The Sentry loss of memory

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#1 Posted by estrato (13 posts) - - Show Bio

Hello people, today I want to talk about The Sentry erasing his memory to vanish The Void. 
I have been in a discussion with my girl about WHO erase Sentry´s memories....I´m hoping you can help me unravel the truth 
 
¿Does the Sentry erase his memory by his own power or someone aid him in the task?
If you can give the reference of your statements i would appreciate it

#2 Edited by JediXMan (30608 posts) - - Show Bio

In Fallen Son: Sentry, from the way I saw it, it was the combined efforts of Dr. Strange, Reed, and Sentry himself. I don't have the scan handy.

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#3 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@JediXMan said:
" In Fallen Son: Sentry, from the way I saw it, it was the combined efforts of Dr. Strange, Reed, and Sentry himself. I don't have the scan handy. "
Yeah, that's it. 
 
The Sentry's incredible telepathic ability, combined with Strange's immense mystical power and Reed's science made it possible. 
 
Also, because this is a Sentry forum; Siege should be non-canon.
#4 Posted by JediXMan (30608 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt: 
 
It's a little detail that everyone "forgets" when debating with Sentry - that he had REED RICHARDS and CLASSIC (note: CLASSIC) STRANGE to help him. It wasn't a real telepathic feat.
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#5 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@JediXMan: True. The Void was the telepathic powerhouse, not the Sentry. 
 
BECAUSE THEY'RE TWO DIFFERENT ENTITIES BENDIS YOU ****ING TWIT!
 
....Sorry about that.
#6 Posted by JediXMan (30608 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt: 
 
Personally, I never liked Sentry. But the Dark Avengers was making me like him. Then came the last few issues where they start getting deeper into Sentry and the Void and it just went down hill from there/
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#7 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@JediXMan: The original Sentry series is one of my favourite books ever, it was a beautifully told tale of a mentally ill person overcoming their demons to become the greatest hero of all time, and then giving away that legacy to protect humanity. 
 
Then Bendis came along and ****ed the whole thing by making Bob a villain and an easily manipulated puppet. The real Sentry would have seen through Osborn's charade before anyone else and taken him and his Dark Avengers down in a fraction of a second.
#8 Posted by JediXMan (30608 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt: 
 
Which Sentry series is that? I might look into it.
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#9 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@JediXMan: The 2000 series by Paul Jenkins and Jae Lee. It's phenomenal. Second best Marvel book ever behind DD: Born Again, as far as I'm concerned. After reading that, you'll realise how annoying Dark Reign was and how good Fallen Sun was. Even the Rogue part was understandable.
#10 Posted by JediXMan (30608 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt: 
 
I hated the List. Dark Reign was tolerable. Siege was a piece of crap but a notch better than the List.
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#11 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@JediXMan: I actually liked Dark Reign, believe it or not, before the Siege/List stuff started. Except for Dark Avengers where one of my favourites (Sentry) was being written out of character, and the rest of the cast was being wasted, imo. Loved the art though. 
 
I hate Siege more than the list, purely for issues 3 and in particular; 4. I reviewed it on this site. I was not kind lol
#12 Posted by JediXMan (30608 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt: 
 
Dark Reign had a lot of wasted potential all around. But I liked it better than the "Heroic Age." The Thunderbolts were cool after Civil War and during Dark Reign. They suck now. 
 
I enjoyed Dark Avengers. For the most part, it was well written. I would have liked if they went into Osborn's psyche more than they did Sentry. It's like they wanted to open up that plot but did almost nothing with it. And the art was amazing - that was one of the reasons I picked up Secret Avengers (the best / only good Avengers title out now. Avengers is horrible and New Avengers is barely tolerable)
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#13 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@JediXMan: Mate, don't get me started on the Heroic Age. I dropped Marvel completely because of that. I was so mad after Siege, but I thought I'd hang on a little longer. I got through 4 issues of Secret Avengers and New Avengers, 2 of Avengers and I was done.  Just DC, Vertigo and Star Wars now for me.
 
I really liked aspects of DA; the Doom arc was fun, and I loved seeing Sentry as drawn by Deodato. Not to mention his Moonstone is gorgeous, but by the Molecule Man arc, I began to hate the series and picked it up purely because of Deodato.
#14 Posted by JediXMan (30608 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt: 
 
I still read the X-Men titles. I liked Second Coming. The current Uncanny X-Force series is fantastic. 
 
He's one of the main reasons I stuck with the series after Molecule Man. And yes, it did indeed go down hill after that.
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#15 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@JediXMan:  Yeah, X-Force looked sweet. I might pick up the trade. I do love me some Fantomex :D
#16 Edited by JediXMan (30608 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt said:

" @JediXMan:  Yeah, X-Force looked sweet. I might pick up the trade. I do love me some Fantomex :D "

He's even better in this series. All of the characters are written perfectly. Fandomex and Deadpool add a little dark humor (though Fantomex is deadly serious when the situation calls for it).
 
