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Fantastic Four #604 - Forever, Part Five Review

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It's the end of 'Forever.' That shouldn't be possible especially since this has been such an amazing arc. Be prepared for some big moments in this issue.

I haven't been this excited for the Fantastic Four in years. This big crazy arc is over and there are plenty of happy and sad moments.

The Good

FANTASTIC FOUR has always been one of my favorite series. The first issue I read was during John Byrne's run (issue #273). Ironically that issue also marked one of his first appearances. The series has had its ups and downs over the years but since Hickman took over with issue #570, we've seen the beginning of an epic new direction. Reading this issue shows you the seeds that Hickman planted nearly three years ago. There has been so many huge happenings and the battle against the Celestials along with Galactus has pushed the story into new boundaries.

With everything at stake, there's always the chance of things going wrong. There is a lot of talk about sacrifice and that's what makes the story great to read and also hard to take in. Hickman takes a bold direction and you have to wonder how he's going to top this adventure next issue.

Having Steve Epting handle the art duties makes this even more spectacular. There's a heavy mood and his art with Paul Mounts somber tones really plays up that feel.

There's a spectacular battle and you'll find yourself cheering and cringing as you turn the page.

The Bad

Heavy action with great art and colors, there's nothing bad here.

The Verdict

It's great when a writer can stay on a title for a while. It's even better when you get to see them take the book in the direction they wanted and tell the stories they have in mind. Nearly all of Hickman's run has maintained a high quality feel and you could see how everything he's done has been leading up to this point. We can look back now at past issues and see how everything happened for a reason. We sometimes see subplots developed that get lost or forgotten but that isn't the case here. Steve Epting's art makes this explosive issue even better by delivering exactly what we want and expect from him. We may not always get to see Epting and Hickman together but when they are, it's a definite treat. Hickman's run just makes me proud to be a fan of the Fantastic Four. I have no idea how he can top this massive story but chances are he's already busily working on the next big adventure.

49 Comments
Posted by CombatSpoon86

Can't wait to read this. Only 6 months left of Hickman run. Love Epting. Wish he was the permanent artist.

Posted by onela

If I've never read Fantastic Four before but would like to start, where should I jump in?

Edited by DATNIGGA

Franklin is so.. Fantastic when he grows up

Posted by CombatSpoon86

@onela: Start at the beginning of F4 570. That's the beginning of Hickman's run of F4. It lasts all the way to issue 588 which is four vols. in trade. Then it starts again in FF vols. Then it goes back F4 600 and then the kids of F4 get the FF book. If you could find it, I would recommend finding F4 Dark reign mini story. Hickman's first ever F4 story.

Posted by onela

@CombatSpoon86: Thanks! :D

Posted by AngeTheDude

@onela: Yes, start with Dark Reign: Fantastic Four and then get the Hickman trades. I'd never read any Fantastic Four before this run and it's blown me away.

Posted by Calix

I never really followed the Fantastic Four until Secret Invasion tie-in's.

I knew of the characters but where Millar drew me in with the Death of the Invisible Woman. it was Hickman who made me stay, from his first story with Dark Reign I was intrigued. Franklin and Sue were always my favorite FF-members.

The run so far has indeed been one of Marvel Annual Events caliber, or at least what Marvel Annual Events should aim to be.

Posted by CitizenBane

"To me, my Galactus!". Awesome sauce.

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Posted by RoboShark

I just can't get into a 4 book.

Posted by Night Thrasher

@CitizenBane said:

"To me, my Galactus!". Awesome sauce.

My favorite part...*giggling like a lil school girl*

Edited by JonesDeini

@Night Thrasher said:

@CitizenBane said:

"To me, my Galactus!". Awesome sauce.

My favorite part...*giggling like a lil school girl*

When that happened I smiled like an idiot and yelled outloud "$hi7 just got REAL!!!" much to the shock of my boy who was driving. If Hickman's run ended right now it would't even be fair for the next guy. Like they should cancel the book for a 5 year time frame so that people can forget how awesome this story was just to give the next writer a fair chance.

