Off My Mind: Should Scarlet Witch Be Blamed for her Past Actions?

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Posted by G-Man (32486 posts) - - Show Bio

The idea of heroes betraying their teammates or being influenced to perform acts they normally wouldn't is something we've discussed before. In a world full of superpowers, magic, telepathy and advanced technology, there's always a way for writers to come up with scenario where even the greatest heroes can fall from grace.

What Scarlet Witch did was unthinkable. She betrayed the Avengers, caused the deaths of several members and was the reason the team disassembled. She later nearly wiped out an entire species when she said, "No more mutants."

Clearly she was not in her right mind when she caused all of this. There are several causes that could be assigned to the cause of her actions. Some of her teammates and fellow mutants have forgiven her but not everyone is ready to accept what has happened. The question remains, what should Scarlet Witch do next?

== TEASER ==

During the events of CHILDREN'S CRUSADE, we found out how Wanda got so powerful. She was distraught over the death of her children. She went to Doctor Doom, despite him being their enemy, because she knew "his magicks were more powerful" than hers and Dr. Strange's. With Wanda being a nexus being, a living focal point for mystical energies, they combined their magicks and tried to capture the Life Force itself. It turned out to be too much to be controlled and manipulated. It ended up possessing Wanda which lead to bad times for all.

Scarlet Witch did try to atone for her actions. As a demonstration, she successfully restored the lost mutant powers of Rictor. Her plan was to use her vast powers to restore the power to all the other mutants that suffered from her actions. She wasn't given the chance due to Doctor Doom's scheming and the fact that he syphoned off some of her powers.

In this pre-Avengers Vs. X-Men skirmish, the two teams were undecided what should be done with Wanda. Some felt she should be put on trial and others felt death was what she deserved. In the end, it was accepted that she did want to do the right thing. She wasn't fully in control when she unleashed her powers. She left and hadn't been seen for a while.

Recently (in AVENGERS VS. X-MEN #0), she turned up in Washington, D.C. fighting MODOK and various soldiers of AIM. Carol Danvers (along with Spider-Woman) convinced her to return to the Avengers Mansion. She received a rather cold reception from her 'husband,' the Vision. Because of her actions, he ended up being torn to pieces by She-Hulk. To say he feels betrayed by Wanda is an understatement.

AVENGERS #57, 1968

How many times have heroes turned on each other? There are several Avengers that were criminals at some point. Even Vision started out as a pawn of Ultron, meant to destroy the team. Wanda was a pawn as well. She wasn't fully in control of what happened. She wants to atone for her actions and knows it's not going to be an easy journey. People aren't always quick to forgive.

Vision is the one person whose opinion would matter most. In his mind, he suffered a major betrayal. A person he cared basically thrust a gigantic knife into his back.

Saying he should be forgiving and understanding is easy for others to say but regardless of what the reasons were, the doubt will always be there. The seed has been planted in his mind. She, in a sense, went behind his back and tore down everything he thought he knew. She could apologize and try to convince him how sincere she is but will it ever be enough?

It's hard to imagine that Scarlet Witch will simply go off into the sunset, not being able to win the forgiveness of everyone. She has a lot to offer and her appearance in AVENGERS VS. X-MEN gives the impression there's more coming. All Scarlet Witch can do is try to convince others she's sincere. The problem is because she betrayed others before, there's always the chance she could lose control and do so again. Vision and others should be able to give her another chance. It always comes down to forgiving and forgetting. The forgiving part is sometimes easy. The forgetting part isn't.

Staff
#1 Posted by funkyfiction (43 posts) - - Show Bio

I like the Scarlet Witch and I think that they should forgive her. The Vision will come around sooner or later, all the other Avengers sooms to have no problem with Wanda, except from Wolverine, but he seems to have a problem with almost everyone, he shouldn't even be an avenger.

#2 Posted by saoakden (1040 posts) - - Show Bio

I myself have gone through some betrayal recently. I can honestly say its not easy to forgive a person for their actions. To me, there is only so many chances a person can have. Once they done something unforgivable, it be hard to ever trust them again.

#3 Posted by Teerack (5845 posts) - - Show Bio

Her only mistake was trying to bring her kids back for morality reasons. I don't think it's fair to blame her for all of the aftermath of her dealing with the life force power, so hopefully she'll help make things right with the mutants and eventually everyone will forgive her.

