"Vance Astro said:Sorry I cant let this Go!"speedlgt said:You talk about what Stark did as if he has free will or if he purposely screwed up the superhero community.He didn't kill Steve,If the cops arrest you and you get shot..are the cops to blame for putting you in cuffs? No..the person who shot you is to blame.He had to let the skrulls invade...that's the way it was written..again you act as if Stark himself had free will and did this on his own.
thats nice to know....anyways"
stark has screwed up the whole superhero community worse than any villan EVER HAS.....he did kill steve HE started the civil war HE caused steve to break a law and be arristed.....HIS whole better than thou midset put steve in front of a bullet bottom line he didnt pull the triger but he put HIM THERE. He basically too over the whole world! and it was the greatest EPIC FAIL in history of the marvel U. HE lest the skrulls invade...and I can go on all day he totally got what he had coming
Look we all know what he did and its time all the fans stop giving him a free pass hes a FAIL period and this last issue proved it. I am just glad the Joe Q and marvel have finally got off ironmans jock.You are also acting as if something actually happened to Iron Man..Ok..he fought Thor & lost..he's done that twice before,He lost his company...So? He's still Iron Man.
I am with Vance on this one and these are my reasons why.
Speedlgt, Steve died solely because of HIS OWN actions. Yes I agree that he had found himself hard pressed when the GOVERNMENT came and pretty much demanded that he go bring in his friends if they chose not to comply with the SHRA and HE was the one to give them a big F*** U putting him on a collision course with Tony and the eventual out come.
Tony then found himself championing the very bill HE had been fighting AGAINST. For BOTH of them were in fact right. The Act was wrong but it WOULD NOT be stopped. So Steve fought it and Tony tried to curtail it by preventing someone like Osborn or worse Gyrich to get free reign on bringing in the Super Heroes or a full on BAN on Super Heroes.
Fact of the matter is Tony and Steve could have been fighting side by side when the latter kicked the bucket. I mean the woman he was doing shot him for crying out loud!
Developing a case of selective memory loss are we? Tony didn't LET the Skrulls invade They were ALREADY HERE by the time he became Director of SHIELD and 'took over'. They were already been PLAYING him and everyone else INCLUDING your almighty Steve like a cheap violin.
In fact I will even do you one better and can go as far as to say if you want to play the blame game in regards of the Invasion you need not look further than dearly departed Steve Rodgers.
The Skrulls had been looking for a way to not only infiltrate but do maximum amount of damage and they chose Spider-Woman, coincidentally who had been gung ho about Jessica joining the New Avengers.... ? Well I'll be, it was Steve. Again as they were uncovering Jessica's multiple allegiences, it was Steve that went to bat for the Skrull Queen. Did he do it knowingly of course NOT, but it happened none the less.
As for Tony screwing with Super Heroe community? Hardly he constantly found himself reacting to situations in which where being manipulated beyond his knowledge. Again this started way before Stamford, World War Hulk, HoM. This went back to after Annilation occured. More importantly not only was he up against an unknown factor, The Skrulls, but he was also up against his two strongest allies thru out this entire mess, those being PYM & REED.
Tony may have been the one with the vision but it had been the three of them sitting together that hashed out how to make it a reality. Pym who was a Skrull and Reed who had been instrumental, if not determental, in devising the invasion plot/plan FOR the Skrulls.
Stark never stood a chance in staving off this invasion because the deck was stacked!
This isn't about giving him a free pass. Yes the man can be an incredible a** at times. I am not disputing that. To however assign him the blame for something that wasn't actually his fault is ignorant at best especially considering all the known facts."
so you made some "nice" points but heres something to chew on
First your comments about steve being to blame is just way out of line steve didnt take over the world, like some cheap Alexander the great wanna be.
Second I know who shot steve and Like I said and (most of the marvel feels the same way) I dont care cause STARK he put him there, HE PUT HIM THERE.
Third and most important MARVEL clearly in SI has put the blame on stark so if you dont like it go argue with Joe Q SO basically I am forming my opinion in line with marvel's offical backing.
Bottom line is stark throughout the whole thing as him ruler of the MARVEL U was a great FAIL he got his best friend killed a founding avenger KILLED split the avengers, almost lost the planet, allowed a villan to take his spot, and then in the end he lost it all his command, his job, his company, and whatever respect hs had.
Its a long list of sins and little to no salvation.