Posted by Night Thrasher

@JonesDeini said:

@Night Thrasher said:

@CitizenBane said:

"To me, my Galactus!". Awesome sauce.

My favorite part...*giggling like a lil school girl*

When that happened I smiled like an idiot and yelled outloud "$hi7 just got REAL!!!" much to the shock of my boy who was driving. If Hickman's run ended right now it would't even be fair for the next guy. Like they should cancel the book for a 5 year time frame so that people can forget how awesome this story was just to give the next writer a fair chance.

Definitely the best use of Galactus in years. He beat the crap out of a Celestial, gets handled by a group of them and then is resurrected by Franklin like a herald....just awesome. I don't have words for how great it felt to see Big G used correctly

Posted by jubeiyagyuX

Oh Franklin,why do you make me love you so much!

Posted by Green ankh

I am a big Fantastic Four fan. I too started to read back with John Byrne. I have to say that i am not a big fan of Hickman's run. Honestly i am not likeing the art either. Don't get me wrong the book isn't bad by any means..but im finding it so-so.

Posted by Atary77

I'm not knocking on the book or anything but... I thought Jonny Storm was dead. Is that him or did I miss something?

Posted by Shamelesslysupportinaznballers

@onela said:

If I've never read Fantastic Four before but would like to start, where should I jump in?

I would start w/Mark Millar's run & his 2 trades that are out and then just keep going into Hickman's run. Personally I didn't care for Dark Regin.

Posted by Johnnyjavavee

@Atary77: You missed something. issue 600 explains it.

Posted by DEGRAAF

@JonesDeini said:

@Night Thrasher said:

@CitizenBane said:

"To me, my Galactus!". Awesome sauce.

My favorite part...*giggling like a lil school girl*

When that happened I smiled like an idiot and yelled outloud "$hi7 just got REAL!!!" much to the shock of my boy who was driving. If Hickman's run ended right now it would't even be fair for the next guy. Like they should cancel the book for a 5 year time frame so that people can forget how awesome this story was just to give the next writer a fair chance.

YEah im loving this series and it's going to suck when he leaves. I hope they cover how lil' Franklin feels about seeing himself die and then i want to see Reed try to come up with a way so Franklin doesnt have to sacrifice himself. I like that they are trying to teach him to fly though. I love that whole family

@Atary77 said:

I'm not knocking on the book or anything but... I thought Jonny Storm was dead. Is that him or did I miss something?

yeah you missed something.I cant remember how he came back but i know the ended up gaining control of the wave and has a cosmic rod as well.

@Johnnyjavavee said:

@Atary77: You missed something. issue 600 explains it.

lol man that sucks. I have the issue but i didnt want to break the plastic on it

Posted by pspin

I have a new found respect for Franklin, he is awesome! Verleria... jury is still out.

Got to love the F4, they are the originals and (currently) the best

Posted by Joe Venom

Wow, I should have never doubted Hickman's writing ability, sure it took a long time to get here but that was one heck of an ending!

Posted by JonesDeini

@Joe Venom: Exactly, Hickman's a slow burn writer, but not a single time on his long form stories have I not felt it all lead to a very, very worthy ending.

Posted by TheGodKiller3
Posted by TheGodKiller3

@DEGRAAF said:

YEah im loving this series and it's going to suck when he leaves. I hope they cover how lil' Franklin feels about seeing himself die and then i want to see Reed try to come up with a way so Franklin doesnt have to sacrifice himself. I like that they are trying to teach him to fly though. I love that whole family

He was still standing at the end of it .

Posted by Dernman

A lot of people like to rag on the Fantastic Four as a comic. They feel they are outdated, old, uninteresting and boring . This arc just goes to show you it can still be good.

Posted by royale_with_cheese

I thought Franklin was going to feed Galactus a whole universe? That would have been a f*k me moment. This was good to though.

