My Thoughts on Rose Wilson in the New 52

#1 Edited by Ravager4 (1688 posts) - - Show Bio

Warning: Possible Spoilers.

Rose has been my favorite comic book character for a while now, and when I first heard that she would be featured prominently in Superboy right when the New 52 launched, I was thrilled. There were a lot of other characters with a much larger fanbase that were left out of the relaunch (Donna Troy, Wally West, Cassandra Cain, to name a few). So, just knowing that she would be returning at the very start was enough to get me in a good mood.


Once the relaunch finally arrived and I had a chance to read this new Rose Wilson (who was no longer going by the name Ravager, and whose ties to Deathstroke still as her father are yet uncertain), I was mixed. While still just happy to have her back in the reboot, a lot has changed with Rose so far. As already mentioned, it's a mystery so far whether or not she's still Deathstroke's daughter (They seem to enjoy dancing around this question in interviews).

For me, her past experiences with her controlling, manipulative father, was a large part of what made Rose such a great character pre-reboot. Having been forced to do bad things under his control, wanting to get away from him and instead do good with her life, not wanting to be a cold blooded killer like him, and trying to prove to those around her that she was a better person than her father, all went into making her deep character.

The possibility remains that Deathstroke is still her father in the New 52, though it's doubtful that, if he is, they've yet to meet or have those kinds of interactions, with the relationship not being mentioned in either the Deathstroke series, or the Superboy series, which could leave a void in her rebooted character, in my opinion.

UPDATE: As I have just discovered, it has been confirmed that Rose is indeed still Deathstroke's daughter. According to Lobdell, when asked about it: "I think that'll happen on a one way street that isn't heading towards Superboy. I would say that anybody that's looking for an interaction between Slade and his daughter are not going to be disappointed." This is definitely good news in my book, now it just remains to be seen what direction they go with it. Will they be meeting for the first time, or have they encountered each other before? And will Deathstroke try and train/mentor/enhance her like he did before? Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

APRIL UPDATE: In Superboy #8, we see that Rose is struck by an energy blast from someone known as 'Leash', which is designed to bring out the worst in people. She is then hit by a countering blast by Solstice, which neutralizes the effect it had on her (that being an apparent berserker rage). We then find out that Solstice was with Harvest when he first discovered Rose and took her into N.O.W.H.E.R.E. and that she used to be "much worse" than she is now (Solstice called her "A killer among killers"). Harvest then changed her to make her more controllable, which apparently resulted in the loss of some of her memory. This leads to the interesting question of just what happened in Rose's past that made her into such a killer? Did it involve experiences with her father, Deathstroke? Have they already met, or was it something entirely different? Solstice also mentions that Rose can't give into her old self "No matter who you've lost." So, another question, who has Rose lost in her past? Is Solstice speaking of Lillian Worth, Rose's mother? Or is it someone else? Either way, I'm very looking forward into seeing Rose's new past explained in the future.

MAY UPDATE: Okay, so Legion Lost #9 shows the return of Fairchild, trying to come back and save the kids and reason with Rose. Unfortunately, it looks like Rose now holds ill feelings to her former close friend, going so far as to fight each her with every intent at killing her. In Rose's mind, Caitlin betrayed and lied to her, leaving her to believe that their friendship was a farce. Nothing Caitlin says or does can get her to change Rose's mind, as the two now appear to be enemies. This is... very unfortunate. I mean, I really liked the bond that they had at the beginning of the series, and how Rose was starting to grow into something more than a hired killer. But now, Rose says she has no more better nature... so it looks like it's all been thrown out the window? Seems like a step backwards... However, I do still hold on to a small glimmer of hope that there are larger forces at work here causing Rose to react this way. We see Ridge, after taking a vicious blow to the skull (or hearing Caitlin's 'speech'... has to be a combination of the two), waking up and remembering his time in the Culling, which he hated, obviously. That being said, and with the already suggested memory loss that Rose has, and how Harvest changed her to be more controllable, perhaps Harvest takes his Ravagers and sort of mind wipes them into believing that what he's doing is the right thing to do, causing them to become blindly loyal to him. If that is the case, then I hope, I hope, I hope, that somewhere down The Ravagers series that Rose will come to her senses and step out of the villain role she's been thrust into. Their incredibly suggestive dialogue aside, I really do want to see Rose and Caitlin as friends again, their relationship was building into something nice.

MAY UPDATE #2: I know that Rose is a villain here, in The Ravagers #1, which I still find pretty unfortunate (I personally don't like when she's a villain), but the hope that she might eventually come around and change sides keeps me rooting for her to overcome what Harvest did to her. I didn't like seeing her just heartlessly murder a bunch of the escaped kids in cold blood, mostly because her biggest thing Pre-52 was trying her hardest to NOT do just that. But again, I have high hopes that she'll begin to change again as she did before the reboot, so only time will tell.

JUNE UPDATE: She appears only briefly in Ravagers #2, but the single panel that we get a good look at her in tells a lot. In this panel, it's heavily implied that Rose still cares for and is worried about Caitlin, after realizing that N.O.W.H.E.R.E. is still after her. The expression she's making is one of worry and disappointment, and the way she says her line, with the "--" before the question mark indicating a surprised stutter in her question, and then the ellipsis beginning her next sentence indicating a pause of concern. It could be that a deeper part of Rose, the part of her that was friends with Caitlin before, is starting to surface through her cold, killer demeanor again.

DECEMBER UPDATE: There is a huge moment on the final page that is connected with Rose's past, it seems. Once the fight between Rose/Warblade and the Ravagers is completed, Deathstroke is seen reviewing the footage of the fight. He has both a history with Rose, obviously, as her father, and with Caitlin, as he worked with her father on Team 7. WIth next month's issue focusing on Rose and Warblade, I'm looking forward to seeing some development with them and how this particular nugget will play out in the future.

