What the Hell Apple? Saga #12 Banned!

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#1 Edited by judasnixon (5451 posts) - - Show Bio

Apple Bans Saga #12 from their app store for having a gay sex scene.........

#3 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (5554 posts) - - Show Bio

What the hell?! Do you have a link to an article or anything?

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#4 Edited by Jorgevy (5114 posts) - - Show Bio

not what I heard. in twitter I saw Rucka complaining and Mark Waid said it was because page 2 or something was in obvious violation of the ToS, not necessarily because it was a gay scene

#5 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (5554 posts) - - Show Bio
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#6 Edited by End_Boss (725 posts) - - Show Bio

@v_scarlotte_rose said:

Never mind, I found an article.

Apparently it's just because it's a bit explicit, rather than being a gay problem.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/04/09/apple-bans-saga-on-ipad-and-iphones/

What she said. I hate that folks are latching onto this immediately as some kind of equality issue. It has nothing to do with the orientation of the people portrayed. It's that you can see a big ol' cock on the page. It would be the same if it was an explicit heterosexual scene, too. America fears sex just about as much as it loves it. Apple is just covering their ass with regards to their conservative fanbase.

@judasnixon: There is nothing explicit on that page. Shirtless men are seen the world over at even the most tame of beaches. Now, if she was palming his Johnson, that would be a different thing entirely.

#7 Posted by Charlemagne (6970 posts) - - Show Bio

hahha "what the hell apple" greatest line ever. I'm stealing that.

#8 Edited by judasnixon (5451 posts) - - Show Bio

The news comes from an announcement made by Brian K. Vaughn, the writer of the comic:

Unfortunately, because of two postage stamp-sized images of gay sex, Apple is banning tomorrow’s Saga #12 from being sold through any iOS apps. This is a drag, especially because our book has featured what I would consider much more graphic imagery in the past, but there you go. [Fiona Staples, Saga's artist] and I could always edit the images in question, but everything we put into the book is there to advance our story, not (just) to shock or titillate, so we’re not changing s**t.

#9 Edited by akbogert (3150 posts) - - Show Bio

BKV addressed this on tumblr. Basically, it's stupid, and he thinks they've had more "offensive" stuff in prior issues, but they can't do anything about it and refuse to actually change the panels (understandably). And Comixology says you will still be able to buy it on their website and then sync it from within the app (much as you have to do with the new Injustice for some reason). Though sadly it's not currently available -- IDK how long it takes for that particular book's new issues to make it to the store.

#10 Edited by End_Boss (725 posts) - - Show Bio

@judasnixon: Brian K. Vaughn is unfairly riding the wave of controversy in that post. It's not because there are "postage stamp-sized images of gay sex," it's that there's postage stamp-sized images of genitalia. Frankly, I think he's doing his own title a disservice by not being calm and eloquent about it. Let your book's story bring in the readers, rather than the headlines it grabs.

EDIT: Let me just state that despite my not believing this is a gay rights issue, I do think it a silly one. From both sides of the fence, really. Apple (and by extension, America at large) needn't be so timid with regards to sex, but the writer and artist didn't really need that in there to make their point. He says it's "for the sake of the story," but I can think of a million ways to convey that these two characters had sex without having your artist doodle a dong. In his words, I do believe the images were there solely to "shock and titillate."

#11 Posted by judasnixon (5451 posts) - - Show Bio

@end_boss: Was never a problem before......

#12 Posted by inferiorego (20589 posts) - - Show Bio

I've read the issue. It's offensive, but Apple has let full penetration go before in the issue.

Apple is being selective.

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#13 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (5554 posts) - - Show Bio

@judasnixon: If that picture was in it before, I'm confused as to what the problem is this time.

Maybe it's because the genitalia is 'in action'?

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#14 Posted by End_Boss (725 posts) - - Show Bio

@judasnixon: And the difference there is that there is no sexual context and besides, the genitalia is grossly (almost comically) over-sized and out of proportion. As I said, I'm not saying it isn't silly, but I am saying that it doesn't have much to do with gay rights.

#16 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (5554 posts) - - Show Bio

@judasnixon: If posting this sort of thing allowed on here?