Edited by DEGRAAF

@TheGodKiller3 said:

@DEGRAAF said:

YEah im loving this series and it's going to suck when he leaves. I hope they cover how lil' Franklin feels about seeing himself die and then i want to see Reed try to come up with a way so Franklin doesnt have to sacrifice himself. I like that they are trying to teach him to fly though. I love that whole family

He was still standing at the end of it .

i thought Galactus was giving them a last showing as a goodbye and thank you. Nathan Richards ( i think that was grandpa's name) said Franklin had to die. I thought he basically fought till he couldnt any more then used the energy lil' franklin gave him and his own energy to raise Galactus again basically becoming Galactus's energy source

@royale_with_cheese said:

I thought Franklin was going to feed Galactus a whole universe? That would have been a f*k me moment. This was good to though.

at first i thought that was what the orb was. I thought it was the little universe Franklin made under his bed sheets right after he got his powers back, basically letting it grow and expand and evolve in that little orb to feed to galactus

Edited by TheGodKiller3

@DEGRAAF said:

@TheGodKiller3 said:

@DEGRAAF said:

YEah im loving this series and it's going to suck when he leaves. I hope they cover how lil' Franklin feels about seeing himself die and then i want to see Reed try to come up with a way so Franklin doesnt have to sacrifice himself. I like that they are trying to teach him to fly though. I love that whole family

He was still standing at the end of it .

i thought Galactus was giving them a last showing as a goodbye and thank you. Nathan Richards ( i think that was grandpa's name) said Franklin had to die. I thought he basically fought till he couldnt any more then used the energy lil' franklin gave him and his own energy to raise Galactus again basically becoming Galactus's energy source

Not really . The adult is set to appear in Fantastic Four # 605(at least that's what the cover indicates) . And no , Nathaniel never said that Franklin was going to die . He said that "look at the one who would sacrifice himself so that we all might live" .The key word here is "would" , not "will" . It simply means that adult Franklin was willing to lay down his life so that his younger version wouldn't have to lose his father at such a young age .

As far as the glowing blue ball goes , since Hickman never specified what it was , and since Franklin has previously shown the ability to create a pocket/baby universe filled with life supporting planets(the same kind that Galactus relishes) , therefore it very well might have been one .

Posted by DEGRAAF

@TheGodKiller3 said:

@DEGRAAF said:

Not really . The adult is set to appear in Fantastic Four # 605(at least that's what the cover indicates) . And no , Nathaniel never said that Franklin was going to die . He said that "look at the one who would sacrifice himself so that we all might live" .The key word here is "would" , not "will" . It simply means that adult Franklin was willing to lay down his life so that his younger version wouldn't have to lose his father at such a young age .

As far as the glowing blue ball goes , since Hickman never specified what it was , and since Franklin has previously shown the ability to create a pocket/baby universe filled with life supporting planets(the same kind that Galactus relishes) , therefore it very well might have been one .

Ah see also i misunderstood the last panel shown here. I thought that was Nathaniel and Reed hugging not Franklin and Reed. I loved this issue (as well as Hickman's run) I cant wait for the next issue. Im assuming since they are trying to teach Franklin how to fly that he will be playing a bigger role (hopefully the next writer continues on with it).

I know it wont happen anytime soon and that Franklin should be able to defeat him with ease (if they both have their powers mastered) but i would like to see Franklin face off against Genesis

Edited by TheGodKiller3

@DEGRAAF said:

@TheGodKiller3 said:

@DEGRAAF said:

Not really . The adult is set to appear in Fantastic Four # 605(at least that's what the cover indicates) . And no , Nathaniel never said that Franklin was going to die . He said that "look at the one who would sacrifice himself so that we all might live" .The key word here is "would" , not "will" . It simply means that adult Franklin was willing to lay down his life so that his younger version wouldn't have to lose his father at such a young age .

