Interview: Scott Snyder on BATMAN #10's Big Revelations - SPOILERS!!!

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Posted by G-Man (29481 posts) - - Show Bio

BATMAN #10 hits the stands today. With people in different time zones and all, we'll be reading the issue at different points during the day. I hesitate to post this now but the events that happen here are so huge and have such major ramifications for Batman, we had to go immediately to writer Scott Snyder to find out as much as we could.

This issue is where we get all the answers. If you go back to issue #1, you'll see the evidence has been there. This is what it's all been leading up to. Readers will be shocked and in awe when they see where Snyder is taking Batman.

Let's get to it. By now you should have made the choice to continue reading if you haven't already read the issue. Once you have read it or read further below, please do not spoil the issue for others. Feel free to comment as openly as you want in the comment section here. Don't go on Twitter or Facebook and ruin it for others. Once you get the information, use it wisely.

Also, the information about Harper Row mentioned in the second response is something you're hearing exclusively here!

Comic Vine: Page 1: Joseph and Maria Powers are mentioned. Any relation to Derek Powers from Batman Beyond?

Scott Snyder: Well, that's a very good question. The short answer is yes! As a huge fan of Batman Beyond, and the animated series in general, I love trying to reference things like that. One of the fun things I think for us since issue one has been taking things from the Bat-mythology that exist in the past, in the lexicon, or on the outlying field of comics, and re-interpreting them in our own way. This includes stories from within and outside of continuity. Taking these ideas and making them new and exciting and having stories to go forward so the stories are within continuity now. That hasn't necessarily been part of DC's in initiative but our personal initiative for myself, Greg, FCO and Jonathan. We wanted to make this almost a love letter to all the things that we think are wonderful about Batman across as many platforms as we've ever experienced the character.

It's specifically going to tie into Powers, who was one of my favorite characters in the world. I don't want to give anything away but I can say that the Powers name is a name that I have plans for coming up. I was certainly thinking about exactly that when I used the name.

== TEASER ==

CV: How much time has passed between issue #1 and #10? How much time has Batman had to recoup and process everything?

SS: Not much really. I mean, we wanted it to be something that feels like a punishing story that keeps coming at him. At the same time, you are going to see things coming up, like in issue #12, for example. I'll say this exclusively here, you'll actually see moments explored that you didn't see during the whole arc. You'll see things happen with Harper Row, who appeared earlier in the series in issue #7 and, as you guys pointed out as the only site that caught it, I think, in issue #1 as well.

(See article: This New Character in Batman #1 Could Have a Big Future Role).

Obviously this isn't Harper's first meeting with Batman.

Through her eyes, we're going to see some stuff that you didn't get to see before that happened throughout the series. It isn't like months have gone by. Without us being too specific, it's more a matter of weeks that the entire story took place. It was something that was meant to feel sort of unmercifully relentless where there wasn't a lot of downtime. It just kept coming at Bruce over and over and kept escalating out of nowhere.

CV: The Court of Owls suffers a major blow. Will they play a role in the upcoming TALON series?

SS: Yes definitely. They will definitely play a part. They're an essential part of the TALON series. Both their history and things you don't about their past in Gotham but also because they might not be gone. Batman has a sneaking suspicion about the scene in issue 10. Which he says openly that their resources are much deeper than he expected. This grouping that he finds is really only a small number of people given the size of the organization. They are still a force to be reckoned with. They're out there but they have been dealt a very very bad blow from him and he's not going to let up on them either.

Major Spoiler Time. Final Warning!!!

CV: Thomas Wayne Jr. Did you always plan on incorporating the ideas of Willowwood and Thomas Jr from the beginning? Before writing issue #1?

SS: IF HE IS, Thomas Wayne Jr….according to our story, it's still not over yet. Lincoln has simply raised the specter of Thomas Wayne Jr. And I'd point out, that if he is Thomas, in our version, he's different than the version that appeared in continuity. The old Thomas Wayne Jr. was Bruce's older brother but here Thomas is his younger brother. This is our "owl man," someone new, from the other side of the mirror of Gotham. Someone back from the dead, speaking (in his mind) for all the ones who came before, the owl of the city of the dead, come for Bruce.