JANUARY UPDATE: Not much is revealed in issue #8 about Rose (although the writing is a million times better with the new writer), though we do get glimpses that maybe she isn't completely far gone. While trying to solve a problem in a remote town with one of N.O.W.H.E.R.E.'S escaped subjects lethally infecting a whole town, Rose goes out of her way to do so without killing them, and even save people from a burning fire. Her excuse is that she doesn't want to face Harvest's wrath for creating an incident, but there may be something more there, especially since her partner, Warblade, would simply rather kill everyone.

FEBRUARY UPDATE: After Caitlin's team arrives (first to stop them, but then to help them help the town after some arguing), Rose opens up about her feelings towards Caitlin. She feels hurt that Caitlin betrayed her, and blames that for the end of their friendship, while Caitlin blames Rose's loyalty to Harvest. Rose also reveals to Warblade that Caitlin is someone she would have died for, back when they were friends. Also worth noting is Rose's claim that she and Warblade are "dead" if Harvest ever finds out what happened at the town, while Harvest is watching them from afar. I think it's pretty obvious that this is what leads them to no longer working for Harvest, and hopefully Rose will eventually make up with Caitlin as the three remaining issues of The Ravagers continues. Also, I'm really hoping that we learn more about Rose and Caitlin's past relationship. It's been teased with a crap ton of subtext that they might have been more than just friends, but they just don't seem to want to clarify it.

MARCH UPDATE: Well, the whole N.O.W.H.E.R.E. thing finally seems to be coming to a head for Rose. In the latest issue, Harvest turns on both her and Warblade by sending troopers and butcher bots to kill them. They manage to survive, though Rose comes to the conclusion that the only way to continue surviving is to get back into Harvest's good graces by capturing Caitlin at the others for him. However, Harvest has already hired Deathstroke to eliminate Caitlin's team, meaning he doesn't want them alive anymore. Not only does this mean that Rose and Warblade no longer have an out to gain favor with Harvest again, but with Deathstroke already having attacked Caitlin's team at the end of this issue, I'm going to make the guess that Rose and Warblade will actually end up saving them, and, when realizing that Harvest wants them all dead, will have to form an alliance with them to survive. Also, finally Rose and her father are going to meet on screen and we're going to be learning her backstory in the final two issues. Here's hoping the next two months work wonders for her development, since she's finally starting to get some. I am so ready for Rose to stop being a villainous lackey.

APRIL UPDATE: Okay... where the hell do I even start here? Well, okay, a lot was revealed this month in Rose's two appearances... however, most of it wasn't exactly great. I mean, interesting sure, but true to her character? Not really. One, Rose is Slade's daughter, and she apparently hates him, as he was never a father to her, so there's that. That's par for the course. Also, the reason that Deathstroke took the contract with Harvest was indeed to get his daughter back, so there's that, too. He is apparently trying to make up for being such a shitty father, if his interactions in Deathstroke #19 are anything to go by. Now, here's where it gets rather facepalm inducing.

SO... Rose, for one, is no longer a person of color. Yup, after years of artists whitewashing the hell out of her, her mother is no longer the Cambodian princess, Lillian Worth. Nope, DC just kicked her to the curb and made Adeline her mother instead, which also makes her a full sister to Grant and Joseph, instead of a half-sister. I just can't even... why, why oh why, with all their attempts to increase diversity, would they remove her Asian heritage? This completely and baffles me. I mean, I guess it could be seen as just a simplification thing, trying not to make her and Deathstroke's past as complicated with him cheating on Adeline and having Rose with someone else, but come ON. I'm not even sure how this makes sense, since it's clear that Rose grew up with her brothers, and yet she's not present in ANY of the other instances where we see Slade's past, even with his family. Like, what? Ugh, so Rose has been completely and fully whitewashed now. Whatever. *sigh* At the very least, Rose is overjoyed to see her mother again... so seeing her actualy happy for a change is nice. Even if that lasts all of a couple pages before Jericho goes psycho and tries to kill them by controlling everyone. Yeah, Joey's a psychotic villain again, so thanks for that, Liefeld.

Anyway, moving on, Rose apparently had more of a past with Niles Caulder and his operations than would have been thought. DUring the whole Deathstroke debacle at the Ravagers' hideout, she leads Caitlin into the inner laboratory that no one else knew about and reveals that there are a bunch of Caitlin clones there. Somehow, she already knew about this, though it has yet to be revealed how. Next issue, obviously. She also reveals that she knows Caitlin is not the original (as seen in Team 7 #6, the original Caitlin was killed by Slade when she turned into a robot-hybrid, went on a rampage, and killed her father). So, how does all this tie together? I guess we'll just have to wait and see. But right now, I'm just... very mixed on all of this. I need to go digest my thoughts.

On the plus side, in the latest issues since the new writer came on board in The Ravagers, she has been portrayed as much more conflicted, with an underlying desire to do good, but while retaining her hard and cold exterior, while seemingly following Harvest more out of fear that he'll kill her if she doesn't play by his rules rather than being a loyal brainwashed servant. So that means her development is coming along, however slowly.

MAY UPDATE: Well.... so much for Rose and Caitlin making nice. As probably should have been expected, Rose withholding the fact that Caitlin was just one of many clones did not go over well. Rose rubbing it in probably didn't help either... although, I do believe that Rose was at first withholding it because she didn't want to hurt Caitlin (before the whole betrayal and friendship angst happened). But, so much for them ever being friends again. They do not leave on good terms before Deathstroke captures them all and the issue ends with Rose and Terra leaving with him. That's really not how I wanted things to go, considering how much they seemed to care for when this reboot began...

That's really all that happened in The Ravagers #12, as far as Rose is concerned. Her friendship with Caitlin is irreparably broken, and then she was allowed to go free by Harvest, as payment to Deathstroke for his job. A lot more happens in Deathstroke #20, however. So let's look into that, shall we?

Alright, where to start? Well, how about with the fact that, oh yeah, Rose witnessed her mother and both her brothers die in this issue (technically, it looks like Jericho survived, but she doesn't know that)? To make it even worse, it was her father that killed both Joseph and Grant, and not to mention Joey was being all "evil psycho" and trying to kill them. It's as if they wanted to pile on as much angst as possible in a single issue... god forbid a character in DC ever has a tiny bit of happiness. So... yeah. To be honest, I didn't feel much for their deaths, I was never attached to them, but I'm not too thrilled with what it means for Rose.