As far as the glowing blue ball goes , since Hickman never specified what it was , and since Franklin has previously shown the ability to create a pocket/baby universe filled with life supporting planets(the same kind that Galactus relishes) , therefore it very well might have been one .

Ah see also i misunderstood the last panel shown here. I thought that was Nathaniel and Reed hugging not Franklin and Reed. I loved this issue (as well as Hickman's run) I cant wait for the next issue. Im assuming since they are trying to teach Franklin how to fly that he will be playing a bigger role (hopefully the next writer continues on with it).

I know it wont happen anytime soon and that Franklin should be able to defeat him with ease (if they both have their powers mastered) but i would like to see Franklin face off against Genesis

Since Sise-Neg's feats are remaking the 616 universe , I don't know how that one will turn out . You can debate it with others though .

Posted by DEGRAAF

who is Sise-Neg? i've never heard of him or him remaking the 616

Posted by bookerman20

Thank you, Hickman....

I loved this storyline, I'm hooked on the Fantastic Four, again. I hope Spider-Man still continues to be a part of the team, and I can't wait where this takes off next...

Posted by TheGodKiller3

@DEGRAAF said:

who is Sise-Neg? i've never heard of him or him remaking the 616

Sise-Neg is the textual reverse of the word "Genesis" . It was his original name . You're referring to the same Genesis right ?

Posted by DEGRAAF

@TheGodKiller3: idk, i didnt see that name on his page. It is the clone boy Fantomex raise in X-Force. He is the cloned version of Apocolypse

Posted by TheGodKiller3

@DEGRAAF said:

@TheGodKiller3: idk, i didnt see that name on his page. It is the clone boy Fantomex raise in X-Force. He is the cloned version of Apocolypse

I thought that you were talking about the the Genesis from that Dr. Strange comic . He'd probably be a great match for Franklin , and could perhaps even beat him, at least until we get some more feats from the aryan god .

You thought a clone of Apoc, who is little more than an insignificant puppet to the Celestials, could take on the Destroyer of Celestials ? That's incredibly stupid(no offense meant here ).

Edited by TheGodKiller3

Its official , no hero/villain on earth apart from someone possessing the full power of the Phoenix Force , the Infinity Gems or PIS/WIS , is capable of taking on adult Franklin .

Posted by DEGRAAF

@TheGodKiller3 said:

I thought that you were talking about the the Genesis from that Dr. Strange comic . He'd probably be a great match for Franklin , and could perhaps even beat him, at least until we get some more feats from the aryan god .

You thought a clone of Apoc, who is little more than an insignificant puppet to the Celestials, could take on the Destroyer of Celestials ? That's incredibly stupid(no offense meant here ).

none taken i just dont know much about Apocalypse other then he seems to always be a huge threat. Can you post a link to the other guy you were talking about?

@TheGodKiller3 said:

Its official , no hero/villain on earth apart from someone possessing the full power of the Phoenix Force , the Infinity Gems or PIS/WIS , is capable of taking on adult Franklin .

i would agree with that besides his alternate future son Hyperstorm

Edited by TheGodKiller3

@DEGRAAF said:

none taken i just dont know much about Apocalypse other then he seems to always be a huge threat. Can you post a link to the other guy you were talking about?

From our own good ol' vine : http://www.comicvine.com/sise-neg/29-63424/

From Marvel wiki : http://marvel.wikia.com/Sise-Neg

@TheGodKiller3 said:

Its official , no hero/villain on earth apart from someone possessing the full power of the Phoenix Force , the Infinity Gems or PIS/WIS , is capable of taking on adult Franklin .

i would agree with that besides his alternate future son Hyperstorm

Not really . Hyperstorm became the meal of a hungry Galactus . Besides the Franklin who sired him , was from an alternate future , and in all likelihood weaker than the 616 Franklin .

Posted by TheGodKiller3

The Celestials are to Apocalypse, Eternals and the Deviants , essentially gods . That makes Franklin the god killer . And in the most recent fantastic four comic , he killed 3 of them .