The art is rather nice, too.
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#17 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@JediXMan said:
" @FadeToBlackBolt said:

" @JediXMan:  Yeah, X-Force looked sweet. I might pick up the trade. I do love me some Fantomex :D "

He's even better in this series. All of the characters are written perfectly. Fandomex and Deadpool add a little dark humor (though Fantomex is deadly serious when the situation calls for it).  The art is rather nice, too. "
Cool, thanks for the recommendation. I respect your taste, so I'll have to check it out when it comes out in trade form. 
 
Btw, did I ever tell you that I read the TotJ series? Redemption is one of my favourite stories ever. Loved every second of it.
#18 Posted by JediXMan (30608 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt: 
 
TotJ is a fantastic series. Redemption had a great story, but I didn't like the art.
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#19 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@JediXMan: Really? I actually loved the art. I preferred it to the previous TotJ stuff, though that's probably because it was a more modern streamlined style, which I am guilty of liking a lot. 
 
Ulic's quote; "The past still weighs heavily upon me. Yes, I have done many things in my life—but they weren't all bad. Perhaps I can find peace now" is one of the most beautiful things I've ever read in a comic. 
#20 Posted by JediXMan (30608 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt: 
 
It definitely had the standard 90s vibe that a lot of comics had. I prefer a more realistic style with less sharp edges. 
 
It was brilliantly written. Again, it was just the art. The story was amazing.
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#21 Posted by Deadcool (6810 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt said:
" @JediXMan: True. The Void was the telepathic powerhouse, not the Sentry.   BECAUSE THEY'RE TWO DIFFERENT ENTITIES BENDIS YOU ****ING TWIT!  ....Sorry about that. "
...
"I can feel your anger", but I don't share the same feeling, for me, Bendis' Sentry is the evolution of Jenkins' Sentry, a new step, since both are combined because Bob knows the truth.
#22 Posted by TypingKira (3509 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt said:
" @JediXMan: The original Sentry series is one of my favourite books ever, it was a beautifully told tale of a mentally ill person overcoming their demons to become the greatest hero of all time, and then giving away that legacy to protect humanity.   Then Bendis came along and ****ed the whole thing by making Bob a villain and an easily manipulated puppet. The real Sentry would have seen through Osborn's charade before anyone else and taken him and his Dark Avengers down in a fraction of a second. "
I would have liked that idea if it had been executed right (it was the siege/dark reign event in which I discovered the character and all his awesomesauce), like if Osborn had something real to hold over Sentry's head or if the Sentry had shown signs of rebellion. It could have been great, but like you said in just so many words, Bendis was an idiot. 
#23 Posted by Deadcool (6810 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt said:
" @JediXMan: The original Sentry series is one of my favourite books ever, it was a beautifully told tale of a mentally ill person overcoming their demons to become the greatest hero of all time, and then giving away that legacy to protect humanity.   Then Bendis came along and ****ed the whole thing by making Bob a villain and an easily manipulated puppet. The real Sentry would have seen through Osborn's charade before anyone else and taken him and his Dark Avengers down in a fraction of a second. "
Have you ever read Sentry vol. 2 by Jenkins?
#24 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deadcool: Yeah, I have. I preferred the first series though.
#25 Posted by TypingKira (3509 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deadcool: I haven't, is it good? 
#26 Posted by Deadcool (6810 posts) - - Show Bio
@TypingKira:  Yes, basically, is why Bendis' Sentry is so crazy and sad, there are no real difference between Jenkins' Sentry and Bendis' Sentry.
  1. Sentry Vol. 1: Is about Bob thinking that he is a hero at the end, he discovers that he and Void are the same.
  2. Sentry Vol. 2: Here you (as reader) discover that Bob have always been void, and Sentry is not real, that Bob is also a junkie.
  3. Bendis'  Sentry: Sentry and Void have merged into one person, he doesn't know who really is him.
#27 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deadcool said:
" @TypingKira:  Yes, basically, is why Bendis' Sentry is so crazy and sad, there are no real difference between Jenkins' Sentry and Bendis' Sentry.
  1. Sentry Vol. 1: Is about Bob thinking that he is a hero at the end, he discovers that he and Void are the same.
  2. Sentry Vol. 2: Here you (as reader) discover that Bob have always been void, and Sentry is not real, that Bob is also a junkie.
  3. Bendis'  Sentry: Sentry and Void have merged into one person, he doesn't know who really is him.
"
At the end of Volume 2 Sentry destroyed the Void though. And Vol 1 and 2 are set in different continuities; one being Marvel Knights and the other being Earth 616.
#28 Posted by Deadcool (6810 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt said:
At the end of Volume 2 Sentry destroyed the Void though. And Vol 1 and 2 are set in different continuities; one being Marvel Knights and the other being Earth 616. "
Marvel Knights is from the universe 616
#29 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deadcool said:
" @FadeToBlackBolt said:
At the end of Volume 2 Sentry destroyed the Void though. And Vol 1 and 2 are set in different continuities; one being Marvel Knights and the other being Earth 616. "
Marvel Knights is from the universe 616 "
Yeah, but they're the identifiers that I use. The two Sentrys present are very different. The first Sentry is not a junkie, can not change from Bob to Sentry and is suffering from a more existential despair, whereas the volume 2 Sentry is a more "hard" version of the character. He now feels guilty for unleashing the Void on humanity, especially since, as we soon find out, he wanted to do it unconsciously. This is more in line with Marvel's grimmer characters that exist within the Earth 616.
#30 Posted by Deadcool (6810 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt said:
Yeah, but they're the identifiers that I use. The two Sentrys present are very different. The first Sentry is not a junkie, can not change from Bob to Sentry and is suffering from a more existential despair, whereas the volume 2 Sentry is a more "hard" version of the character. He now feels guilty for unleashing the Void on humanity, especially since, as we soon find out, he wanted to do it unconsciously. This is more in line with Marvel's grimmer characters that exist within the Earth 616. "
Yeah, but both share he same continuity, just like Marvel Knights Spider-man, that is where Mac Gargan got the symbiote suit.
#31 Posted by TypingKira (3509 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deadcool: @FadeToBlackBolt: Serious discussion in progress. . . I just wanted to know if a comic was good. . . lol. 
#32 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deadcool said:
" @FadeToBlackBolt said:
Yeah, but they're the identifiers that I use. The two Sentrys present are very different. The first Sentry is not a junkie, can not change from Bob to Sentry and is suffering from a more existential despair, whereas the volume 2 Sentry is a more "hard" version of the character. He now feels guilty for unleashing the Void on humanity, especially since, as we soon find out, he wanted to do it unconsciously. This is more in line with Marvel's grimmer characters that exist within the Earth 616. "
Yeah, but both share he same continuity, just like Marvel Knights Spider-man, that is where Mac Gargan got the symbiote suit. "
Yes, but they're not really in continuity. Volume 2 is more of an update/retcon.
#33 Posted by Deadcool (6810 posts) - - Show Bio
@TypingKira said:
" @Deadcool: @FadeToBlackBolt: Serious discussion in progress. . . I just wanted to know if a comic was good. . . lol.  "
Oops sorry, yes it is good...
 