And adding to the tally: her mother, her brothers, and any chance of reconciling with her father.

So in all, in one day, Rose lost: The only friend she ever had, her mother, not one but two brothers, and any hope of forgiving her father for being a shitty dad. But hey... at least she's free now and no longer a villainous lacky? Sigh.

Alright, now moving on to a single line that actually clears up a LOT about her timeline... if some inferences are taken, at least.

I'll go into more depth on what this line means for her abilities, but for right now I want to focus on what it means for her backstory. Because Slade calls her ability a "Gen-Power", we can immediately infer that Rose was a part of John Lynch's program at some point. This would make sense considering the fact that Lynch had knowledge of her and her abilities at all. Because of this, we can also infer that this is her connection to Niles Caulder and how she knew about the Caitlin clones. Because Lynch was in charge of Team 7, when the whole original Caitlin dying thing happened, it's possible that he ordered Niles to create the clones for some reason. So, when Rose was brought into the program (which also makes sense, considering Slade's former connection to Lynch and Team 7), she was made "Gen-Active" and her metagene activated, met Niles, learned about the clones, etc. Then, at some point later Rose was abducted by Harvest, forced to undergo the Culling, where she survived, was made one of his Ravagers, and put in charge of looking after Superboy.

So that one line gives us a timeline that looks something like this:

-Early years (who the hell knows here, we have no details and inconsistencies in both her own and Slade's backstories make it impossible to guess)

-Slade abandoned Rose and the rest of his family.

-Rose at some point entered into Lynch's program, where her metagene is activated.

-She meets Niles Caulder and learns about the Caitlin clones in his lab.

-Harvest abducts her along with other metahumans and forces them to undergo the Culling.

-Rose survives the Culling, is made a Ravager, and is forced to follow Harvest's orders.

-Rose meets and befriends Caitlin.

-The next Culling takes place, leading to Caitlin "betraying" Rose and their friendship falling through.

-After a couple failed attempts at re-capturing the escaped Ravagers, Harvest puts out a kill order on Rose and Warblade.

-Lynch sends Deathstroke to Harvest to complete the contract to capture the Ravagers, in return for freeing both Rose and Terra from N.O.W.H.E.R.E. control.

-The whole Majestic incident occurs. Rose loses her family and disappears shortly after. Current whereabouts unknown.

So... for as much as her backstory has thus far disappointed me, at the very least we can come up with a clear, logical timeline that makes sense, at least in regards to the past five years or so. Anything before that is a complete mystery.


Now, moving on to her design. First, her physical appearance:

Though still having the striking white hair, she looks a good deal different now. For one, she's missing her eye patch, as she hasn't lost her left eye in the DCnU. This is unfortunate, in my opinion, because I absolutely loved her eye patch (especially when it was white, which made it more unique and matched her hair. Though, half the time they seemed to color it black, and the other half it was white), as it was one of her most noticeable features. As Kid Flash once said, “Who knew an eye patch could be so sexy?”

Also, her jaw appears a bit wider and squarer than before. This isn't necessarily terrible, but it does makes her look a little... off, compared to what I know and remember. Of course, this could just be due to the actual artist drawing her currently. I'm very interested to see what a different artist can do for her once she heads on over to The Ravagers. For example, she looks phenomenal in these couple of images, with a much more well defined face, and excellent artwork all around:

As for her new outfit, it took a little bit for me to get used to it, but now that it's grown on me, I have to say that I really love it. The armor is sleek, looks nice, the colors go well together, and I think it fits her beautifully. It's also practical, and I'm glad they didn't try to needlessly sex up her outfit or anything in the reboot. That was the one thing that kind of nagged at me for Rose pre-reboot. Though she was always doing everything she could to distance herself from her father and prove to others that she wasn't like him, she still continued to dress like him. Perhaps that was just laziness of the writers/artists for not having her get a new costume, but it still kind of bugged me. Of course, don't get me wrong, I still loved that outfit, just that one aspect threw me off a little.

APRIL UPDATE: In Legion Lost #8, Rose wears a new outfit, which, while it struck me as a bit off when I first saw it, is growing on me the more I look at it. It's still nice and sleek, practical, and the colors go pretty well together. It's very 'super spy', which I enjoy.

MAY UPDATE: I had high hopes for what Rose would look like when given to a better artist, and oh my word did Churchhill deliver. Not just him, but the colorist as well. Rose looks absolutely gorgeous here, and is very detailed (as is the rest of the artwork in the book, it's excellent all around). They manage to make her look not just good, but fan-bleeping-tastic. She is the perfect mix of sexy (without having to dress her up as a stripper) and badass, which is how she should always be. I can say that this is easily her best look so far in the New 52, and perhaps even my favorite of all time. Her costume especially, it's sleek, practical, is armored in all the right places, the colors are perfect, and she even still has her trademark pirate boots, which go surprisingly well with the rest of the outfit. I give this look an A+++.

JANUARY UPDATE: Let's just all take a moment to appreciate the amazing pencils of Ig Guara (though really the inks and colors are amazing, too), who makes Rose absolutely stunning. I didn't think she could look any better, but I do like being proven wrong in this case.

MAY UPDATE: Rose continues to look fabulous in every way. Nothing new here.


Now, moving on to her fighting ability. We've seen her first fight in the New 52 in Superboy #7, allowing us to get a glimpse at some of her skills. However... it was a little disappointing, I have to be honest. Pre-reboot, Rose had the advantages of being enhanced like her father, as well as having a precog ability that allowed her to see attacks before they happened, making her a truly formidable combatant.

In the reboot, though, it appears as though her precog ability is gone. Before the reboot, sneaking up on Rose was a laughable concept, as seen below:

At the end of Superboy #7, on the other hand, not only does Wonder Girl, a person not very well known to be a stealth oriented fighter, sneak up on her just fine, but knocks her out in the process.