In terms of this ending though, yes, we always planned on ending the story with this surprise, with Lincoln being the man that steps up from behind the Court and says, "Not only am I the one that took the Court down and took what I could to come after you myself, I'm the face behind your own reflection. And I'm your brother." That's what he deeply believes. That was there from the absolute first page of the outline when I pitched it to DC.

Part of the thinking behind was not so much to anything sensational or to do something shocking. The thing that's scary to Bruce is not just that he might have a brother but the mystery getting closer throughout the arc. In issue #1, he's really confident. Batman has everything under control. He can jump helicopters with his motorcycle and tell Alfred he'll be back in a matter of minutes.

What he discovers little by little is maybe this organization was real in history. Maybe they did have bases in his buildings. That's a big reveal. Then it becomes, not only were they there in history but they're still here and they have operatives working right now. That's closer to home. Then it becomes even closer because they have a giant maze right under the city that they're still using to run people through and and they've killed scores of people over the years. They've also manipulated the politics of Gotham. After that it becomes personal, Bruce discovers Dick was supposed to have become a Talon. That's super close, that's right in his family. Then the ultimate reveal here, not only has Gotham surprised him by getting closer and closer and closer to him, now it's saying it's right under your feet, right in your own home, right in your own bloodline this whole time.

For us, it was the inevitable culmination of the story from the very first page. It was never meant to be anything else. I hope they publish my outline with the second volume between me and Greg with the sketches he did of Lincoln from the very beginning.

One way you can tell it was built in from the very beginning, and Greg is going to be loving this, I think, is he took some criticism for having Lincoln look like Bruce when the issue #1 first came out. He was ready to go on and be like, "Well, that's what Scott asked for." I told him to go ahead and he said he'd just bite his tongue. He did and I'm super grateful and proud of him for that. Now it's revealed that we wanted that character to be somewhat like a reflection of Bruce in some ways. Someone who could say, "I'm your brother," and it doesn't look like that's impossible. So rock on, Greg! You're the best.

Willowwood did exist before!

CV: Like you said, originally Thomas Jr was the older brother. IF IT IS HIM, why make him the younger brother?

SS: My thinking really was, to have a retcon that established that Bruce had an older brother who lived to three or four, when the accident occurred - to establish that this brother walked the earth that long (regardless of whether he went on to become Lincoln) - to firmly state that there was an older brother who was alive for a few years at least, it just felt like too much for Bruce not to have known.

I thought about it really hard, like maybe they home schooled him because they were afraid of kidnappings. Maybe he never went to kindergarten so there wouldn't be a lot of people that would know. Honestly, it wasn't that it wasn't' doable, we could have pulled it off that way, I think? I just felt, out of respect for Bruce, that it was a better maneuver to have the retcon simply be that Martha was pregnant with a second son. That's the retcon. Whether that son survived the accident at all and became Lincoln March - all of that is not clear. All of that is still mystery. All we firmly changed so far is this: Martha was pregnant with a second son who seems to have died in a car accident caused by the owls, when Bruce was just about three. Everything else - Lincoln being him, etc. - that's just speculation so far.

In the end, though, I hope readers will trust that we were thinking very very hard in making the very best story we could and honoring the stuff that came before. We're not just changing things for the sake of change. We're trying to take things from the past and re-imagine them in our own way to give new, exciting and important stories moving forward.

CV: What can you tease about issue #11?

SS: 11 has the biggest craziest action sequence I've ever written in my whole life. It also has my absolute favorite personal moment with Bruce that I've ever done. I couldn't be prouder of it. I would totally remiss if I didn't point out that Greg Capullo, FCO and Jonathan have gone to town on this whole arc. These two issues, 10 and 11, to me are the work that are just masterpieces from page to page. And especially the emotional stuff in 11coming up, I know Greg is especially proud of. I'm incredibly proud of him for it.