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#17 Edited by End_Boss (725 posts) - - Show Bio

@v_scarlotte_rose:

It's a fairly popular comic book. I would think it silly if there was a problem.

@judasnixon:

Those images, ironically, are the size of a postage stamp. Can't see it, cap'n.

#18 Posted by mk111 (3136 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm glad I don't read this series, then.

#19 Edited by V_Scarlotte_Rose (5554 posts) - - Show Bio

@end_boss: I just meant the pictures. I hear it is pretty popular, as I've seen it mentioned a few times.

The link I posted has the images in a much bigger size.

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#20 Posted by judasnixon (5451 posts) - - Show Bio

@end_boss: Those were the only scans I could find.... Deleted them anyways.

#21 Posted by End_Boss (725 posts) - - Show Bio

@v_scarlotte_rose: HAH. Oh, man. After looking at the actual scans, it is blatantly obvious that the images did not serve the plot, but were meant specifically to shock and titillate. For those who don't know, the first image shows a young man performing oral sex on another, except there is no loving embrace or softness to it. It literally looks like a screen cap from porn. There is a dick, there is a face and there is a hand.

The next image features the same face, more dicks and added semen.

Way to lose my respect, Saga.

And again, I sincerely doubt that if that young man had been a young woman instead that Apple's reaction would've been any different.

#22 Edited by End_Boss (725 posts) - - Show Bio

@mk111: It is not at all what you think. Do yourself the kindness of reading the rest of the thread before making a snap judgement.

#23 Posted by mk111 (3136 posts) - - Show Bio

@end_boss:

Oh no, I didn't mean that the series looked bad, I just meant I was glad because if I was a fan of this series, I'd be upset at Apple.

#24 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (5554 posts) - - Show Bio

@end_boss: I didn't think they looked like an important plot point, but as I'm not a Saga reader, I couldn't be too sure.

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#25 Edited by End_Boss (725 posts) - - Show Bio

@mk111: That's what I'm getting at. There's no legitimate reason to upset at Apple, as a corporation, for doing this.

#26 Posted by danhimself (21904 posts) - - Show Bio

I could care less about Apple doing this...I buy the actual issue and even if I were buying it digitally it wouldn't be from Apple anyway....it just sucks for them because Saga is seriously the best book being published right now and they're missing out on those sales

#27 Posted by akbogert (3150 posts) - - Show Bio

I do find this whole ordeal sad, because a platform as big as Apple's really should find a way of making a more diverse spectrum of content available. On the other side of things, I find it amusing to see this happen because I've told people in the past that the book is a bit too explicit for my tastes...this thread sort of underscores the sort of thing I mean.

#28 Posted by judasnixon (5451 posts) - - Show Bio

@inferiorego: I'm not going to lie... I thought it was a pretty funny joke. If Apple has issues with stuff like that, they should stop selling Game of Thrones....... I wonder if they banned it just because it was in a comic format?

#29 Posted by ragdollpurps (15570 posts) - - Show Bio

Sam Humphries posted an addendum to what BKV had posted on tumblr, asking readers to buy Saga, or any other comics, from comixology, since it wont be available on the Apple app. That way more of your money goes to the creators rather than to Apple.

#30 Posted by danhimself (21904 posts) - - Show Bio

If you aren't reading the book then you have no business saying whether something is distasteful or not...you can't judge an entire book on one panel or by reading reviews. .you have to read the entirety of something before you can judge it

Most people reading the book could care less about the nudity, swearing or if there's a sex scene or not...we're in it for the amazing story and character development

#31 Posted by ragdollpurps (15570 posts) - - Show Bio

@end_boss said:

@v_scarlotte_rose: HAH. Oh, man. After looking at the actual scans, it is blatantly obvious that the images did not serve the plot, but were meant specifically to shock and titillate. For those who don't know, the first image shows a young man performing oral sex on another, except there is no loving embrace or softness to it. It literally looks like a screen cap from porn. There is a dick, there is a face and there is a hand.

The next image features the same face, more dicks and added semen.

Way to lose my respect, Saga.