So, it's probably safe to say that she no longer possesses precog, either that or it this was an oversight on the writer to give an excuse to have Cassie knock out Rose. Either way, it made me shake my head in disappointment.

(also, on another note, is it just me or did they mess up continuity between Superboy #7 and Teen Titans #7? As you see at the end of Superboy, Rose is already out cold and dressed in a leather jacket, but in the next issue of Teen Titans, it shows her unconscious in a different position, and in her battle gear:

When Wonder Girl mentions her ambush of Rose, the note also says to see Superboy #8 for their battle. But... there was no battle, as she's clearly knocked unconscious in Superboy #7. Is this a typo/screw up? Or are they trying to say that Rose woke right up, they actually did fight, and was then knocked unconscious again, and that we'll be seeing it in a later issue? That just doesn't make sense to me. It also refers to Rose as Ravager, which she hasn't been going by in the DCnU... so I'm pretty sure they just screwed up.)

APRIL UPDATE: Now that Superboy #8 has come out, we can see that there is indeed no showing of any fight between Wonder Girl and Rose, meaning that this was indeed a continuity error, as well as a typo. Wonder Girl snuck up on Rose in Superboy #7 while she was getting ready to leave, and knocked her out that way. Rose did not then wake up, take her jacket off, draw her swords, and engage in a fair fight, as would be indicated by Teen Titans #7.

Anyway, focusing back on her actual fight with Superboy, though she did manage to win via careful planning and strategy, the overall fight itself was a bit underwhelming. For her first fight in the DCnU, it really didn't showcase her abilities as well as I would have hoped. Plus, at the start of the fight, Superboy pretty much just plows right through her to continue into the N.O.W.H.E.R.E facility, which was pretty anticlimactic, considering the way Superboy #6 had left off with Rose making her entry to face him.

Also, so far in the New 52, there hasn't been any real indication that her physical abilities are in any way enhanced beyond normal, as they were before the reboot (unless I missed something. There are a couple issues of Superboy I have yet to read). With no precog, and no enhancements, this leaves her as just an ordinary, well trained fighter, and those are a dime a dozen in DC. This leaves me to wonder if she's anywhere near the same caliber of fighter that she used to be before the reboot.

Now, it has been shown that she might have telepathy, when she mentally conversed with Caitlin in Superboy #3:

so perhaps something can be done with that to make up for her loss of skill in other areas. Maybe she can read her opponent's mind while fighting, and gain an advantage that way, by knowing their actions ahead of time, as a sort of substitute for her previous precog. Somehow, though, I don't think they'll go that direction.

APRIL UPDATE: Alright, so Rose makes a couple more of appearances so far this month in Superboy #8 and Legion Lost #8. Over in Superboy, we don't actually see anything specifically related to her combat ability, although she does end up bringing an unconscious Solstice to Harvest near the end of the chapter. Either this is a ruse between the two (couldn't imagine that would make for a good plan...) or Rose defeated Solstice off panel, meaning she at least has the skill to overcome someone of Solstice's abilities.

Moving on to Legion Lost, Rose is sent to combat Timber Wolf, going toe to toe with him, in what appears to be a relatively even fight. We see them both land a hit on each other, Rose kicking him across the face, and Wolf throwing her through a car window, though a lot of the fight took place off panel. Also, that one blow didn't seem to phase Rose much, as she instantly recovers to flip herself around and catch herself on the wall he throws her at after. I think just noting the fact that she fought him toe to toe before the fight was stopped by Psykill indicates that she may be a much greater level of fighter than would have been thought after Superboy #7. Timber Wolf is noted as having super strength, agility, reaction time, and enhanced senses. This means that Rose, even though she might lack more obvious powers like super strength, is capable of going against someone at that level and doing just fine.

That brings me into discussing her acrobatic abilities displayed so far, which we see a great deal of in this issue. Not only does she gain control of herself in mid throw to land on her feet against the wall after being thrown by Timber Wolf, but she also jumps down from a high building, flips through the air, lands on an awning (or whatever its called) below, and flips down again to attack Timber Wolf. Now, this is something that not even someone like Batman would attempt without the aid of gadgets, considering the sheer distance she plummeted, which indicates that she must have some kind of enhanced physical properties in order to not only survive that fall, but control herself throughout the entire drop and land on her feet in mid attack.

So, we have received a greater idea of what she's capable of, though it is still left a bit ambiguous. We know she's a highly skilled combatant, who possible has some form of telepathy, though apparently lacks her precog from before Flashpoint. She's also smart, studying up on potential targets through their dossiers and using that to increase her ability against them. We'll have to wait and see from future appearances, though, when hopefully the full extent of her abilities will be explained.

MAY UPDATE: So, in Superboy #9, Rose shows up briefly in the skirmish between the Ravagers and the Teen Titans/Legion Lost/others, exchanging a couple blows with Red Robin. She would have killed him, too, if he hadn't been saved by Kid Flash. Though all the Ravagers are defeated during this encounter, it's probably worth noting that they were outnumbered like 20 to 12, a prime factor in why they lost, so... yeah, I don't think Harvest really expected them to win, as he shows up himself at the end (and later clarifies in Legion Lost that he, indeed, already knew his Ravagers would lose). Plus, most of the fighting takes place off panel, considering the issue focuses on Superboy's fight with Warblade, leaving a lot of variables and unknown factors in just how each Ravager was defeated. It is also pretty much revealed that she did indeed take in Solstice at the end of Superboy #8, not as part of a ruse (as Red Robin mentions Solstice gave her a chance to redeem herself, an offer she apparently hasn't taken, at least not yet). So, even if it was off panel, I guess we can add that to her feat list.

Over in Legion Lost #9, there is more of a focus on Rose, as Caitlin returns and tries to reason with her. Unfortuantely, feeling betrayed and lied to, Rose doesn't listen and the two come to blows. Rose appears to outclass Fairchild in this fight, until being cheap shotted from behind by Ridge (again, apparently her precog is gone). Although, it is fair to mention that Caitlin probably wasn't putting her all into the fight, since she still considers Rose a friend, even if Rose, for the time being, has forsaken that friendship.

