Off My Mind: Should Scarlet Witch Be a Hero or Villain?

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Posted by G-Man (29418 posts) - - Show Bio

There are many characters that were once villains and have a change of heart. There are also some that started off as heroes and then turned to the dark side. This isn't an unusual occurrence and we often see characters flip flop back and forth between good and evil. The Scarlet Witch is one character that has been on both sides of the playing field.

When Wanda Maximoff was first seen, she and her twin brother Pietro had been rescued by Magneto (unknowingly their true father) and they felt they owed him a debt. They fought along side Magneto in the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants but soon found their way in Captain America's team of Avengers along another former villain, Hawkeye. Thus, the Scarlet Witch was now a hero.

It appeared that Wanda's life was on track as she married the synthezoid Vision and, through her ability to manipulate probability, became pregnant and gave birth to twins. It was soon revealed that her twins here actual missing shards of Mephisto's soul and her children were gone. Wanda couldn't cope with the loss and turned against the Avengers.

Wanda eventually reverted back to her good self and became a hero again but this wasn't the last time she would switch sides. Is the Scarlet Witch's true nature to be a superhero or a supervillain?

== TEASER ==

Besides her mutant powers to affect probability, Wanda later developed the ability to channel chaos magic. That meant she could alter reality. Suffering another breakdown at the thought of her missing children, she began to rewrite reality in the Avengers Disassembled storyline, causing the deaths of Vision, Scott Lang and Hawkeye as well as returning her children to life.

Magneto took her to Genosha after Dr. Strange shut down her mind. This lead to her creating the House of M reality and ended with her "No more mutants" proclamation, causing nearly all mutants in the world to become devoid of their powers and abilities.

After spending some time in Wundagore, she ended up engaged to Dr. Doom in Latveria with no recollection of her past or the fact that she had powers. The Avengers, Young Avengers and Magneto sought her out with some members wanting to save her and others wanting her dead.

Surprisingly, we really haven't seen much of the Scarlet Witch between House of M and now. As a fan-favorite character and one that has become so powerful, it seems a shame for her not to be used. It's just a matter of how she should be used.

Where we left off in Avengers: Children Crusade, she now remembers everything. That brings us back to the question of what would be best for her character or what would we like to see done with her?

There's an appeal to reading stories focused on heroes and ones dealing with villains. There are also certain limits involving both. The idea of Scarlet Witch being a completely evil and ruthless villain would make for some excellent reading. The problem would be, is there any way to come back from that? Sure it's possible for villains to redeem themselves. Wanda's father, Magneto, is a perfect example. But there will always be that sour taste in readers and other characters' mouths.

We have seen Scarlet Witch do some truly evil things. She caused the deaths of some teammates (it doesn't matter that some were brought back to life, we are talking about comic books after all) and she was also responsible for disassembling the Avengers.

I would like to see her return to being a hero. It won't be an easy feat. Wolverine is ready to kill her without a second thought. She can try to atone for what she's done but there will always be that doubt. To me, that's what would spice things up. She would be the proverbial time bomb, ready to go off at any moment. Fellow heroes and villains will be on edge around her which gives her an extra edge over everyone. She had her taste of being a bad girl but it's time for her to become an Avenger once again. Seeing other heroes and mutants try to accept her and overlook her sins would make a much more interesting story over people simply fearing her as another villain running around.

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#1 Posted by Hawkeye446 (3940 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, Yes, YES! Bring Back Wanda to the home team, and put her back on the Avengers! Finally something good to come from Bendis' run.. If it actually happened...

#2 Posted by JonesDeini (3616 posts) - - Show Bio

Wanda's a good woman at heart. Unfortunately a bad writer made her do bad things, because you know...one of his favorite things to do is make characters go crazy and do bad things. Anyways, bring her back and have her fix M Day asap or dammit, Have some omega level do it. I don't care how deus ex machina it is. Some evils are necessary, Bendis' bad decision has been coloring my X books for faaaar too long. 

