"Imagine if that scene had...banjo music. Nice article Babs! "The Banjo Music must return! :D The first ever review I ever watched on here was a Dark Avengers issue and it had that music in it xD
Great article. I think the way in which she was degraded and humiliated before eventually being killed fits in very well with how we expect Bullseye to behave. But like yourself I agree completely that the only real way to judge this personally myself is to see how her death is handled and delivered in future issues to see if it is indeed justified etc.
Well, it's not as if the degradation of a victim is out of Bullseye's character. Just look at the level of sadism the man has. He's wearing the uniform of his enemy, an image he has despised over decades, just to torment the original Hawkeye. This is selling what a sick and demented character Bullseye is. He's not someone to think of as the "cool" bad guy. The way people loved the original Venom, Eddy Brock; or try and see how Magneto may be an extremist, but still trying to save his own people. There are certain motivations readers seen in these two that they can tend to relate or even justify. With the way Bullseye is written for this. There is no gray area. He is evil without being that mustache twirling cliche. He feels like the kind of real evil you would find in a real world killer like this. A sadist and a serial killer.
This is merely speculation, but there are a lot of people who really don't like Sentry. Perhaps, what Bendis was trying to do was at the very least trying to get readers to feel sympathy for Lindy as the victim she was going to become. To get the reader to despise Bullseye more and actually feel something for Lindy's death. In spite of their feelings for Sentry.
Killing off comic characters in Marvel has reached such a point that when a character dies. It's hard to feel much of anything. More often they are even jokes. Even in your article, you admit that it made you "feel" something. How often do we get that kind of writing in comics? Just reading moments like that you almost feel like you are in Lindy's position and can feel the darkness of the moment slowly envelope you. You know that this is coming, but still feel a sense of shock when it happens.
I do have to agree. That this has to mean something past this arc for Sentry. Providing he survives. He can't just move on as if this never happened. This can't just be a moment in his life, but a "defining moment". The way the death of Bruce's parents is a huge motivation to him.
Seriously enjoyed this article. Well done, and I hope to read more of these in the future. BRAVO!! **applaud**
I had a problem with the issue for the reasons you mentioned. It was straight forward sort of. He plans to kill her, he degrades her, kills her, the end. Then I was lost because it was a flashback and I have no clue where in continuity this issue took place. What happened next?
Did Sentry bring her back? What happened in Siege #1? I missed it.
I felt like there should have been some hint at what was coming next. Maybe show that Sentry doesn't really believe Bullseye and now Bullseye just made a powerful enemy or something.
Can anyone tell me what came from this issue? What where the repercussions of this?
I would say the "taking apart" of Lindy pretty dam brutal. And made me feel really sorry for the character, and despise Bullseye even more. Who is one of the most sadistic un-redeemable characters in the Marvel Continuity.
Bendis uses the denigration of women by villains, to hammer home their inhumanity. I mean the whole Purple Man Jessica Jones thing made me feel dirty.
Does anyone else feel the coloring, after about half way through the issue, really changed/stepped it up a notch. I haven't been a huge fan of the really heavy inks and dark colors. Towards the middle/end, the coloring turns more to shading and less reliant on heavy inks and darkness. IMO it really takes Deodato's art to the next level.
Great issue. While I'm awaiting the Heroic Age with great anticipation, I'll be sad to see this book go. When is Clint gonna give Bullseye a severe beat down?! It has to happen soon. He's had some brief confrontations, but it seems like BMB has missed the opportunity. At this point it will seem like an afterthought.
my three issues with it..
1. Sentry has already resurrected Lindy from death. shown to be no problem. Makes it somewhat
pointless for alot of reasons, number one being Sentry didnt lose it that hard then, he immediately
found her and resurrected her (so the point is lost since he didnt act that heavily before, and he can bring her back again, who cares if shes dead? Bob shouldnt, since once he finds her she isnt).
2. Norman knew about the prior incident. He knew Bob could ressurect her. Yet he kills her to get rid of her? How does this work? He can bring her back and Norman knows it. So why bother. Also in Siege, Norman goes into great detail about how the Void needs to be controlled by keeping Bob stable (want some cheeseburgers Bob?lol <---Catman does, keeps his Void at bay, you know?), So why would after displaying to be the tactician and master manipulator he is, nationwide and then some, and knowing he needs to stable the Void by keeping Bob happy, would he do the thing that would make him lose it. they better have a real good explanation for it next issue
3. Bullseye out of character. The tormenting thing didnt bother me. Bullseye actually does this all the time, before, and after the kill. He is sadistic and gets off on it. Think Joker in DK. He goes into about how he got to see his victims reactions, and torments the guard, ect. Its all about the mind screw. The control.
So thats actually right for Bullseye, though understandable if one wouldnt be aware because alot of Bullseyes real panel time happens in side stories and mini's. What was out of character however was that Bullseye would actually commit to something that stupid. Lester just isnt that dumb. In fact Lester knows when to fear. And he is afraid of Sentry as much as he was Ares, if not moreso. And alot more than he is Norman. Lester goes pretty far, but he is spineless when it comes down to it, and would be smarter than to be the one to piss off uber-Sentry, no matter what was at stake, since he would know it will come down to his neck. He backed down with Ares for the same reasoning in DA ( " Be a man and take your meds or Ares will spank you!!!! " " Yes sir, cap'n sir! " ).