And again, I sincerely doubt that if that young man had been a young woman instead that Apple's reaction would've been any different.

From your description (the panels were deleted before I came to the thread) it seems like you're talking about the scene where one of the main characters (a morally ambiguous, ruthless bounty hunter) arrives on a planet that is entirely a red light district. In context (spoilers ahead), the character walks through the place and is surrounded by all sorts of sordid raunchiness, fast forward he ends up saving a young girl from being a sex slave there on the planet, aptly named Sextillion. So the graphicness of the panels does serve the plot by showing what a horrid place it is and that not even a monster who kills people for a living would let a girl spend her captive life there. You're meant to be shocked by those panels.

#32 Posted by judasnixon (5451 posts) - - Show Bio

Sam Humphries posted an addendum to what BKV had posted on tumblr, asking readers to buy Saga, or any other comics, from comixology, since it wont be available on the Apple app. That way more of your money goes to the creators rather than to Apple.

That is awesome. I love Sam Humphries........ Fact censoring art is wrong. That is a Fact.

#33 Edited by Xanni15 (6758 posts) - - Show Bio

ROFL

#34 Edited by fodigg (6094 posts) - - Show Bio

@judasnixon said:

The news comes from an announcement made by Brian K. Vaughn, the writer of the comic:

Unfortunately, because of two postage stamp-sized images of gay sex, Apple is banning tomorrow’s Saga #12 from being sold through any iOS apps. This is a drag, especially because our book has featured what I would consider much more graphic imagery in the past, but there you go. [Fiona Staples, Saga's artist] and I could always edit the images in question, but everything we put into the book is there to advance our story, not (just) to shock or titillate, so we’re not changing s**t.

Cheers to that.

#35 Posted by End_Boss (725 posts) - - Show Bio
#36 Posted by ragdollpurps (15570 posts) - - Show Bio

@end_boss: Well whether that was the scene or not, my point remains, the graphicness in Saga doesn't appear without warrant. It's depicted for a reason, which is to illustrate the diverse extremes in the universe that the characters exist in. Sometimes there are situation that call for images that 'shock and titillate', such things exist in real life, there really should be no qualms about it appearing in a story when the purpose of it is to add realism to the characters and a sense of atmosphere to their environment. If that's not your cup of tea then stick to the commercialized superhero comics from the Big Two, but like danhimself said, if you haven't read the story then you're really in no place to judge whether it's distasteful from a few out-of-context panels.

If you aren't reading the book then you have no business saying whether something is distasteful or not...you can't judge an entire book on one panel or by reading reviews. .you have to read the entirety of something before you can judge it

Most people reading the book could care less about the nudity, swearing or if there's a sex scene or not...we're in it for the amazing story and character development

#37 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (5554 posts) - - Show Bio
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#38 Posted by ragdollpurps (15570 posts) - - Show Bio

@v_scarlotte_rose: No, not the preview pages, thanks. Okay, so he's seeing gay porn in his head. Why? Because he's just been hit and is extremely disoriented, so disoriented that he sees gay porn (For what reason, who knows? Go figure.). There is a panel in a previous issue where during sex his face flashes to some kind of bloody scene. Seems to me as though he's got a bit of mental situation that he needs to sort out and these random extreme images that appear in his face at times when he's most vulnerable are used illustrate that plot point.

#39 Posted by End_Boss (725 posts) - - Show Bio

@ragdollpurps: But there was no purpose in this case. I've seen the panels, and the images are completely out of context and unnecessary to the scene. I invite you to look at the pages yourself (which, it seems, you have not) and make your own educated judgement call. And no, sorry, @danhimself is wrong. You do not need to be actively reading a series to know that it has done something that is both unnecessary and in poor taste. That's like saying if I saw a television show in which a person is brutally raped and tortured onscreen in drawn-out, lingering and glorified fashion that I have no right to express my distaste if I haven't seen that show since the pilot. Complete nonsense.

Look, I get that you like Saga, and that's fine. I'm sure the story, outside of this incident, is great. I've seen lots of buzz about it on the internet and some of my close friends really like it. But just because you like a book doesn't mean you need to defend its every action, especially when that action is senseless. It doesn't make you "loyal," only willfully ignorant.