And I can tell you that we can't wait to see what you think. We hope you enjoy it. We've put everything we have into it. We can't tell you how much it means to us how supportive everyone's been so far.

Staff
#1 Posted by DarthShap (874 posts) - - Show Bio

I see a big difference between this reveal, which I loved, and the previous ones:

Dick Grayson is supposed to mirror Bruce Wayne. Him actually being part of a secret organization of assassins does not work with that basic idea, the coincidence is just stupid and it makes absolutely no sense that the almighty court of owls did not kill Bruce and take Dick then and even less that they would not kill Zucco the moment he started to extort from their front.

The Gordons, the Graysons and the Pennyworths and the Waynes are supposed to be normal families. Joe Chill killing the Waynes is just a mugging gone wrong in a city of crime, corruption and a few dark secrets but nothing more. What makes Batman so exceptional is the moment right after that. He decides to fight against Crime itself and then everything changes. Supervillains and superheroes start appearing as a response to what he is doing. In Year One, he is just fighting the mob. Catwoman makes her appearance because she is inspired by him and The Joker takes this form because he was traumatized by Batman when he fell into these chemicals and so on...

That is why it does not work to have Gotham always filled with supervillains. It works against the entire mythos.

This element was organic, it worked and it made Batman special. After Snyder's run, all of that will have been destroyed and for what? One good arc with surprising twists but this essential part of Batman's mythos will be gone.

On the contrary, this reveal works perfectly with this idea. It uses continuity perfectly, in a Morrison-like way, and works with the mythos. Jr became an Owl because of great tragedy and he took this form as a response to Batman.

#2 Posted by mattydeNero (519 posts) - - Show Bio

I just got finished reading this and hopped on here to see if anything had been posted. Great stuff. One of my favorite issues so far. The "idea" of Lincoln/Thomas is really cool. Can't wait to see how it all plays out.

#3 Edited by johnny_spam (2028 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd be more impressed if it felt more original so far it feels very rehashed.

#4 Posted by erik_norris (191 posts) - - Show Bio

@johnny_spam said:

I'd be more impressed if it felt more original.

You're not impressed by the way Snyder reintroduced this character into new continuity while simultaneously paying tribute to OWLman from old Earth-2? Personally, I thought it was brilliant, not only from a twist perspective but also how it tips the hat to DC continuity hounds.

Staff
#5 Posted by G-Man (29481 posts) - - Show Bio

@erik_norris: @johnny_spam: Exactly. He could have easily created some new nameless villain. But this took careful thinking in making it actually work without feeling sensationalized.

Staff
#6 Posted by johnny_spam (2028 posts) - - Show Bio

@erik_norris: Well it's just that there already was a character reintroduced as Thomas Wayne Jr. in RIP who had a conspiracy against Bruce.

#7 Posted by shrmntnk62 (250 posts) - - Show Bio

I didn't see it coming, but I like it! I always thought Owlman was a cool character. I can't wait to see where this goes from here. 

#8 Posted by Dark_Vengeance_ (13964 posts) - - Show Bio

WHAT THE F*******************************!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#9 Posted by erik_norris (191 posts) - - Show Bio

@johnny_spam: Right. I love Morrison, LOVE HIM, but I think Snyder pulled off a very Morrison twist here better than Morrison did in RIP.

Staff
#10 Edited by johnny_spam (2028 posts) - - Show Bio

@erik_norris: I won't disagree with you since it's an opinion but for me I cannot get into this new story when it feels so much like another one.

#11 Posted by JonesDeini (3616 posts) - - Show Bio

So that explains why they look so similar.

Thomas' role here reminds me a lot of how Morrison used Dr. Hurt in his run. Their are certainly points of synchronicity between their runs on Batman titles.

Actually turns out that Lincoln's role is exactly what I thought it would be, which is a bit of a let down.

#12 Posted by zachkastner (188 posts) - - Show Bio

I flipped out of my chair. Can't stop rereading it!

#13 Posted by DarthShap (874 posts) - - Show Bio

@erik_norris said:

@johnny_spam said:

I'd be more impressed if it felt more original.