@FadeToBlackBolt said:
Yes, but they're not really in continuity. Volume 2 is more of an update/retcon. "
Then, Why do you blame Bendis?
#34 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deadcool:  Because Bendis turned him into a whimpering weakling. But even that was ok, what was not ok was that the message Bendis sent was that "mentally ill people are psychos and should be killed", rather than the Sentry's original message (in both volumes) of overcoming overwhelming adversity.
#35 Posted by Deadcool (6810 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt said:
" @Deadcool:  Because Bendis turned him into a whimpering weakling. But even that was ok, what was not ok was that the message Bendis sent was that "mentally ill people are psychos and should be killed", rather than the Sentry's original message (in both volumes) of overcoming overwhelming adversity. "
Well, Bob has always been evil, Sentry has never been real, and even like that, he was a good guy at the end, because he wanted to be killed, he finally knew who really is him, I enjoyed Siege, Dark Avengers and Most Dark Reign because Osborn and his relation with Bob, Because, Norman, Really wanted to help the Sentry, but, just like Bob, he is crazy, so he couldn't help Bob.
#36 Posted by TypingKira (3509 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deadcool: Whatever the question, 'blame Bendis' is usually a good answer. 
#37 Posted by SC (13110 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deadcool: Marvel Knights continuity and how it relates to 616, varies. Some Marvel Knights book are, some are not. Its not a consistent in that respect. Usually there are ways or places you can go to find out which ones are which. 
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#38 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@TypingKira said:
" @Deadcool: Whatever the question, 'blame Bendis' is usually the correct answer.  "
Except for Ultimate Spidey and Daredevil, Bendis has done nothing good for Marvel.
#39 Posted by Deadcool (6810 posts) - - Show Bio
@TypingKira said:
" @Deadcool: Whatever the question, 'blame Bendis' is usually a good answer.  "
"Blaming is the rational answer for the mediocre people"
#40 Posted by TypingKira (3509 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt: Moving on from 'everything is Bendis fault', I happen to adore the Sentry. I loved Siege and I loved what I've read of dark reign, and though it isn't much, I liked the sentry in all of them, for what it's worth. 
#41 Posted by SC (13110 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deadcool:  I think your discussing from a different perspective and context. I generally agree with FadeToBlackBolt's sentiment, your taking the in-universe perspective, we are talking the creative story telling aspects, which grants the writer to change and alter details, so its impossible to suggest Sentry has always been evil. Thats a plot development or character alteration, fictional characters can't be evil etc, just ask Jessica Rabbit. ^_^
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#42 Posted by TypingKira (3509 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deadcool: Touche. 
#43 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC: Thank you =]
#44 Posted by SC (13110 posts) - - Show Bio
@TypingKira:  I liked Sentry in those stories too. I think it robbed him of some of his potential and uniqueness, but Bendis did alright with some issues, especially some of the later dark Avengers issues. He also increased Sentry's popularity four fold, so if another writer tackles him in the future... people will know who he is. Similar sentiment to Ares. 
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#45 Posted by Deadcool (6810 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC said:
" @Deadcool: Marvel Knights continuity and how it relates to 616, varies. Some Marvel Knights book are, some are not. Its not a consistent in that respect. Usually there are ways or places you can go to find out which ones are which.  "
Sorry but that theory is not applicable, same problems could happen when a comic change the writer.
 