#40 Edited by ragdollpurps (15570 posts) - - Show Bio

@end_boss: Okay, I get what you're saying. I just looked at the images, and as I said in my previous post to v_scarlotte_rose, it seems that the random extreme images that appear in his face are not just unnecessarily placed there, though one would have to have read the story to have picked that up. To someone who hasn't read it, yeah the images seem like they're there to shock, but it's not the first time something that could be considered distasteful appeared on his face. I feel like they are utilized to hint at something underlying going on with the character, whom in the story hasn't had much of a chance yet for development so hopefully we will learn why he is seeing the things he sees.

#41 Edited by ccraft (3962 posts) - - Show Bio

Nastiest thing I ever seen in a comic :l

Don't mistake me as someone who thinks being gay is wrong for thinking that was nasty as hell.

#42 Posted by End_Boss (725 posts) - - Show Bio

@ragdollpurps: Yeah, I get now that it's largely a product of the character's psyche, but I still feel that any number of other things could have illustrated the point just as well or better. When Vaughn says it wasn't done for shock value, I don't believe him.

#43 Posted by ragdollpurps (15570 posts) - - Show Bio

@end_boss: Yeah, there probably could have been something better to depict, though I do find it a bit funny as kind of a middle finger to homophobes, but that's just my strange sense of humor. In BKV's post he actually says 'not just to shock and titillate' (he places the 'just' in parenthesis), so maybe he actually is admitting to wanting to shock his readers a bit? I'm just glad that the shock is part of the narrative and not there solely for the sake of it.

#44 Edited by End_Boss (725 posts) - - Show Bio

@ragdollpurps: Yeah. I just think it's unfortunate that that story will likely be overshadowed for some time now by this senseless controversy.

#45 Posted by akbogert (3150 posts) - - Show Bio

@end_boss: Will it be? I feel like anyone already reading Saga will continue to do so and the people who aren't probably wouldn't have anyway...

#46 Edited by V_Scarlotte_Rose (5554 posts) - - Show Bio

@akbogert said:

@end_boss: Will it be? I feel like anyone already reading Saga will continue to do so and the people who aren't probably wouldn't have anyway...

Could be true. I don't read it, and still won't be. I'm totally unaffected by this story.

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#47 Edited by akbogert (3150 posts) - - Show Bio

@v_scarlotte_rose: Indeed. If anything, this puts a little credence behind my prior argument to someone about why I didn't want to read Saga (I'd read the first issue, and found it, as I said, a bit too much for my tastes). Those preview pages alone are like a poster child for many things I don't want in the comics I read.

But plenty of other people are totally fine with it, and that's definitely their prerogative. If anything this may actually temporarily help sales by drawing in people who buy it just in solidarity to "stick it" to Apple.

#48 Posted by judasnixon (5451 posts) - - Show Bio

Brian K. Vaughan is a very smart man...... Those two little post stamps were a warning label to the comic community. Anything will happen in this book deal with it! Brian K. Vaughan is try push the boundaries with comics, and he does not give a $#!%.......

#49 Edited by V_Scarlotte_Rose (5554 posts) - - Show Bio
@akbogert said:

@v_scarlotte_rose: Indeed. If anything, this puts a little credence behind my prior argument to someone about why I didn't want to read Saga (I'd read the first issue, and found it, as I said, a bit too much for my tastes). Those preview pages alone are like a poster child for many things I don't want in the comics I read.

But plenty of other people are totally fine with it, and that's definitely their prerogative. If anything this may actually temporarily help sales by drawing in people who buy it just in solidarity to "stick it" to Apple.

Do you mean my decision to not read it backs up your decision not to read it?

I don't think I understand what you mean.

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#50 Posted by akbogert (3150 posts) - - Show Bio

@v_scarlotte_rose: Ah, antecedent confusion, sorry. "Indeed" was technically the only thing I said which directly applied to you, haha. I was simply continuing with the train of thought that my earlier assertion -- those who were not reading would continue to not read. When I say "this" puts a little credence... I mean the whole ordeal with Apple, not the fact that you don't read it :P

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