Why all the hate?

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#1 Posted by Psychotime (623 posts) - - Show Bio

I really don't get it, really. I think most people are just jumping the bandwagon because it's popular to hate him.

I mean sure, he exaggerates anatomy and it really looks gross. But I know that he draws better than 80% of comic readers. Sure, his stories are cheesy. But he's never claimed that his work is superior, has he?

Is it because he was successful in his time? Well comic readers have no one to blame but themselves. You've got no legitimate reason to hate him without blaming yourselves.

He may be the main reason that I kept away from comics growing up because of his gross anatomy, but I still can't hate the guy.

Besides, most comic fans owe him alot for creating Deadpool.

#2 Posted by inferiorego (20586 posts) - - Show Bio

Can't draw feet, can't draw people in natural poses, his backgrounds disappear, his proportions are different in every panel and yes, his anatomy is gross.
I've disliked this guy since the moment I laid eyes on his work. I can't think of anyone on here, other than myself, who is vocal about disliking him.

80% Sh!t, he draws better than 95% of readers, but most of us are readers, not artists. I do know I can out-write the cat for a fact though. +1 IE

I don't hate him, I hate his art, there's a huge difference. There are very few people I actually hate in the industry, maybe two, but it's never because of their work, it's always about how they treat their fans. I always thought Michael Turner was a wonderful person, but hated his art. At least, that's how it works for me.

Staff
#3 Posted by geraldthesloth (33313 posts) - - Show Bio

Lets take into account the good ol' cap heroes reborn picture cant UNSEE this huh?




Next Garrison Kane and Deadpool...Way too make my 2nd favorite Weapon X member look like a idiot


But i think we can all give him a HAND on this amazing shatterstar drawing




I didn't know shatterstars fist was the size of his head and that his mutant gene was FLEX HARD



Look at these feet *gag* there so small and his thighs are bigger than his BODY..and HIS HANDS NOT EVEN HOLDING THE GUN.


#4 Posted by inferiorego (20586 posts) - - Show Bio

I love when he gets sick of drawing feet and puts smoke or debris over him

Staff
#5 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio

Because he is hands down the worst artist to every be paid to draw comics.
His writing is terrible too.
And because he's ugly.

#6 Posted by inferiorego (20586 posts) - - Show Bio
Zoom said:
"Because he is hands down the worst artist to every be paid to draw comics."
entirely not true.
Staff
#7 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio
inferiorego said:
"Zoom said:
"Because he is hands down the worst artist to every be paid to draw comics."
entirely not true."
And the laziest.

Nobody else just scribbles in the background so they don't have to draw scenery.
#8 Posted by inferiorego (20586 posts) - - Show Bio
Zoom said:
"inferiorego said:
"Zoom said:
"Because he is hands down the worst artist to every be paid to draw comics."
entirely not true."
And the laziest.Nobody else just scribbles in the background so they don't have to draw scenery."
good point, but at least he draws.... Greg Land traces pictures of porn stars.... Artist Fail
Staff
#9 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio
inferiorego said:
"Greg Land"
There is Land.  He's pretty freaking lazy.  I can't get over the fact that traced or not (I know, traced) every single woman he draws looks like they're having sex.
#10 Posted by inferiorego (20586 posts) - - Show Bio
Zoom said:
"inferiorego said:
"Greg Land"
There is Land.  He's pretty freaking lazy.  I can't get over the fact that traced or not (I know, traced) every single woman he draws looks like they're having sex."
it sickens me, not the porn part, the being paid to be a lazy *#*#*$# part
Staff
#11 Posted by Methias (437 posts) - - Show Bio

Come on guys, Liefeld is great, I mean he made sure all the comics from the 90's are super cheap now. I thanked him for it when I saw him at ECC.

#12 Posted by inferiorego (20586 posts) - - Show Bio
Methias said:
"

Come on guys, Liefeld is great, I mean he made sure all the comics from the 90's are super cheap now. I thanked him for it when I saw him at ECC.

"
ecc?
Staff
#13 Posted by Chaos Agent (2150 posts) - - Show Bio
inferiorego said:
"Methias said:
"

Come on guys, Liefeld is great, I mean he made sure all the comics from the 90's are super cheap now. I thanked him for it when I saw him at ECC.

"
ecc?"
Emerald City Convention ( I think)
#14 Posted by inferiorego (20586 posts) - - Show Bio
Chaos Agent said:
"inferiorego said:
"Methias said:
"

Come on guys, Liefeld is great, I mean he made sure all the comics from the 90's are super cheap now. I thanked him for it when I saw him at ECC.