#3 Posted by Eyz (3095 posts) - - Show Bio

Too much has happened....guess her status will more often fall under "villain" nowadays :/

#4 Posted by Roninidas (383 posts) - - Show Bio

Interesting.  I think I would be interested in seeing Wanda pick up her Father's mantle and becoming an extremeist for a Pro-Mutant Right to live.  After all, she did nearly wipe out like what 9/10ths of the Mutant Population.  It really wouldn't be a stretch for her walk down this path.  Especially with Pietro and Magneto to lend their support.  Truth is Magneto has gotten kind of weak lately.  Most villains have.  Scarlett Witch going bad might just be the push the Marvel Universe needs to capture the Heroic Age.  I mean after all you can't have a Hero without a Villain.
#5 Posted by ExistenceBiker (59 posts) - - Show Bio

i dont agree wit the last comment due to she nearly whiped out all mutants with a few words !!
#6 Edited by TheOlympian (111 posts) - - Show Bio

But seriously, what is next for her?  Cap and the gang would welcome her but Idk.  Its kinda sticky.    Does she go to Utopia?  I would hope that the Magneto and all of his children could find some sort of closure with each other after the House of M event.  Then again, she would definitely polarize Utopia.  I mean, Legion has reversed a few depowerings seemingly because of Age of X, can't she reverse them all???  Could that count for Hero Brownie Points???  She's kinda like Superboy.  Her powers are seemingly just way too powerful for her to exist and for her to be believably in some sort of comic book peril.  


She's gotta die and stay dead.   
#7 Posted by lorex (928 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know that the X-Men villains have become weak, its more after M day they have realized hat there is strength in numbers and the only way to survive right now is to join their strength together. Magneto may her softened his position but several X-Men have take a more hardline position.

As for Scarlet Witch, I think it would be interesting for the mutants to put her on trial for genocide. No world court or press coverage, but a fair trial amongst her peers, with all her fellow mutants in attendance. If she wins she lived and if she loses she dies.

#8 Posted by leokearon (1707 posts) - - Show Bio


She should return to the side of good, it's not her fault disassembled happen, she lost control of her powers and more importantly, IT WAS BENDIS'S LACK OF RESEARCH THAT CAUSED DISASSEMBLED.

 

Ahem, still Wanda should return she is a victim of her own powers and she has been a heroine for most of her career, the only time she was evil was being forced to (Brotherhood) or being possessed by Chython or manipualted by Immortus.

#9 Posted by GothamRed (2561 posts) - - Show Bio

I honestly don't care, all I'm going to say is that if wanda does join the avengers, there will be a constant aire of mistrust up until she goes all evil again, like with jean grey after the dark phoenix saga

#10 Posted by perry_411 (428 posts) - - Show Bio

Here's a better idea. Add nuance to the character. There is no reason to paint her as one person or the other, she's done what she's done and will move on from there. With X-23, she's a clear murderess who is looking for her "soul." Wolverine is somehow considered a hero, even though he's murdered millions and will go to Hell with Creed. Perhaps when the Schism occurs, it will be her pursuing an agenda she believes to be right. Similar to the old Prof X vs. Magneto conflict, one person believes in peace which is clearly not possible, and one believed in unity for strength, which would remove genetic variation from the mutant populace.

#11 Posted by Skaddix (3106 posts) - - Show Bio

Look all mutants and ex mutants should want her dead. The only way she redeems is someone else controlling her or if she reverses. She cannot just go back to the Avengers like nothing ever happened.

#12 Posted by Raven575 (38 posts) - - Show Bio

She is way too powerful...wolverine should end her, then off himself.

#13 Posted by Bestostero (5611 posts) - - Show Bio

It's about time she return from obscurity... I just hope they don't mess her up like they did with Jean.

#14 Posted by Squares (3127 posts) - - Show Bio

The Scarlet Witch is a classic example of a character that truly wishes to do well but ends up causing more harm than good. She's dealt with years and years of abuse, and spent a good amount of time with the Avengers trying to become a strong, independant person, only to have her attempts at personal growth collapse as she's put under more stress than she's capable of handling and, inevitably, collapses. After all, not everybody can handle the arduous lifestyle of a superhero.
Of note is the nature of her powers- reality manipulation. How many truly powerful individuals with this ability stay truly sane for long? One can hardly blame them, what we perceive as reality is such an intrinsic part of our everyday life that even challenging the concept can be harmful.

In my opinion, The Scarlet Witch cannot reasonably function as a villain, not as a long-term role. She's entirely too sensitive to intentionally cause harm, and though her sanity may lapse, she probably won't go out of her way to cause death and/or destruction that often.

#15 Posted by Baddamdog (2222 posts) - - Show Bio

Ongoing series anyone?

#16 Posted by Out_of_Space (720 posts) - - Show Bio

I prefer her being a villain

#17 Posted by TheMinister707 (103 posts) - - Show Bio

Join the Thunderbolts.

#18 Posted by RareCheshire (190 posts) - - Show Bio

She would make an awesome villainess!

