Skrull-Watch '08!

#3501 Posted by speedlgt (2109 posts) - - Show Bio
Calix said:
"Vance Astro said:
"speedlgt said:

thats nice to know....anyways

stark has screwed up the whole superhero community worse than any villan EVER HAS.....he did kill steve HE started the civil war HE caused steve to break a law and be arristed.....HIS whole better than thou midset put steve in front of a bullet bottom line he didnt pull the triger but he put HIM THERE. He basically too over the whole world! and it was the greatest EPIC FAIL in history of the marvel U. HE lest the skrulls invade...and I can go on all day he totally got what he had coming

Look we all know what he did and its time all the fans stop giving him a free pass hes a FAIL period and this last issue proved it. I am just glad the Joe Q and marvel have finally got off ironmans jock.

"
You talk about what Stark did as if he has free will or if he purposely screwed up the superhero community.He didn't kill Steve,If the cops arrest you and you get shot..are the cops to blame for putting you in cuffs? No..the person who shot you is to blame.He had to let the skrulls invade...that's the way it was written..again you act as if Stark himself had free will and did this on his own.
You are also acting as if something actually happened to Iron Man..Ok..he fought Thor & lost..he's done that twice before,He lost his company...So? He's still Iron Man.

"

I am with Vance on this one and these are my reasons why.

Speedlgt, Steve died solely because of HIS OWN actions. Yes I agree that he had found himself hard pressed when the GOVERNMENT came and pretty much demanded that he go bring in  his friends if they chose not to comply with the SHRA and HE was the one to give them a big F*** U putting him on a collision course with Tony and the eventual out come.

Tony then found himself championing the very bill HE had been fighting AGAINST. For BOTH of them were in fact right. The Act was wrong but it WOULD NOT be stopped. So Steve fought it and Tony tried to curtail it by preventing someone like Osborn or worse Gyrich to get free reign on bringing in the Super Heroes or a full on BAN on Super Heroes.
Fact of the matter is Tony and Steve could have been fighting side by side when the latter kicked the bucket. I mean the woman he was doing shot him for crying out loud!

Developing a case of selective memory loss are we? Tony didn't LET  the Skrulls invade They were ALREADY HERE by the time he became Director of SHIELD and 'took over'. They were already been PLAYING him and everyone else INCLUDING your almighty Steve like a cheap violin.

In fact I will even do you one better and can go as far as to say if you want to play the blame game in regards of the Invasion you need not look further than dearly departed Steve Rodgers.
The Skrulls had been looking for a way to not only infiltrate but do maximum amount of damage and they chose Spider-Woman, coincidentally who had been gung ho about Jessica joining the New Avengers.... ? Well I'll be, it was Steve. Again as they were uncovering Jessica's multiple allegiences, it was Steve that went to bat for the Skrull Queen. Did he do it knowingly of course NOT, but it happened none the less.

As for Tony screwing with Super Heroe community? Hardly he constantly found himself reacting to situations in which where being manipulated beyond his knowledge. Again this started way before Stamford, World War Hulk, HoM. This went back to after Annilation occured. More importantly not only was he up against an unknown factor, The Skrulls, but he was also up against his two strongest allies thru out this entire mess, those being PYM & REED.
Tony may have been the one with the vision but it had been the three of them sitting together that hashed out how to make it a reality. Pym who was a Skrull and Reed who had been instrumental, if not determental, in devising the invasion plot/plan FOR the Skrulls.

Stark never stood a chance in staving off this invasion because the deck was stacked!
This isn't about giving him a free pass. Yes the man can be an incredible a** at times. I am not disputing that. To however assign him the blame for something that wasn't actually his fault is ignorant at best especially considering all the known facts."
Sorry I cant let this Go!

so you made some "nice" points but heres something to chew on

First your comments about steve being to blame is just way out of line steve didnt take over the world, like some cheap Alexander the great wanna be.
Second I know who shot steve and Like I said and (most of the marvel feels the same way) I dont care cause STARK he put him there, HE PUT HIM THERE.
Third and most important MARVEL clearly in SI has put the blame on stark so if you dont like it go argue with Joe Q SO basically I am forming my opinion in line with marvel's offical backing.

Bottom line is stark throughout the whole thing as him ruler of the MARVEL U was a great FAIL he got his best friend killed a founding avenger KILLED split the avengers, almost lost the planet, allowed a villan to take his spot, and then in the end he lost it all his command, his job, his company, and whatever respect hs had.

Its a long list of sins and little to no salvation.




#3502 Posted by Vance Astro (91262 posts) - - Show Bio
speedlgt said:
Sorry I cant let this Go!

so you made some "nice" points but heres something to chew on

First your comments about steve being to blame is just way out of line steve didnt take over the world, like some cheap Alexander the great wanna be.
Second I know who shot steve and Like I said and (most of the marvel feels the same way) I dont care cause STARK he put him there, HE PUT HIM THERE.
Third and most important MARVEL clearly in SI has put the blame on stark so if you dont like it go argue with Joe Q SO basically I am forming my opinion in line with marvel's offical backing.

Bottom line is stark throughout the whole thing as him ruler of the MARVEL U was a great FAIL he got his best friend killed a founding avenger KILLED split the avengers, almost lost the planet, allowed a villan to take his spot, and then in the end he lost it all his command, his job, his company, and whatever respect hs had.

