EARTH 2 Robin Design Revealed

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#101 Posted by IronBear (11 posts) - - Show Bio

Could Helena Wayne be the daughter of Damian Wayne and is Damian Wayne the current Earth 2 Batman?

#102 Posted by MonkeyToe (386 posts) - - Show Bio

@IronBear said:

Could Helena Wayne be the daughter of Damian Wayne and is Damian Wayne the current Earth 2 Batman?

I think anything is possible at this point.

How about this: On Earth 2, Thomas Wayne is Batman and is Helena is his daughter/Robin. But It's not Thomas Wayne Jr. it's Thomas Wayne Sr. and Helena is actually the alternate version of Bruce himself!

#103 Posted by The Mighty Monarch (2267 posts) - - Show Bio

@IronBear: Helena was originally Bruce's daughter way back when.

#104 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

Feck this. :'(

#105 Posted by frogjitsu (481 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm really liking this Robin costume. The only part the looks weird is the position of the R. Everyone knows that the R is supposed to be off to the side, not in the center.

#106 Posted by AngeTheDude (157 posts) - - Show Bio

This is definitely cool.

#107 Posted by The_MVPs (84696 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm liking it

Moderator
#108 Posted by Owie (3799 posts) - - Show Bio

That actually looks really good. One of the only new costumes that looks natural and not forced or over-done. Nice job.

#109 Posted by The Impersonator (5551 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice!

#110 Posted by Mbecks14 (2068 posts) - - Show Bio

@foxandwall: Batman of Earth 1/New Earth is still Bruce Wayne, her father.

#111 Edited by Knight Train (113 posts) - - Show Bio

Awesome design, love it. Really practical, and finally a female hero who is allowed to wear pants

#112 Posted by BlackArmor (6141 posts) - - Show Bio

Don't really like the costume.

#113 Posted by WarmerDays (5 posts) - - Show Bio

Her costume's shoulder pads and knee pads make her look like she belongs on a roller derby team; just put a bike helmet and roller skates on her and she'll be ready to go!

#114 Posted by dewboy01 (1876 posts) - - Show Bio

Is that Batman's daughter or what?

#115 Posted by redhood21 (815 posts) - - Show Bio

damien sure grew in to a fine woman.

#116 Posted by jcobmc (4 posts) - - Show Bio

Her costume reminds me of Jason Todd's DCnu Robin costume that they showed in a Red Hood and the Outlaws flashback

#117 Edited by _Zombie_ (10454 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm confused. Is Helena Wayne Huntress or Robin in the Earth-2 book?

#118 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1675 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, i'll start by saying I don't really care for the costume lol it reminds me way too much of the costume Jason was wearing in his flashback. Secondly, I wanted Dick to still be Robin here as he was on Earth-Two and the old Earth-2. But I understand they have to shake things up. With that being said, I really do hope he's Batman here now and not Nightwing. It'd be good to have one universe where he wears the cowl. Finally, where the heck is the JSA?

#119 Posted by The Mighty Monarch (2267 posts) - - Show Bio

@ZombieBigfoot: Sounds like she WAS Robin on Earth 2, but I assume she won't be in the Earth 2 book because she's getting stuck in the main earth with Power Girl, where she becomes Huntress.

#120 Posted by _Zombie_ (10454 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Mighty Monarch said:

@ZombieBigfoot: Sounds like she WAS Robin on Earth 2, but I assume she won't be in the Earth 2 book because she's getting stuck in the main earth with Power Girl, where she becomes Huntress.

Alright, I guess that makes some sense. Just confused me how Helena Wayne was used for both Robin and Huntress.

#121 Posted by Ftanng (8 posts) - - Show Bio

It's official. I'm buying Earth 2 when it comes out. :D

#122 Posted by foxandwall (49 posts) - - Show Bio
@Mbecks14 said:

@foxandwall: Batman of Earth 1/New Earth is still Bruce Wayne, her father.

But they are still different people...There is no blood relationship between the Helena from Earth 2 and the Batman from the new Earth.
#123 Posted by Mbecks14 (2068 posts) - - Show Bio

@foxandwall said:

@Mbecks14 said:

@foxandwall: Batman of Earth 1/New Earth is still Bruce Wayne, her father.

But they are still different people...There is no blood relationship between the Helena from Earth 2 and the Batman from the new Earth.