You're not impressed by the way Snyder reintroduced this character into new continuity while simultaneously paying tribute to OWLman from old Earth-2? Personally, I thought it was brilliant, not only from a twist perspective but also how it tips the hat to DC continuity hounds.

It is not "old Earth-2", it was post-Crisis Antimatter Universe. The storyline was called Earth-2 but the place was not and was actually based on pre-Crisis Earth-3.

@erik_norris said:

@johnny_spam: Right. I love Morrison, LOVE HIM, but I think Snyder pulled off a very Morrison twist here better than Morrison did in RIP.

Except that Morrison already did it twelve years ago in JLA Earth-2. ^^

#14 Posted by erik_norris (191 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarthShap said:

@erik_norris said:

@johnny_spam said:

I'd be more impressed if it felt more original.

You're not impressed by the way Snyder reintroduced this character into new continuity while simultaneously paying tribute to OWLman from old Earth-2? Personally, I thought it was brilliant, not only from a twist perspective but also how it tips the hat to DC continuity hounds.

It is not "old Earth-2", it was post-Crisis Antimatter Universe. The storyline was called Earth-2 but the place was not and was actually based on pre-Crisis Earth-3.

Fair enough. All I meant was it was just tippin' the hat to Morrison's JLA Earth 2 story.

Staff
#15 Posted by primepower53 (5686 posts) - - Show Bio

Must....resist....reading this.

#16 Posted by G-Man (29481 posts) - - Show Bio

@zachkastner: Go back and re-read the earlier issues also. Snyder is brilliant. So many clues were there.

Staff
#17 Posted by BlackArmor (6121 posts) - - Show Bio

Did you really think I could resist reading this before the issue? This is here, the issue is across town, and I'm bored, I was doomed before I even turned on my computer

#18 Posted by DoctorTrips (127 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd be far more surprised if Lincoln was revealed to be an insane Martha Wayne who'd gotten a sex change operation.

#19 Posted by Friskynesss (65 posts) - - Show Bio

This is killing me!!

I need to get my hands on this issue NOW O.O

#20 Posted by Friskynesss (65 posts) - - Show Bio

hey... if Thomas Jr. was an Owl doesn't that just line up with JLA Earth-2 wherein the Thomas Wayne of that parallel universe did become Owlman O.O

#21 Edited by kennybaese (1009 posts) - - Show Bio

While I am loving Snyder's run on the book, I do have to agree a little with some of the sentiment here that it is very similar to the RIP part of Morrison's Batman run. Lincoln seems simply to be Dr. Hurt from that story, but as a more physical threat to Bruce than a psychological one. It's interesting to me that Snyder chose to use Thomas Wayne Jr. as the big reveal when Morrison used the same thing as his big twist in RIP only a couple of years prior.

That said, the story so far has been fantastic. The idea that the Court has wormed its way into nearly every facet of Bruce's life without him realizing it is a very cool one. It isn't often we see the Batman caught off guard, and Snyder has done a fantastic job of making the Batman seem vulnerable without making him seem weak. We all know Bruce will win in the end, but the fact that anyone got this close to him in such a convincing way is pretty cool.

EDIT: It would appear that Thomas Wayne Jr. and Thomas Wayne from RIP and such are two different characters (one being Bruce's lost brother and the other being his decedent from the early days of Gotham), in which case this reveal is a bit more original.

#22 Posted by mbembet (219 posts) - - Show Bio

i can't wait for snyder to leave Batman but too bad that ain't happening soon lol

#23 Posted by TheWitchingHour (1340 posts) - - Show Bio

@DoctorTrips said:

I'd be far more surprised if Lincoln was revealed to be an insane Martha Wayne who'd gotten a sex change operation.

YES!!!!!

#24 Posted by Suprman (442 posts) - - Show Bio

I just finished reading it and I really enjoyed it. I do the similarities between Dr. Hurt and Thomas/Lincoln but for some reason this just works better for me. Maybe it's because I think the court of owls itself is great and I loved seeing them rattled by Batman. It could just be personal taste. Whatever it is I'm off tomorrow so I'll probably be reading both of those books.