"
ecc?"
Emerald City Convention ( I think)"
oh ok, that's was almost weird... ecc is the initials of the college i teach at...
Staff
#15 Posted by Chaos Agent (2150 posts) - - Show Bio
inferiorego said:
"Chaos Agent said:
"inferiorego said:
"Methias said:
"

Come on guys, Liefeld is great, I mean he made sure all the comics from the 90's are super cheap now. I thanked him for it when I saw him at ECC.

"
ecc?"
Emerald City Convention ( I think)"
oh ok, that's was almost weird... ecc is the initials of the college i teach at..."
well my guess madde more sense lol
#16 Edited by Psychotime (623 posts) - - Show Bio

My eyes! They burn!

#17 Edited by Dane (10474 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah you should probably have checked out Liefeld's art beforehand. The thing that hurts is there are a *lot* of people who want to be artists in an industry where there are very *few* jobs, particularly at the major labels. Rob Liefeld is a guy who worked on some pretty major books and he got there by half-assing a lot of stuff and honestly his anatomy and perspective are below what I would consider a basic level. He's supposed to be a professional.

This isn't to say I dislike him on a personal level or that I hate all of his art. But there is an artist show-off part of these forums right? and I'm not saying everyone on there is the next big star in comics but some of them can seriously draw to a very very high standard and honestly the chances of them getting into big companies like DC or Marvel? could be expressed as a single figure percentage or indeed considerably less. Rob Liefeld has worked on a lot of major Marvel titles and could potentially work on similar major titles in future without too much difficulty. That's kinda sad to me. I think he has great value in the industry, he has invented some fantastic characters and such but I just don't think he should get jobs as an artist because hes Rob Liefeld when you could line up artists who are more technically skilled down the street and around the block.

#18 Posted by xerox_kitty (15760 posts) - - Show Bio

inferiorego said:

"Can't draw feet, can't draw people in natural poses, his backgrounds disappear, his proportions are different in every panel and yes, his anatomy is gross.I've disliked this guy since the moment I laid eyes on his work. I can't think of anyone on here, other than myself, who is vocal about disliking him.80% Sh!t, he draws better than 95% of readers, but most of us are readers, not artists. I do know I can out-write the cat for a fact though. +1 IEI don't hate him, I hate his art, there's a huge difference. There are very few people I actually hate in the industry, maybe two, but it's never because of their work, it's always about how they treat their fans. I always thought Michael Turner was a wonderful person, but hated his art. At least, that's how it works for me."


Agreed.  He's jsut a terrible artist.  He isn't hate because he was popular.  He was popular because steroid-aggressive types were popular.  But trends and tastes in comics have changed, but he hasn't.

It annoys me that he gets paid whenever characters he created are used.  But... all he did was draw & name them!  Someone else came up with the plots, traits and almost non-existant background!  Imagine if you were the writer and you were stuck with his dreadful designs and you had to somehow draw out characters from an old guy with a metal arm and a Deathstrike rip-off... Yet the characters of Deadpool & Cable are unbelievably different from the 2 dimensional characters they were to begin with.  And now that a bastardised version of Deadpool has appeared on the big screen... Liefeld will receive even more money. 

Moderator
#19 Posted by inferiorego (20586 posts) - - Show Bio
xerox-kitty said:
"

inferiorego said:

"Can't draw feet, can't draw people in natural poses, his backgrounds disappear, his proportions are different in every panel and yes, his anatomy is gross.I've disliked this guy since the moment I laid eyes on his work. I can't think of anyone on here, other than myself, who is vocal about disliking him.80% Sh!t, he draws better than 95% of readers, but most of us are readers, not artists. I do know I can out-write the cat for a fact though. +1 IEI don't hate him, I hate his art, there's a huge difference. There are very few people I actually hate in the industry, maybe two, but it's never because of their work, it's always about how they treat their fans. I always thought Michael Turner was a wonderful person, but hated his art. At least, that's how it works for me."


Agreed.  He's jsut a terrible artist.  He isn't hate because he was popular.  He was popular because steroid-aggressive types were popular.  But trends and tastes in comics have changed, but he hasn't.

It annoys me that he gets paid whenever characters he created are used.  But... all he did was draw & name them!  Someone else came up with the plots, traits and almost non-existant background!  Imagine if you were the writer and you were stuck with his dreadful designs and you had to somehow draw out characters from an old guy with a metal arm and a Deathstrike rip-off... Yet the characters of Deadpool & Cable are unbelievably different from the 2 dimensional characters they were to begin with.  And now that a bastardised version of Deadpool has appeared on the big screen... Liefeld will receive even more money. 