#19 Posted by chalkshark (1171 posts) - - Show Bio

She's done too much to come back to the side of the angels. There's no way that narrative would work. Her actions have resulted in the deaths of three Avengers, one of whom was her ex-husband. She's at fault for all the damage She-Hulk wrought while under her spell. She's pushed an entire species to the brink of extinction. She's responsible for all the mutant deaths that resulted from mutants suddenly losing their powers in the midst of doing something dangerous, like flying a mile or so above the ground. It's too late. You can't bring the Scarlet Witch back from  all that. The Avengers could never trust her again, & a large portion of the membership would always bear her great resentment. To the mutant population, she might as well be Hitler. She's never been tried for her crimes. Never faced any kind of justice. Never been held accountable for any of her actions. The basic attitude has been to leave her alone before she does anything more terrible to the world.

The only way I could see her being written in a heroic fashion again is if you took her off world. Have her adventures happen in the far reaches of space where all of her earth born baggage could be left behind. It's the only fresh start you could give her, after all that has been done to her character.
#20 Posted by ltbrd (552 posts) - - Show Bio

I prefer she not come back at all.....she's been made far too powerful a character compared to other mutants and high ranking sorcerer's.
#21 Posted by Green ankh (997 posts) - - Show Bio
@raven575 said:
She is way too powerful...wolverine should end her, then off himself.

amen
#22 Posted by Iron_Lad (315 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think Scarlet Witch should be a villain, she's a hero. They just need to resolve the issue of Wanda and her children, which is the entire cause of her going insane. Speed and Wiccan can provide her with some stability in the future so that she doesn't go crazy again. Also, I think they should have her undo all the negative that she caused, such as undoing M-day and reviving dead Avengers that she's killed. That way they can bring her back without having everyone out there (ex-mutants / X-men / Avengers) gunning for her when she returns.

#23 Posted by Top Flight Security (142 posts) - - Show Bio

I say let her play the wild card. She can have an edge about her now that she says she remembers everything. Wanda can still be upset over the loss of her children and be hurt over the fact that her friends had to make a choice to allow her to live or die. Wanda can do heroic deeds but do the things that suit her. And if someone crosses her, she can let them know how powerful she truly is.

#24 Posted by TDK_1997 (13694 posts) - - Show Bio

Back in the Avengers

Online
#25 Posted by SC (11960 posts) - - Show Bio

Hero. The only reasons I ever see promoting her as a villain have been from people using the in story perspective, Too powerful, look what she did, look at the horrible consequences. You use in story reasoning and bam. No comics. Would have ended 60 years ago. Creative decisions are made in the real world. The fictional world caters to real life creative decisions, its just a matter of whether people in buy or are sold on the idea and people do. They brought Wanda as a 'villain' after all. So really it could go anyway for Wanda, (villain or hero) just like it can for every single character, no exceptions. I think creatively hero is better choice and you still have a number of fans of hers and so its probably the more profitable move as well. I can't dismiss a writer might have a cool story he could tell with her as a villain (but again that applies to all and any characters)

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#26 Posted by Chane (539 posts) - - Show Bio

Not one of my favourites... don't really have an opinion one way or another except that post disassembled / house of m she's too powerful to be a full time villian

#27 Posted by Moonleming (39 posts) - - Show Bio

 

Seriously I’m not sure how she could ever return to the good side.    Issues you may or may not have with how it was done: she triggered a near genocide of an entire race.    You cannot un-do that, killing individual heroes, okay,  but nearly wiping out an entire people.  Let me say that one more time for emphasis – she nearly caused the extinction of an entire race.   Could Hitler have come out of the bunker said I’m really sorry and all would be forgiven? No (and yes I went there I went Hitler) of course not.    Now if Marvel editorial wanted to go ahead and allow the M-day to be reversed, okay possibly. However that’s like letting a  dangerous but medicated schizophrenic  baby-sit your kids.  How could anyone ever trust someone like her again, the remainder of her existence should realistically be a drug induced catatonia.   We’re not talking about a mutant with pointy claws and anger issues, nor are we talking about one who can shoots lasers from his eyes – heck we’re not even talking about one who could crush a skyscraper with the force of magnetism.  We’re talking about a threat that can alter the fabric of reality, next time you want to see her in a position of trust consider that.    And people say Superman is too powerful to be written about.   You could make an argument for “keep your friends close and your enemies closer”, but okay you have a shield and acrobatic skills while the sun is about to go supernova – best of luck.   This women is a significant force of nature that no one was able to stop before.    She is a flood that cannot be contained, she is the fault line under the nitro glycerin factory – she’s like the weather everyone complains about it but nobody ever does anything.   Because just like weather there isn’t anything to be done, but bring an umbrella, unless she removes umbrella’s from existence.