I wonder what this means ?

Edited by DEGRAAF

@TheGodKiller3 said:

Not really . Hyperstorm became the meal of a hungry Galactus . Besides the Franklin who sired him , was from an alternate future , and in all likelihood weaker than the 616 Franklin .

I would still say Hyperstorm is the closest human/mutant born with natural abilities able to go toe to toe with 616 Franklin.

@TheGodKiller3 said:

The Celestials are to Apocalypse, Eternals and the Deviants , essentially gods . That makes Franklin the god killer . And in the most recent fantastic four comic , he killed 3 of them .

I wonder what this means ?

lol it should really be more like "god" killer bc i would be interested to see a fully powered Odin vs Adult Franklin. I would still think Franklin would win but i would just like him to face the head god of Asgard or Zeus of Olympia

sise-neg is very powerful, im would probably say he could take Franklin. It would be interesting since one comes from magic and the other has a background more in technology.

Posted by TheGodKiller3

@DEGRAAF said:

@TheGodKiller3 said:

Not really . Hyperstorm became the meal of a hungry Galactus . Besides the Franklin who sired him , was from an alternate future , and in all likelihood weaker than the 616 Franklin .

I would still say Hyperstorm is the closest human/mutant born with natural abilities able to go toe to toe with 616 Franklin.

No . The closest human mutant capable of matching up with him is MJJ or Wanda or Legion . As I mentioned, Hyperstorm ended up becoming Galactus' morsel .

@TheGodKiller3 said:

The Celestials are to Apocalypse, Eternals and the Deviants , essentially gods . That makes Franklin the god killer . And in the most recent fantastic four comic , he killed 3 of them .

I wonder what this means ?

lol it should really be more like "god" killer bc i would be interested to see a fully powered Odin vs Adult Franklin. I would still think Franklin would win but i would just like him to face the head god of Asgard or Zeus of Olympia

"the god killer" and "3" actually refer to something else .

And why would you want to watch an Odin vs Franklin fight , when we all know that the outcome is obvious(unless and until an unofficial retcon is made) ?

Posted by DEGRAAF

@TheGodKiller3: I thought MJJ as well but Wanda is not that powerful without the Life force that was with her when she cause M-Day. Legion is definitely powerful but i would only see him as a true threat to Franklin when he has his mind united

Sise-neg is definitely powerful. I cant believe i have never heard of him before. I would guess he stands the best chance at beating Franklin and it would be great to see those two ght since one bases in magic while the other grew up in technology.

as for why i would want to see that fight even tho the outcome is simple, they had Skaar and Hulk fight and although i knew there was no way writers would allow Skaar to win i was excited for the battle and wanted to see it.

Edited by TheGodKiller3

@DEGRAAF said:

@TheGodKiller3: I thought MJJ as well but Wanda is not that powerful without the Life force that was with her when she cause M-Day. Legion is definitely powerful but i would only see him as a true threat to Franklin when he has his mind united

Sise-neg is definitely powerful. I cant believe i have never heard of him before. I would guess he stands the best chance at beating Franklin and it would be great to see those two ght since one bases in magic while the other grew up in technology.

as for why i would want to see that fight even tho the outcome is simple, they had Skaar and Hulk fight and although i knew there was no way writers would allow Skaar to win i was excited for the battle and wanted to see it.

The Skaar and Hulk fight was a father son fight . It in a way appeased the Hulk fanboys . The Franklin-Odin fight on the other hand will only end up enraging the Thor fanboys . If you don't believe me then go to the comments section of various review boards of Mighty Thor # 6 and see for yourself .

Posted by DEGRAAF

@TheGodKiller3: im not saying i dont believe you but sometimes it would just be nice to see him go up against crazy random opponents

Posted by TheGodKiller3

@DEGRAAF said:

@TheGodKiller3: im not saying i dont believe you but sometimes it would just be nice to see him go up against crazy random opponents

Which is exactly the reason why it would be unwise for Marvel to do such a fight . It was already established that Franklin even as a child has power way beyond the scope of any superhero team on earth(except for the Illuminati who have the IG) .