"
original deadpool and cable are awesome.... one is from the future... other than that, same character
Staff
#20 Posted by speedlgt (2109 posts) - - Show Bio

I really dont respect nor like the critics of Rob....for several reasons..Not cause I think hes the best artist but because I think most people who speak out about his art and art in general no very little about the principles of design. you see guys once you have stuided art and become versed in its principles you dont judge it terms of the crude its "good" or it "sucks" there various design elements in all drawings that display a great deal of visual information about that artist. It is not so easy to judge so THINK before you slam an artist.

If Rob is "bad" and sucks? then ehy doesn not romaita jr "suck" why does no one talk about how his art sucks? Turner drew fore arms the size of tree trunks! no one slams him...... Think about it

#21 Posted by inferiorego (20586 posts) - - Show Bio
speedlgt said:
"I really dont respect nor like the critics of Rob....for several reasons..Not cause I think hes the best artist but because I think most people who speak out about his art and art in general no very little about the principles of design. you see guys once you have stuided art and become versed in its principles you dont judge it terms of the crude its "good" or it "sucks" there various design elements in all drawings that display a great deal of visual information about that artist. It is not so easy to judge so THINK before you slam an artist.If Rob is "bad" and sucks? then ehy doesn not romaita jr "suck" why does no one talk about how his art sucks? Turner drew fore arms the size of tree trunks! no one slams him...... Think about it"
Your statement is ridiculous. But lets go for it then.... By your reasoning, I can sit here and bash writers, film-makers, and actors until my eyes bleed, but you can't, unless you have a degree in film, or spent years studying it. You can't bash a teacher, unless you've studied to be one. Quick, lets go back and delete everyone's posts on movies, except for mine.



I work closely with artists on my books, I may not know all the in depth terms, or principles of design, but I know what looks good or bad, and I know why it looks good or bad. Almost everyone in here made valid points, and they explained why they don't like him.

P.S. This is about Liefeld, not Turner or RRJ. But, if you really feel angry, look at my first post, I mention that I hate his art too.
Staff
#22 Posted by Marshall Madness (248 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't HATE him. I'm sure he's an ok person. However, Rob Liefield does suck. I mean, compared to me, sure he's great, but I'm not an artist! Compared to most other pro artists out there it's really no comparison. And this is coming from a former fan. I used to think he was good when I was a kid and read New Mutants. But that's because I was 10. Then I started noticing real artists and how they didnt hide feet and anything else they couldn't draw. Then there is the disproportions, extra muscles and accessories... I could go on and on, but I won't.

#23 Posted by inferiorego (20586 posts) - - Show Bio
Marshall Madness said:
" sure he's great, but I'm not an artist!
You're entitled to your opinion no matter what you say, regardless of what you do.
Staff
#24 Posted by Marshall Madness (248 posts) - - Show Bio
xerox-kitty said:
"

inferiorego said:

"Can't draw feet, can't draw people in natural poses, his backgrounds disappear, his proportions are different in every panel and yes, his anatomy is gross.I've disliked this guy since the moment I laid eyes on his work. I can't think of anyone on here, other than myself, who is vocal about disliking him.80% Sh!t, he draws better than 95% of readers, but most of us are readers, not artists. I do know I can out-write the cat for a fact though. +1 IEI don't hate him, I hate his art, there's a huge difference. There are very few people I actually hate in the industry, maybe two, but it's never because of their work, it's always about how they treat their fans. I always thought Michael Turner was a wonderful person, but hated his art. At least, that's how it works for me."


Agreed.  He's jsut a terrible artist.  He isn't hate because he was popular.  He was popular because steroid-aggressive types were popular.  But trends and tastes in comics have changed, but he hasn't.

It annoys me that he gets paid whenever characters he created are used.  But... all he did was draw & name them!  Someone else came up with the plots, traits and almost non-existant background!  Imagine if you were the writer and you were stuck with his dreadful designs and you had to somehow draw out characters from an old guy with a metal arm and a Deathstrike rip-off... Yet the characters of Deadpool & Cable are unbelievably different from the 2 dimensional characters they were to begin with.  And now that a bastardised version of Deadpool has appeared on the big screen... Liefeld will receive even more money. 