None of it of course moot when directed at the fact that Lindy already has died and Sentry brought her back to life with no effort at all, as if she never had died to begin with.
lol. thats my rant on it. otherwise the issue was better than the last few, art great as always.
My problem does not lie in the portrayal of Bullseye, I think he's a great character and yes, extremely sadistic. However, my problem is actually in the Sentry. I really hate him. I hate the entire concept of him, and the fact marvel tool a great mini series and completely destroyed it by bringing that character into the mainstream. To put it simply, I just want the sentry to die, and am holding out hope he does by the end of the Siege.
I might agree with your anger Babs if not for the fact that Bullseye has an extensive history of dragging out the slaughter of a woman (see Elecktra and Karen Page).
MY beef with this issue, Lindsay asked Tony Stark to kill her in Mighty Avengers (that's the lead into Secret Invasion). In fact, she's been killed a few times (once by Ultron)...so it doesn't make any sense to kill her now and she wouldn't be indifferent. You might be thinking continuity issues EXCEPT all those moments were written by Bendis himself.
I just think Bendis didn't know where to go with the Sentry. It's just stupid that the Sentry, a Stan Lee hoax of a character is now this all powerful god that the world forgot thanks to the Void...but now the world has forgotten the Void too? Makes no sense.
The only thing I liked about Dark Avengers is the concept of a crazy man playing shrink to a crazy powerful man.
I agree that the whole thing is a total Woman in the Refrigerator moment, but I don't have a problem with the degrading part. You're supposed to hate Bullseye, and the fact that he got this reaction from you just means that he was written correctly. Although, you did say that he was completely in character, so I guess I'm just preaching to the choir.
While the scene was brutal - it was totally something Bullseye would do.
He's one of the sickest/remorseless killers there is.
He's almost Marvel's equivalent to the Joker - at least as far as having no qualms about killing anyone - and enjoying it.
I think you're on to something here Babs cause I recently read Iron Man: Haunted and I have to say that the death of Gadget really bugged me. I'm not sure why since she was a character that was pretty much set up for that role alone but it for some reason stuck with me. I want to say though, that whole story was really fantastic but I still just can't help but drift back to the cover of Haunted #3 and feel so depressed at looking at Gadget there. Also, I want to point out that the list of "women in refrigerators" should include her since she too was crushed and mangled in a similar fashion.
I think the whole point of the scene was not to degrade her character before she dies or to make some sort of example of her I think it was done to cast Bulls eye in a more serious more ominous light...This scene shook me buy not nearly as much as Identity crisis did...I dropped the book when I saw what Dr. Light did.....
In that scene particularly, Lindy screamed PLOT DEVICE. There's an entire team, plus Victoria Hand crammed into one plane, but Lindy and Bullseye get their own? Ok. And then her dialogue was nothing more than, "what? he wouldn't" "don't say that, it's not true", I guess I wanted more power from her. This stranger, claiming to be a hero, is speaking to her about what may be some of her biggest insecurities as a superhero's wife and she's practically letting him. Red flag should go up when the person who is hailed as one of the "good guys" is degrading you. After that hideous exchange of words we have the choke, quite frankly, I wanted to do it myself for her being so weak. A woman without a backbone is not cute to anyone, and once again she continues to be spineless. Granted Bullseye is stronger than her, but Lindy did nothing to free herself of him. There was no attempted kick to the balls, no clawing at his hands to get him off her throat, nothing, she just accepted that this man was choking her to death. Should i be upset with Bendis or for Lindy being a sucky character? Idk but that issue was garbge.
I think that fact that women so often suffer at the hands of the creative teams, is simply because the heroes tend to be male. The only exception that pops to my mind is, you could kill Jimmy Olsen and it might have a strong effect.
and I'm with dr. detfink. Sentry was a nice gag and a fun mini series, but his inclusions since then has left so much to be desired. It's funny because they say he is Marvel's version of Superman, but he lacks the bit that is trademark with marvel. He's basically everything people complained about superman in the 70s. An impotent character with limitless power that is completely uninteresting. They haven't added anything new, and even the psychosis factor is bland and not at all riveting.
"In that scene particularly, Lindy screamed PLOT DEVICE. There's an entire team, plus Victoria Hand crammed into one plane, but Lindy and Bullseye get their own? Ok. And then her dialogue was nothing more than, "what? he wouldn't" "don't say that, it's not true", I guess I wanted more power from her. This stranger, claiming to be a hero, is speaking to her about what may be some of her biggest insecurities as a superhero's wife and she's practically letting him. Red flag should go up when the person who is hailed as one of the "good guys" is degrading you. After that hideous exchange of words we have the choke, quite frankly, I wanted to do it myself for her being so weak. A woman without a backbone is not cute to anyone, and once again she continues to be spineless. Granted Bullseye is stronger than her, but Lindy did nothing to free herself of him. There was no attempted kick to the balls, no clawing at his hands to get him off her throat, nothing, she just accepted that this man was choking her to death. Should i be upset with Bendis or for Lindy being a sucky character? Idk but that issue was garbge. "
" @The Devil Tiger: She would have killed herself ages ago. "Debatable... but still pointless as one poster have said earlier in the thread : Bob should have ressurected her, like he did before, so what ?