#25 Posted by KRYPTON (1886 posts) - - Show Bio

My new favorite interview

#26 Edited by DarthShap (874 posts) - - Show Bio

@kennyshat said:

That said, the story so far has been fantastic. The idea that the Court has wormed its way into nearly every facet of Bruce's life without him realizing it is a very cool one. It isn't often we see the Batman caught off guard, and Snyder has done a fantastic job of making the Batman seem vulnerable without making him seem weak. We all know Bruce will win in the end, but the fact that anyone got this close to him in such a convincing way is pretty cool.

The thing is, the Court really "has not wormed its way into Bruce's life". According to this story, it was there from the beginning. That is not a well thought plan (like Hush) or the result of a temporal paradox (like RIP).

The only reason why the Court got this close to him is a LOT of coincidences and the invention of an overly powerful and omnipresent secret society of supervillains which came out of nowhere.

#27 Posted by Cavemold (1649 posts) - - Show Bio

Lincoln march you cunning bastard

#28 Posted by WhySoCarefree (12 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarthShap: I don't think that the coincidence, invention or 'came out of nowhere' argument can be used in this case. We are in a post-Flashpoint world, as you know, and NOTHING, is established besides key elements of the characters and their personalities, in the most part at least. The Court may not have existed in pre-New 52, but they always have in the New 52.

We can't look towards the past in the case of this story.

I realise that I sound like a Snyder fanboy, which I am, but it needs to be clear that in this continuity, they are not coincidences but rather facets of the New 52 Batman timeline.

#29 Posted by kennybaese (1009 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarthShap said:

I see a big difference between this reveal, which I loved, and the previous ones:

Dick Grayson is supposed to mirror Bruce Wayne. Him actually being part of a secret organization of assassins does not work with that basic idea, the coincidence is just stupid and it makes absolutely no sense that the almighty court of owls did not kill Bruce and take Dick then and even less that they would not kill Zucco the moment he started to extort from their front.

The Gordons, the Graysons and the Pennyworths and the Waynes are supposed to be normal families. Joe Chill killing the Waynes is just a mugging gone wrong in a city of crime, corruption and a few dark secrets but nothing more. What makes Batman so exceptional is the moment right after that. He decides to fight against Crime itself and then everything changes. Supervillains and superheroes start appearing as a response to what he is doing. In Year One, he is just fighting the mob. Catwoman makes her appearance because she is inspired by him and The Joker takes this form because he was traumatized by Batman when he fell into these chemicals and so on...

That is why it does not work to have Gotham always filled with supervillains. It works against the entire mythos.

This element was organic, it worked and it made Batman special. After Snyder's run, all of that will have been destroyed and for what? One good arc with surprising twists but this essential part of Batman's mythos will be gone.

On the contrary, this reveal works perfectly with this idea. It uses continuity perfectly, in a Morrison-like way, and works with the mythos. Jr became an Owl because of great tragedy and he took this form as a response to Batman.

@DarthShap said:

@kennyshat said:

That said, the story so far has been fantastic. The idea that the Court has wormed its way into nearly every facet of Bruce's life without him realizing it is a very cool one. It isn't often we see the Batman caught off guard, and Snyder has done a fantastic job of making the Batman seem vulnerable without making him seem weak. We all know Bruce will win in the end, but the fact that anyone got this close to him in such a convincing way is pretty cool.

The thing is, the Court really "has not wormed its way into Bruce's life". According to this story, it was there from the beginning. That is not a well thought plan (like Hush) or the result of a temporal paradox (like RIP).

The only reason why the Court got this close to him is a LOT of coincidences and the invention of an overly powerful and omnipresent secret society of supervillains which came out of nowhere.

I'm confused as to whether or not you like the Court of Owls I guess. You seem to be defending the Court of Owls in your first post while dismissing them in your response to me. I don't mean to be mean, I'm just trying to figure out where you are coming from.