MAY UPDATE #2: We witness a little bit more of her capabilities in the first Ravagers issue, as she takes down Windshear with little difficulty. Caitlin also mentions that the team of she, Ridge, Thunder, and Lightning, can't "hope to stand against them" meaning that, collectively, Rose and Warblade are an extremely powerful and dangerous force to be reckoned with. She also takes a full force blast from Thunder's power with no ill effects, as she gets right back up perfectly fine. The resiliency that she's shown thus far has been pretty impressive.

DECEMBER UPDATE: In Ravagers #7, we're shown a bit more of her fighting ability. She displays a clear level of super strength when hitting Caitlin with a simple backhand, sending her clear across the graveyard where they're fighting. Also, in a possible future she is shown defeating and killing Superboy a second time, with her and Warblade winning the fight against the escaped Ravagers. Even though they do eventually lose the actual fight, considering that they held their own when so vastly outnumbered (and with Superboy as one of the opponents), it speaks volumes about her level of ability. It seems that she is much stronger than previously revealed.

JANUARY UPDATE: Confirmed in this issue, Rose is a metahuman. As to what extent her meta abilities are, that remains to be seen.

MARCH UPDATE: Though vastly, vastly outnumbered, Rose and Warblade are able to defend themselves against a swarm of N.O.W.H.E.R.E. troopers and butcher bots, which, judging from Rose's reaction to seeing the bots, are highly dangerous. Though it's unclear just how deadly they are, the fact that the two of them were able to overcome odds that great, and without suffering so much as a scratch in the process, speaks volumes about both their ability and puts Rose as an extremely high level of combatant.

APRIL UPDATE: We don't see a lot of her individual skill this month, since most of her fighting comes as part of a group, or is very brief, but she does once again show Caitlin isn't really a match for her, helps take down Animal-Vegetable-Mineral Man, and knocks out a Jericho-controlled Terra.

MAY UPDATE: WELL. Remember how Rose apparently no longer has her precog? Well... the ability that she reveals in Deathstroke #20 almost makes up for not having it anymore. As it turns out, Rose has a passive power dampening ability, which at least affects Invulnerability, and seems to affect Super Strength, as well (as Majestic took a while to break free from Terra's earth prison). It's also possible that it could affect other physical attributes. While It doesn't completely nullify such attributes, it does significantly weaken them as long as someone with such an ability is in her immediate proximity, so much so that she was able to draw blood from Majestic with one kick, and she and Slade were together able to beat him into unconsciousness.

To put that into perspective, an issue earlier, Majestic tanked a nuke without suffering so much as a scratch. Yeah. So, pretty much, it doesn't matter how invulnerable anyone is, Rose brings them down to a level where she can hurt them. It's why she was chosen to be Superboy's handler, since even his TK invulnerability has no effect when fighting her (though that doesn't explain her explanation for how she beat him the first time around... then again, that's probably because that was before DC even decided she had this ability). Until any limits on this ability are imposed, we can assume that there isn't a single person (except probably magical entities) that she cannot physically hurt in the DCU.

While I will for sure miss her precog always and forever, I am not complaining one bit about this upgrade.

#2 Posted by Mercy_ (93336 posts) - - Show Bio

#3 Posted by Ravager4 (1688 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Dark Huntress said:

Is this... a compliment? xD

#4 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (41726 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm pretty sure Lobdell said that Slade was her father 

#5 Posted by Ravager4 (1688 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbat87: If he 100% confirmed it, then I didn't see where. The most I could find was Mackie saying something like "who says Deathstroke is her father?" or something like that. Can you find a link to where he said that? Would be most awesome.

#6 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (41726 posts) - - Show Bio
@Ravager4 said:

@spiderbat87: If he 100% confirmed it, then I didn't see where. The most I could find was Mackie saying something like "who says Deathstroke is her father?" or something like that. Can you find a link to where he said that? Would be most awesome. 

The writer also teased a possible encounter between Rose Wilson and her father, Deathstroke the Terminator. "I think that'll happen on a one way street that isn't heading towards Superboy," he said. "I would say that anybody that's looking for an interaction between Slade and his daughter are not going to be disappointed."

#7 Posted by Ravager4 (1688 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbat87: Wow, awesome, so maybe all hope is not lost! I wonder what route they'll go, though, whether or not they've met before, or if they'll be interacting for the first time.

#8 Posted by sethysquare (3965 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ravager4: Okay I saw that. Seems like she is his daughter after all. So now there is the mystery of who is project 1.

#9 Posted by Ravager4 (1688 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare: Yeah, once she leaves that series for The Ravagers, I don't think she'll really have anything to do with Superboy anymore. This is especially considering the part of Lobdell's quote where he says, "I think that'll happen on a one way street that isn't heading towards Superboy." So whatever future developments happen with Superboy or N.O.W.H.E.R.E. or whatever, it doesn't look like Rose will be involved with it.

#10 Posted by Mercy_ (93336 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ravager4: The highest of praise :)

#11 Posted by Ravager4 (1688 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Dark Huntress: Well then thank you very much :D

#12 Edited by Ravager4 (1688 posts) - - Show Bio

Now that Rose has appeared in another two issues so far this month, in Superboy #8 and Legion Lost #8, I have updated this post to include my thoughts pertaining to her most recent appearances. My new thoughts are all in bold.

#13 Edited by RoseFairchild (52 posts) - - Show Bio

Um, you really overlooked something in regards to issue 8 of Superboy, namely who she lost. It has nothing to do with her past. It has to do with someone she lost recently, someone who's lose might have Rose according to Solstice fall back into the darkness because of how distraught she's been. That someone she's lost being Caitlin, not her mother. I mean half of Roses dialogue the past few issues has been about losing Caitlin.

You've done so great with this Rose work up that I'm really surprised you missed that.