Its a long list of sins and little to no salvation.




"
Ok..Stark put him there but it's not like he did that on purpose.He could have been doing anything and got sniped.You can't blame the person that didn't shoot him for killing him.
I don't see how SI is Stark's fault when a big portion of the Invasion began during House of M.

Lastly..Cap isn't Tony's best friend.Rhodey is.He didn't get Cap killed either...Red Skull planned to kill him for years.His plan would have been executed whether Civil War was going on or not.Almost lost the planet? The skrulls had all the resources possible and got completely destroyed..this was an easier win then when Sentry killed Carnage.Iron Man didn't allow Norman to take his spot..you honestly think that Norman taking is spot was something he thought was a good idea.

You obviously have a personal bias against Stark.You act like you don't but you clearly do.Your the only one who is this involved with Tony's failures.He is a flawed character..that is how he was written.Tony has always had huge failures like this..but he bounces back.He was an alcoholic,he has failed to create tech that would take out global threats..time and time again,he was in love with his assistant.That is why Stark is a good character,because he has flaws..and because bad things happen to him,then he has to deal with them.He makes more decisions and he tries to do things on his own so nobody else gets hurt.I don't see why you have a problem with him.
Moderator
#3503 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio
speedlgt said:
"Sorry I cant let this Go!

so you made some "nice" points but heres something to chew on

First your comments about steve being to blame is just way out of line steve didnt take over the world, like some cheap Alexander the great wanna be.
Second I know who shot steve and Like I said and (most of the marvel feels the same way) I dont care cause STARK he put him there, HE PUT HIM THERE.
Third and most important MARVEL clearly in SI has put the blame on stark so if you dont like it go argue with Joe Q SO basically I am forming my opinion in line with marvel's offical backing.

Bottom line is stark throughout the whole thing as him ruler of the MARVEL U was a great FAIL he got his best friend killed a founding avenger KILLED split the avengers, almost lost the planet, allowed a villan to take his spot, and then in the end he lost it all his command, his job, his company, and whatever respect hs had.

Its a long list of sins and little to no salvation. "
Tony did not put Steve anywhere, Steve put himself there. At the beginning of the Civil War, Tony tried to talk to Captain America instead of fighting, but Steve struck the first blow. Steven then later turned himself in. He agreed to go in handcuffs cause he realized what he was doing was wrong, even if he didn't like the way the world was going. So it was no one else's fault that Steve was in handcuffs besides Steve.

The Invasion is not even close to Tony's fault. The writers at Marvel know this, but the characters in Marvel don't. Tony is now a political figure head and when stuff goes wrong people need someone to blame. Tony is the guy the world is throwing the blame on cause he couldn't see something coming that had already happened long before he had reached power. The Invasion had started before the New Avengers were first formed, but the world wants to blame Tony for not seeing it coming. The blame could easily be but on any other hero, but Tony is the face of the Inititaive.
#3504 Posted by danhimself (22578 posts) - - Show Bio

i still think that if fury would have stayed in charge of shield the invasion wouldn't have happenend

#3505 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio
danhimself said:
"i still think that if fury would have stayed in charge of shield the invasion wouldn't have happenend"
How so?
#3506 Posted by danhimself (22578 posts) - - Show Bio

no one can fool fury...he doesn't trust anyone that's why he figured out that the countess was replaced....he would have seen it coming a mile away

#3507 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio

I doubt it

#3508 Posted by danhimself (22578 posts) - - Show Bio

i don't

#3509 Posted by speedlgt (2109 posts) - - Show Bio
danhimself said:
"i still think that if fury would have stayed in charge of shield the invasion wouldn't have happenend"

I agree
#3510 Edited by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio

Even if that was true, it still doesn't make it Tony's fault. The Invasion started before Tony was even connect to SHIELD. It started before the New Avengers even formed so it was either while Maria Hill or Nick Fury were in charge(I can't remember when Nick left)

EDIT: Secret War was after the New Avengers started, so going by what you guys say, its Fury's fault the  Invasion happened cause he was still around.

#3511 Posted by speedlgt (2109 posts) - - Show Bio
Nobody said:
"Even if that was true, it still doesn't make it Tony's fault. The Invasion started before Tony was even connect to SHIELD. It started before the New Avengers even formed so it was either while Maria Hill or Nick Fury were in charge(I can't remember when Nick left)

EDIT: Secret War was after the New Avengers started, so going by what you guys say, its Fury's fault the  Invasion happened cause he was still around."

Let me put it another way....if the QB throws you a bad pass but it touches your hands and you drop the pass in the endzone you still DROPED THE BALL. Thats what stark did.
#3512 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio
speedlgt said:
"Nobody said:
"Even if that was true, it still doesn't make it Tony's fault. The Invasion started before Tony was even connect to SHIELD. It started before the New Avengers even formed so it was either while Maria Hill or Nick Fury were in charge(I can't remember when Nick left)

EDIT: Secret War was after the New Avengers started, so going by what you guys say, its Fury's fault the  Invasion happened cause he was still around."