"
Are we sure he gets royalties from Marvel for Cable and Deadpool? That's why all those guys left Marvel and formed Image back in the 90's, because they got no rights for the characters they created. If I had to guess, I would say he does not.
#25 Posted by inferiorego (20586 posts) - - Show Bio

That's what I thought too.

Staff
#26 Posted by Dane (10474 posts) - - Show Bio
speedlgt said:
"I really dont respect nor like the critics of Rob....for several reasons..Not cause I think hes the best artist but because I think most people who speak out about his art and art in general no very little about the principles of design. you see guys once you have stuided art and become versed in its principles you dont judge it terms of the crude its "good" or it "sucks" there various design elements in all drawings that display a great deal of visual information about that artist. It is not so easy to judge so THINK before you slam an artist.If Rob is "bad" and sucks? then ehy doesn not romaita jr "suck" why does no one talk about how his art sucks? Turner drew fore arms the size of tree trunks! no one slams him...... Think about it"
Did you even read the posts in the thread?
#27 Posted by speedlgt (2109 posts) - - Show Bio

well first not to sound like an a$$ (i really dont mean too)

But there more than likely is no one on this site that knows more about the subject of Art than me. Unless there is someone on the vine with a Masters in the subject and teaches at a University that is....I would be happy to talk to that person and share educated concepts about art and drawing.

now to clarify its fine to have opinions about art but I feel it is a very VALID point that since we all are her because he enjoy squential imagery which is 50% if not more of what comics are we should be a little more versed in understanding that visual media than most of the general public.

The general public is very crude regarding art its either "good" or "sucks" people understand it or they dont its very black and white. every time you check out a comic review by someone they always talk about the art! and not in terms of being good nor bad. But in terms of telling the story and thats whats important. 

People have the statments that his art is BAD because he doesnt draw hand, cant draw feet, cant draw the background and ETC ETC ETC. However have you considered his INTENT??? if you study art you know the importance of intention! do you really know he cant draw certian things?? what if all those characteristics are his INTENT and part of autographic style?? Speaking of which we are talking about a Artist who has one of the the most recognisable pencils in the business and that style shaped most of the 90s comics. Having that style that you can spot in an instant is very importnat in comics its what sets you apart from the pack.
I personally feel that my drawing techinques are at a higher level than Rob with reguard to basic anatomy and likness of the human form yet it is he who works in comics not me and it is him who has that style gives him placement. Thus is there something that I could learn from his work.

Not to mention that he did create some great characters and should be respected for that.
Baaically to answer the thread "why the hate" the hate is very much unwaranted. And is more so an example of people following a typecast of this artist (the guy that cant draw hands!!!) 

I would challenge all comic fans to learn more about drawing even if you dont draw simply to know more about what the artists do....the process the intent and the structure of sequential story telling.

#28 Posted by inferiorego (20586 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm a huge fan of stylization. Quietly, Mignola, and Yu are my favorite artists. Liefeld does have his own stylized art style (essentially he and Jim Lee have the same style, Liefeld just changed it up a bit) The problem I have are the same things mentioned prior.

"recognizable pencils in the business and that style shaped most of the 90s comics"

Agreed, but just as much credit has to go to Jim Lee & Todd McFarland.

Staff
#29 Edited by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio

What great characters did Rob Liefield create exactly?

Louise Simonson created Cable.  Rob Liefield just drew an old guy with a metal arm, an oversized gun, lots of pouches and lines all over his face. (And I wouldn't call Cable a great character anyway)

#30 Posted by geraldthesloth (33313 posts) - - Show Bio

And now i find out he's from ANAHEIM where I live  jesus christ

#31 Posted by Psychotime (623 posts) - - Show Bio
speedlgt said:
"But there more than likely is no one on this site that knows more about the subject of Art than me.
Lets see some art, please.

[link] Here's mine.

speedlgt said:
"now to clarify its fine to have opinions about art but I feel it is a very VALID point that since we all are her because he enjoy squential imagery which is 50% if not more of what comics are we should be a little more versed in understanding that visual media than most of the general public."
I agree with that.

speedlgt said:
"People have the statments that his art is BAD because he doesnt draw hand, cant draw feet, cant draw the background and ETC ETC ETC. However have you considered his INTENT??? if you study art you know the importance of intention! do you really know he cant draw certian things?? what if all those characteristics are his INTENT and part of autographic style??"
Highly unlikely. If he COULD draw hands/feet/ect, he'd actually draw them, not hide them.