I don't know if they'd technically be considered different people. They'd be genetically identical in every way, and if Earth 2 Bruce Wayne is Helena's father, than technically she shares the same DNA of Batman from Earth 1. It's kind of like identical twins. So the Batman of Earth 1 would still be like Helena's "uncle"

#124 Posted by foxandwall (49 posts) - - Show Bio
@Mbecks14 said:

@foxandwall said:

@Mbecks14 said:

@foxandwall: Batman of Earth 1/New Earth is still Bruce Wayne, her father.

But they are still different people...There is no blood relationship between the Helena from Earth 2 and the Batman from the new Earth.

I don't know if they'd technically be considered different people. They'd be genetically identical in every way, and if Earth 2 Bruce Wayne is Helena's father, than technically she shares the same DNA of Batman from Earth 1. It's kind of like identical twins. So the Batman of Earth 1 would still be like Helena's "uncle"

Excuse me, I did not get it. Why do you think they will be genetically identical?  
#125 Posted by The Mighty Monarch (2267 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mbecks14: Pretty sure it doesn't work that way. Also, you're over thinking it.

#126 Posted by ThomasElliot (362 posts) - - Show Bio

@BatClaw89:

I agree, except with the old people crap.

Old people are USED to multiverse and alternate realities.... I got no complaints. I love this crap.

Its the newbies who are crying over more recent versions of characters being replaced.

'newer' readers cried about Tim Drake. Cried about new Starfire. Cried when Richard Grayson went back to being Nightwing. Cry whenever a cartoon has Hal Jordan over Jon Stewart. And are crying because Huntress' origin is reverting back to the original... which, from what I can tell, really doesn't change her actual persona all that much.

#127 Posted by MonkeyToe (386 posts) - - Show Bio

@ZombieBigfoot said:

@The Mighty Monarch said:

@ZombieBigfoot: Sounds like she WAS Robin on Earth 2, but I assume she won't be in the Earth 2 book because she's getting stuck in the main earth with Power Girl, where she becomes Huntress.

Alright, I guess that makes some sense. Just confused me how Helena Wayne was used for both Robin and Huntress.

I didn't know Helena was also the Huntress, but I think you might be right on this being confusing. The reason I say this is because Helena is Huntress currently in the Huntress mini series. I think there was some debate on whether this title was cannon to the DCnU before but this article says Huntress #6 is going to show why she is stuck on Earth 0 which would make the comic a cannon story. It makes me wish I had picked this up from the beginning! Was the Huntress storyline any good? Maybe they will release it on TP.

So I think the Robin look in this article is a flash back of Huntress when she was Robin. Unless I am missing important info about the Huntress from her mini.

#128 Posted by mettlekm (417 posts) - - Show Bio

looks like a jubilee rip off.... :)

#129 Posted by _Zombie_ (10454 posts) - - Show Bio

@MonkeyToe said:

@ZombieBigfoot said:

@The Mighty Monarch said:

@ZombieBigfoot: Sounds like she WAS Robin on Earth 2, but I assume she won't be in the Earth 2 book because she's getting stuck in the main earth with Power Girl, where she becomes Huntress.

Alright, I guess that makes some sense. Just confused me how Helena Wayne was used for both Robin and Huntress.

I didn't know Helena was also the Huntress, but I think you might be right on this being confusing. The reason I say this is because Helena is Huntress currently in the Huntress mini series. I think there was some debate on whether this title was cannon to the DCnU before but this article says Huntress #6 is going to show why she is stuck on Earth 0 which would make the comic a cannon story. It makes me wish I had picked this up from the beginning! Was the Huntress storyline any good? Maybe they will release it on TP.

So I think the Robin look in this article is a flash back of Huntress when she was Robin. Unless I am missing important info about the Huntress from her mini.

Wouldn't know, didn't read it.

#130 Posted by Mbecks14 (2068 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Mighty Monarch: @foxandwall:

If Earth 2 Batman is Bruce Wayne, then he is exactly the same as our Bruce Wayne on Earth 1. Except from a slightly different universe with a different upbringing. Have you ever read a multiverse book, watched Fringe, or anything before? They're both Bruce Wayne. Except one has a daughter, Helena. The twin analogy was supposed to make it easier to understand.

#131 Posted by The Mighty Monarch (2267 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mbecks14: If he was EXACTLY the same, there'd be no point, though I get what you're getting at.

The thing is, there are no clear defined 'rules' for how a multiverse works, it's still either a fictional or theoretical concept. It's not like the laws of physics where the laws are always the same unless otherwise noted. Each and every multiverse functions by its own rules set by its creator. In JLA: Earth 2, in the CSA's universe, everyone's heart was on the opposite side of their chest. There's no specific guarantee they'd have the exact same DNA, though it's certainly very possible.

