A Strider92 Rant: Thoughts On Superior Spider-Man

Posted by Strider92 (16027 posts) - - Show Bio

Well we've had quite a few appearances from Superior now and I felt it was time I gave my opinion on it. When Slott first announced what he was doing I like i'm sure many other people banged their head against the desk in disbelief. The idea seemed completely awful. Unlike quite a few people I wasn't so opposed to Peter getting replaced (as a lot of people were) my main problem was with how Slott did it.

  • A supervillain becoming Spider-man.....I could handle that sounds interesting.
  • Doc Ock becoming Spider-man........less interested now but I guess i'd give it a shot. A much cooler villain could have fitted this purpose better. (Alistair Smythe or Eddie Brock anyone?)
  • Someone taking over Peter Parker's body.......Now you're pushing it!

But the combo of all 3 made me hate the idea before it had even begun. However being the Spider-man fan-boy that I am I bit the bullet and gave the first issue a shot and I was honestly surprised by what I got. Although the idea I still found distasteful the story was executed pretty well. The further the series went the more I got to realize that it wasn't so much the story that was bad but the timing that was badly off!

Allow me to explain:

So that happened!?
Anyone else getting deja vu?

1. At the time of 616 Peter's death Ultimate Peter Parker (one of the best things about that universe) had barely climbed into his grave. People including myself were still sad at his departure and when it happened again 616 it left a bitter familiar taste in my mouth that had barely been washed away since the first time.

Oh that Kaine!
Oh that Pete.....wait what!?

2. Scarlet Spider another spider-themed series had also barely been going a year before Superior occurred. Scarlet Spider represented what Peter Parker would be like if he had a slightly less lenient view on how to deal with criminals and it was pretty refreshing to see. Superior Spider-man completely made that series redundant by doing the same thing only a year after it had begun and that really REALLY annoyed me.We had only just got a series where the possibility of Spider-man's morals not holding him back has been created and what happens in the ongoing title not a few months later? We get the same damn thing. now we have to really violent Spider-men which detracts from the variation we previously had.

3. The story happened on the 50th anniversary and i'm sorry but you've got to be one cold son of a ***** to do something that awful to a character on its 50th. Not to mention due to the movie reboot the series was already going to have problems as new readers who come from the films are going to have no idea whats going on when they see Friendly Neighborhood Spidey shooting people in the face or snapping their necks.

We had heard from Slott prior to the event that nothing like this had ever been done but forgive if i'm wrong but killing Peter and replacing him with a colder more violent Spider-man which are the main themes of Superior all happened before Superior that same year. We had Pete die in the Ult-verse and Kaine become a more violent version of Spider-man. Suffice to say this series biggest problem was timing. Slott highly misjudged (in my opinion) when to launch this series. If he had left it maybe a year or two before putting this on the table I could almost guarantee people would have been less pissed off. Granted a lot of people would still be a annoyed but the backlash would have been far less violent.

Bad-
A$$!

Ok having got that off my chest I can talk freely about the rest. Despite the awful timing this series has turned out a pretty top notch story and scenario. There are many things I like about Superior Spider-man but the one thing I like most is seeing him use his intelligence to its fullest. Slott touched on this previously in Amazing Spider-man but in Superior, Spider-man is not just a big physical threat but a very dangerous intellectual one as well. SpOck has shown that he can use his brain and thats pretty fun to see. Thus far my favorite moment in the Superior Spider-man series was SpOck taking over the Ultrons! Not only was it a credit to SpOck's intelligence but also a little nod to Ock's old ability of controlling machines.

Respect my authoritah!

Another thing that has been interesting is Spider-man's villains reactions to this new Spidey. Although a lot of classic villains have yet to turn up a few of them have had the misfortune of falling on this new Spider-man and have seen (and felt) the difference. I especially like the instance of some of the surrendering before even putting up a fight. This is something that villains would never do when faced with the old "Friendly Neighborhood Spider-man". I'm actually itching to see how the Green Goblin takes this new Spider-man after the teaser in issue 4.