The Thor movie was a box office hit , both nationally and worldwide . It generated not only a big revenue , but extended the fanbase of the character . The Thor # 300 incident , which happened way back in the 60s or 70s generated outrage from longtime fans . Imagine what the response will be, now that the fanbase is extended, if they show Odin getting beat up by a little boy(even one who has Godlike power) . Thor fanboys will go on a rampage .

Posted by DEGRAAF

@TheGodKiller3: yea and thats the problem with people. My favorite characters are Superman, Nightwing, and Skaar. I can handle all of them getting beat as long as there is a good story and reasoning behind it. People that get upset that their favorite characters lose to another character that is obviously more powerful need to cool down. If Superman would have died and stayed dead after Doomsday i would have been ok with it and im ok if Nightwing loses in well matched fights. I wouldnt be upset if Nightwing lost in a fight to Karate Kid from the Legion of Superheroes. Be get way to bent out of shape when it comes to who their characters can and cant beat.

Posted by TheGodKiller3

@DEGRAAF said:

@TheGodKiller3: yea and thats the problem with people. My favorite characters are Superman, Nightwing, and Skaar. I can handle all of them getting beat as long as there is a good story and reasoning behind it. People that get upset that their favorite characters lose to another character that is obviously more powerful need to cool down. If Superman would have died and stayed dead after Doomsday i would have been ok with it and im ok if Nightwing loses in well matched fights. I wouldnt be upset if Nightwing lost in a fight to Karate Kid from the Legion of Superheroes. Be get way to bent out of shape when it comes to who their characters can and cant beat.

Yeah its a problem with people . The only difference is why would Marvel risk angering or alienating a particular fanbase , and end up cutting down on a MAJOR source of profit , especially during these times of recession ?

Posted by DEGRAAF

@TheGodKiller3 said:

Yeah its a problem with people . The only difference is why would Marvel risk angering or alienating a particular fanbase , and end up cutting down on a MAJOR source of profit , especially during these times of recession ?

im not saying they should im just saying I would like to see it

Posted by bee14ish

Wasn't it implied that Franklin could become an abstract?

Edited by MrAnathema

For all those interested, here are some direct responses from Hickman's formspring account:

Question 1.

Link below:

http://4ms.me/SbOIaO

A formspring user (RogerM616) asks:

"Hi , just wanted to ask that in your recent awesome run in the 604th issue of Fantastic Four, did Galactus opening his palms to reveal adult Franklin Richards signify that Galactus had resurrected the dead adult Franklin ? I am very confused."

And Hickman replied:

"He never died. They just thought he would."

Question 2.

http://4ms.me/NKKpvE

MrAnathema asks:

"Are the Celestials of Earth-4280 equal to their 616 counterparts?"

Jonathan Hickman replied:

"In what way? Power? Sure."

Question 3.

http://4ms.me/NMNuLE

MrAnathema asks:

In F4 # 604, aside from being used to resurrect Galactus, did young Franklin's orb serve an additional purpose of increasing the adult Franklin's power in the fight against the Celestials?

JH replied:

"Future Franklin recharged/resurrected Galactus using all the juice little Franklin had."

Question 4.

http://4ms.me/Qd5mRj

MrAnathema:

Question: Mr Hickman, in F4#603, had the Mad Celestials NOT combined into a super Celestial, do you feel Galactus would have been able to defeat all four (or even three) of them? Thanks for your time and previous responses.

Jonathan Hickman:

Response: No.

So, to sum things up, Franklin was not killed and resurrected by Galactus. He never died in the first place. The Celestials of Earth-4280 are not inferior to their 616 counterparts. Young Franklin's orb was used solely to resurrect/recharge Galactus; adult Franklin was not amped by it. And Galactus would not have been able to defeat the Mad Celestials EVEN if they hadn't merged.

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