#14 Edited by Ravager4 (1688 posts) - - Show Bio

@RoseFairchild: I actually did consider that... but does Solstice even know about Rose losing Caitilin? I admit I haven't read a couple of the earlier issues, so I don't know if Solstice was around to know about that, unless she can read minds now. If she doesn't know about it, then it wouldn't make any sense for her to say that in regards to Caitlin. However, she was around when they first found Rose, so it would make more sense for her to know about a past loss (especially considering Rose's darker self was also in the past), with the possibility of Rose's mother, as I guessed. I mean, obviously Rose 'losing' Caitlin affected her a great deal, and would be the bigger loss she's currently feeling, but again, I didn't think Solstice knew about that, which was why I made a different guess. And again, it was just a guess, or not even a guess, more me just wondering out loud.

Edit: Though, to be honest, even in spite of any inconsistencies regarding Solstice's knowledge of it, I hope it is referring to Caitlin. Something about Rose and Red's relationship just amuses me

#15 Posted by RoseFairchild (52 posts) - - Show Bio

I dunno, maybe Solstice can sense the fact the Rose suffered a recent loss. Don't really know much about Solstice so I'm winging it on that, but that's just what I think.

And yes, I'm found of the Rose/Caitlin dynamic as well, as anyone can tell by my user name. I'm normally not one for shipping but part of me does for them. However unlikely that outcome may be.

#16 Edited by Ravager4 (1688 posts) - - Show Bio

@RoseFairchild: I don't know, I think it might be more likely than we expect... I mean, probably not that likely, but judging from some of their dialogue together, how much losing Caitlin affected her, and how much Rose obviously cares for, maybe thy're trying to set that up? xD Just a shot in the dark, but you never know. Once The Ravagers comes out in a month, I have a theory that, while starting out as a villain of that series, Rose will end up converting and joining the team, mostly because of Caitlin.

On a side note, the ship name of Red Rose is just... too perfect.

#17 Posted by sethysquare (3965 posts) - - Show Bio
I like rose. As long as they dont pair her up with Superboy. Superboy belongs to cassie and cassie only.
#18 Posted by Ravager4 (1688 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare: I can't say I've ever been fond of Superboy/Rose either, though fortunately it looks like she's moving away from his series.

#19 Posted by sethysquare (3965 posts) - - Show Bio
I would still like to see rose in Superboy but I think with rumors of Scott writing for Supermanhe is more likely trying to integrate Superboy into Superman family and with more Superman family rogues and characters (Or so I hope) I could do with less titans stuff in Superboy. Fortunately since Rose wont be featured much in TT, I can say Rose/Superboy wont be happening. I am intrigued by what was told about Rose being unstable andall and nowhere had to reprogram her. I think we'll get to see more of that in Ravagers.


#20 Posted by Ravager4 (1688 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare: well interviews have stated that her backstory will be fully explored in The Ravagers

#21 Posted by sethysquare (3965 posts) - - Show Bio
Im glad. Im upset that so many people are brushing off this book because they claim that the writer is horrible. Way to judge a book before its even released.


#22 Posted by Ravager4 (1688 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare: granted, I am picking it up mostly just for Rose. I'll follow her no matter where she goes or who is writing/drawing her... unless its Leifield

#23 Posted by sethysquare (3965 posts) - - Show Bio
I dont get the liefeld hate either. Sure his art may not suit everyone's taste, but dont see whats there to hate about him co plotting 2 books. Not saying that its going to be great but unless Ive tried the first issue and realised its absolutely horrible, I wont be so quick to dismiss him either.


#24 Posted by Ravager4 (1688 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare: well I've disliked just about everything I've ever read that involved Leifield... not much reason to believe the next thing he does will be any better. His art has always been an eyesore, and it hasn't changed since he started.

#25 Edited by RoseFairchild (52 posts) - - Show Bio

Personally I don't mind Leifield, he made Deadpool the merc he is today, so it's all good. Even though now a days his art really is outdated.

And I don't know much about Howard Mackie, is he really not good or something?

#26 Edited by Ravager4 (1688 posts) - - Show Bio

@RoseFairchild: I believe Howard Mackie is writing it. Not sure on the artist, though the interior art looks pretty good from what I've seen, specifically in this preview here.

The only problem I have is that I'm afraid we'll be seeing Rose grit her teeth a lot... I don't know why some artists think that she always needs to be gritting her teeth. Everything else looks pretty nice and detailed. Especially Rose's hair. I love her hair.

Edit: I actually don't know much about Mackie, to be honest.

#27 Posted by RoseFairchild (52 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't fully like the art myself, the face just looks weird to me. Otherwhy's it's pretty good, and the artist is Ian Churchill. His name is something like that, He actually did Teen Titans for awhile, before the reboot. His art's pretty good, and normally I don't have a problem with his faces, just there it just looks off. Maybe it's the no color.

#28 Edited by Ravager4 (1688 posts) - - Show Bio

@RoseFairchild: I do find that images look a lot different when it's colored vs. just the pencils, so that could be it. Also, her jawline is a bit round there, but it's not too bad. In any case, the art is much better than what we've seen of her in Superboy thus far (which has really been inconsistent. Sometimes she'll look fine, other times her face will just look really weird). Not a fan of how square her face is drawn in Superboy, either (not to mention, the artist of that series draws almost the exact same face for most of his female characters. Seriously, look at the images below. One is of Rose, the next is Supergirl, and the last is Wonder Girl. They're the same face, just different hair).

#29 Posted by RoseFairchild (52 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmm, true. Though I do feel like mentioning it looks as if the outfit she has on in that Ravager's artwork is the same new dark blue and red one from Legion Lost. I can tell as it has the plates on her wrists like in Legion Lost. I actually really like this new darker look.

Though I gotta say, she's gone through a lot of outfits in just 8 issues. First one with the skirt, which I hated, glad N.O.W.H.E.R.E. changed their uniforms after the first issue. Second one was the longest used, with the shoulder pads, then the third one which was pretty similar but without the shoulder pads, which is what she's been wearing in the latest Superboy issue's. And now this dark one.