Cocky and Corny
Cold and Calculating!

Although Slott's writing has been ok on Superior Spider-man its over in Avenging that Superior's character really shines. Now I may be a little biased due to Yost being my favorite writer but Slott seems to treat Ock as if he's writing a cheesy villain whereas Yost has thus far portrayed SpOck as far more cold calculating and controlled which in my opinion is how SpOck should be. He doesn't need to run around spouting big words and monologuing he needs to be calculating and articulate which is exactly how he is portrayed in Avenging. Superior in Avenging seems far more scary than the one in Superior. What Thor said about Spider-man regarding his enemies as problems to be solved is the exact type of cold behavior I would expect from SpOck and the SpOck i'm seeing in Superior does not have the same cold logical mind and speaks like a corny 80's villain. Its as if Superior Spider-man is U rated and Avenging is R rated in comparison. If Slott really does plan on making Superior a longtime running status quo he needs to take a leaf out of Avenging and make SpOck more threatening and less corny. Another thing to point out is that what keeps most people reading Superior is Pete's ghost hanging around and yet a lot of people still consider Avenging the superior (hah pun) title. Despite the fact ghost Peter has yet to make an appearance in it. That in itself says something.

Homo Superior?.....PUHLEASE!

Another thing i'm loving about this series is the humor. When I heard about what Slott was was going to do I thought all the humor from Spider-man would be gone and fortunately its not true. The humor is still there its just changed. Pete's humor is more slapstick and observational whereas SpOck has a much more caustic and sarcastic sense of humor and generally insults his allies and enemies in such an arrogant condescending way its hilarious. (Something tells me SpOck isn't joining Scott Summers mutant revolution!) Although he's mean and downright insulting sometimes I am growing to like this dry callous sense of humor and I think it fits the character well.

Boob-shot!!!!

I also quite like that Superior despite being villainous still has enough of Peter Parker's personality left in him to make him question his every move. For example he shows legitimate concern for Screwball when he thinks he's hurt her due to the fact he knew she wasn't really a villain and just someone out playing around........until she and her mate Jester pissed him off and he beat them to a bloody-pulp of course......but we'll ignore that for the moment!

Overall I think Superior Spider-man is a good idea with a lot of potential however it was executed prematurely and unfortunately is paying the price for it. Having said that i'm really enjoying the series as a whole and i'm interested to see where this leads especially as its been hinted that Spider-man may become the new leader of "The Hand". Superior Spider-man in charge of an army of nigh-unkillable ninjas? Sounds both awesome and bizarre at the same time!

#1 Posted by Lvenger (17855 posts) - - Show Bio

Wait when was it hinted SpOck would take over the Hand? I thought he wanted to get rid of the Hand and Shadowland! Anyway this is a very interesting post and one with which I find the points to be most enlightening. The timing is poor for SpOck as a concept and other factors aren't helping SpOck's popularity. Still I like the case you make for him, particularly the work Yost has done to improve SpOck's character. Great post Strider!

#2 Edited by Ninjablade09 (3077 posts) - - Show Bio

Great rant. You make some great points. This was a great read keep up the great work.

#3 Posted by Strider92 (16027 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: I'll try and find the comment. Superior is taking down the Kingpin who is of course the current leader of the Hand. Normally if you're defeated leadership of the hand passes to the person who beat you like it did with Daredevil. The comment was something like:

"Superior is taking down Shadowland but not in the way you expect. Something is going to happen that will completely change the status quo and the readers are going to love it"

Taking control of the Hand after beating the Kingpin would be a way of taking out Shadowland as well as drastically changing Spider-man. I wouldn't put it past Ock to try to take command of an army we've seen him lead the Sinister Six on many occasions.