Let me put it another way....if the QB throws you a bad pass but it touches your hands and you drop the pass in the endzone you still DROPED THE BALL. Thats what stark did."
You are making a reference to football while talking about comics? This whole invasion thing is in no way Tony's fault.
#3513 Posted by speedlgt (2109 posts) - - Show Bio
Nobody said:
"speedlgt said:
"Nobody said:
"Even if that was true, it still doesn't make it Tony's fault. The Invasion started before Tony was even connect to SHIELD. It started before the New Avengers even formed so it was either while Maria Hill or Nick Fury were in charge(I can't remember when Nick left)

EDIT: Secret War was after the New Avengers started, so going by what you guys say, its Fury's fault the  Invasion happened cause he was still around."

Let me put it another way....if the QB throws you a bad pass but it touches your hands and you drop the pass in the endzone you still DROPED THE BALL. Thats what stark did."
You are making a reference to football while talking about comics? This whole invasion thing is in no way Tony's fault."

its just a reference to explain the saying "YOU DROPED THE BALL" and so what? and bro its really simple he made himself defender the world king of superheros and he didnt do a good job....hell without THOR, WOLVERINE , and THUNDERBOLTS he would have lost! shield went down he went down ah screw it I am tired of explaining it.
#3514 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio
speedlgt said:
"Nobody said:
"speedlgt said:
"Nobody said:
"Even if that was true, it still doesn't make it Tony's fault. The Invasion started before Tony was even connect to SHIELD. It started before the New Avengers even formed so it was either while Maria Hill or Nick Fury were in charge(I can't remember when Nick left)

EDIT: Secret War was after the New Avengers started, so going by what you guys say, its Fury's fault the  Invasion happened cause he was still around."

Let me put it another way....if the QB throws you a bad pass but it touches your hands and you drop the pass in the endzone you still DROPED THE BALL. Thats what stark did."
You are making a reference to football while talking about comics? This whole invasion thing is in no way Tony's fault."

its just a reference to explain the saying "YOU DROPED THE BALL" and so what? and bro its really simple he made himself defender the world king of superheros and he didnt do a good job....hell without THOR, WOLVERINE , and THUNDERBOLTS he would have lost! shield went down he went down ah screw it I am tired of explaining it."
He didn't make himself king of the superheroes. He was asked to do it. He was what the world wanted and need and he did the best possible job he could do with what he had.  You are expecting one man with no superpowers to beable to expect everything to happen on the entire Earth. And then expecting him to see something coming that has already happened.
#3515 Posted by speedlgt (2109 posts) - - Show Bio

ok just one last thought............
This is from Bendis the man himself......................referring to the scene in SI 8 where Bucky is Looking at Stark "It took me everything from having him say, like, "Well, next time don't kill Captain America!" and then run away like a girl. [Tony] Walking away covering the face and running away going, "Uh-huh-huh-huh!"

Lets just consider what the writer thinks for a moment......

#3516 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio
speedlgt said:
"ok just one last thought............
This is from Bendis the man himself......................referring to the scene in SI 8 where Bucky is Looking at Stark "It took me everything from having him say, like, "Well, next time don't kill Captain America!" and then run away like a girl. [Tony] Walking away covering the face and running away going, "Uh-huh-huh-huh!"

Lets just consider what the writer thinks for a moment......
"
Obviously the writers have Bucky believing its Iron Man's fault like most the Marvel Universe.
#3517 Posted by Calix (487 posts) - - Show Bio
speedlgt said:
"Calix said:
"Vance Astro said:
"speedlgt said:

thats nice to know....anyways

stark has screwed up the whole superhero community worse than any villan EVER HAS.....he did kill steve HE started the civil war HE caused steve to break a law and be arristed.....HIS whole better than thou midset put steve in front of a bullet bottom line he didnt pull the triger but he put HIM THERE. He basically too over the whole world! and it was the greatest EPIC FAIL in history of the marvel U. HE lest the skrulls invade...and I can go on all day he totally got what he had coming

Look we all know what he did and its time all the fans stop giving him a free pass hes a FAIL period and this last issue proved it. I am just glad the Joe Q and marvel have finally got off ironmans jock.

"
You talk about what Stark did as if he has free will or if he purposely screwed up the superhero community.He didn't kill Steve,If the cops arrest you and you get shot..are the cops to blame for putting you in cuffs? No..the person who shot you is to blame.He had to let the skrulls invade...that's the way it was written..again you act as if Stark himself had free will and did this on his own.
You are also acting as if something actually happened to Iron Man..Ok..he fought Thor & lost..he's done that twice before,He lost his company...So? He's still Iron Man.

"

I am with Vance on this one and these are my reasons why.

Speedlgt, Steve died solely because of HIS OWN actions. Yes I agree that he had found himself hard pressed when the GOVERNMENT came and pretty much demanded that he go bring in  his friends if they chose not to comply with the SHRA and HE was the one to give them a big F*** U putting him on a collision course with Tony and the eventual out come.

Tony then found himself championing the very bill HE had been fighting AGAINST. For BOTH of them were in fact right. The Act was wrong but it WOULD NOT be stopped. So Steve fought it and Tony tried to curtail it by preventing someone like Osborn or worse Gyrich to get free reign on bringing in the Super Heroes or a full on BAN on Super Heroes.
Fact of the matter is Tony and Steve could have been fighting side by side when the latter kicked the bucket. I mean the woman he was doing shot him for crying out loud!

