Rick Remender: Why I will stop buying every book he is working on

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#51 Posted by CrimsonAlchemist (409 posts) - - Show Bio

Always thought O'Grady was jerk if you ask me he had it coming but it's a shame what he did to Pat and Eddie he ruined them :(

#52 Posted by ApatheticAvenger (1594 posts) - - Show Bio

Freaking love Remender, Uncanny X-Force and Venom are two of my favorite titles out right now. The Dark Angel Saga is easily one of the best X-Men storylines in recent memory, and I have had very few problems with his characterization. I really couldn't care less what he does to Toxin, and we have yet to really see what will come of O'Grady so I don't think jumping to conclusions does any good (besides, Secret Avengers is the best Avengers title out right now, much better than anything Bendis writes). Also, the dude has made Grant Morrison's Fantomox as awesome as he was in New X-Men. How can you have a problem with that? :P

#53 Posted by hectorsquall (1137 posts) - - Show Bio

@ApatheticAvenger: Yeah, maybe I jumped to conclusions a little too fast about O'Grady but that doesn't change the fact that I really dislike some of the things Remender did and it's become pretty hard for me to enjoy his stories. If it doesn't bother you that's cool, to each his own I guess.

PS: And I agree with you about the The Dark Angel Saga, that's one of my favorite recent X-Men storylines :p

#54 Posted by Lokheit (489 posts) - - Show Bio

What makes him so good is the same that made Kyle and Yost so good: They're not afraid of killing characters, but they know when they have to kill one.
 
Yes, killing a character kills him for the entire 616 continuity, but neither of them have done that in a bad way. Kyle and Yost writed the death of my favourite character, Nightcrawler, and while it saddened me a lot, I LOVED how his death was written because no other writter would've done it better. 
 
And making that bus explode at the x-school? A lot of x-kids dead for shocking value... but it gave a lot of story development. 
 
Rick have killed/dramatically affected some characters now, but for example, I love Archangel evolution after that. The whole "dark side on me" thing was getting too repetitive and it needed to explode at some point as it was really anticipated, and it couldn't explode in a better way than under the hands of Remender. Now Archangel is becoming a nice character, still with the metal wings, quickly regaining intellect and apparently adquiring new powers (and I also like the samll change to his old costume, that white scarf thing and having the metal wings on his normal body makes him different and not so boring as old normal angel). 
 
If it's kill for the sake of kill, no please. But if it's well done, it's well done. I'm sad about Nightcrawler and I wish for his resurrection (though I don't see it happening soon :( ), but his dead had a meaning, it had a reaction on many characters, specially wolverine, and was adequate to his personality. 
 
About O'Grady, I don't know much about him, but it appears like there is still room for him returning, and if not, he died fulfilling his desire to turn into a real hero. Once a hero, that character would become just another ant-man with some funny phrases, but the prove myself as a real hero thing that made him special was gone.

#55 Posted by hectorsquall (1137 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lokheit said:

What makes him so good is the same that made Kyle and Yost so good: They're not afraid of killing characters, but they know when they have to kill one.

I agree that not being afraid of killing characters can make for some interesting stories when it's done right and at the right time. However, a really good writer shouldn't rely only on that or overdo it which is the case with Remender IMO.

Yes, killing a character kills him for the entire 616 continuity, but neither of them have done that in a bad way. Kyle and Yost writed the death of my favourite character, Nightcrawler, and while it saddened me a lot, I LOVED how his death was written because no other writter would've done it better.

o_O

From Next Big Thing Liveblog: Venom

"Beaten to death in a gutter." -Rick Remender on the fate of Pat Mulligan, Toxin's former host. "It took place off panel, but Blackheart killed him to acquire the symbiote."

Yeaaah, right. If this isn't a bad way to do it then I don't know what is...

Gotta agree with you about the death of Nightcrawler though, sad but very well written.

And making that bus explode at the x-school? A lot of x-kids dead for shocking value... but it gave a lot of story development.

Yep.

Rick have killed/dramatically affected some characters now, but for example, I love Archangel evolution after that. The whole "dark side on me" thing was getting too repetitive and it needed to explode at some point as it was really anticipated, and it couldn't explode in a better way than under the hands of Remender. Now Archangel is becoming a nice character, still with the metal wings, quickly regaining intellect and apparently adquiring new powers (and I also like the samll change to his old costume, that white scarf thing and having the metal wings on his normal body makes him different and not so boring as old normal angel).