Personally I felt the twin analogy makes it MORE confusing. It treats them like they're too directly related. It makes more sense to treat them as different people. Batman of Earth 2 is 'Batman of Earth 2.' Normal Batman is 'Batman of Earth 0,' though that's the 'main' Earth, so we rarely add the 'Of Earth 0.' Thus, Bruce Wayne of Earth 2 (Who was 99% certainly Batman at some point even if he's not during the series) had a daughter with Selina Kyle of Earth 2, Helena Wayne. Original Batman did not have a daughter with Selina Kyle (As far as we know, but incredibly unlikely atm). Helena Wayne became Robin of Earth 2, and somehow got transported to Earth 0 along with Supergirl of Earth 2. And at some point along this timeline, Supergirl of Earth 2 became 'Power Girl' and Robin of Earth 2 became 'Huntress.'

#132 Posted by Mbecks14 (2068 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Mighty Monarch: But they're not different people. Every story has different rules, but the basic concept rule of thumb is that they're the same person having gone through different experiences. Both Bruce Waynes are the son of Thomas and Martha Wayne, and thus have the same genetic DNA. Just because on Earth 2, Batman has a daughter with Catwoman, doesn't mean they're different people. My original point was about a relationship between Earth 2 Batman and Earth 2 Robin/Helena/Huntress, and how that would obviously be incest because she's his daughter. But then someone else suggested the possibility of Batman of Earth 1 and Helena getting together. Which would still be incest because her father is the same person. If you met your mother from a parallel dimension, would you sleep with her? Nope. Because she's still technically your mom and she still has the same DNA.

#133 Posted by The Mighty Monarch (2267 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mbecks14: Well, the incest thing was just a joke from the start. It's not like the original Batman and Robin had a gay relationship with each other; there's nothing really to defend there.

Side Note: I know it's not very clear, but the 'Main' Earth is actually Earth 0. Earth 1 is the home of the 'Superman: Earth One' and 'Batman: Earth 1' graphic novels.

Mmmmm, that's actually a more complex moral and/or ethical issue. IS it incest if you sleep with the parallel version of your mother? Maybe that version is your age and never had you. Is it ok? Some would say yes. I haven't taken a side in this issue, but I think it's a greater gray area than you make it out to be..... I'm off to go pitch this to DC now.

And for the sake of explanation, they are different 'characters' even if they're the same people with different experiences. It's far easier to make sure they're treated as individual characters even if they're the same people from different universes. It's like, if you were cloned, is your clone the same person as you; or are they their own person?

#134 Posted by Mbecks14 (2068 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Mighty Monarch: I realize it was a joke.

Side Note: We don't know that for a fact with DCnU anymore. But fair enough.

I would argue that the mother situation is NOT a gray area. Even if she didn't have you in her universe, you are still the child of her doppelganger and for ALL intents and purposes, her son. You'd still share the same DNA. The only gray area would be if you think incest is ok or not. Which is a matter of opinion.

I would agree that Batman of New Earth and Batman of Earth 2 are different characters but they are technically the same PERSON. They are both Bruce Wayne, born to Thomas and Martha Wayne and would possess the same exact genetics. The only difference would be in how they were raised or reacted to their parents death. In a more distinct difference, let's take Batman and Owlman. Traditionally (though it has been varied) Owlman is Bruce Wayne but evil. They are the same person, but made different life decisions.

Your cloning argument is similar, and i understand what you mean, but it's not exactly the same. Because a clone is a copy of a person. It's essentially a new lifeform and has its own destiny as it has been created separately from the original source. But say, Supergirl wouldn't hook up with Superboy because she's Superman's cousin and Superboy is Superman's clone and they share DNA, making them related.

With doppelgangers from parallel worlds, they are exactly the same person. In some cases they could turn out to be virtually indistinguishable. But in other cases, they can be radically different. But at their core, they are the same person. They just exist in parallel.

#135 Posted by The Mighty Monarch (2267 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mbecks14: So if you were in an alternate universe, met a girl, hit it off, and you were sure she was the one, if you found out she was the same individual who was your mother in the other universe, that would change things; even if she was a radically different person? As different as Owlman is from Batman? I mean, I'm not saying I definitely wouldn't mind, but I'd really have to think about it, because I'd met this girl and known her for however long it took to fall in love before finding out she became my mother in an alternate universe. I knew her as 'Person I fell in love with who's nothing like my mom,' it'd be hard for me to see her as my mom, especially when SHE, that version, isn't directly my mom.

