My Entries for the Liefeld Hall of Shame

Posted by RazzaTazz (9587 posts) - - Show Bio

I am one of the rare few I think among comic readers that doesen't care much for the art.  It certainly helps things along sometimes from an action standpoint, but all too often it is mostly irrelevant compared to the story (though I find in the cosmic setting its better to have a gifted artist.)  Recently though I have been paying attention to some of the criticism of Rob Liefeld.  Coincidentally I am reading one of the books that is getting canceled in the new 52's second wave "Hawk and Dove."  Though I was aware of the criticism of him before, I had not really noticed anything all that offensive in the first four issues.  Almost as perfect timing though to coincide with the cancellation of this series, this issue had one really bad panel, and then a sequence of panels with a really poorly drawn villain.  Anyway I will show the pictures here with a brief description (and there are spoilers I guess if that really matters.)  
 

The first of these comes from Hank and Dawn needing a moment to discuss things while they are pursuing the villains.  Hank asks Dawn to transform into her human form so that he can relate to her better.  So she does, but I have no idea what article of clothing she is wearing on the top half of her torso.  She apparently has a skin tight shirt or undershirt or backup superhero costume  that follows the exact form of every part of her body.  That is some impressive material.  I mean it is not just that it follows some areas like the shoulders, that is easy to do, but it apparently follows the exact curvature of her breasts.  Also while we are on the topic of breasts and granted that Liefeld is not a woman and so he might not consider these things, but that sure looks like she is not wearing a bra at all.  I guess when she changes into Dove that there is one built into her costume?  I sure hope so, because it sure looks like there isn't one here.   
 
The second of these come from when they confront Condor, the main villain.   The idea behind the character is already far too simplistic (more to follow on that I think) but then just because his name is Condor it means he can turn into a gigantic condor.  OK, maybe not the best writing with the conception of the character, but put that together with the bad artwork and it almost made me laugh when I saw the transformed version.  Granted the body here looks all right, or at least as a bird-human hybrid it looks kind of like what I might expect it to, but the head and especially the mouth looks like it was drawn by a five year old.  By the way, birds don't have teeth, and humans don't have that many canines (that being the pointy teeth.)  Where that mouthful of razors comes from is beyond me.  Maybe he is also part velociraptor.    
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#1 Posted by cattlebattle (12693 posts) - - Show Bio

yup, Liefield is terrible 
 
but, without him a lot of memorable characters would not exist so its a double edged sword really

#2 Posted by Jayso4201 (595 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle said:

yup, Liefield is terrible but, without him a lot of memorable characters would not exist so its a double edged sword really

Not as knowledgeable as you folks, so, like who did he create?

#3 Posted by cattlebattle (12693 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jayso4201 said:

@cattlebattle said:

yup, Liefield is terrible but, without him a lot of memorable characters would not exist so its a double edged sword really

Not as knowledgeable as you folks, so, like who did he create?

Cable, Deadpool, Domino Stryfe, Shatterstar..in X-Men lore. Chapel, Overtkill if your into Spawn, Many Image comics characters
#4 Posted by Jayso4201 (595 posts) - - Show Bio

Cool didn't realize that!

#5 Posted by sesquipedalophobe (4701 posts) - - Show Bio
@cattlebattle said:
yup, Liefield is terrible  but, without him a lot of memorable characters would not exist so its a double edged sword really
I remember his style appealing to me when I was ten, and it has improved a bit, but he has to know he must evolve or die.
#6 Posted by redhood21 (814 posts) - - Show Bio

i think they should just let him start his ideas/characters and stop him before its made and hand it over to someone else.

#7 Posted by Daveyo520 (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

Who needs a bra when you have super breasts?

#8 Posted by Renchamp (2351 posts) - - Show Bio

I think any condor would have looked ridiculous as a villain, regardless of who drew it. (Two eyes?) That said, this condor looks like an idiot. A bird idiot. And I have a love/hate relationship with Liefeld. I love his characters but hate his way of portraying them. Cable is my all-time favorite character. He killed people when killing wasn't normal in comics. Liefeld really paved the way for edgier storylines in mainstream comics. Having said that, he can't draw without sparking debate; I'm on the side of him being awful and predictable.

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#9 Posted by Adnan (1037 posts) - - Show Bio

@Daveyo520: lol, I kinda feel a little bad for him, he openly admits how terrible that infamous Cap America pic was and I can only imagine how many fans still laugh at him about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFqXs6vYvO8

Great guy, not-so-great artist, imo...