#4 Posted by Lvenger (17855 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: I'll try and find the comment. Superior is taking down the Kingpin who is of course the current leader of the Hand. Normally if you're defeated leadership of the hand passes to the person who beat you like it did with Daredevil. The comment was something like:

"Superior is taking down Shadowland but not in the way you expect. Something is going to happen that will completely change the status quo and the readers are going to love it"

Taking control of the Hand after beating the Kingpin would be a way of taking out Shadowland as well as drastically changing Spider-man. I wouldn't put it past Ock to try to take command of an army we've seen him lead the Sinister Six on many occasions.

Ah that would make sense. I doubt Matt and the others would like it since we've seen once before what happens when someone tries to use the Hand for 'good.'

#5 Edited by Strider92 (16027 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: Good job SpOck isn't "good" per-say then lol but yeah if that really is the case I wonder how SpOck will deal with the whole Beast thing.

#6 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll toss in my thoughts later as you know how I felt about this going in, but this was incredible!

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#7 Posted by Sapperjak (66 posts) - - Show Bio

I have been battling my own thoughts as to if I actually like this series or not and after seeing my every thought and then some more awesome points written together in your post I am even more on the fence about it.

#8 Posted by TheAcidSkull (17135 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice blog man, and since we are talking about superior i might as well get my thoughts out there.

When i read the dying wish, i was disappointed, fact of the matter is that, it wasn't executed well. now I'm not saying that IDEA could have been bad( though it isn't great), but when something doesn't feel natural it collapses and the whole thing crumbles down. But still, i Wanted to give slott a chance, because i generally think that he is a good writer ( most of the time), but superior dropped in quality quickly, the second issue was terrible, and the rest was mediocre. The 7th was the best one so far, but the there are some serious issues i have with the book:

1. Peter Parkers Ghost- honestly, this was a bad idea. we all know peter would have returned one way or the other so why have him here just for the laughs? or why have him around just for the damn fans to shut up? sigh

2. The endless cycle- Now for the big bonanza, Remember how One More day was made to put peter back in his old position , with a bad reputation and social life? yeah, this is exactly just why ock is in peter body, and it's not because of slott, it's because they need spider-man back at his old position, and this will repeat in a couple of years until someone realizes that setting back so much character development is not particularly good. this is why i hate this idea. mark my words, this will happen.

3. the Joker- while the humor is generally good, some are seriously too perverted. at first glance it might not seem much but when we take into consideration that an old man inhabits a body of a physically fit man and tries to have sex his ex-GF, it would be called taking things too far :/

but While i'm at it, i might as well say something good since we are at it

1. Slott makes it damn clear that THIS is not spider-man, the hero we all know and love, this is dock ock, who is an ass. anyways, it makes sense, and it feels organic that otto is willing to kill, it shows that ock is still the villain, and peter is still the Hero in this title, however considering the solicits for superior 9, this point might as well be ignored.

Nothing personal against slott or anything but i just generally dislike the title, is still read it , but i don't like it, it's only my love for spider-man that makes me come back.

HOWEVER, yost has been kicking arse, his avenging is WAY better the the superior title( IRONY), in fact, i'd go far as too say that Avenging has played a much bigger role in ottos character development , he learns by observing other heroes like thor, or even the x-men( he did kick Logans bum though), and applies it to his personality, but it's not rushed, otto is still a dick.

thats all i have to say for now.

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#9 Posted by Sapperjak (66 posts) - - Show Bio

It is so hard to not give this book a chance but it is also hard to swallow some of the things that go on in it. It is an utter nightmare for a Peter Parker fan.

#10 Posted by GundamHeavyarms (701 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a good rant, you have a very good assessment of what is going on.

Because I am a trade waiter, I will have to try this series for myself in june. I have read reviews though, and the reaction has generally been positive. I normally keep myself abreast of titles I am interested in before I buy the trade.

