Personally, I think there needs to be pages for each individual Robin. It just doesn't make sense to have Dick Grayson, Jason Todd and Tim Drake all share the same article. How can we go about doing this?
Posted 1 year, 11 months ago
Personally, I think there needs to be pages for each individual Robin. It just doesn't make sense to have Dick Grayson, Jason Todd and Tim Drake all share the same article. How can we go about doing this?
We don't want to get the site into the case where we have 5 different Robins with Robin I, Robin II...etc. However, we do allow for you to create unique pages for Tim Drake, Dick Grayson...etc.
The reasoning? At a certain point this site needs to remain usable and easy to understand. I recieve submissions from people with all kinds of comic expertise. Some have been reading comics for 30 years and know all the differences between the Robins, others only know the character from the TV show. We need to strike a balance between being hardcore (flexible) and friendly to first time comic readers (easy to use). Can you imagine what kind of horrible submissions we'd recieve if when presented with results for a team member page that you saw 5 different robins? I just think a smaller portion of our members are going to be educated enough to make the right choice. Now you may be saying... well, maybe we should only let a smaller % of members submit content. I just really don't want to do that. Comic Vine specifically has the goal of trying to bring new people into comics by making histories easier to undersand. We will not be able to achieve that by making an encyclopedia that is as hard to follow as the comic books we're trying to summarize.
In the end that's what we're trying to do... summarize. Who is Robin, were many people Robin, in what different forms does he show up, how has he changed over the years, is that change for the good? Oh so that's who Nightwing is...etc.
The compramise for us hard core kids is that we can still build our Tim Drake, Cassie Kelly and Stephanie Brown pages seperate from the Robin page to get real specific. Also, there's plenty of space in the descriptions of the characters to break out the individual personalities and establish histories.
Posted 1 year, 11 months ago
We don't want to get the site into the case where we have 5 different Robins with Robin I, Robin II...etc. However, we do allow for you to create unique pages for Tim Drake, Dick Grayson...etc.
The reasoning? At a certain point this site needs to remain usable and easy to understand. I recieve submissions from people with all kinds of comic expertise. Some have been reading comics for 30 years and know all the differences between the Robins, others only know the character from the TV show. We need to strike a balance between being hardcore (flexible) and friendly to first time comic readers (easy to use). Can you imagine what kind of horrible submissions we'd recieve if when presented with results for a team member page that you saw 5 different robins? I just think a smaller portion of our members are going to be educated enough to make the right choice. Now you may be saying... well, maybe we should only let a smaller % of members submit content. I just really don't want to do that. Comic Vine specifically has the goal of trying to bring new people into comics by making histories easier to undersand. We will not be able to achieve that by making an encyclopedia that is as hard to follow as the comic books we're trying to summarize.
In the end that's what we're trying to do... summarize. Who is Robin, were many people Robin, in what different forms does he show up, how has he changed over the years, is that change for the good? Oh so that's who Nightwing is...etc.
The compramise for us hard core kids is that we can still build our Tim Drake, Cassie Kelly and Stephanie Brown pages seperate from the Robin page to get real specific. Also, there's plenty of space in the descriptions of the characters to break out the individual personalities and establish histories.
This can also be expanded in their individual pages. Dick Grayson is Nightwing. Stuff about Robin is there and can be added. Jason Todd? He was going as the Red Hood and then Nightwing. Maybe we should just have a Jason Todd page. Now, Robin is Tim Drake. In the ROBIN page, there should be some mention of the others but the focus, in my opinion should be on Tim.
Posted 1 year, 11 months ago
This can also be expanded in their individual pages. Dick Grayson is Nightwing. Stuff about Robin is there and can be added. Jason Todd? He was going as the Red Hood and then Nightwing. Maybe we should just have a Jason Todd page. Now, Robin is Tim Drake. In the ROBIN page, there should be some mention of the others but the focus, in my opinion should be on Tim.
I understand wanting to keep it simple and I really don't object to having a general page for all of the characters who have appeared as Robin, as long as the page explicitly states that it is about the "mantle" of Robin rather than whoever is currently Robin.
My main concern is that this system essentially "breaks" the appearance system as Robin has appeared in thousands of books but each character to use the name has been radically different.
I'll have to put expanding the Robin article to have sub-sections on each character on my list of things to do.
Posted 1 year, 11 months ago
I understand wanting to keep it simple and I really don't object to having a general page for all of the characters who have appeared as Robin, as long as the page explicitly states that it is about the "mantle" of Robin rather than whoever is currently Robin.
My main concern is that this system essentially "breaks" the appearance system as Robin has appeared in thousands of books but each character to use the name has been radically different.
I'll have to put expanding the Robin article to have sub-sections on each character on my list of things to do.
Datura says:
"I understand wanting to keep it simple and I really don't object to having a general page for all of the characters who have appeared as Robin, as long as the page explicitly states that it is about the "mantle" of Robin rather than whoever is currently Robin.My main concern is that this system essentially "breaks" the appearance system as Robin has appeared in thousands of books but each character to use the name has been radically different.I'll have to put expanding the Robin article to have sub-sections on each character on my list of things to do."