#30 Edited by Ravager4 (1688 posts) - - Show Bio

@RoseFairchild: Yeah, quite a lot of outfits... though to be fair, the skirt outfit was part of Superboy's virtual reality training, so it wasn't really her wearing it (also loved how Rose chastised Red for making her virtual reality self a 'total Mary Sue'). As for the outfit she'll be wearing in Ravagers, it does look like it'll be the one she had in Legion Lost, same style and colors, as seen in variant cover for The Ravagers #1. Personally, I really like that one the most out of all the ones I've seen (it's also interesting to note that though her outfits keeps changing, it seems to get better each time it does).

Edit: Oh, ha, just realized you meant her first actual costume, I didn't notice it actually had a miniature skirt on it, thought you meant the long skirt from the VR. Yeah, I didn't like that outfit either.

#31 Posted by RoseFairchild (52 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow, loving that variant cover. And yeah it's true that each costume is better then the last.

And yeah, that one. Didn't like it either, the skirt was horrible, color was like pea soup, and those shoulder pads were mega oversized. Only thing I liked of it was it gave me my favorite Rose panel post reboot. Took part of it for my avi, I just love how she goes, 'Brrr, so scary am you.' I laugh every time.

#32 Posted by Ravager4 (1688 posts) - - Show Bio

@RoseFairchild: Ha, yeah, I love those panels, too. "You don't have a lot of friends, do you?" Rose's pose in response to that question is gold, as if she's saying "Psh, so what?"

#33 Posted by RoseFairchild (52 posts) - - Show Bio

I never got that response from her pose, dunno how to put into words what I felt she said with it really.

And that panel perfectly embodies Rose and Caitlin's relationship. It's what made me love the two of them together.

#34 Edited by Ravager4 (1688 posts) - - Show Bio

@RoseFairchild: Now that I look back at it, I think I read the silhouette wrong. Now it looks more like she's shrugging to me... thought it was some kinda of flippant hand wave before. That does rather change the interpretation of it... closer to a "yeah, I know, but I try not to think about it" or something. My favorite panel from that scene is the one below. Something about the pose, with Rose's hand on her shoulder, and Caitlin reaching up to hold it, while taking her glasses off. The dialogue, too, Rose basically stating, in her own way, that not all the money in the world could get her to harm Caitlin.

#35 Posted by RoseFairchild (52 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, I knew she was shrugging, didn't realize you didn't though.

And wow, you really thought deep into that panel. Not saying you're wrong though, it's very in the right in my opinion.

Also another little tidbit that Caitlin cared for Rose is the fact that she had that vid clip file of Rose's Culling file hidden away. Must of cared for her if she was hiding that away above all others.

#36 Posted by Ravager4 (1688 posts) - - Show Bio

@RoseFairchild: Yeah, and that particular scene when Rose views the vid clip raises some questions. Because, I've been wondering, just what is Rose doing chasing after the Ravagers in attempts to kill them, when Caitlin, probably the person she cares about most, is on said team? Either a) she doesn't yet know Cailtin is on the team, and ends up finding out later, or b) Harvest can forcibly control her somehow, which might be in reference to the clip stating "activate on culling day", with said activation being to control her or something.

#37 Posted by RoseFairchild (52 posts) - - Show Bio

Who knows, I don't see how she doesn't know Caitlin isn't on the team if they go up against eachother. It may be mind control, or who knows what. We just gotta wait and find out I guess.

Oh and on the eye patch, dunno if you ever saw this interview, but in one, I think it was the writer of the Superboy series, he said the reason he got rid of the eye patch was he always felt it was a horrible piece of writing her stabbing out her own eye just to please her father. I kinda agree with that in all honesty.

#38 Edited by Ravager4 (1688 posts) - - Show Bio

@RoseFairchild: Well, true, it did kind of come out of nowhere, though I still liked the eye patch as one of her features. I don't know, something about women with eye patches I find attractive/badass. Like, she doesn't need both eyes to kick your ass, or something lol. I mean, it's not too big a deal to get rid of it, but I did prefer her with it. Then again, I pretty much only grew to love her character after she lost her eye and then joined the Teen Titans after One Year Later, so that might have something to do with it.

Edit: Though, to be fair, she was hopped up on Slade's mind altering serum at the time she took her eye, so it wasn't exactly a real, rational decision. Still, I agree it would have been better if she lost her eye a different way.

#39 Edited by RoseFairchild (52 posts) - - Show Bio

Yah, the eye patch was something I really liked about her features. But if you ask me it's just like the pirate suit she used to wear pre-boot.

It's like you said, she spends so much time trying to distance herself from her father but still dresses like him, which I agree makes no sense. Taking that suit and the eye patch away are in my opinion the creators way of doing that.

Edit: And I agree, pre brain wash she was nothing special. I mean what'd she do? Babysit Roy's kid. Nothing special.

#40 Edited by Ravager4 (1688 posts) - - Show Bio

@RoseFairchild: She did challenge Big Barda at one point, though. That takes guts. Or stupidity. Still would have been hilarious to see.

As for the costume part, I think i'm actually starting to like her newest costume best out of anything she's ever worn, even pre-reboot. Something about it, I can't put my finger on it, but every time I see it I like it more. And right now, she does work better without an eye patch, I think. Maybe it would clash with her new look, I don't know, I'm fine without for now. As long as she keeps that awesome new costume.

And on another note, I feel like the artists are finally figuring out how to draw her, too. I've noticed that her face is becoming less and less square/wide with each of her appearances (most noticeably in her Legion Lost appearance, but even in the Teen Titans annual today, she looked amazing in her brief appearance).

Her face is a bit narrower and more gaunt, which looks much better.

#41 Posted by RoseFairchild (52 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh, I never knew that, I actually haven't been reading comics that long, only about... 4 years. And even less of that time DC. But I know most of Rose's history thanks to reading up on her on here and the wiki's.

And yeah, this new costume really is the best of all of them. The red and black and grey and blue all really go well together. Love the hip holders, and the gauntlets and the old pirate boots which she's always had. And I especially like the way the neck of the costume is like a turtleneck, that small detail I just love.

Yeah, that page was great, honestly the only thing I liked about Teen Titans Annual. Everything was just too rushed and choppy, kinda sucked. Shouldn't of tried to squeeze all this in 1 issue. Especially a 34 page issue, not exactly many pages.