Online
#4 Posted by leokearon (1790 posts) - - Show Bio

Wanda should be forgiven for her actions. She wasn't herself, she was overwhelmed by her powers and lost control. There have been plenty of times when heroes have done horrible acts and in a lot of cases get off scott free because it wasn't them in control. At least Wanda is trying to atone for what she did. I don't remember the Vision doing anything to atone for trying to take over the world, or Iron Man for murdering Yellowjacket.
 
Also the Avengers are all about second chances, otherwise we wouldn't have half the members.
 
Also G-Man Wanda never actually betrayed the team before as she wasn't in her own state of mind, the first time it is Chython and the second time she was controlled by Immortus.

#5 Posted by kamionero (313 posts) - - Show Bio

Well... she went cazy... right? do you really punish people with mental disorders or do you control them so they cant hurt anyone? And they need to explain this whole life-force tapping thing... is that really it... is she messing w reality again and this force we have never heard of was made up by her as an excuse and she manipulated Doom to have a scapegoat?

Also... isn't reality warping magic Capt. Britain's jurisdiction? Where are the Corps in all this!?!?!?

Also, whenever Jean comes back first thing they worry is "are we gonna have to kill her again? is she Phoenix-ey?" (it kinda bugged me the X-men never played that card... the "Well... we have to kill our beloved Jeannie all the time! Why should Wanda live?") I think they should be ready to take on Wanda were she go cray-cray again.

I think Wanda can't be an Avenger yet. She needs some lone wolf adventures... re-explore her powers. This is prime-time for the witch. She could defeat enemies while trying to atone and repower mutants.

#6 Posted by leokearon (1790 posts) - - Show Bio
@kamionero said:


Also... isn't reality warping magic Capt. Britain's jurisdiction? Where are the Corps in all this!?!?!?


Actually  that was the covered in Uncanny X-men's House of M tie-in where Roma and co threatened to erase Earth 616 unless Rachel and Betsy could fix the mess
#7 Posted by RedheadedAtrocitus (6885 posts) - - Show Bio

To err is human, to forgive divine. Just based on how she was obviously not entirely to blame for what had happened with her being a nexus being and going to unsavory characters like Doom in the attempt to bring her children back, it can be said that she is worthy of forgiveness for not having willingly did all this of her own accord. I think I agree with others in saying that she should definitely be forgiven but her action unfortunately cannot...MUST NOT...be forgotten.

#8 Posted by thewidowsbite (138 posts) - - Show Bio

No. More. Animosity...

The woman has gone through hell and lost her mind. Everyone should try to see it in her point of view, maybe they would at least give her another chance if they did.

#9 Posted by DocFatalis (1419 posts) - - Show Bio

@thewidowsbite said:

No. More. Animosity...

The woman has gone through hell and lost her mind. Everyone should try to see it in her point of view, maybe they would at least give her another chance if they did.

Maybe, but it's always easier to consider the "forgiving" option when the person to forget hasn't torn your universe to pieces, killed the people you loved etc... If any of the real world's tyrant came back to sincerely explain that those slaughters belong to the days "when they were not in their right mind because they had been through hell", I doubt many of their victims' families would be inclined to forgive them.

I'm just sayin'.

#10 Posted by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes! Blame her! Punish her! Spank her! Spank dat ass! Then maybe we'll forget.

#11 Posted by Nudeviking (479 posts) - - Show Bio

I wonder how much of her being around again will play into the Avengers and X-Men fighting each other in AvX. It seems like a more rational reason for the two teams to go at it than a returning Phoenix Force. Pretty much every mutant and former mutant hates her. Phoenix Force...Cyclops thinking it could help him seems really forced.

#12 Posted by TheGreyOutcastX (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

I think X-fans have had this discussion the most. Avengers fans usually jump to say yes forgive her and welcome her back to the team. That is the worst thing you could ever do. The Avengers have the notorious past of welcoming back fallen member so long as they look like they want to repent. It gets swept under the rug, and they will act like it never happened.

I said this in another thread about Wanda. You can't let her actions whether they were out of insanity or not go unanswered. That would be a slap on the wrist which is an insult to the readers. It makes it seems like heroes can get away with acts that rival what villains do. That heroes don't bother to reign in their own. That they face no consequences. Look at Illyana. She tricked the X-Men into aiding her in her vengeance against the Elder Gods. She nearly got what was left of mutantkind killed. Scott did what had to be done, and locked her away, and later put restrictions on her actions to insure it wouldn't happen again. Wanda should not get special treatment. She needs to repent, she needs to see and experience what she did to mutants and through that rediscover her own mutant identity. One act alone is not enough.