#28 Posted by doordoor123 (3721 posts) - - Show Bio

I say let her be neither. Just make her be a witch with good intentions. She doesnt need to be a token "hero" or "villain"

#29 Posted by Golden Cod (378 posts) - - Show Bio

She'll end up playing both sides like her brother and father.

#30 Posted by Evpraksiya (260 posts) - - Show Bio

When i wasn't so aware about marvel stuff, i was thinking she was bad cause of her outfit and predisposition to magical stuff. Now i know she's switching, but her outfit still bother. 

#31 Posted by DEGRAAF (7811 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly i wouldnt mind her going to one side or the other but i would like to see her go through with the wedding to Von Doom. I think they would make an interesting couple specially if one was bad and one was good but their feelings over came that hurdle
#32 Posted by fbdarkangel (4884 posts) - - Show Bio

good girl that went CRAZY!

#33 Posted by Dh4niel (348 posts) - - Show Bio

I really don't see her coming back as an member of the Avengers. How can she atone for the whole M-Day thing? That said, it wasn't entirely her fault she went completely mental. Or was it? I can't remember the whole story...

#34 Posted by SC (11960 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dh4niel said:
That said, it wasn't entirely her fault she went completely mental. Or was it? I can't remember the whole story...

They (Marvel, writers) have not clarified how much personal responsibility Wanda bears for her actions. In fact it is somewhat of a plot point, as in for now, its meant to be somewhat ambiguous, and relative. Many characters have expressed that she is very much responsible, others not so much. Others have suggested outside interference and influences. Others that its the Avengers fault for not looking after her and being aware of certain signs. Parallels to Sentry and his incident. So you could say that the story is still a work in progress. 



I do know (this is a general point, not intended to anyone in particular) that Jean Grey killed billions more sentient people when she went Dark Phoenix, and she of course was welcomes back as a hero, because her actions were made justifiable (wasn't really her fault, and etc etc) and there was stuff with retcons that in essence... it was complicated but main point is character killed, character came back and was treated as hero by characters and fans. So I am not sure I understand those who think its impossible for Wanda to be redeemed. Question it? Sure, that makes sense. 
Moderator
#35 Posted by hitechlolife (194 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd rather see her as a villain, at least for a while. When we have a real Avengers team going, then she can come back into the fold. I don't trust Bendis with Wanda, I think he'd be lazy with her.

#36 Posted by The Devil Tiger (1263 posts) - - Show Bio

Villain.

 

Even if she's redeem herself, she has an insanity problem. When you have an insane cop and you know it, you retire him. Normally, it would be the same.

#37 Posted by Deranged Midget (17598 posts) - - Show Bio

I preferred it when she was out of the picture.

Moderator
#38 Posted by umbrafeline (5300 posts) - - Show Bio

have her join the masters of evil
#39 Posted by thiagofonseca (39 posts) - - Show Bio

She should be dead.

A dead hero.

But dead.

#40 Edited by WhitOro (69 posts) - - Show Bio
@raven575 said:

She is way too powerful...wolverine should end her, then off himself.


I agree, she's practically a walking deus ex machina, every conflict within the Marvel Universe could be solved with a blink of her eyes.

She should die as a redeemed hero.

#41 Posted by Doctor!!!!! (2055 posts) - - Show Bio

How about both? I don't like choosing alignments.

#42 Posted by Trodorne (2569 posts) - - Show Bio

VILLAIN! have her get married to Dr.Doom as intended.

 but knowing how Marvel plays things out. she will become neutral and have feelings for both Simon and Victor. (Wonder-man and Dr.Doom) she obviously wants to be with her kids and i can imagine that is the first and foremost thing to her.

 but this goes back to what i noted during shadowland. Should Daredevil be a villain? YES! yes he should be. when the hero goes bad of his own accord you get a great story. instead, any chance of that happening from Daredevil or maybe wanda is being thrown out cause of marvels clearly over payed, chief creative officer.

#43 Posted by Sobe Cin (599 posts) - - Show Bio


I'd like to just wait and see the conclusion to The Children's Crusade. We're going to get a lot of answers when the conclusion of that story reveals itself.

 

As for my own speculation, I'd like her to reverse the x-gene, that way the "Five Lights" can go away and just be normal mutants. And for pete's sake, call the book Generation X - Generation Hope is getting to sound more and more as if it's full of itself.

 

 

Repower Blob..............................