Haven't really taken notice of Rose defining, though you're probably right, it just takes artists awhile to get the hang of them. It's like in the TMNT comic I read, first issue April was hideous, now she's drawn beautifully, and it's only been 8 issues.

#42 Posted by Ravager4 (1688 posts) - - Show Bio

@RoseFairchild: Not to mention, introducing Artemis (presumably from the Young Justice cartoon) and then apparently killing her off in the same issue. That was just pointless. But really, in spite of being 34 pages, not a lot really happened, and it all took up so much space. They wake up in the colony, they get transported to the crucible, they fight with legion lost for a bit, leash brings in all the other kids, they fight for a while, and then that's it. I get a really bad feeling though that Rose is goign to be jobbed out to Superboy next week... the solicit reads "SUPERBOY vs. ROSE WILSON – round two!" And it's unlikely that they'll have him lose to her twice, plus with him having telekinesis... I just get a bad feeling it's not going to be pretty.

And yeah, compare how she looked in the first issue of Superboy to how she looks in later issues. There are vast improvements. Plus, when other artists get their hands on her, like in Legion Lost and Teen Titans, and the upcoming Ravagers, she looks gorgeous.

#43 Posted by RoseFairchild (52 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol, not the greatest choice for later picture, her face is so tiny in that one. But I do agree the look improves, her hair especially goes from flat and bland to flowing and fabulous.

But yeah, I hated them killing off Artemis, and it was all just too fast, they should of made this series go across like 7 issues instead of just four, just deal with them arriving this issue. But ah well. It sucks, but ah well.

You're probably right, but then it is Superboy's book, and he lost the first time, so what would you expect sadly. Least we know Superboy doesn't kill her.

#44 Posted by Ravager4 (1688 posts) - - Show Bio

@RoseFairchild: Oh well, it should still be interesting to see what happens... it also leaves me wondering what happens to the others of Harvest's attack force. Ridge obviously joins with Caitlin, Terra, BB, and all the others, while Rose and Warblade later pursue them... so do the others all die or something? I mean, wouldn't Harvest send more than just two people to try and bring in a team of like six? Sure, they're skilled and plenty badass, but they're not big heavy hitters, as far as I know (not that familiar with Warblade, but Rose won't be pulling off any big bruiser feats or anything). I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

#45 Posted by Ravager4 (1688 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay, so I don't know how I missed Legion Lost #9 earlier, for some reason I thought that came out next week. Anyway, I've re-updated my updates.

#46 Posted by RoseFairchild (52 posts) - - Show Bio

Personally I don't see her as being entirely truthful. Rose is hurting, it's pretty obvious, this might only be recently after finding out about Caitlin, and like you said, she might think all they had together was a farce, so I don't think she's really gone all psycho killer with no morals, I just think she's hurting pretty bad at the moment. She already showed a softer, well, hurting side in issue 5 after confronting Superboy.

I'm sure whatever happens during the first arc of The Ravagers'll fix all that. Hopefully.

Oh, and anyone else pick up on all the subtext between her and Caitlin?

#47 Edited by Ravager4 (1688 posts) - - Show Bio

@RoseFairchild: Yeah, I certainly hope that's all it is. I'm still clinging to hope that she'll make up with Caitlin in the first Ravagers arc and join the team. That would make all my dreams come true. As for the (heavy) subtext between them...

@Ravager4 said:

Their incredibly suggestive dialogue aside, I really do want to see Rose and Caitlin as friends again, their relationship was building into something nice.

Yeah, you're not the only one who picked up on it xD

Edit: Actually, this is an extremely similar situation to something that happened in my fan-fic, where Rose made a best friend, Rebecca, a cop who was against 'Ravager', the new vigilante hero acting in Silverstone (Rose's new adopted place of residence). When Rebecca discovered Rose's secret, she felt betrayed and lied to, as Rose had not only been keeping that a secret, but also been using a false identity the entire time, leading Becky to believe that their entire friendship had been a farce, though Rose is very adamant when trying to explain that their friendship was not a lie (much like Caitlin is trying to assure Rose of the same thing here). I just hope Rose and Caitlin make up in the real comic world, the same as Rose and Becky made up in my own world xD

#48 Posted by RoseFairchild (52 posts) - - Show Bio

I love subtext, lets you believe in something that may never come to pass. Though if Buffy the Vampire Slayer taught us anything it's that sometimes what subtext implies may just come true.

And I really doubt she's just psycho now, the main thing showing us that is how much she talks about Caitlin betraying her, she wouldn't mention it at all if it didn't hurt like hell.

#49 Posted by Ravager4 (1688 posts) - - Show Bio

@RoseFairchild: Yeah, that's true, and I do hope she's still sane, just hurting and betrayed. One issueI do have to raise, though, is that, in Rose's fight with Superboy, she claims that she wants to kill him now because "it's personal", because she lost Caitlin because of him. However, this is after she received the data that Caitlin left behind for her, the data that gave her the revelation that Caitlin had betrayed and lied to her, thus causing Rose to become angry and hateful towards her. Why would she have still been bringing up how much losing Caitlin because of Superboy meant to her, when at that time she had already learned about the 'betrayal', and was upset over that enough to want to fight and hurt Caitlin upon her return?

#50 Posted by RoseFairchild (52 posts) - - Show Bio

I dunno, part of me wonders if maybe that wasn't it, maybe Harvest told her afterwards, like after the culling already started, around the time Caitlin stole the ship and started heading towards the culling area. If Harvest has as much influence as it seems you know he must of found out all about that.

Or maybe, if what your saying is right after all, you could think of it like this, maybe she was so mad at Superboy for those reason's not cause she still cared for Caitlin, (though I believe deep down she still does) but maybe cause while she thinks it was all a lie now, Superboy's intervening was what brought it all to an end, like part of her doesn't care that it was all a lie, she still hates that it was ended by him since it was real to her at the time.

Though it was real, but y'know, I'm going by her point of view.

This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Comic Vine users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.