I'm also inclined to agree with that relying too much on previous continuity in this case is problematic. Even so, them "coming out of nowhere" seems to kind of be the point. They aren't completely coming out of nowhere, but the fact that Bruce had been unable to find anything about them before suggests that they've done a very good job of hiding up until this point. Given the amount of power they've had until this point and the fact that he couldn't find them, it makes sense that they'd ignore the Batman until he inferred with their plans.

#30 Edited by DarthShap (874 posts) - - Show Bio

@WhySoCarefree said:

@DarthShap: I don't think that the coincidence, invention or 'came out of nowhere' argument can be used in this case. We are in a post-Flashpoint world, as you know, and NOTHING, is established besides key elements of the characters and their personalities, in the most part at least. The Court may not have existed in pre-New 52, but they always have in the New 52.

We can't look towards the past in the case of this story.

I realise that I sound like a Snyder fanboy, which I am, but it needs to be clear that in this continuity, they are not coincidences but rather facets of the New 52 Batman timeline.

The "coincidence" criticism IS 100% relevant. Even within the story, it is only by coincidence that Bruce would adopt the one and only Talon of this generation. And, as I explained before, it just makes no sense that the Court would not kill Tony Zucco the very day he started to threaten the circus. It does not make a lot more sense that the Court would let Bruce adopt Dick.

It is also a coincidence that the only big Gotham family with a kid pretty much no one had heard of except the parents and the butler (which made him exactly the perfect candidate for what the Court had planed) was a Wayne.

It is also completely coincidental that the Court would be pick the Owls, the perfect predator of bats...the future symbol of a certain someone.

As for not caring about the past, if that is the case, how we are supposed to read a book which started with a direct Year One reference (an owl killing THE bat, the one which without warning it comes... crashing through the window of your study... and mine...) and then gives us this twist referencing obscure Bronze age stories and Morrison's JLA : Earth 2.

#31 Edited by DarthShap (874 posts) - - Show Bio

@kennyshat said:

I'm confused as to whether or not you like the Court of Owls I guess. You seem to be defending the Court of Owls in your first post while dismissing them in your response to me. I don't mean to be mean, I'm just trying to figure out where you are coming from.

I'm also inclined to agree with that relying too much on previous continuity in this case is problematic. Even so, them "coming out of nowhere" seems to kind of be the point. They aren't completely coming out of nowhere, but the fact that Bruce had been unable to find anything about them before suggests that they've done a very good job of hiding up until this point. Given the amount of power they've had until this point and the fact that he couldn't find them, it makes sense that they'd ignore the Batman until he inferred with their plans.

I liked that Snyder made Jr an Owlman. This is a good twist and a great use of continuity. It also fits the way Batman villains are made: it starts with a tragedy and through a reflection of Batman, a new villain is born, inspired by Batman in a twisted way. Snyder is obviously a huge Killing Joke and Arkham Asylum fan and that was the whole point of those graphic novels.

He is not subtle about it though and in my opinion, he should stop saying the word "mirror". We get it, we have read those books too. ^^

But I do not like the whole Court of Owls concept, at least not its pre-existence.

Pre-Batman, Gotham is supposed to be a city of crime and corruption, not a city of supervillains.

#32 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29332 posts) - - Show Bio

@WhySoCarefree said:

The Court may not have existed in pre-New 52, but they always have in the New 52.

I've had this thought in my head throughout the entire story arc.

Glad I wasn't alone in that logic.

#33 Posted by MilosRadmilac092 (24 posts) - - Show Bio

OH MY GOD... I just read it!!!!!! I am like WOW!!! I mean when I heard the Court of OWLS story OWLMAN went trough my mind - Owlman of the evil universe, the parallel to Batman... And Capullo making Lincoln and Bruce alike... Holly %#@ Scott you managed it again!! Well done!! Loved the issue!!

#34 Edited by EvanTheMexiJew (99 posts) - - Show Bio

YES! Snyder is a genius! I always knew the Court would have something to do with the Owlman of Earth-3, but the way he uses Thomas Wayne Jr. similar to the way Morrison used Thomas Sr. is beautiful. Can't wait to see how the Owlman vs Batman fight will play out!