Yes, we're aware that it "breaks" the appearances at the issue level in that you can't seperate out which Robin was in which issue. However, at the end of the day Comic Vine is a character, and not issue centric database. If it was issue centric we'd display the robin volumes instead of the Robin character page as the default.
Believe me this was a HUUUUGE debate when we were designing the database and site. The main reason we went with a character centric system was because at the end of the day, people are gonna be searching for characters. Gambit, Rogue, Jean Grey, X-Men... and much less often searching for and seeking out Uncanny X-Men, issue 36.
Also remember that Robin is going to be searched for 100x more then Tim Drake.
Also as a quick example, do a search for Robin on the GDC or any other project similar to comicvine. It's a mess, and anyone not into comics (and a lot who do) see that search results page and go... "jesus, why are comics so confusing, how do people figure this out".
Post Edited:2006-12-15 13:10:57
Posted 1 year, 11 months ago
Datura says:
"I understand wanting to keep it simple and I really don't object to having a general page for all of the characters who have appeared as Robin, as long as the page explicitly states that it is about the "mantle" of Robin rather than whoever is currently Robin.My main concern is that this system essentially "breaks" the appearance system as Robin has appeared in thousands of books but each character to use the name has been radically different.I'll have to put expanding the Robin article to have sub-sections on each character on my list of things to do."
Yes, we're aware that it "breaks" the appearances at the issue level in that you can't seperate out which Robin was in which issue. However, at the end of the day Comic Vine is a character, and not issue centric database. If it was issue centric we'd display the robin volumes instead of the Robin character page as the default.
Believe me this was a HUUUUGE debate when we were designing the database and site. The main reason we went with a character centric system was because at the end of the day, people are gonna be searching for characters. Gambit, Rogue, Jean Grey, X-Men... and much less often searching for and seeking out Uncanny X-Men, issue 36.
Also remember that Robin is going to be searched for 100x more then Tim Drake.
Also as a quick example, do a search for Robin on the GDC or any other project similar to comicvine. It's a mess, and anyone not into comics (and a lot who do) see that search results page and go... "jesus, why are comics so confusing, how do people figure this out".
Post Edited:2006-12-15 13:10:57
I've just realized what bugs me so much about the generalized Robin page. It's the power rankings. Tim Drake is supposed to be one of the best fighters and detectives in the DCU right now, but Jason Todd as Robin didn't know much more than how to beat up street-level thugs. I'm just going to have to ignore those rankings whenever I visit that page.
Posted 1 year, 11 months ago
I've just realized what bugs me so much about the generalized Robin page. It's the power rankings. Tim Drake is supposed to be one of the best fighters and detectives in the DCU right now, but Jason Todd as Robin didn't know much more than how to beat up street-level thugs. I'm just going to have to ignore those rankings whenever I visit that page.
Datura says:
"I've just realized what bugs me so much about the generalized Robin page. It's the power rankings. Tim Drake is supposed to be one of the best fighters and detectives in the DCU right now, but Jason Todd as Robin didn't know much more than how to beat up street-level thugs. I'm just going to have to ignore those rankings whenever I visit that page."
I think Robin in general just get's slighted. His book isn't read as much as Batman so you have all these people that don't understand how Tim Drake really is one of the cooler characters in the DCU right now. Personally I think he's the only one fit to take Batman's mantle, specifically for his detective skills.
Posted 1 year, 11 months ago
Datura says:
"I've just realized what bugs me so much about the generalized Robin page. It's the power rankings. Tim Drake is supposed to be one of the best fighters and detectives in the DCU right now, but Jason Todd as Robin didn't know much more than how to beat up street-level thugs. I'm just going to have to ignore those rankings whenever I visit that page."
I think Robin in general just get's slighted. His book isn't read as much as Batman so you have all these people that don't understand how Tim Drake really is one of the cooler characters in the DCU right now. Personally I think he's the only one fit to take Batman's mantle, specifically for his detective skills.
I believe that Bruce has even stated that Tim will be "better" than him.
Posted 1 year, 11 months ago
I believe that Bruce has even stated that Tim will be "better" than him.
I agree that Tim is one of the Best characters in the DCU, however, i have to disagree with the coment about Jason only being able to beat up "Street-level thugs".
In JLA #0, one of the yesterdays had Batman excited about Jason. He took the title from Dick to give it to Jason because he saw Jason as better.
While Jason wasn't as well trained as Dick, he was definitely able to hold his own just as well as Dick could in the same amount of time.
Posted 1 year, 4 months ago
I agree that Tim is one of the Best characters in the DCU, however, i have to disagree with the coment about Jason only being able to beat up "Street-level thugs".
In JLA #0, one of the yesterdays had Batman excited about Jason. He took the title from Dick to give it to Jason because he saw Jason as better.
While Jason wasn't as well trained as Dick, he was definitely able to hold his own just as well as Dick could in the same amount of time.
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