Developing a case of selective memory loss are we? Tony didn't LET  the Skrulls invade They were ALREADY HERE by the time he became Director of SHIELD and 'took over'. They were already been PLAYING him and everyone else INCLUDING your almighty Steve like a cheap violin.

In fact I will even do you one better and can go as far as to say if you want to play the blame game in regards of the Invasion you need not look further than dearly departed Steve Rodgers.
The Skrulls had been looking for a way to not only infiltrate but do maximum amount of damage and they chose Spider-Woman, coincidentally who had been gung ho about Jessica joining the New Avengers.... ? Well I'll be, it was Steve. Again as they were uncovering Jessica's multiple allegiences, it was Steve that went to bat for the Skrull Queen. Did he do it knowingly of course NOT, but it happened none the less.

As for Tony screwing with Super Heroe community? Hardly he constantly found himself reacting to situations in which where being manipulated beyond his knowledge. Again this started way before Stamford, World War Hulk, HoM. This went back to after Annilation occured. More importantly not only was he up against an unknown factor, The Skrulls, but he was also up against his two strongest allies thru out this entire mess, those being PYM & REED.
Tony may have been the one with the vision but it had been the three of them sitting together that hashed out how to make it a reality. Pym who was a Skrull and Reed who had been instrumental, if not determental, in devising the invasion plot/plan FOR the Skrulls.

Stark never stood a chance in staving off this invasion because the deck was stacked!
This isn't about giving him a free pass. Yes the man can be an incredible a** at times. I am not disputing that. To however assign him the blame for something that wasn't actually his fault is ignorant at best especially considering all the known facts."
Sorry I cant let this Go!

so you made some "nice" points but heres something to chew on

First your comments about steve being to blame is just way out of line steve didnt take over the world, like some cheap Alexander the great wanna be.
Second I know who shot steve and Like I said and (most of the marvel feels the same way) I dont care cause STARK he put him there, HE PUT HIM THERE.
Third and most important MARVEL clearly in SI has put the blame on stark so if you dont like it go argue with Joe Q SO basically I am forming my opinion in line with marvel's offical backing.

Bottom line is stark throughout the whole thing as him ruler of the MARVEL U was a great FAIL he got his best friend killed a founding avenger KILLED split the avengers, almost lost the planet, allowed a villan to take his spot, and then in the end he lost it all his command, his job, his company, and whatever respect hs had.

Its a long list of sins and little to no salvation.




"


Okay nice reply unfortunate doesn't quite cut it and here is why....
The invasion had nothing to do with Stark 'taking over the world'. As for your reference to Alexander the Great. the man build his empire by going to war. Tony already had his empire furthermore Stark tech was being used globally way before he even became head of SHIELD. Again he made a gross part of his money from military contracts so his tech was already there. What he did do was to draw it all to himself and this was in no way a egomania but he didn't want his people dying if there was no need for it. This was a point of contention within SHIELD itself but I digress.
STEVE IS TOO BLAME as well for it was HIM who asked Jessica-Skrull into the fold to begin with back when TONY DID NOT want to reform the Avengers. This was after the fact that the Skrulls had already infiltrated. It WAS Steve that allowed Jessica to remain running around unchecked even after it became clear that she was a double if not a triple agent even when Tony DID try to restrain her movements back during CW Need I point out that by then the Skrull infiltration had been not only greenlighted but was a complete succes.
If you know who pumped Steve with lead and the reasons why, I am still astounded how you could leap to the bizzare conclusion that it was Tony's fault that Steve got shot. Thou I supose you are under the impression that Steve's squeeze would have not been able to get at him where it not for Tony. Dude.... how do you think Sharon got to be with child?
Marvel didn't put thte blame solely on Stark. It was characters WITHIN the Marvel U placed the blame on Stark. Not the same thing for it is these same characters that are now praising Norman Osborn, of all people, for his role in staving of the invasion by getting in a lucky shot at the Queen. Need I remind you that It was within this same universe that characters placed all their faith in Tony in the aftermath of the Civil War. These characters are fickle at best.

TONY DID NOT fail because he never had a chance in hell of succeeding. The game was rigged! If the QB in a huddle set up a play and then plays a diffent one how can the Receiver be to blame for not being where the ball was thrown. Sure the crowd would blame the Receiver for not being there but the team would know that it was in fact the QB that f** up. To use sports analogy.

Spilt the Avengers? If you mean the first time around after Wanda's ginormous melt down. How could he not? The mansion was destroyed by one of their own whom incidentally killed at least two of her teammates. This as a consequence of her entire team lying/omitting to her about something that they had to have known was very important to her given the fact of what it was that had occurred. Besides while Tony had pulled the funding, if the others were so inclined they could have continued without Tony but they didn't. It was a collective decesion deal with it.
If you are refering to the second time around then again you are dead wrong. Every Avenger made their own choice involving the SHRA, I am not going to once again state why Tony chose what he chose.
 