Maybe since Void's the part that wanted her dead so he could assert more control, he's preventing Bob from resurrecting her?
I pretty much agree with everyone's assertion that yeah, Bullseye is a giant bastard. It may be one of those 'refrigerator' moments, but it did get you to feel something, which was the point.
I was waiting for you to say something Babs... and here it is. Well stated, I think he (Bullseye) had to be this despicable in order for the retribution that is coming to him seem just. Bullseye truly lived up to how menacing and filled with cunning sadistic fury he has. Bendis is by far created a very exiting run here and I agreed with your points. Great art too, not often that the writing takes top shelf to the art but in this case I think it's well deserved.
I'm against everything Bendis has done to the Sentry and his supporting cast, I even wrote a massive blog on here about it.
On to the scene itself, I felt it was solidly written and well-executed, but it certainly was repugnant, but it still worked for Bulleye's character. However, I think having Bullseye commit a similar act to a random on the street would have had the same effect, without the feeling of Women In Refrigerators kicking in.
Side note: Deodato Jr is my favourite artist atm. I cannot say enough positive things about him.
No surprise here , it's The Sentry.
First, why degrade the character to that extent?
So it was a rhetorical question...
It is in character for Bullseye. I mean, I'm cringing when I write this, but I can admit it. It also succeeded in evoking emotion in me as a reader, which some might argue is kind of the point.
is that another rhetorical question?
What do you guys think, am I on point or way off base?
agreed. as well, in retrospect, just through the course of this year Bullseye killed some doctors,
" I mean bullseye has done worse, c'mon.
(right click and open in new tab)
i am one of the many who feels like Sentry himself is a plot device. all he is is marvels answer to the anguished "we need a Superman" cry . They made him and started using him in the exact same manner as Superman has been rather annoyingly used: The end-all-be-all to any situation unless hes indisposed. they made the same type of character a fanboy would make, immune to everything, more powerful than everyone, 85 different powers.... and for what?
yes, i think Lindy's death wasa pointless plot device, mostly because shes a character defined by her plot device husband. She was brought into comics as such, she "lived' as such, and she was killed all "shock value" like because they needed some reason to make some other point in Sentry's story work... is if it where some sort of mechanism whos sole purpose was to manipulate the story.... idk what to call it....
MARVEL's stories are 100% driven by their desire to see their heroes get into fights with one another. whether their pointless squabbles, random misunderstandings, or elaborate Wars. this is how they work. and a character like Sentry is just one big lightning rod for more of the same. But before the "Sentry vs. EVERYONE" scene.... we gotta knock off his wife.
... i would get into how her death is also another installment of Marvel's "women are for sex, saving, molestation, and being murdered(ssmbm)" mentality, but i feel like we all know that already...
She was killed for a reason, though-- but I agree that had it been executed in a different way, it would have had the same long tern effect (affected Sentry the same way).
I think having Bullseye commit a similar act to a random on the street would have had the same effect, without the feeling of Women In Refrigerators kicking in.
Granted Bullseye is stronger than her, but Lindy did nothing to free herself of him. There was no attempted kick to the balls, no clawing at his hands to get him off her throat, nothing, she just accepted that this man was choking her to death.
Comics are mostly read by males, especially adolescent males and young adults. Most men, and men of this age group in particular, have an innate, probably even genetic, drive to claim females as their lovers and mates (and eventually wives). There is a complementary drive to protect them against the advances, not to mention the physical and sexual aggression, of other males. Little else except threatening the children that most of the readers don't yet have and aren't even thinking about can raise play at their emotions in the same way that threatening/harming a female love interest would. Thus, the "women in refrigerators" phenomenon is inevitable and makes perfect sense. It's not even restricted to comic books or today's popular culture: saving/avenging the damsel is a trope as old as myth itself.
Having said that, I would add that I think there's a degree to which it becomes titillating and perverse fantasy rather than trying to strike at a noble and healthy emotional cord, but that too is nothing new. In any case, I think this hand wringing and hair pulling over the trope smacks of a bogus political agenda or, at least, ideological ax grinding. These complaints are rarely voiced against the male hero being threatened, trounced, and nearly killed in every issue. It's similar to the fashionable complaints about the unrealistic physical depiction of females in comics, with their tiny waists and gigantic boobs and perfect curves, meanwhile males are portrayed in that same unattainable standard and nary a peep is heard about that.
A well thought out issue though somewhat brutal but again it's the whole death thing with comics, it happens so often that you do just start to loose sight of the power that should be felt when someone dies. Even though this is relitivly in character for Bullseye it was a little much really.
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