I wouldn't go as far as saying that Warren was so boring but what Remender did seemed like the next natural step for the character and it was really great. His death was very touching, well written and had a real impact on other characters. It also introduced a new character with a lot of potential so I admit that Remender did it right this time.

If it's kill for the sake of kill, no please. But if it's well done, it's well done. I'm sad about Nightcrawler and I wish for his resurrection (though I don't see it happening soon :( ), but his dead had a meaning, it had a reaction on many characters, specially wolverine, and was adequate to his personality.

Totally agree with this!

About O'Grady, I don't know much about him, but it appears like there is still room for him returning, and if not, he died fulfilling his desire to turn into a real hero. Once a hero, that character would become just another ant-man with some funny phrases, but the prove myself as a real hero thing that made him special was gone.

I really hope he isn't really dead but with the way the story was written, it seems highly unlikely that he managed to survive and if he did it would only confirm that Remender's bad guys were really lame this time.

I don't agree with the rest though, if he really died this way it would only be a cheap death with no lasting consequences on anyone and the character would be quickly forgotten. This supposedly heroic death was more like a way to kill him off without infuriating a lot of people and by doing so it was really an insult to the intelligence of his fans. If all the characters automatically became obsolete and were killed off after accomplishing their main objective then 90% of the Marvel Universe would be dead already...

#56 Posted by Symbiocide (77 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with Circle of Four being a waste. And I agree tremendously on Patrick Mulligan's fate. I would have rather Pat's fate had been left open. Eddie isn't going to stay Toxin forever; he'll either eventually go back to being Venom after a long series of character-status-quo changes, or he'll get yet another symbiote, or he'll just lost Toxin. Pat could have been spared. I would have liked to see the original Toxin somewhere down the road, or at LEAST kill him in an actual comic, where we can read and see it. Well, since it didn't happen in any comicbook form, and was explained to us off-the-table, I wouldn't argue continuity if Pat was brought back...off-panel, non-written deaths don't count. Vague deaths that happen and are alluded to IN A COMIC (like a character his crushed by flaming falling debris, but no one is able to retrieve the body, suggesting that maybe they survived and scuttled off somewhere off-panel)...THAT counts. Just saying "Oh, Debra Whitman? Killed herself...didn't take place in any issue...I just declared it"...that can be easily ignored. I can't quite agree with your feelings towards Eddie as Toxin. There's no telling what hell the Toxin symbiote suffered while Blackheart had it. It could have greatly changed for the worse, forgetting all the positive life-lessons Pat taught it, being forced to turn violent and angry. And since Venom DID try to kill it (twice...back when Eddie was still Venom and in Flash's Venom book), it would naturally regress to a vicious state. That's believable. And Eddie has no control of what he's doing as Toxin, so seeing Eddie regress from being something decent to something crazy again isn't his fault.

Well, I'm not trying to force you to agree with me, just throwing out my thoughts. We do agree on everything else.

#57 Posted by johnkmccubbin91 (3487 posts) - - Show Bio

Uncanny X-Force started good but started to lag so stopped getting it, Venom started great but unfortunately had to cut back so cant judge any further but I HATED his run so far on Secret Avengers

#58 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13612 posts) - - Show Bio

I Have not read any of his stories yet but I want to.i hated o'grady Anyway

#59 Posted by hectorsquall (1137 posts) - - Show Bio

@Symbiocide: Thanks for the reply! :)

And yeah, it sure looks like we agree on a lot of things. I feel the exact same way about Pat, I wish he was still alive but because his death happened off-panel there's still a chance to see him brought back.

As for Toxin and Eddie... I don't know. What you said about the Toxin symbiote makes sense and there's a lot of potential here. If Pat returns, I'm sure it would make for a great and interesting story.

However, I really disliked what happened to Eddie for numerous reasons. If he went crazy again after his bond with Toxin, fine. I could have understood that and even supported the change but that's not what happened. Eddie clearly lost it before his bond with Toxin, when he became this "symbiote hunter". I mean, the guy just saved a whole city and all its inhabitants then suddenly, out of the blue, he declares he knows a secret about the symbiotes and hunts down and murder Scott Washington. Eddie was an anti-hero then, not a villain so it was clearly out of character and not only did he kill a good guy but he did it for nothing because the symbiote survived.

I get that they wanted to "thin the symbiote herd a bit with Eddie Brock's storyline" but by doing so they also killed off Pat Mulligan (a great character that was sadly in comic book limbo) and destroyed all the recent character development of Eddie Brock. I'm sure Remender could have written a better story without destroying these characters and I don't know if any other writer care about them.