#44 Posted by JonesDeini (3616 posts) - - Show Bio
@chalkshark:
I say the first thing they need to do is fix M Day, that one little story has had terrible effects on the quality of X-men stories since. I don't even care if she's involved in the story or how deus ex machina and contrived the solution may be. I and feel most fans thought the whole point of Hope was to restore the species, well high fiving one mutant at a time ain't gettin' it done. Hell do it this way. Have Legion (who can apparently reverse her previously irreversible powers) go balls to the wall and "repower everybody" if Ginger's not up the job I can think of at least two others who could pull it off. Or if you must give Wanda a redeeming, we forgive you now moment (as Marvel is want to do whenever any one does anything...because personal responsibility is totally unnecessary for character growth) then have her repair the damage she's caused at the cost of her life. 

 @ltbrd
Thank you, she's like a broken God Tier character in a fighter. They've written themselves into a corner with her. The only option left is to bash her head into that corner until it's unrecognizable mass of gore and her twitching stops. Thank you Bendis for ruining yet ANOTHER character I once enjoyed....sigh. 
#45 Posted by pixelized (62881 posts) - - Show Bio

Instead of worrying about an alignment, I'd like her to a fixture in Pixie's life in the form of a Magical Guidance Teacher. We left New X-Men with Amanda Sefton and Dr. Strange saying that'd assist her in new affinity for Magic after Illyana first started stealing pieces of her soul. Strange and Seft have yet to live up to that so Pix sought help elsewhere. Wanda can just assume the role that Agatha Harkness held in her life.

Moderator
#46 Edited by JonesDeini (3616 posts) - - Show Bio
@WhitOro
LMAO she's an adult Franklin' Richards...My question is why does the Living Tribunal/One Above All allow these beings to exist?

@Moonleming
It's been confirmed that Hope's an Omega Level mutant who has access to all mutant abilities, therefore she can access Wanda's. Why has she not been used for her purpose? If you goin' write a messiah, and kill off a beloved character in their name, then they damned well better do something Messianic!!! I'm to the point where I want to see Franklin/Legion/Conveniently created new character just think Wanda from existence and undo M Day. Short term solution they should zap her with the Gun Reed used on Franklin and keep her ass so doped up she won't know she exists. 
#47 Posted by davelecave (1113 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm so sick of people saying Bendis ruined Scarlet Witch.  House of M was incredible.  Scarlet Witch is an amazingly complex and disturbed character that has deeply affected the Marvel Universe, and I think it's awesome. 

#48 Posted by doomsilver (643 posts) - - Show Bio
@JonesDeini said:
Wanda's a good woman at heart. Unfortunately a bad writer made her do bad things, because you know...one of his favorite things to do is make characters go crazy and do bad things. Anyways, bring her back and have her fix M Day asap or dammit, Have some omega level do it. I don't care how deus ex machina it is. Some evils are necessary, Bendis' bad decision has been coloring my X books for faaaar too long. 

good idea
#49 Posted by PhoenixoftheTides (3274 posts) - - Show Bio
Wanda has always been a strange character. Like most of the earlier superheroines, she was given powers that were initially weak but useful enough to make her a worthy member of her team. She was often used as a minor deus ex machina to allow the Avengers to really be threatened but emerge victorious over all the odds. Unlike Susan, Jean and Janet, it seems to me that Wanda never really developed a personality of any sort, and some of her issues as a character deals with the fact that she really does seem to have the kernels of insanity in her mind. Falling in love and marrying an android was treated in such a way that it was actually creepy. I'm not sure how many people remember "The Vision and Scarlet Witch" mini-series, but there was something off-putting about their relationship and I think no one really wanted to think about how their more intimate moments would play out.

In order to become a hero again, she needs to restore the powers of all the de-powered mutants, and actually be on her own for a while with a mini-series focusing on her coming to terms with what she did and develop some expectations for her character before she is put back in a team setting. It may truly be time for her to step up, seek out Dr. Strange and Brother Voodoo or even Klea and start learning if mystical training can help her master her powers or if the mathematical focus the Ultimates version used would be the way to go. I'm leaning towards the latter. She really needs a bridge to sanity in order for her powers to be brought under her control, IMHO, and magic is not the way to go about it for her. Perhaps this series can be about her literally travelling the globe and restoring the powers to mutants who want their powers restored? I'd love to see this character written by Grant Morrison, Chris Claremont, Brian Michael Bendis or Neil Gaiman tackle. 
#50 Posted by Billy Batson (56933 posts) - - Show Bio

both! :p

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