If she wants to redeem herself, if she wants to fix her mistake, if she truly wants to repent, she must come face to face with those that she harmed and little by little fix and aid mutantkind. Time she put being an Avenger on the back burner and clean up the mess she helped create. Earn forgiveness, don't waste your time asking for it.

#13 Posted by Lvenger (19320 posts) - - Show Bio

A point that was well made in the final issue of the Children's Crusade was that for all the horrors Wanda committed when she wasn't in control, if it was another hero who was in Wanda's postion, how would they want to be treated? And the answer to that one was of course as humanely as possible so that the correct course of action was carried out on Wanda. That to me is the right thing and is what superheroes stand for.

#14 Posted by Skaddix (3114 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes she should pay for her crimes

#15 Posted by MarvelMan1985 (152 posts) - - Show Bio

heck yes!

#16 Posted by KainScion (2973 posts) - - Show Bio

WTF?!?! she literally played god with their lives the whole world and now you expect us to just let it slide?!?!?! F@ck NO!!! anyone else had done it, lowest example paste pott pete, they would f****ing crucify the person. in my opinnion vision and wolverine have the right ideas (get the f out of my house & i'll kill you b!tch)

#17 Posted by Eyz (3095 posts) - - Show Bio

Awww, come on!

Leave Wanda alone, she already paid her crimes enough times!

#18 Posted by Planewalker (326 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes but I seriously doubt she will...

#19 Posted by That60sGuy (286 posts) - - Show Bio

Frankly I'm surprised the b***h hasn't killed herself!

#20 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7282 posts) - - Show Bio

Considering what lead her to commit those past actions, no.

#21 Posted by VagrantSaint (48 posts) - - Show Bio

I think they should just forgive her and get over it. Super-heroes going bad is one of those things in comics that just doesn't stick. It's kind of like super-hero deaths. Oh, Captain America died? Eh, he'll be back.

This isn't even the first time she's gone bad either. Am I the only one that remembers the "Darker Than Scarlet" storyline?

Though, I suppose they could reject her and then she could pop up on other teams. Maybe drop in on the FF for a little while, or the X-Men. How many of the X-Men have gone bad at some point and returned. Heck, it's pretty much a prerequisite for joining now.

#22 Posted by kamionero (313 posts) - - Show Bio

@leokearon said:

@kamionero said:

Also... isn't reality warping magic Capt. Britain's jurisdiction? Where are the Corps in all this!?!?!?

Actually that was the covered in Uncanny X-men's House of M tie-in where Roma and co threatened to erase Earth 616 unless Rachel and Betsy could fix the mess

Oh yeah! I remember that (even though Betsy supposedly was immune to reality altering lol)! But they never dealt with Wanda as the source of the disturbance, did they? I would figure they would hold a trial like they did for Fantomex or punish her like Jamie Braddock and Mad Jim Jaspers.

#23 Posted by ElvenBrit (6 posts) - - Show Bio

It all comes down to one thing... trust! You can love someone, but as soon as that trust is broken, it can never be repaired. Some of the Avengers may, and probably will welcome her back with open arms, but there will always be that element of doubt in the back of their minds.

I think she should rejoin the Avengers, it would make for some very interesting interactions between the Avengers and Wanda. Could anyone trust her in the midst of a battle? If you and her were the last two standing against a horde of villains would you feel confident she'd have your back?

#24 Posted by Aarsilade (15 posts) - - Show Bio

Wanda has been through Hell in her time, and she's done some great things as an Avenger. I don't think it should be blamed on Doom and swept under the rug, but she deserves an opportunity at redemption. The Avengers have given their share of second chances, and the X-Men roster is full of villains and mass murderers.

#25 Posted by DocFatalis (1419 posts) - - Show Bio

@AgeofHurricane said:

Considering what lead her to commit those past actions, no.

Do you imply that betraying friends and killing people is totally forgiveable as long as you were sad enough to start with?

#26 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7282 posts) - - Show Bio
@DocFatalis said:

@AgeofHurricane said:

Considering what lead her to commit those past actions, no.

Do you imply that betraying friends and killing people is totally forgiveable as long as you were sad enough to start with?

No.
#27 Posted by Chris2KLee (173 posts) - - Show Bio

She really screwed people over, and even with all the reality rebooting around her, there are a few bodies on her. If I was on her team, I'd play it cool, but always have a bullet ready just in case.

#28 Posted by HolySerpent (12517 posts) - - Show Bio

Of course they are going to forgive her...