One of the things I find ironic about the book is that Mayor Jameson is cheering Spock on, even though he has become the very menace that the old jameson has been railing against. Brutalizing people, an execution, drones patrolling the city, oh yeah, he's keeping new york safe, right underneath his thumb.

I don't know if there are any Rurouni Kenshin fans out there, but Ock as spider man reminds me a lot of Makoto Shishio, the antagonist from the Kyoto arc. Like Shisho, Ock will climb higher and higher and higher to prove himself superior to Peter Parker, the avengers, even the world. That gigantic ego of his isn't going anywhere, and it will be his downfall. Like when Shisho exploded (Literally, the guy burst into flames) because all he wanted to do was kill kenshin. When Peter comes back (and he will no matter what Slott says.) He will most likely have no job, no avengers membership, and he'll be the outcast loner loser again.

So like I said, I will read the first trade, just like I did with Miles Morales, and if I like it great, and if I don't that's fine too. It's no skin off my nose.

#11 Posted by PunyParker (8824 posts) - - Show Bio

Dude,i told you before,you write fantastic.Good point,too.

#12 Edited by Strider92 (16027 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll toss in my thoughts later as you know how I felt about this going in, but this was incredible!

Cheers :). I'd be interested to hear your opinion!

#13 Posted by camstevens80 (150 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with you that several people still read the book because they are curious about ghost Peter, but it can be inferred that he will be gone in the Superior No More storyline coming up. My question is will people continue to read if the one thing keeping them invested is gotten rid of or if they will continue reading something they don't enjoy out of commitment to the Spider-man character even though it has been bastardized.

#14 Posted by Strider92 (16027 posts) - - Show Bio

@camstevens80: True but what I was really getting at was that despite people buying Superior just for Peter its a general consensus that Avenging is much better despite the fact ghost Peter hasn't appeared in it yet meaning that with the right writer *cough*Yost*cough* this series could do really well.

@punyparker: Cheers :)

#15 Posted by greenlucario (207 posts) - - Show Bio

Great rant! Loved the points you made. I just wish I was able to just drop Superior til Pete comes back, because for me Scarlet Spider is now the go to Spidey title.

#16 Edited by camstevens80 (150 posts) - - Show Bio

@greenlucario why do you say you wish you were able to drop Superior... If people who don't like the new status quo continue to buy just hoping that Pete will one day come back, that day will just get farther and farther away. As long as sales stay up they can justify doing whatever they want but if those who don't like it stand up and choose not to buy and the numbers drop, they will understand that the new status quo isn't accepted. You make your voice heard with your money, not on message boards.

#17 Posted by JimTheSurfer (560 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice blog. Love the way you write. I only disagree with this:

"Doc Ock becoming Spider-man........less interested now but I guess i'd give it a shot. A much cooler villain could have fitted this purpose better. (Alistair Smythe or Eddie Brock anyone?)"

I thought Doc Ock was a perfect choice. He was there from the beggining, has some similiarities with Pete and they have quite a history together (though on opposite sides).

While Eddie Brock is a lunatic. He would probably do some stupid crap. And Smythe... He and Peter haven't fought too often.

#18 Edited by Strider92 (16027 posts) - - Show Bio

@jimthesurfer: True but look at it this way if Smythe had turned over a new leaf we know he's a genius at building robots (Spider-slayers), we know he can give people spider-powers including a spider-sense (as seen in Big Time) and it would have created an entirely new dynamic between Spider-man and J.Johan Jameson what with Smythe killing his wife in cold blood. All in all I would have been far more interested in Smythe than Ock.

#19 Posted by laflux (13684 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92:

"Strider Rants to be show cased on the Comicvine homepage". Come on, shout it out with me!!!!!!

TBH I agree. Yost writing has been really good. Slott was fast becoming one my favorite Spider-Man writers, entering JMS and Todd status before SS. I think SS was Slott's way of trying to impart something distinctive into Spider-Man- Todd has his art, Lizard, Venom, JMS has the sins past The Other. I will say SS has grown on me too, but I think its more about Slott's and Yost's writing than it being a good idea.