#60 Posted by SovereignDivinity (82 posts) - - Show Bio

so true......pslocke sniff fantomex sniff.

#61 Edited by VenomMelendez (407 posts) - - Show Bio

He didn't rob O'Grady of his character development. O'Grady died saving the life of a child. He died a hero. Perfect end for him.

And Eddie Brock was always a homicdal maniac. He was never a hero, he was just crazy enough to thing that he was.

#62 Posted by hectorsquall (1137 posts) - - Show Bio

@VenomMelendez said:

He didn't rob O'Grady of his character development. O'Grady died saving the life of a child. He died a hero. Perfect end for him.

If you liked it then good for you but I'm sure you wouldn't say that if a single writer butchered and killed some of your favorite characters in just a couple of months. I may be a little biased because I really liked O'Grady but he didn't deserve to die now, no matter how heroic this death might seem to some people.

That's not the first time Remender does something like this and it's quite infuriating when it happens again and again. Some of his stories might be great but using the same gimmick too often shows a lack of creativity and a certain level of disrespect towards fans of these characters.

And Eddie Brock was always a homicdal maniac. He was never a hero, he was just crazy enough to thing that he was.
  • Sure he was a homicidal maniac and if you read my previous posts you will see that I clearly acknowledged it.
  • He was never a hero, that's true. Though he should have been considered one after Spider-Island.
  • Yep, he was crazy enough to think he was a hero but the character changed in recent years. Ever since he was separated from the symbiote and became Anti-Venom, he was a damn good anti-hero. An overly brutal and religious one but still an anti-hero who killed criminals and protected the innocents.
#63 Posted by drphilter (104 posts) - - Show Bio

I can appreciate that we all have different opinions, but I must ask.. really?!

First of all I highly recommend reading Last Days of American Crime. Amazing read.

Secondly. To say he doesn't care about the characters is hogwash. Just because he is willing to shake up the status-quo doesn't mean he doesn't carea bout them. He has done things in his self contained series that Marvel would normally build an event around. That to me is AMAZING. Think about AvsX. a whole 12 issue crossover event dedicated essentially to the idea of killing a loved character. Worth it? no. But a single series really causing characters to expand, grow, that's what we should expect from every series.

What's the point in reading a book if you have that subconscious reassurance that no one but the bad guy will die? That's why I stopped reading.

#64 Posted by hectorsquall (1137 posts) - - Show Bio

@drphilter said:

I can appreciate that we all have different opinions, but I must ask.. really?!

I'm glad to hear that and yep, really!!

First of all I highly recommend reading Last Days of American Crime. Amazing read.

Thanks for the recommendation, looks interesting!

*See who's the writer*... I probably won't read it though! ;p

Secondly. To say he doesn't care about the characters is hogwash. Just because he is willing to shake up the status-quo doesn't mean he doesn't carea bout them.

IIRC I said: "Sure, if it's the main characters in his book or if Marvel explicitly tell him to let a character live, no problems. But if it's a secondary character or one with a lot of potential but in comic book limbo, he just doesn't give a damn and kill them off for shock value!" which is true. Heck, he even kills off the main characters if he feels like it!

He has done things in his self contained series that Marvel would normally build an event around. That to me is AMAZING. Think about AvsX. a whole 12 issue crossover event dedicated essentially to the idea of killing a loved character. Worth it? no. But a single series really causing characters to expand, grow, that's what we should expect from every series.

I totally agree with this statement. Although AvX and the whole concept behind it are just pure crap so it's not really a fair comparison.

What's the point in reading a book if you have that subconscious reassurance that no one but the bad guy will die? That's why I stopped reading.

Actually, I have absolutely no problem if a good guy die as long as it doesn't happen too often. In The Walking Dead, I know it's bound to happen but it's an independent comic and even if a great character die we can look past it as long as the story is still good. However, killing off or butchering beloved characters in mainstream comics is another story altogether.

Like everyone else, I am sick of all those characters being killed off and later resurrected just to boost sales, that's a really cheap gimmick IMO. That doesn't mean that I want the writers to systematically kill off every character I care about. If it happens from time to time with lasting consequences, that's cool but with Remender I'm nearly certain to see at least one of my favorite characters bite the dust or being butchered beyond repair. I find it very difficult to enjoy his stories after that.

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