#29 Posted by clemj (817 posts) - - Show Bio

I never understood why she became so like Dr doom

#30 Posted by Mbecks14 (2068 posts) - - Show Bio

The marvel universe forgives everyone. Dr. Doom and Magneto are arguably the most evil men on the planet and they've joined their greatest enemies. Scarlet Witch will be forgiven and they'll forget she went crazy and killed them.

#31 Posted by SupremeHyperion (1523 posts) - - Show Bio

can't she just make everyone forget what she did?

#32 Posted by BlueLantern1995 (2448 posts) - - Show Bio

Here's a thought. She tries to undo her wrong by saying something like "Just Mutants". This would be traumatic and even worse I think than no mutants.

#33 Posted by PhoenixoftheTides (3531 posts) - - Show Bio

No. Because honestly, most of these heroes have been controlled or manipulated before. The only reason their collateral damage wasn't worse was because their friends and colleagues were able to defeat them before they did collateral damage. Storm almost destroyed the atmosphere because her anger pushed her back caring about the side effects of her powers, Invisible Woman almost killed her family because of her issues coming to terms with her life, The Shadow King has controlled the X-Men on multiple occasions and they weren't blaming each other for trying to kill each other, Hank Pym created Ultron who is ultimately responsible for genocide, Magneto was guilty of trying to incite genocide as well as massive deaths and destruction yet people tolerate him just fine now, Thor's warriors madness has inflicted mass damage, Hulk habitually destroys entire sections of cities killing thousands when he loses control. Heck, the typical superhero fight usually destroys so many buildings and involves so many bullets, that civilians are probably killed or injured in pretty large levels. Thanks for pointing out how hypocritical Vision is being btw. As you can tell, I completely agree with the articles' point that other heroes have lost control or been possessed before, and think that undermines how they treat her. That's the problem with having all of this continuity - it makes the "heroes" look like hypocrites and ironically, this was the issue that lead to Scarlet Witch's breakdown; the Avengers no longer knew how to look after each other and started to look for "quick fixes" rather than taking care of each others' emotional health.

#34 Posted by Crash_Recovery (850 posts) - - Show Bio

No, she should not be forgiven.

At the very least, she should be forced into retirement, banned from use of her abilities. She deserves a criminal trial for her actions, with the permanent dissolution of her mutant powers on the table as part of the sentence.

Wanda has proved a planetary threat in the past decade+ of stories and that's hard to forget.

#35 Posted by pingclang (265 posts) - - Show Bio

Considering the depths of manipulation used on her, as well as Magneto being her daddy, Wanda was destined to go nuts. I think that she should and will be forgiven but the heroes will obviously be watching her every step. It's obvious she regrets what happened but what if she's still not completely in control of her mind and once nice and cozy with the heroes turned again? I hope it pans out though, I miss Wanda as an Avenger and would love to see her and Vision together again. One of the couples that's always been for me.

#36 Posted by Joe Venom (1275 posts) - - Show Bio

It depends, was she drinking PBR at the time?

#37 Posted by lovelyamy (21 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm a little torn here. However I do think the only person who can judge her can be the Phoenix. But isn't that a contradiction because it burns what doesn't work? I really don't know. But marvel had to reckon Jean Grey when she went phoenix and consumed an entire planet (or something like that), So marvel should do something like that. Oh geez IDK. :(

#38 Edited by garlyle (28 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, she should be blamed. Intention is irrelevant; all that matters are our actions and their ensuing consequences. She suffered a loss, but that doesn't excuse or justify the devastation she caused. She made her choice, and now she has to live with the consequences.

#39 Posted by Ijan092 (117 posts) - - Show Bio

Is a complicated question to be honest, If I was a mutant I wouldn't never forgive her. Her actions almost wiped out the mutant kind because she couldn't control her power

That's why we always have to keep in mind that ''With great power, comes great responsibility.''

#40 Posted by Dru_zod (213 posts) - - Show Bio

Wait where is rogue........................................................................Rogue did a Permanent ability swap with Ms Marvel................I don't blame scarlet. She was not in her right mind but maybe rogue should just Swap>>>>>>>>>>>>Swap.

#41 Posted by pspin (891 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't particularly care if she is forgiven, but as a huge X-Men fan I will say no, but since after House of M, nothing good has really happened to/with her, I honestly think she needs to die somehow

#42 Edited by Outside_85 (8707 posts) - - Show Bio

If they really persecute Wanda for her actions when she wasnt in her right mind, they should be fair and persecute everyone who's been walking down that road...