In a way it kinda reminds me of the death of Ult Spider-Man. It was a terrible Idea, but the fallout was written brilliantly, and I follow Ult Spider-Man more closely than I did previously. Spider-Men was fantastic (yes take it in, laflux gives Bendis praise). So overall, I'm mellow about the whole thing.

And in anycase, while Spider-Man KOing Wolverine makes little sense, it appeals to my inner fanboy so much that I can't help but......................smile :)

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#20 Posted by Strider92 (16027 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

"Strider Rants to be show cased on the Comicvine homepage". Come on, shout it out with me!!!!!!

Awww chucks!

@laflux said:

And in anycase, while Spider-Man KOing Wolverine makes little sense, it appeals to my inner fanboy so much that I can't help but......................smile :)

I'll be interested to see how the Scarlet Spider Vs Wolverine fight goes.

#21 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

Alright, time to get to business with this!

First off, SpOck has been doing a really poor job of up-holding the promise he had with Parker in his last moments. Sure, he's been trying to be a hero the best he can, but he seems to taking out his own frustrations on those who he deems beneath him. It's a little cynical but it works for Ock and plays to his nature, making for an interesting dynamic with those close to him.

But that brings me to another point. I know Slott is a huge supporter of MJ and Peter, he of all people wants to put them back together but I cannot stand how he's written MJ so far in the series. It's as if she's brainwashed or something. How many time has Octavius called her "woman" in issue 700 alone? I mean, c'mon! That writing alone has turned me off a little.

The best part of Superior in my opinion is Ock's attempts at trying to improve and capitalize on Parker's life as if it was his rebirth or new beginning. Instead of pretending to be Parker and imitating him the to letter, he cares little for such semantics and acts like his own man. It provides for the awkward humour Slott is best known for. I also like his interactions with previous allies (now villains).

As much as people find it to be a nuisance, I don't mind Peter's ghost being around but I feel as if he was introduced far too early on. Obviously, the reasoning for that was to shut the naysayers up but that just makes it seem that Slott can't handle the pressure. That's one area where I feel that Yost and Avenging are surpassing Superior in. They are taking advantage of Octavius' situation to it's utmost potential while Slott seems to keep foreshadowing the eventual return of Peter in his body and not actually dealing the cards that's he been dealt.

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#22 Edited by Strider92 (16027 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget: I definitely agree with how Slott is writing MJ. That has been done pretty badly however it could be argued that since she never married Spider-man none of the arcs or adventures that took place during their marriage (thats a LOT of stories) she was never involved in while it doesn't forgive the writing it does make sense as the only time she was with Pete was prior to their marriage thanks to BND. Thus she probably does not know Pete anywhere near as well as she did pre-OMD.

With regards to Pete's ghost I have a feeling Slott is trolling us we all know he plans to make Superior a long status quo thus I have this feeling that he's just trying to make it as painful as possible so we all go apesh*t when he does get rid of Pete for real (possibly in issue 10?). I have this feeling that we are metaphorical children and he is a metaphorical Willy Wonka offering us tons of candy when we go into the shop but when you actually go in its just a room full of cobwebs and a dead hobo!

#23 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92: I have to disagree with your point about them never being married altering MJ's knowledge of Peter. Ock himself mentioned in separate issues that no one knew "Parker... me better than she did". And yet, she's oblivious to his condescending tone, arrogance and misbehaviour? Nah breh, bad writing all the way.

Good point in regards to Peter's ghost, as it seems with the solicits, Ock somehow seems to rid himself of Peter's "soul" and fully takes control of the body.