#35 Posted by RedOwl_1 (1664 posts) - - Show Bio

I KNEW IT I knew was releted to Derek Powers YEEEEEEES I love you Snyder

Oh and 12 issue cover..........oh my ........... I saw it last week and I see it now and I could pass the same 2 hours looking at it like I did first time.......... IT'S JUST SO F*CKING BEAUTIFUL :'D

#36 Posted by Outside_85 (7173 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder if Snyder has any ideas of his own or he just Frankensteins those of others into something decent?

#37 Posted by DEGRAAF (7813 posts) - - Show Bio

I was ok with Dick Grayson supposed to be a Talon but Bruce should not have a brother and while i could see the Talon comic being a hit i dont think they put enough thought in to it. Like wouldnt Dick have known Talon? It sounds like Talon is going to be the person Dick could have become if he wasnt adopted by Bruce.

So is Thoms Jr going to be Owlman now?

#38 Edited by feargalr (1126 posts) - - Show Bio

I can't figure out if I love this move or hate it :/ Batman so far has been great, but I'm not sure I'm like the idea of like "We're enemies, and brothers grrrr"

Then again I love the idea of Batman having a new villain, who's powerful and intelligent. Like I've only seen Owlman in that animated movie, but in my mind that doesn't really have anything to do with this.

I read some of Morrisons stuff with Dr. Hurt, tbh I wasn't a fan... I don't know why but I haven't read a single thing by Grant Morrison that I've actually liked, nothing against the guy, it just doesn't jive with me, cept bat cow, I loved that panel, so that character doesn't have any impact on me here.

Great issue, but the brother thing... I'll have to wait till next month to decide how I feel about it I think

Also if you could someone convince Scott Snyder to do a podcast with you guys, even just skype in.. I can safely say every comic vine user would be eternally grateful

#39 Edited by Falconer (141 posts) - - Show Bio

Ugh... I had the major twist spoiled for me. (I read that Bruce has a brother, but that's it. I'm smart enough to deduce that he's probably with the Court.) I'm only up to #7 and planned on catching up this weekend.

I feel like quitting the internet right now. :/

#40 Posted by kennybaese (1009 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarthShap said:

@kennyshat said:

I'm confused as to whether or not you like the Court of Owls I guess. You seem to be defending the Court of Owls in your first post while dismissing them in your response to me. I don't mean to be mean, I'm just trying to figure out where you are coming from.

I'm also inclined to agree with that relying too much on previous continuity in this case is problematic. Even so, them "coming out of nowhere" seems to kind of be the point. They aren't completely coming out of nowhere, but the fact that Bruce had been unable to find anything about them before suggests that they've done a very good job of hiding up until this point. Given the amount of power they've had until this point and the fact that he couldn't find them, it makes sense that they'd ignore the Batman until he inferred with their plans.

I liked that Snyder made Jr an Owlman. This is a good twist and a great use of continuity. It also fits the way Batman villains are made: it starts with a tragedy and through a reflection of Batman, a new villain is born, inspired by Batman in a twisted way. Snyder is obviously a huge Killing Joke and Arkham Asylum fan and that was the whole point of those graphic novels.

He is not subtle about it though and in my opinion, he should stop saying the word "mirror". We get it, we have read those books too. ^^

But I do not like the whole Court of Owls concept, at least not its pre-existence.

Pre-Batman, Gotham is supposed to be a city of crime and corruption, not a city of supervillains.

Fair enough. I think it fits given the amount of backstory we've been getting on Gotham in things like Return of Bruce Wayne and Gates of Gotham (less the specific events, which seem to hold, but more the general feel). Secret societies hardly seem like a new thing to Gotham because of stories like that so the idea doesn't bother me as much.

#41 Edited by DarthShap (874 posts) - - Show Bio

@kennyshat said:


Fair enough. I think it fits given the amount of backstory we've been getting on Gotham in things like Return of Bruce Wayne and Gates of Gotham (less the specific events, which seem to hold, but more the general feel). Secret societies hardly seem like a new thing to Gotham because of stories like that so the idea doesn't bother me as much.