#10 Posted by Daveyo520 (2447 posts) - - Show Bio
#11 Posted by RedheadedAtrocitus (6885 posts) - - Show Bio

So many people canning Liefeld for why the current Hawk and Dove series was cancelled. From what I have seen (combined with what I have read when I went to confirm this for myself), it was not so much the art that was the weak link but rather Sterling Gates' writing. Yes, I can understand why there can be criticism for Liefeld and his art style, but on the other hand one must take art for what it is and understand that everyone has different tastes, whether anatomical correctness is a factor or not. I enjoy what he does and can find merit in what he draws even when others cannot. As for the Condor bit that does look rather odd yes but hey, its something that is at least intriguing even if we know in the real world birds don't have teeth.

#12 Edited by cosmo111687 (1489 posts) - - Show Bio

To me, the relationships between writer and artist is like the relationship between a lyricist and a musician or the relationship between a screen writer and a director. Sometimes a song might not have the best lyrics, but the music makes up for it. And the mood and tenor of a film can change drastically depending on it's director (for instance, what if Quentin Tarrantino or Wes Anderson directed Casablanca?) So, when it comes to comics, it's important for a project to have the right team-up of writer and artist. The success of Swamp Thing and Animal Man and the failure of Hawk & Dove is proof of that. And yet, DC continues to give Liefeld work in spite of his utter lack skill and vision.

And Condor is basically the Ugly Duckling from Stinky Cheese Man.

#13 Posted by Miss Menace (12222 posts) - - Show Bio

@RazzaTazz: I don't mind much on art in the realm of comics either Razzy, but it does save some stories, or hurt.

#14 Edited by ApatheticAvenger (1636 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle said:

yup, Liefield is terrible but, without him a lot of memorable characters would not exist so its a double edged sword really

Yeah, I always give him the credit for at least creating Deadpool, even though he wouldn't be the character we know and love if not for Joe Kelly.

@Daveyo520 said:

Is that when some dude threw a sketch book at Liefeld and told him he needed to learn how to draw? Yeah, I may dislike Liefeld's art, but that was just too mean-spirited.

#15 Posted by Daveyo520 (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

@ApatheticAvenger: No it was not. I was in line for someone else and he was right there so I took a picture of him.

#16 Posted by ApatheticAvenger (1636 posts) - - Show Bio

@Daveyo520 said:

@ApatheticAvenger: No it was not. I was in line for someone else and he was right there so I took a picture of him.

Gotcha.

#17 Posted by Toddmasters (11 posts) - - Show Bio

Except when art is really bad or really good, I don't really notice it.  Actually for me the art of Batwoman was so good and so "artsy" that it actually distracted me from the story and I couldn't follow what was going on. 

#18 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (5372 posts) - - Show Bio

Art is what brought me to comics in the first place. The pictures are what draw you into the story first, they introduce you to the characters and give you a visual reference. If the art is bad or in Liefelds case HORRIBLE I really don't care about the story.

#19 Posted by CATPANEXE (9368 posts) - - Show Bio

And just being subjective here, not downing nor praising his art either way and as for current events I would only be iterating myself from elsewhere, I feel as if he draws his characters from action figures that were popular right before he came into the fold, specifically Masters Of The Universe and GIJOE. If you look at those figures his physiques are a match, as well of course are the straps and pouches.

#21 Posted by thehummingbird (3378 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly though...I am not even a professional and I know one, even if you are not wearing a bra boobs do not work that way, two, the physical proportions in general and random muscle inserts.....do not exist? I can understand stylized drawings, but it is not stylized in any way that looks appealing or well done just sloppy and a horrid attempt to sexualize a drawing.

#22 Posted by Daveyo520 (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

@thehummingbird: Magic boobs.

#23 Posted by Dernman (14933 posts) - - Show Bio

@Daveyo520 said:

Magic boobs.

Aren't they all? :p

#24 Posted by COBRAMORPH (1554 posts) - - Show Bio

If it wasnt for the slutty boots, I'd say Dove knew she was going into a super-conflict & wore a skin tight top. She has big boobs, & because of the art being 2D I assume he's limited on how one can draw something & still make it look good. So I think the boob problem is just a typical nitpick for the usual women are portrayed wrong nonsense.

What I dont like is his super muscling her.

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