where he should be.

Until Carlie's investigation comes up with something solid linking SpOck to Doc Ock or a hero questions why SpOck is acting like they never met before, there is no evidence of any body switching or mind tampering having taken place. (Kaine should have been wondering why SpOck referred to himself as Spider-Man when they fought)

#42 Edited by PunyParker (9020 posts) - - Show Bio

@captain_oblivious: When you post it ,it has all seriousness and makes perfect sense,and i tend to agree with you.But if you see the panels,Carlie's "investigating",it's mindless,and stupid.Remember the pages where she and Watanabe(witch is a name used in 80's ASM,for a house salesman...writer:David Michelinie...look it up.) are questioning the cops,on wheather Spider killed or not Massacre....really?....honest police work?.....there are tons of videos of witnesses capturing the moment Spider-Man shot in the head and killed a person.....and you believe the cops who are denying that?....they should've fired those security guards,yesterday for fraud and suppress of evidence!

The Jester&Screwball beeting just must have gotten her attention,and if she was already suspicious that's something's wrong with Peter,she would have been buzzed up about this.But no.She's not even in the issue.

He killed Smithe on the Raft,that too must have gotter her immediate attention,but she's absent in issues 8-14 where he kills SpiderSlayer and gets rid of "Peter's mind"(i stll believe it's Otto's subconsiousness....Peter is written too bitchy and Slott,wrote him good in ASM....it's done on purpose.) and that's weird.

And the latest piece of investigation we have is Carlie searchng through his,or his henchmen bank accounts,to find where he got the money for the robots and equipment.Well....first of all he got it from the Mayor,and she knows that he has(or had...they already argued) good partnership with him,so when/if she finds it,in a dozen of issues,it wont be a surprise.Besides she asked him in issue 14(or 15) where he gets the money and Otto replied:"Ask the Mayor"......he responded honestly,so she is investigating to find something she already knows.

I'm trying to say it's a meaningless subplot(so far) which has led to nowhere,like ghost Pete.Hopes,but nothing more.

P.S. How DARE you make a such a HUUUUGE mistake by writing Screwball's name as "Speedball"!!!......you have wasted a villian's name,so crucial for Spider-Man's history!...you undersand?!....She's up there with Green Goblin!...HELL,Green Goblin is up there with her!......i will not tolerate any more of those gigantic mistakes,young man!....(the sarcasm in these 2 lines was clear,right?...)

P.S.2. "(Kaine should have been wondering why SpOck referred to himself as Spider-Man when they fought)" Search the "Superior Spider-Man discussion" topic,you'll find that i was the first who touched upon this topic! :)

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#43 Edited by animehunter (1817 posts) - - Show Bio

@punyparker: @captain_oblivious: Few Corrections

Smythe not Smithe

We still don't really know about Silver Sable as her body was never recovered, so I will stick with her being alive according to Julia Carpenter

Amazing Spider-man #690-1
Amazing Spider-man #690-2

Regarding how he paid for his equipment when he attacked the King-pin, he didn't have the backing of the Mayor until he forced Jameson after he made his move, so the city wasn't involved yet. also she found out that the money used to pay one of SpOcks men came from an off-shore account in the Caymans.

Superior Spider-man #14
Superior Spider-man #15-1
Superior Spider-man #15-2
Superior Spider-man #16-1
Superior Spider-man #16-2

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#44 Posted by captain_oblivious (102 posts) - - Show Bio

@animehunter: I'm really screwing up my spider facts. I'm going by Parker's perspective. Though Carpenter told him she is alive, in his mind he believes she is dead as we saw when he went to "Heaven".

@punyparker: I don't know if it's intentional but I'm wondering if Slott is showing the superhero wall, kind of like the police blue wall of silence. And that superheroes really don't have an internal investigations unit or procedures for when one of their own goes beyond what they tolerate. I'm sure there's evidence that shows SpOck shooting Massacre and witness statements, but they'll say it's justified case closed. It's Slott showing how far SpOck will go to protect innocents.

Interesting about Watanabe. That guy was introduced when Parker and MJ were married. It's unlikely he would remember them but considering MJ was a famous model at the time, maybe. Would they have been looking for a place together? An unmarried couple living in sin? Did that get retconned with BND/OMD or is Slott hinting about what could happen when Parker returns?