Lost the planet? Are you serious the planet was already lost BEFORE he even rejoined/reformed the Avengers WITH the SKRULL-QUEEN. The only one who knew of the infiltration was Fury and he specifically choose to go underground as he began uncovering something rotten leading up and durring Secret War. You want to place blame? Start with Fury and go from there.

Allowed a villian to take his spot? It's at this point that your Stark-bashing becomes so blatant, never mind missplaced, its not even funny. What's next Steve allowed Sharon to shoot him? It was the government that placed SHIELD and the Innitiative under the Thunderbolts with Norman as it's head and to remove the Stark Tech from the military. At no point was it stated that Tony lost his company, in fact Tony had long since wanted to cut all ties with it's weapons contracts to SHIELD and all other military branches but they kept fighting him on it.
And another thing even IF he indeed lost his company, and his job by extention, this is Tony Stark where talking about here. Bouncing back from Nothing to be bigger and better the next time around IS  what Tony does best!
#3518 Posted by Mr. Wilson (6322 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow.  Nice post.  Secret Invasion: Dark Reign comes out tomorrow.

#3519 Posted by speedlgt (2109 posts) - - Show Bio

@ calix

Your previous response was very nice good job....
I know basically everything you stated however once again a few things to chew on

1st Yes steve allowed the queen to stay around even though she seemed to be up to something BUT come on bro dont you think he the CAPTAIN OF AMERICA had a plan for her? of course he did he was trying to get to the bottom of what she was all about and keeping her close was the best way to do it. He was not blind to her actions Tony on the other had was....completely blindsided

Second No man takes on that much power like tony did without being on a hughe ego trip. He knew that hes not a leader...hes not steve hes not Fury but he thougt he could he tried and maybe he didnt have a chance but ya know what he didnt turn a negative into a positive which is what HEROS do

Third once again when he did his stupid Reg Act he split the avengers and the whole superhero community  and he knew it would and didnt care....he had to know wolverine would sign that thing!

Forth it happened all on his watch no matter what was or was not inplace before he took the Job doesnt matter...... he took the job and it all went down on his watch and no amount of sympathy of "get out of jail free" cards changes that.

Fith I have every right to bash any hero I want.   Ttheres tons of Batman and superman hate  on the vine and people bash them and thats ok? not to mention the DC hate but thats ok? but oh dont talk bad about Ironman cause the Might VANCE ASTRO will defend him along with other marvel zombies. I can say what I what. Not that I think I am really bashing stark....from the story stand point starting from new avengers till now I just want him to pay for his sins and go down in flames. If I hated him so much I wouldnt talk about him.

#3520 Posted by Vance Astro (91262 posts) - - Show Bio
speedlgt said:
 Might VANCE ASTRO will defend him along with other marvel zombies. I can say what I what. Not that I think I am really bashing stark....from the story stand point starting from new avengers till now I just want him to pay for his sins and go down in flames. If I hated him so much I wouldnt talk about him."
You seem to only say these things because you know I will respond.The stuff you say about Stark is based on your personal bias instead of what is factual and logical.If you can b#tch about him...than I don't see why I can't defend him.Stark has had some pretty bad things happen to him as of late and for most of his career he has been the Avenger with the most problems.Killing,deforming,or crippling Stark is the only other thing they can do to him and they aren't going to do any of that because they would lose money by ruining a perfectly good character.
People hate on Iron Man all the time.All the Superman and Batman hate doesn't matter because they have alot more fans than Iron Man...and alot more fans than haters.
Moderator
#3521 Posted by speedlgt (2109 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"speedlgt said:
 Might VANCE ASTRO will defend him along with other marvel zombies. I can say what I what. Not that I think I am really bashing stark....from the story stand point starting from new avengers till now I just want him to pay for his sins and go down in flames. If I hated him so much I wouldnt talk about him."
You seem to only say these things because you know I will respond.The stuff you say about Stark is based on your personal bias instead of what is factual and logical.If you can b#tch about him...than I don't see why I can't defend him.Stark has had some pretty bad things happen to him as of late and for most of his career he has been the Avenger with the most problems.Killing,deforming,or crippling Stark is the only other thing they can do to him and they aren't going to do any of that because they would lose money by ruining a perfectly good character.
People hate on Iron Man all the time.All the Superman and Batman hate doesn't matter because they have alot more fans than Iron Man...and alot more fans than haters.
"

Well for the most part I was having a nice time not talking to you at all....I enjoyed talking to Calix. I knew you would respond and really didnt want you envloved but I only said that cause your the main stark defender here....I didnt mean for it drag you in and start us going at it again.  And remember My vengence toward stark comes for factual things the guy did and caused in the avengers from New till now. Its like in the movie training day I loved Denzel in the movie but I really wanted to see him die. ITs that kinda feeling I have for stark. so again please dont misunderstand
#3522 Posted by Vance Astro (91262 posts) - - Show Bio
speedlgt said:
"Vance Astro said:
"speedlgt said:
 Might VANCE ASTRO will defend him along with other marvel zombies. I can say what I what. Not that I think I am really bashing stark....from the story stand point starting from new avengers till now I just want him to pay for his sins and go down in flames. If I hated him so much I wouldnt talk about him."
You seem to only say these things because you know I will respond.The stuff you say about Stark is based on your personal bias instead of what is factual and logical.If you can b#tch about him...than I don't see why I can't defend him.Stark has had some pretty bad things happen to him as of late and for most of his career he has been the Avenger with the most problems.Killing,deforming,or crippling Stark is the only other thing they can do to him and they aren't going to do any of that because they would lose money by ruining a perfectly good character.
People hate on Iron Man all the time.All the Superman and Batman hate doesn't matter because they have alot more fans than Iron Man...and alot more fans than haters.
"

