Why all the hate?

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#51 Edited by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio

If you find women standing on their tippy toes with two right legs sexy....

#52 Posted by xerox_kitty (15762 posts) - - Show Bio
@inferiorego: You think he draws 'sexy'???
#53 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

Hate him? No. I just have no respect for him. I mean, I can draw a foot better than he can, and I have two left hands when it comes to drawing.

#54 Posted by Satyrquaze (4542 posts) - - Show Bio
@Psychotime said:
"I really don't get it, really. I think most people are just jumping the bandwagon because it's popular to hate him.I mean sure, he exaggerates anatomy and it really looks gross. But I know that he draws better than 80% of comic readers. Sure, his stories are cheesy. But he's never claimed that his work is superior, has he?Is it because he was successful in his time? Well comic readers have no one to blame but themselves. You've got no legitimate reason to hate him without blaming yourselves.He may be the main reason that I kept away from comics growing up because of his gross anatomy, but I still can't hate the guy.Besides, most comic fans owe him alot for creating Deadpool."

I'd like to point out that at no time does Psychotime mention who he's talking about and doesn't clearly identify his subject until he mentions one of his creations in the very last sentence. Yet, like me, I'm sure the vast majority knew exactly who he was talking about by the second sentence. 
Here's my beef with Liefield. He peaked as an artist in 1988, when he was working on the Hawk&Dove limited series. That was his best work, and it shows that he was trying to get noticed by DC and Marvel. Once he was noticed, he stopped putting forth the effort entirely, and his work has declined signifigantly since then. By the time he helped start Image he was a shadow of his former self artistically speaking... but hey, he was rich. And that's clearly all that matters to him. 
Psychotime openly admits in his first post that Liefield is a poor artist (compared to his peers) and a lousy writer (compared to a grade schooler), what are we supposed to support people who are signifigantly less talented, yet making loads of money off us?  
Come on, Rob Liefield is the Paris Hilton of comic artists.
#55 Posted by inferiorego (24845 posts) - - Show Bio
@xerox-kitty said:
" @inferiorego: You think he draws 'sexy'??? "
not sexy, but a character in a "come and get it" pose.
#56 Posted by Vance Astro (91238 posts) - - Show Bio
@Zoom said:
" Rob didn't create Cable or Deadpool.  He drew a guy with lines all over his face, pouches all over his costume and a bunch of oversize guns (overcompensating much Rob?) and he drew a guy that was Deathstroke with a with a red and black color scheme.  Later, other writers would give these characters actual personality, Cable much sooner than Deadpool. "
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#57 Posted by Satyrquaze (4542 posts) - - Show Bio
#58 Edited by xerox_kitty (15762 posts) - - Show Bio
#59 Edited by Storm Rider (166 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow, all of these posts and after all of these months and no one has made an issue of the swipes of other artists he's used over the years. From character poses to panels to entire double-page spreads, Liefeld has "borrowed" from some of the best.
HOWEVER, the guy put it all together in a package that appealed to a lot of people for a number of years (and still does; his books still sell). He's got a kinetic, frenetic style that is exciting, even if devoid of anything resembling technical prowess. He's made good money doing it, too. That may be the part that gets most people: the guy got rich and they didn't think of it first!
Seriously, I was never his biggest fan during the "boom" period, but the guy did contribute some memorable characters to the Marvel U and had a hand in revolutionizing the independent comic industry through Image, so he's not all bad in my book.
BTW, he recently did an interview where he explained the history behind "Captain Ameri-cans" in which he explained that it was a rush job at something like 2 AM, Jim Lee called him after seeing it and told him it needed to be fixed, he was tired and said it was fine, and the rest is history. Revisionist story or not, that's his take on it.

#60 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not mad because I didn't think of selling poorly drawn characters for oodles of money before Rob did.
I'm mad because people paid him oodles of money to draw characters poorly.  Ideally, the best comic book artists and writers should be employed at marvel, dc and all the other smaller companies.  It always annoys me when they employ sub par talent when I know there are hundreds of people out there who wish they could make comics professionally.  It annoys me more when the hacks develop a fan base and get rich off shitty work.
#61 Posted by Storm Rider (166 posts) - - Show Bio
@Zoom said:
@Zoom said:
" I'm not mad because I didn't think of selling poorly drawn characters for oodles of money before Rob did. I'm mad because people paid him oodles of money to draw characters poorly.  Ideally, the best comic book artists and writers should be employed at marvel, dc and all the other smaller companies.  It always annoys me when they employ sub par talent when I know there are hundreds of people out there who wish they could make comics professionally.  It annoys me more when the hacks develop a fan base and get rich off shitty work. "