#45 Posted by ULTRAstarkiller (5967 posts) - - Show Bio

@m3th said:

Thanks for the spoiler?

#46 Posted by Spideysense44 (3045 posts) - - Show Bio

I hope she figures out soon

#47 Posted by PunyParker (9020 posts) - - Show Bio

@captain_oblivious: "@animehunter: I'm really screwing up my spider facts. I'm going by Parker's perspective."

Dude,me too......count me on that perspective.

"I don't know if it's intentional but I'm wondering if Slott is showing the superhero wall, kind of like the police blue wall of silence. And that superheroes really don't have an internal investigations unit or procedures for when one of their own goes beyond what they tolerate. I'm sure there's evidence that shows SpOck shooting Massacre and witness statements, but they'll say it's justified case closed. It's Slott showing how far SpOck will go to protect innocents."


You have read old SM books right?....you are a serious person,i assume you have.Well,then you will clearly remember that Venom/Eddie was all for protecting innocents too.Hell,he even helped Pete to defeat Carnage!....that has been done before,to show that a "villian" who thinks more of himself,is above killing innocent lives......you can never catch me,i am reading old Spidey these days and i'm at the Venom/Carnage issues!!...besides..
Venom Approves..
.

"Interesting about Watanabe. That guy was introduced when Parker and MJ were married. It's unlikely he would remember them but considering MJ was a famous model at the time, maybe. Would they have been looking for a place together? An unmarried couple living in sin? Did that get retconned with BND/OMD or is Slott hinting about what could happen when Parker returns?"

It's kind of irrelevant,as you see......i just wanted to point that Slott didnt thought the name himself.It's not innovating.

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#48 Posted by PaperDemon (602 posts) - - Show Bio

Thats what we should call him instead of spock... Do Cock. Fits him more.

#49 Edited by captain_oblivious (102 posts) - - Show Bio

@captain_oblivious: "@animehunter: I'm really screwing up my spider facts. I'm going by Parker's perspective."

Dude,me too......count me on that perspective.

"I don't know if it's intentional but I'm wondering if Slott is showing the superhero wall, kind of like the police blue wall of silence. And that superheroes really don't have an internal investigations unit or procedures for when one of their own goes beyond what they tolerate. I'm sure there's evidence that shows SpOck shooting Massacre and witness statements, but they'll say it's justified case closed. It's Slott showing how far SpOck will go to protect innocents."

You have read old SM books right?....you are a serious person,i assume you have.Well,then you will clearly remember that Venom/Eddie was all for protecting innocents too.Hell,he even helped Pete to defeat Carnage!....that has been done before,to show that a "villian" who thinks more of himself,is above killing innocent lives......you can never catch me,i am reading old Spidey these days and i'm at the Venom/Carnage issues!!...besides..

Venom Approves..

.

"Interesting about Watanabe. That guy was introduced when Parker and MJ were married. It's unlikely he would remember them but considering MJ was a famous model at the time, maybe. Would they have been looking for a place together? An unmarried couple living in sin? Did that get retconned with BND/OMD or is Slott hinting about what could happen when Parker returns?"

It's kind of irrelevant,as you see......i just wanted to point that Slott didnt thought the name himself.It's not innovating.

Venom/Eddie has killed innocents. He really didn't become an anti-hero (if that) until later. If it meant getting to Parker, he had no qualms with knocking people off.

It's implied he would even go after Aunt May.

I agree about Watanabe. I don't think Slott thought the name up. I meant I think the realtor Watanabe may be related to the detective. At some point we will see them together (Parker, MJ, Carlie, Det Watanabe, Realtor Watanabe) and the realtor may remember Parker, but would probably remember MJ since she was a popular model. I was joking about the living in sin part but was wondering if Parker and MJ were living together around that time. Still not sure how BND/OMD effected past situations between them. It's been mentioned Slott's been doing long term stories so I don't think that name was pulled out for no reason other than to name drop. Though I could be wrong.

#50 Posted by PunyParker (9020 posts) - - Show Bio

@captain_oblivious: But Eddie said that the death of the innocent was nessesary.He wouldnt do this.

Also about May,he clearly said he would NEVER harm that innocent woman,in many issues.

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