Well for the most part I was having a nice time not talking to you at all....I enjoyed talking to Calix. I knew you would respond and really didnt want you envloved but I only said that cause your the main stark defender here....I didnt mean for it drag you in and start us going at it again.  And remember My vengence toward stark comes for factual things the guy did and caused in the avengers from New till now. Its like in the movie training day I loved Denzel in the movie but I really wanted to see him die. ITs that kinda feeling I have for stark. so again please dont misunderstand"
If you didn't say my name and CAPS LOCK it..I would have never said anything to you.Calix was doing fine.I stopped responding to you on the last page.I didn't misunderstand either.You consistently b#tch about Stark and want things to happen to him.We all understand by now what you want to happen...but we know nothing is going to happen.There isn't much more Stark can go through without being killed off.Anyway..next time you want me out of a conversation don't CAPS LOCK my name because I didn't even bother reading what you were saying to Calix...I saw my name so I more so defended myself than Iron Man.
Moderator
#3523 Posted by speedlgt (2109 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"speedlgt said:
"Vance Astro said:
"speedlgt said:
 Might VANCE ASTRO will defend him along with other marvel zombies. I can say what I what. Not that I think I am really bashing stark....from the story stand point starting from new avengers till now I just want him to pay for his sins and go down in flames. If I hated him so much I wouldnt talk about him."
You seem to only say these things because you know I will respond.The stuff you say about Stark is based on your personal bias instead of what is factual and logical.If you can b#tch about him...than I don't see why I can't defend him.Stark has had some pretty bad things happen to him as of late and for most of his career he has been the Avenger with the most problems.Killing,deforming,or crippling Stark is the only other thing they can do to him and they aren't going to do any of that because they would lose money by ruining a perfectly good character.
People hate on Iron Man all the time.All the Superman and Batman hate doesn't matter because they have alot more fans than Iron Man...and alot more fans than haters.
"

Well for the most part I was having a nice time not talking to you at all....I enjoyed talking to Calix. I knew you would respond and really didnt want you envloved but I only said that cause your the main stark defender here....I didnt mean for it drag you in and start us going at it again.  And remember My vengence toward stark comes for factual things the guy did and caused in the avengers from New till now. Its like in the movie training day I loved Denzel in the movie but I really wanted to see him die. ITs that kinda feeling I have for stark. so again please dont misunderstand"
If you didn't say my name and CAPS LOCK it..I would have never said anything to you.Calix was doing fine.I stopped responding to you on the last page.I didn't misunderstand either.You consistently b#tch about Stark and want things to happen to him.We all understand by now what you want to happen...but we know nothing is going to happen.There isn't much more Stark can go through without being killed off.Anyway..next time you want me out of a conversation don't CAPS LOCK my name because I didn't even bother reading what you were saying to Calix...I saw my name so I more so defended myself than Iron Man."

Point taken My Bad.....
I stay away you stay way....................Great!
#3524 Posted by Calix (487 posts) - - Show Bio
speedlgt said:
"@ calix

Your previous response was very nice good job....
I know basically everything you stated however once again a few things to chew on

1st Yes steve allowed the queen to stay around even though she seemed to be up to something BUT come on bro dont you think he the CAPTAIN OF AMERICA had a plan for her? of course he did he was trying to get to the bottom of what she was all about and keeping her close was the best way to do it. He was not blind to her actions Tony on the other had was....completely blindsided.

1ST I don't think there was anyone, Yes and this includes CAPTAIN AMERICA, except maybe Fury that knew that the Skrull Queen was amongst them. EVERYONE was blindsided because that is what they had counted on again this was REED RICHARDS baby their is no way Steve was going to outsmart Reed but this is not the point.


speedlgt said:
Second No man takes on that much power like tony did without being on a hughe ego trip. He knew that hes not a leader...hes not steve hes not Fury but he thougt he could he tried and maybe he didnt have a chance but ya know what he didnt turn a negative into a positive which is what HEROS do.

2ND Tony didn't take on that much power as it was given to him, this is merely semantics but it again reflects to something else going on in your assumption(s) of Tony. Why couldn't Tony lead was he not a founding member of the Avengers. Steve just came aboard after the Avengers were already formed and what he brought to the table was nobility and honor. excellent qualities to have in a leader but at the end Steve was no longer able to be a leader, and this pains me to admit, he wasn't able to see/realize things as they were/had become. I AM NOT saying that he was wrong but he did fall short and that is where Tony proved to be ahead. He not only knew politics but he understood how it was played and thus was better at it. My point is that Stark had proven himself as a leader several times over while holding the many titles that he has including C.E.O. Secretary of Defense, Leader of the Avengers.
He didn't need to be Steve nor could he ever be Fury because while he and Fury are very similar the latter has one clear advantage over former he has way more experience at this game than Stark would and Need I remind you that Fury isn't without fault thru out his tenure as Director of SHIELD.
As for the Negative/positive thing: anti-hero sentiment was at an all time high after the thing with Samford, the crowd attacked Johnny Storm at a nightclub if memory serves me right. The SHRA bill rocketed thru the senate and was soon passed. Tony turned things around turning the negative sentiment into a positive one at the outcome of the Civil War. Super-heroes that had registered where seen as being responsible law enforcemers instead of renegade vigilanties. This effectively killed or at least severly reduced the anti-hero sentiment that preceeded Tony taking his stand. FOR THE RECORD many things that Stark did during CW and after f.e. Prison 42 and don't even get me started on the Thor-Clone, really rubbed me the wrong way.