Except that Morrison's return of Bruce Wayne used temporal paradox to explain it. Morrison did not go against this central idea he helped to shape. Batman still has this effect on what surrounds him. It just also happened in the past because of Batman's time travel and the hyper-adapter following him (which infected a XVIIIth century "Thomas Wayne").

As for Gates of Gotham, on the contrary the architect was not a supervillain at all, just a guy in his work suit who lost it and made everything up.

In my opinion, there is a big difference between those storylines and something like the Court of Owls.

#42 Posted by Miss_Garrick (1747 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow. I'm actually interested in a Batman story now. That almost never happens.

And usually, I can't stand any comic story that reveals a sibling to the hero out of nowhere. I have found that to be lame on a pile of stink, but Mr. Snyder explains what he's planning so intelligently and well thought out, that I'm not finding this lame on a pile of stink this time.

Whether I'll actually read this story or not depends on whether my local library will get the TPB of this in the future.

#43 Edited by ApatheticAvenger (1634 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm pleasantly surprised. I assumed Lincoln March may be a villain in disguise since his introduction, but not like this. Well played Mr. Snyder, well played.

#44 Posted by wessaari (613 posts) - - Show Bio

@DEGRAAF: you havent been reading Nightwing, they already tried making a Talon to replace Dick, but he failed in training and they tried getting rid of him but came back to get revenge on Dick because they were child hood friends at Halys. Bruce did have a brother in old continuity, Snyder just retconned it and reimagined it.

#45 Posted by Maybeland (14 posts) - - Show Bio

Didn't Morrison literally just do this Dr. Hurt and the Black Glove.

I was with Snyder up and til the end of this issue, but this seems like he walked down the hall at DC offices and asked Morrison if he could slap and different coat of paint to the last 5 years of Morrison's run on Batman.

It was a great journey with a terrible end. I hope issue 12 is up to better standards.

#46 Posted by HubrisRanger (144 posts) - - Show Bio

So totally sidetracked from OMG BIG REVEAL, I know, but where the heck in Harper in the first issue of Batman? I've flipped through it a few times now, and unless it supposed to be the girl with pigtails in Arkham (who looks nothing like her) or the girl at Wayne's party in the panels that show "Lincoln" for the first time (who also looks nothing like her,) I don't see where she is in the issue. Not saying she's not there, Snyder confirmed she was, but I can't find her and its driving me NUTS.

#47 Posted by bunkerbuster05 (294 posts) - - Show Bio

Guys... this is the real deal here.

This Batman series is hands down the best Superhero book out there. What Scott is doing with Batman, and also previously in the Black Mirror arc, is truly incredible.

I'm just so in love with the idea of Batman, who knows Gotham inside and out, realizing he was wrong this whole time. And with ("If it is him" feels appropriate here :P) Bruce having a brother, making him Owlman, just... holy shit.

And Nightwing is just as important in this, and his book is pretty great as well. Both series' have been using Court of Owls since the beginning, intertwining them together and whatnot.

I can definitely say I am 100% behind the New-52. With Swamp Thing, Batman, Nightwing, Animal Man, Green Lantern, Aquaman- I can go on and on. They are really nailing it. I'm a total Marvel fanboy, and my pull list is mostly DC now.

Bravo, sirs.

#48 Posted by Webjaker (366 posts) - - Show Bio

"One way you can tell it was built in from the very beginning, and Greg is going to be loving this, I think, is he took some criticism for having Lincoln look like Bruce when the issue #1 first came out."

That was my ONLY criticism about the Snyder Batman series ... now I feel like an Idiot!

#49 Posted by RedheadedAtrocitus (6885 posts) - - Show Bio

So need to get trades for this stuff when they are out. Its killing me to just read the spoilers and info like this.

#50 Posted by elcamerunoweaponx (5 posts) - - Show Bio

Best Batman comics by the New 52.

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