#43 Posted by Wowlock (208 posts) - - Show Bio

This is the case of Jean Grey and Hal Jordan. Some Higher-power possess them and use their body to do their bidding. They are victims as much as anyone. Her one mistake would be toying with power and dealing with Doom , no matter the reason. I feel sympathy for her , though and I think she had it worse since commiting such acts WITHOUT being yourself....is quite 'Soul-shattering' in a sense.

But I know, it is easy to say when we are not at the reciving end of that. I do not blame for others to not trust her this easily. After all, the wounds are still fresh but whether it will be easy or hard..there will be a long road ahead for Scarlet Witch. Maybe she can redeem herself in this event, though. In a most cliche and Jean Grey sense, I can see Wanda just saving Hope from being controlled by Phoenix , trap it inside herself and let someone to finish them both ? It is a bittersweet way for her to atone for her sins but I don't exactly support this idea since everything Phoenix involved in things...everything gets messed up quite alot ..

#44 Edited by Frobin (96 posts) - - Show Bio

In cases like Scarlet Witch's NO (should not be blamed, or at least forgiven) ... first, she had been in a very personal emotional stress situation with her kids and then you can do foolish things ... but it's an emotional and mental exceptional situation. You do strange things in such situations, you even ask enemies for help - because you're just desperate and lost. Second, in an exceptional situation (and with bad influence of Doom) she lost control ... predictable in a normal situation and from other people's point of view ... but not from her very desperate point of view.

BUT for example in case of Tony Stark I really see no reason why not to blame him for his crimes during Civil War! He wasn't under control of some strange force - it has been just his megalomania ... he wasn't in an emotional or mental situation caused by his alcoholism ... he did this because of he thought it is right and he cannot be wrong and he has to force the world and the superhero community into his visions. That's pure totalitarism, pure dictatorship ... and he stopped at nothing... he violated human and civil rights and hunted his friends down like villains ... he destroyed lifes just for his megalomanic visions ... that's how crazy dictators act .. that can not be forgiven.

In my opinion

#45 Posted by Miss_Garrick (1757 posts) - - Show Bio

It all boils down to this in my mind: Not guilty by reasons of insanity.

#46 Posted by PhoenixoftheTides (3531 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought a bit more about this and I think that Wanda has never had a seminal moment where she progressed emotionally. In some ways, her relationship with The Vision could indicate her immaturity and emotional instability. I want her to move past this. I know most comics writers believe women can't get over these relationships, but I would really like to see a scene where she says: "You know what Vision? I understand you can't move past it. I moved past the last time you tried to destroy us, but I get that you can't do the same, because what I did was horrible. I hope I would be worth forgiving, but I'm not forcing anyone to do that." Afterwards, she can just move on with her life the same way any hero in a similar situation did, and really get the upper hand instead of standing around like a little girl unsure of who to go to. She really needs to become more independent and learn from her father's example how to move forward as her own person, without the Avengers, if necessary. She's done more than enough for and with the team that she's one of the few characters that should be absolved or 'Avenged', at least.

#47 Posted by RedOwl_1 (1664 posts) - - Show Bio

Where's the forgiveness? I mean she's sorry and wasn't in "herself" when that happened, Why they can't forgive her?!? I can't (and don't want) to understand why they can't just do it

#48 Posted by venomoushatred1001 (12334 posts) - - Show Bio

Nope.

#49 Posted by ShockTrooper (17 posts) - - Show Bio

She married a robot. That was sign number 1 that your probably a little crazy.

#50 Posted by MrSinister (2 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm a big x-men fan and having recently read Avengers Disassembled I say she needs to face some sort of punishment. I know everyone's on Cyclops for wanting her die. I think that he personally wants her to die, but above that he and the rest of the X-men want her to be held accountable for what she did no matter the intention. Her going on a vacation to find herself and not being able to hang out with her friends is NOT any sort of atonement. She caused the most damage to mutants then any of their enemies. The X-men have always had enemies but after M-day they are constantly being attacked. I mean 45 kids died, and lots of former mutants around the world were killed since they could defend themselves against those who would prosecute them. Add to that that she forcefully used her friends to kill other avengers and probably SHEILD agents. So should the mutants forgive her, absolutely not. But since the Avengers who died have been brought back to life they will probably forgive her.

If you reread AD it's mentioned that she as a mutant was given control of magic never earned it. That she always had reality altering powers that she couldn't control properly. Whatever her past may be she can/is altering reality subconsciously to whatever suits her. They allude to this at the end of AD when showing how a series of fortunate circumstances *hint hint* lead to Wanda and Pietro joining the Avengers. If they can't find a way to depower her seriously then she needs to be confined like the other villains. As it is now she is still a danger to those around her (Life Force or not).

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