speedlgt said:
Third once again when he did his stupid Reg Act he split the avengers and the whole superhero community  and he knew it would and didnt care....he had to know wolverine would sign that thing!

The SHRA wasn't Tony's bill. IN FACT Stark had been FIGHTING this very bill up until the Samford incident where the bill was renamed the Sharp Bill with the mother of that kid who died as the face of it. Again once Captain America turned down the 'offer' (and I use that term lightly) Tony stepped up to prevent the likes of 'Thunderbolt' Ross or Gyrich being handed such a job and if you think what Tony did was bad I suggest you read up on Henry Gyrich to find out just what a dispicable human being that one is. He was aware that the community would spilt and he did care, he just also knew his possible outcome would be less fatal than someone elses. Tony didn't decided this on a whim. he did calculations and projections and had this verified by Reed, not sure to what extent Pym(-Skrull) was in on it.

speedlgt said:
Forth it happened all on his watch no matter what was or was not inplace before he took the Job doesnt matter...... he took the job and it all went down on his watch and no amount of sympathy of "get out of jail free" cards changes that.

So basically are you telling me that I am to blame the nightmanager at Chrenobyl for the reactor exploding during his shift because the one who went before him didn't have him in the know about the safety's and what not?
Assigning blame is only applicable when all the facts have been presented. going off half cocked only makes one sound ignorant at best.

speedlgt said:
Fith I have every right to bash any hero I want.   Ttheres tons of Batman and superman hate  on the vine and people bash them and thats ok? not to mention the DC hate but thats ok? but oh dont talk bad about Ironman cause the Might VANCE ASTRO will defend him along with other marvel zombies. I can say what I what. Not that I think I am really bashing stark....from the story stand point starting from new avengers till now I just want him to pay for his sins and go down in flames. If I hated him so much I wouldnt talk about him."

I wasn't implying that you (or anyonelse for that matter) aren't allowed to bash any hero of your chosing. By all means fell free to do so, I however do kindly request that its done so intelligently.
I honestly wasn't aware that this bashing of Batman and/or Superman or DC in general was occuring as I have yet to come across such posts. I'll be honest I've never cared much for DC but that is mostly due to very limited exposure to it and than it was in the form of the Big 3 and to some extent the JLA and Teen Titans now apparently called Titans.
I've tried to engage in DC but the continuity throws me for a loop. same goes for Wild Storm but I digress. I am only replying because of the (to me) faulty sounding statements in which I try and share my views on said subject. In this particular case it was Ironman and it just so happened that I've been following Stark somewhat closely as of late due to my borderline obsession with New Avengers.
I get that you want Stark to pay for his transgressions from out of the New Avengers angle. I really do and in such a case you should bring forth these commited sins not trying to pin Steve's murder or the Invasion on Stark for they wont stick. 
#3525 Posted by speedlgt (2109 posts) - - Show Bio

@ Calix

Its a touchy subject of balming stark for Caps death clearly there those like me for feel he did it and those like you who say he didnt, I see what your saying and understand your points However I dont agree with some and we can leave it at that.  It sounds like you kinda think Cap is blame for the civil war? is that what your saying? (no disrespect ment)  I cant and wont believe that.
I think its a bit unfair to imply that me "bashing" of stark (again I am not bashing) is not without intelligence clearly by now I have stated the reasons why (again story wise) he need some punishment.

#3526 Posted by Calix (487 posts) - - Show Bio
speedlgt said:
"@ Calix

Its a touchy subject of balming stark for Caps death clearly there those like me for feel he did it and those like you who say he didnt, I see what your saying and understand your points However I dont agree with some and we can leave it at that.  It sounds like you kinda think Cap is blame for the civil war? is that what your saying? (no disrespect ment)  I cant and wont believe that.
I think its a bit unfair to imply that me "bashing" of stark (again I am not bashing) is not without intelligence clearly by now I have stated the reasons why (again story wise) he need some punishment."