@FadeToBlackBolt said:
Except for Ultimate Spidey and Daredevil, Bendis has done nothing good for Marvel. "
EVERYTHING that Bendis writes in ULTIMATE universe is AWESOME, he is also perfect with street level characters, and HEROIC/MORAL speeches.
#46 Edited by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deadcool said:

" @TypingKira said:

" @Deadcool: Whatever the question, 'blame Bendis' is usually a good answer.  "
"Blaming is the rational answer for the mediocre people" "
So when someone screws up considerably, and continues to do so, you're not allowed to draw attention to it because you're mediocre?
#47 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deadcool said:
" @SC said:
" @Deadcool: Marvel Knights continuity and how it relates to 616, varies. Some Marvel Knights book are, some are not. Its not a consistent in that respect. Usually there are ways or places you can go to find out which ones are which.  "
Sorry but that theory is not applicable, same problems could happen when a comic change the writer.
 
@FadeToBlackBolt said:
Except for Ultimate Spidey and Daredevil, Bendis has done nothing good for Marvel. "
EVERYTHING that Bendis writes in ULTIMATE universe is AWESOME, he is also perfect with street level characters, and HEROIC/MORAL speeches. "
Perfect with street level characters? Moon Knight, Wolverine and 616 Spidey beg to differ. Moon Knight's new direction is an insult, Wolverine is a moron in Bendis' books. Seriously Logan said that he alone would handle Wonder Man. WONDER MAN. That fight would last a fifteenth of a second. And Spidey is just Bendis' way of indulging in immature humour. Spider-Man lacks the moral strength of character that has made him so endearing in Bendis books.
#48 Edited by Deadcool (6810 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC said:

" @Deadcool:  I think your discussing from a different perspective and context. I generally agree with FadeToBlackBolt's sentiment, your taking the in-universe perspective, we are talking the creative story telling aspects, which grants the writer to change and alter details, so its impossible to suggest Sentry has always been evil. Thats a plot development or character alteration, fictional characters can't be evil etc, just ask Jessica Rabbit. ^_^ "

Maybe, Marvel is known to have gray characters, Sentry could be the perfect example.
Damn I loved that movie.
#49 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deadcool said:
" @SC said:

" @Deadcool:  I think your discussing from a different perspective and context. I generally agree with FadeToBlackBolt's sentiment, your taking the in-universe perspective, we are talking the creative story telling aspects, which grants the writer to change and alter details, so its impossible to suggest Sentry has always been evil. Thats a plot development or character alteration, fictional characters can't be evil etc, just ask Jessica Rabbit. ^_^ "

Maybe, Marvel is known to have gray characters, Sentry could be the perfect example. Damn I loved that movie. "
Fallen Sun was Jenkins' way of saying that the Sentry was never, and has never been evil. Bendis mistook the Sentry's paranoid schitzophrenia and telepathic manifestation of another entity as multiple personality disorder. He didn't do the research, he wanted a scapegoat for Siege, and he decided to ruin the Sentry. It's as simple as that.
#50 Posted by TypingKira (3509 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt: @Deadcool: Both of you are being dumb about that mediocre/blaming thing. Deadcool, it wasn't very nice to say that, Fade, don't read too much into it.  
 
@SC: Good point, if he hadn't been brought in and then tried that whole 'destroying Asgard/tearing Ares up' thing, then he'd just be another character. I'd like to try writing him personally, he's such a complicated character it could be interesting to try. 

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