Moderator
#24 Posted by greenlucario (207 posts) - - Show Bio

@camstevens80: Well for starters that was before the infamous issue 9. I meant that I want to see how the story unfolds, I stuck around through Civil War, OMD, and BND to support my favorite character even if the story lines were terrible (probably worse than pre issue 9 superior). I honestly don't think Marvel gives a crap either way if I stop buying it or don't, they'll keep doing what they want because they've been trashing Peter since 05/06 with a small break for Slott's run pre-Dying Wish. I am merely concurring with others who share a similar opinion.

@greenlucario . You make your voice heard with your money, not on message boards.

Wow, really?! I'd never have realized that if you hadn't pointed that out. I thought Marvel actually cared about my various rantings because they were posted in the ComicVine forums. So what you're saying is they don't check up on my opinion, wow I am stunned T_T

#25 Posted by KuyaKikoy (10 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92:

"Not to mention due to the movie reboot the series was already going to have problems as new readers who come from the films are going to have no idea whats going on when they see Friendly Neighborhood Spidey shooting people in the face or snapping their necks."

Yup. Superior Spidey did that to me, I was expecting Peter Parker as Spider-Man. :(
Kinda sad how Superior Spider-Man's the first Spidey comicbook that I read. But hey, it's still interesting (although there's still a pain in my chest because it's Doc Ock in the suit). I also read Avenging, it is better than Superior IMO. There's also Scarlet Spider which also I enjoy reading. :)

#26 Posted by PunyParker (8824 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll be interested to see how the Scarlet Spider Vs Wolverine fight goes.

BLLLLLLLLEW MY MIND!!

#27 Posted by PunyParker (8824 posts) - - Show Bio

@kuyakikoy: Take on older versions of Ultimate Spider-Man with Peter Parker...the new movies are mostly,based on these comicbooks....

#28 Posted by KuyaKikoy (10 posts) - - Show Bio

@punyparker:

Oh. I see. Imma go check when I got the time. Thank you very much. :)

#29 Posted by PunyParker (8824 posts) - - Show Bio
#30 Edited by KuyaKikoy (10 posts) - - Show Bio

@punyparker: Excuse me? Or were you referring to the Ultimate Spidey? I'm confused. XD

#31 Edited by PunyParker (8824 posts) - - Show Bio
#32 Posted by soduh2 (863 posts) - - Show Bio

"The endless cycle- Now for the big bonanza, Remember how One More day was made to put peter back in his old position , with a bad reputation and social life? yeah, this is exactly just why ock is in peter body, and it's not because of slott, it's because they need spider-man back at his old position, and this will repeat in a couple of years until someone realizes that setting back so much character development is not particularly good. this is why i hate this idea. mark my words, this will happen."

This is probably the worst thing about this series. When Peter returns, EVERYTHING will be reversed to the status quo. Parker will be down on his luck again and Spider-man will be distrusted by the public (and the super hero community).

#33 Posted by PunyParker (8824 posts) - - Show Bio

@soduh2 said:

"The endless cycle- Now for the big bonanza, Remember how One More day was made to put peter back in his old position , with a bad reputation and social life? yeah, this is exactly just why ock is in peter body, and it's not because of slott, it's because they need spider-man back at his old position, and this will repeat in a couple of years until someone realizes that setting back so much character development is not particularly good. this is why i hate this idea. mark my words, this will happen."

This is probably the worst thing about this series. When Peter returns, EVERYTHING will be reversed to the status quo. Parker will be down on his luck again and Spider-man will be distrusted by the public (and the super hero community).

Exacly what i've been saying....Its a perverted way to reboot the Spider-Man franchise!!

  1. Pete got a decent job,with good pay,for the first time in his life...

  2. Spidey stuff going well(no particular threats,bothering him,or his loved ones
  3. He has good relashionship with MJ,which could lead to something....

See?...."we cant have a Peter Parker who is ok! He must be relatable!! Let's f*ck up his world so everything can go back to normal!"...

I believe it's a publicity stunt,where Wacker lets Slott make his wish,and make Ock(Slott's fav character) to be the protagonist....

I posted it a while ago,but here:@strider92:

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