I am not blaming Steve for Civil War far from it. I respect the stand he took because I understand his reasoning behind it just as I understand Tony's. I am somewhat surprised at how you concluded this out of my prior statements but that is beside the point. Steve's death was if anyone The Red Skull and Co. FAULT! He was the one who set it in play and had it executed. I just fail to see how Tony get's nailed for something the Red Skull did.
I am not implying that you are unintelligent, your reasoning however seems distorted. Like I mentioned above. The Red Skull planed and executed the assassination of Steve yet Tony is blamed for it. First you blamed Stark because the infiltration took place due to him having taken over the world then after realizing that he couldn't have prevented it. you switch gears and stated it was because it happened on his watch. Then youy state STark isn't a leader when there is a stagering amount to contradict that very statement. All to me are faulty reasoning and I know you are better than that.
Does Stark need to be punished? I would agree BUT NOT  for the reasons you stated. for the Negative Zone and the processing of it's 'criminals'?  yes! For shooting Banner into deepspace? yes! The Thor-clone? yes! Injecting She-Hulk with nanniets to surpress her powers against her will or knowledge? yes! Doing his number on Peter? Implementing the newest roster of Thunderbolts? yes! For Killing Steve? NO! the infiltration? NO! the invasion(which they won)? NO!  
#3527 Posted by G-Man (35002 posts) - - Show Bio

I guess it's time to un-pin this thread.  It almost lasted a year.  Time for Dark Reign I suppose...

Skrull Watch - R.I.P.
Staff Online
#3528 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio

Rest in peace, Old Friend.

Tear.

#3529 Posted by thunderbolt (2357 posts) - - Show Bio

Goodbye thread and hello Nobodies Dark Reign thread....

A single tear falls to the ground in memory of this thread

#3530 Posted by Kieran Marvel (154 posts) - - Show Bio

This thread should live on, i believe they were Skrulls who wern't revealed in Secret Invasion, maybe? I'm always going to be suspicious after this year i guess.


If it does die out though, goodbye Skrull Watch '08, best thread ever.

#3531 Posted by danhimself (22578 posts) - - Show Bio

i still think we should have just renamed this thread

#3532 Posted by Vance Astro (91262 posts) - - Show Bio

I miss this thread already =[

Moderator
#3533 Posted by xcodebro!x (68 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay, this may have been covered already, but I am new to ComicVine and I'd rather not go through all these posts.

My question is.... How did Captain America get on the Skrull ship? Is it really Cap, or is it Bucky? and was Cap a Skrull when Crossbones "killed" him? I've been racking my brain for days thinking about the possibilities. so Somebody please help me out?

#3534 Posted by Marvel Knight (1270 posts) - - Show Bio
xcodebro!x said:
"Okay, this may have been covered already, but I am new to ComicVine and I'd rather not go through all these posts.

My question is.... How did Captain America get on the Skrull ship? Is it really Cap, or is it Bucky? and was Cap a Skrull when Crossbones "killed" him? I've been racking my brain for days thinking about the possibilities. so Somebody please help me out?"
The Captain America on the Skrull ship was a Skrull who thought he was the real Captain America. Captain America who died was the real Captain America.
#3535 Posted by xcodebro!x (68 posts) - - Show Bio

Well when did the Skrull Cap die? At the end of SI Cap walks away from Iron Man looking all pissed off?

#3536 Posted by Nighthunter (28582 posts) - - Show Bio

Could it be that both Captain America and Captain Marvel are still alive? It was mentioned at the end that they needed the originals alive

#3537 Posted by John Valentine (16310 posts) - - Show Bio
xcodebro!x said:
"Well when did the Skrull Cap die? At the end of SI Cap walks away from Iron Man looking all pissed off?"

In the Savage Land.

Nighthunter said:
"Could it be that both Captain America and Captain Marvel are still alive? It was mentioned at the end that they needed the originals alive"

Steve Rogers is dead. end of.
#3538 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

I FOUND ONE!!!





M
#3539 Posted by Sovereign Vance (735 posts) - - Show Bio

<-----------Mad at above post.

#3540 Posted by Mr. Wilson (6322 posts) - - Show Bio

Agreed.

#3541 Posted by Legacy_ (10610 posts) - - Show Bio

There are still skrulls in the Marvel Universe.....

#3542 Posted by Riot 9 (133 posts) - - Show Bio

We know.

#3543 Posted by Nahero (9915 posts) - - Show Bio

its not 08 anymore so whos bringing this up?

#3544 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio
@Closure said:
" There are still skrulls in the Marvel Universe..... "
GASP!
#3545 Posted by Riot 9 (133 posts) - - Show Bio
@Nahero said:
" its not 08 anymore so whos bringing this up? "
It doesn't matter if it's '08 this is the Secret Invasion thread.
#3546 Posted by Legacy_ (10610 posts) - - Show Bio
@Nobody said:
" @Closure said:
" There are still skrulls in the Marvel Universe..... "
GASP! "
Dramatic Music begins to play...
#3547 Posted by Rothschild (1311 posts) - - Show Bio

I HATE SKRULLS!!!! If theres a race that i'm racist against its skruls... WIPE THEM OUT!!!

#3548 Posted by vegeta (4902 posts) - - Show Bio
#3549 Posted by SUNMAN (7239 posts) - - Show Bio
@Rothschild said:
" I HATE SKRULLS!!!! If theres a race that i'm racist against its skruls... WIPE THEM OUT!!! "
dang your racist
#3550 Posted by Rothschild (1311 posts) - - Show Bio
@SUNMAN said:
"@Rothschild said:
" I HATE SKRULLS!!!! If theres a race that i'm racist against its skruls... WIPE THEM OUT!!! "
dang your racist
"

I know... I know.. I'm sorry its my fathers fault and his father before him...

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