speedlgt said:
"I would challenge all comic fans to learn more about drawing even if you dont draw simply to know more about what the artists do....the process the intent and the structure of sequential story telling."
Yes. Agreed.
#32 Posted by ARMIV (4140 posts) - - Show Bio
@inferiorego said:
" Zoom said:
"inferiorego said:
"Zoom said:
"Because he is hands down the worst artist to every be paid to draw comics."
entirely not true."
And the laziest.Nobody else just scribbles in the background so they don't have to draw scenery."
good point, but at least he draws.... Greg Land traces pictures of porn stars.... Artist Fail "
Wah-wah-wah-waaahh...
#33 Posted by ARMIV (4140 posts) - - Show Bio

Anyway,I don't think he's the worst artist out there (but that horrendous Captain America should doesn't do him justice),but he is definitely not the best...and to prove that is the Captain America piece he did...
...
Seriously,was that supposed to be a joke?! 
I mean,I know it was the 90's and everything,but c'mon!

#34 Posted by Phobos-Romulus (16 posts) - - Show Bio

I also dislike his art. His anatomy is wrong, his faces all look they're constipated. He also has no sense of composition and page layout either. That and, whenever he draws figures holding guns and/or swords, it looks as though he draws the hand first, then tries to squeeze the weapon in there with the wrong perspective. Someone said he was a lazy artist, and I agree.

#35 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dane said:
"This isn't to say I dislike him on a personal level"
I do.

I hate all lazy or unintelligent rich people.
#36 Posted by Vance Astro (90727 posts) - - Show Bio
@Zoom said:
" @Dane said:
"This isn't to say I dislike him on a personal level"
I do.I hate all lazy or unintelligent rich people. "
As do I.
Moderator
#37 Posted by geraldthesloth (33313 posts) - - Show Bio

That's it...I HAVE to post these








#38 Posted by Vance Astro (90727 posts) - - Show Bio

LMFAO.

Moderator
#39 Posted by MoonKnightFan123 (271 posts) - - Show Bio

and how fucking there anyone out there make fun of Robert Lefield, after all he's been trough! leave him alone, u lucky he even performed for you bastards

#40 Posted by MoonKnightFan123 (271 posts) - - Show Bio
@geraldthesloth said:
" Lets take into account the good ol' cap heroes reborn picture cant UNSEE this huh?

"
AHAHAAHAHAH wow
#41 Posted by Owen_Porter (83196 posts) - - Show Bio
@MoonKnightFan123: Watch the language please.
Moderator
#42 Posted by ARMIV (4140 posts) - - Show Bio
@MoonKnightFan123 said:
" @geraldthesloth said:
" Lets take into account the good ol' cap heroes reborn picture cant UNSEE this huh?

"
AHAHAAHAHAH wow "
MY EYES!!!
MY EYES!!!
#43 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio
@MoonKnightFan123 said:
"and how fucking there anyone out there make fun of Robert Lefield, after all he's been trough! leave him alone, u lucky he even performed for you bastards"
Gramatical and...vocabulary issues aside, I don't think any of us are glad that Lefield "perfomed" for us.  We would have rather had a different artist.
#44 Posted by ARMIV (4140 posts) - - Show Bio
@Zoom: He's making fun of that Britney Spears video,where that kid was shouting crap about how no one respects Britney or something stupid like that.
#45 Posted by MoonKnightFan123 (271 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes I was. But Rob created Deadpool and Cable! Leave him alone!

#46 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio
@ARMIV said:
"@Zoom: He's making fun of that Britney Spears video,where that kid was shouting crap about how no one respects Britney or something stupid like that."
Sorry I'm not up to date on irrelevant youtube videoes.
#47 Posted by Vance Astro (90727 posts) - - Show Bio
@MoonKnightFan123 said:
" Yes I was. But Rob created Deadpool and Cable! Leave him alone! "
That's not really something to be proud of.
Moderator
#48 Posted by MoonKnightFan123 (271 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
" @MoonKnightFan123 said:
" Yes I was. But Rob created Deadpool and Cable! Leave him alone! "
That's not really something to be proud of.
"
Yes it is.
#49 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio

Rob didn't create Cable or Deadpool.  He drew a guy with lines all over his face, pouches all over his costume and a bunch of oversize guns (overcompensating much Rob?) and he drew a guy that was Deathstroke with a with a red and black color scheme.  Later, other writers would give these characters actual personality, Cable much sooner than Deadpool.

#50 Posted by inferiorego (20586 posts) - - Show Bio

I dislike him because he never draws everyone just hanging out, everyone is always in a fighting or sexy stance.

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