The distinction between 'character' and 'person' is the most important bit of my argument. That distinction must be made clear, and I think its easier on people to make sure they know its a different 'character' first, when explaining this to them if it confuses them.

Owlman has been Thomas Wayne Jr. for years now. He's Bruce's older brother who never existed in the main universe. Bruce Wayne existed in that Earth, but he was one who died in the alleyway. Owlman is essentially 'Bruce Wayne but evil' but he's another character. A lot of the DC characters are so vital to their universes, that sometimes when the actual people are absent, the universe creates others to fill the, for lack of a better term 'archetype' of the character. Ultraman is NOT Kal-El, but he IS Clark Kent. Superwoman is Lois Lane.

And the bottom bottom line, is that this is all still debatable. We don't know how multiverses TRULY work, we only know how they work in fiction, and they don't always work the same way. Perhaps only the 'core' of the characters are copied, and they actually aren't the same people. For all intensive purposes, Thomas Wayne Jr. is Bruce Wayne of that Earth. Especially considering DC has only 52 parallel universes, the entire structure of things could be different. Batman of Earth 2 could have DNA made up of completely different materials with the same function. But WE DON'T ACTUALLY KNOW UNLESS ANY COMIC EXPLICITLY STATES IT.

#136 Posted by FoxCircuit101 (56 posts) - - Show Bio

As expected from Jim Lee, its awesome!

#137 Posted by TheOptimist (713 posts) - - Show Bio

@ThomasElliot: Ha! I like you. I love this crap too.

#138 Posted by Mbecks14 (2068 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Mighty Monarch: I find it hard to believe that I wouldn't be able to distinguish my mother from another woman, but yeah i think it would change things. Even though that isn't the woman that physically gave birth to you, they're still the same person. It's like Back to Future, Marty meets a younger version of his mom, and she likes him but ultimately it'd be wrong. Because my mom from this dimension would be the same person. They're the same.

Owlman from the anti-matter universe, yes is not Bruce Wayne, but pre-crisis and presumably post-inifinite crisis Earth 3, he's evil Bruce. Which is why i noted it as different. Grant Morrison's CSA everyone is different, and that's why i didn't cite it as an example. It's also an anti matter universe, not a parallel world. In GM's Anti-Matter earth, yes Owlman and Batman are counterparts, but not doppelgangers.

I agree, characterwise that Batman and his counterparts on other earths are different characters, but all of the variations on Bruce Wayne are still BRUCE WAYNE. It's like how the Batman of the adam west show is still Bruce Wayne as Batman, but so is Christian Bales' Bruce Wayne as Batman in Dark Knight. Same person, different character.

Using fiction as a source is risky, agreed, but we have to assume that all 52 Bruce Waynes, are the same physical person on each world, whatever becomes of him is different slightly but still the same person. They would all bear the same genetic make up because they all come from the same Thomas and Martha Wayne. If it were any differnet, he wouldn't be Bruce.

#139 Posted by The Mighty Monarch (2267 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mbecks14: That was the whole idea, some of the alternate characters are so wildly different, you can only tell they're the same person because of the alter ego or the fact that you're told that from the comic. Time Travel's a different thing though.

As far as I recall, post crisis Earth 3 isn't CSA. And then I submit to you the Tangent Universe. Still one of the 52, but so drastically different, many things are linked only by name. Superman is Harvey Dent. And he's black. We don't know if there's a Bruce Wayne in that Universe, at least from the stuff I've read from it so far. Batman is a magical suit of armor from centuries ago. But still. Superman is a black Harvey Dent. Completely unrecognizable aside from the name. And his DNA HAS to be different.

I'm saying that what if the universe made everything turn out the same way, but the very nature of DNA was different. Instead of ACTG, it's made of, I don't know, KRSF or something. Each universe could be governed by slightly different laws of nature, so that things ultimately appear exactly the same, but are radically different on an atomic level.

And I'm not-so-secretly hoping the CSA of the antimatter universe will be the new Earth 3. The idea of the Antimatter universe bothers me. It just seems cheesy, at least if the CSA are there. The weaponers, Anti-Monitor, Qward etc. are fine. But if there's an Antimatter Universe, doesn't that mean there should be an antimatter universe for each of the 52 other universes?

#140 Posted by cat_girl_2 (3 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nerx: it may not seem like incest at all in Earth 2, because maybe there is nothing too begin with.

#141 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@cat_girl_2: Even if it is nobody would mind

#142 Posted by fACEmelter88 (613 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmm, something different and unexpected...I like it.

#143 Posted by Xymox (9 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman & Robin romance, Go!

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