Yes, and ideally the best actors will get the best roles in Hollywood, but Megan Fox is still getting work. Rob Liefled is the comic book equivilant of Megan Fox: he's popular but no one likes him. He gets showered with money and steady work, but everyone thinks he sucks. Then who's buying this stuff? Maybe not "everyone" is so down on ol' Rob.
In the end, the blame (if you want to call it that) lays with the fans. If no one made a big deal about Megan Fox (who, in my estimation, looks and acts like she may be an android of some type) or if no one bought Rob Liefeld books, they would go away. But people still support them, and in large numbers, too. Would anyone turn down being showered with adoration and money because someone deemed them "not worthy"? No, I don't reckon most people would. Simply, there is a market for this stuff and at one time it was actually a HUGE market. I almost never see supporters of his work though. So, unless he's buying 30,000 copies of everything he does, there's a pretty big silent fanbase out there somewhere.
My personal opinions aside (and again, I'm not really a supporter but his contributions can't be denied), unless he has some mutant power of persuasion over comic book editors, they are hiring him for a reason. That reason is because his name can still sell a book. Don't ask me why, but it's true and that's pretty much the reality of it.
#62 Edited by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio

At least Megan Fox is enjoyable to look at.  Rob doesn't have redeeming qualities. 
Also, most comics are essentially run by two companies.  Its much easier to recognize when someone isn't pulling their weight and to get rid of them in the comic industry than the movie industry. 
And I agree that there was a huge fanbase for Liefield and some of it probably still exists.  That doesn't mean his work isn't crap.
#63 Posted by Storm Rider (166 posts) - - Show Bio

Well....his twitter feed is pretty funny:
Some examples:
" For Halloween I'm gonna dress up as myself, and walk around the neighborhood scaring kids by saying "I'm gonna draw you!!"" AIEEEEE SCARY"
" Time to take a shower in my "Resting on my Laurels Money" 10:10 AM Sep 25th from web  "
" Time to do some of those Wanted 2 Character Studies that Mark Millar asked me to work up... Angelina Jolie is gonna look HOT with pouches! 2:03 PM Sep 28th from web  "

#64 Posted by superskrull1985 (15 posts) - - Show Bio
For the record I am only referring to Rob Liefeld's work on X-Force in 1989-1990.

People hate on Liefeld because hes an easy target. And for Greg Land's tracing, it's not a big deal, hell the master painter Johannes Vermeer used tracing with all his masterpieces and those are worth 50 million dollars a piece. Having a background in Illustration, I know tracing is not a new practice, it is just a time saver. I'm not a fan of Greg land either, but Liefeld's original work with X-Force in 1989-1990 is awesome; it's original, it's wacky, it's action! He is a self taught artist, damn that is inspiring. He took New Mutants, which was horribly bad , worst selling Marvel title of the time and made it the best selling comic of all time (for the time) New Mutants #87. 

Liefeld creates a unique world with his art, very similar to John Romita Junior. Jr Jr has a similar wacky world, but JR JR style is a little more conventional so it is not negatively criticized like Liefeld's; have you ever tried copying JR JR's work? Its freaking hard because its not conventional, he uses single strokes to make his lines. They both create this world for the reader and that is what is so awesome about them.

If you are square you will say Rob Liefeld is a bad artist, just like how you might say Pablo Picasso is a bad artist (far from it). The uneducated, the followers and the haters are the ones against Liefeld.

I read Cable: X-Force from 2005ish and that wasssss bad. But I think most people jump on the Liefeld bandwagon. Rob Liefeld, Todd McFarlane and Jim Lee revolutionized comics for the 1990's.
#65 Posted by Benuben (230 posts) - - Show Bio
@superskrull1985: No, they didnt. They just made a lot of bad art (Well, Mcfarlene was good and Jim Lee got better) and a lots of rip-offs.  
McFarlene redeemed himself, by creating Spawn and his work on Spider-Man (but he is still jerk).  Jim Lee got better and now, hes one of the best artist comic book industry has. Liefeld just created a lots of muscular monsters and rip-offs.
#66 Posted by ChaosBlazer (3930 posts) - - Show Bio

Personally, I think Liefeld is a complete a**hole. He constantly rips on other artists who he thinks he is better than, like the new creative team for Deadpool. He called them 'D listers', and he considers himself an A-lister.

His art sucks, he puts forth no effort at all (he admitted he sometimes inks his panels while driving, dangerous and sloppy) and he gets along with nobody. He quit Image seconds before they kicked him out.

He also brags about how Deadpool and Cable haven't had a costume change since they were created, a 'testimony to great creation' or some bullcrap like that. He didn't create them alone anyways. As if getting costume changes means the character is a bad character in some way. He sounds like the old guy you hear bragging about how his son was a great football player in highschool.

Liefeld makes so many anatomical mistakes, even in his new52 art. He doesn't even try to fix it, he just inks it over and colors it.

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