Comic Vine Review

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Daredevil #25 Review

5

Has Daredevil met his match in Ikari?

The Good

If you've been following this series from at least its halfway point then you might feel as if this is the moment you have been anticipating. Matt is usually one step ahead of the game and the people around him, but not this time. The culmination of several issues lead up to this moment: the moment where Daredevil questions whether he really is one of a kind, whether he truly is a solid fighter, and whether or not he may have actually met his match. The story opens with Daredevil's interrogation of another character and moves quickly into an introduction to this new adversary. There are certain details (like the robe, for example) that are particularly striking, and very early on readers may definitely get the sense that there is someone else behind all of this from the beginning and that the adversary we see here isn't the one in control. By the time you reach the end of the issue it becomes obvious that here are bigger problems in store for Matt and things will only get worse before they get better, and that's fascinating.

If you are looking for action then look no further than this issue. This comic is absolutely jam-packed with non-stop action that will leave you guessing and rooting for Matt, and this is one of the few times that you may actually find yourself wondering whether or not the character will actually come out alive. The lead up to the final moments of this comic are totally overwhelming in the sense that they will leave you curious, asking yourself whether this is really the end of Matt Murdock and even more interested in the identity of the individual behind his torture. The result is very cool.

Artist Chris Samnee does a phenomenal job with the panel layout of this issue, capturing each and every strike, punch, grip and fighting stance in his panels. The execution of the action scenes in this comic are brilliant in the way that they capture every moment and as a result will really draw you into the story. The result is fantastic. This is an amazing issue.

The Bad

Nothing bad here, this is definitely an issue that long-time readers of this series have been waiting for.

The Verdict

What I like about this series is the fact that Waid keeps you guessing; you never truly know what lies around the next corner with this series and that is something very evident in this particular comic. It is clear that DD may have met his match, but it is also clear that this new adversary (even without saying it explicitly) isn't the mastermind behind manipulating virtually everything in Matt's life as of late. It's interesting to see through the course of several issues the psychological breakdown of Murdock: this isn't just a physical adversary, this is someone who wants to make Matt feel fear. That's what makes this story so different and also so compelling. The art, as usual, is really lovely: Samnee's layouts and pencils really help to draw you into the story. This is a great read and not a bad starting point, although I would recommend picking up the previous few issues to really get a sense of how big Matt's problems really are.

64 Comments
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Edited by Jonny_Anonymous

Gah, is this still going on? Why won't you just leave Waid?

Posted by G_Money_Christmas

No! Waid needs to stay!

Posted by Jonny_Anonymous

No! Waid needs to stay!

Not if I'm ever going to get to read a pulp-noir crime book at Marvel ever again.

Posted by microwave25

@jonny_anonymous said:

Gah, is this still going on? Why won't you just leave Waid?

It's cool you stay way over there, we'll keep Waid right beside us here.

Posted by daredevil21134

@jonny_anonymous said:

Gah, is this still going on? Why won't you just leave Waid?

It's cool you stay way over there, we'll keep Waid right beside us here.

He'll be gone eventually

Online
Edited by daredevil21134

I actually liked this issue.Probably because I love Stick so much

Online
Posted by HollowPrince65

I dunno why people hate on Waids DD. I actually like the departure from the depressing DD for a bit. Too much heaviness can really take you out of the book. Its nice that Waid brings a balance of the light and happy and the dark and serious tones of Matt's world. The man has to be happy sometime. I cannot wait to see who this ninja works for and his end game. I'm sad to see Foggy so sick and I hope to see more Kirsten McDuffie as time goes on. One of my favorite reads on a monthly basis.

Edited by The Mast

I've read Daredevil consistently for 21 years of my 27-year life. Waid is one of the absolute best to ever write this character.

Now, my time does not mean my opinion is fact, because no opinion IS. What it DOES make me is a bit more of an authority than the average guy. Some folks won't like Daredevil unless Bullseye is killing a girlfriend and Matt is crying in every other issue, drawn by Maleev. That is just how it goes. You have to ignore those people.

Mark Waid has given Foggy cancer and put heaps of stress on Daredevil. How is this not "dark"? Does it need to be drawn by Maleev and occur at night, during a rainstorm? Get over it.

I initially thought Bullseye was the guy behind it all, but now I'm thinking of another guy (That's not a spoiler. No main villain is revealed).

Ikari is absolutely amazing. The whole method of, "You've been outmatched. I am your superior and I am not even the dude behind all this." was AMAZING. The costume that alluded to his original one, the robe...GAH! SO amazing. It reminded me of when Bullseye let Daredevil live in the boxing ring just so he'd know that he should've killed him. "We're coming for you. I'm letting you walk away so you have to live with it." It's AMAZING. Stress is a killer, and that's what they're using on Matt. They want to drive Matt to the point where he'd just prefer a bullet...and then let him live. My money is on Bullseye being behind it all, but the wild card is Mr. Fear. Either way...SO excited.

This was all incredible.

Posted by daredevil21134

I dunno why people hate on Waids DD. I actually like the departure from the depressing DD for a bit. Too much heaviness can really take you out of the book. Its nice that Waid brings a balance of the light and happy and the dark and serious tones of Matt's world. The man has to be happy sometime. I cannot wait to see who this ninja works for and his end game. I'm sad to see Foggy so sick and I hope to see more Kirsten McDuffie as time goes on. One of my favorite reads on a monthly basis.

A lot of people like Waid's DD i'm actually in the minority of people who don't like it

Online
Edited by daredevil21134

@the_mast said:

I've read Daredevil consistently for 21 years of my 27-year life. Waid is one of the absolute best to ever write this character.

Now, my time does not mean my opinion is fact, because no opinion IS. What it DOES make me is a bit more of an authority than the average guy. Some folks won't like Daredevil unless Bullseye is killing a girlfriend and Matt is crying in every other issue, drawn by Maleev. That is just how it goes. You have to ignore those people.

Mark Waid has given Foggy cancer and put heaps of stress on Daredevil. How is this not "dark"? Does it need to be drawn by Maleev and occur at night, during a rainstorm? Get over it.

I initially thought Bullseye was the guy behind it all, but now I'm thinking of another guy (That's not a spoiler. No main villain is revealed).

Ikari is absolutely amazing. The whole method of, "You've been outmatched. I am your superior and I am not even the dude behind all this." was AMAZING. The costume that alluded to his original one, the robe...GAH! SO amazing. It reminded me of when Bullseye let Daredevil live in the boxing ring just so he'd know that he should've killed him. "We're coming for you. I'm letting you walk away so you have to live with it." It's AMAZING. Stress is a killer, and that's what they're using on Matt. They want to drive Matt to the point where he'd just prefer a bullet...and then let him live. My money is on Bullseye being behind it all, but the wild card is Mr. Fear. Either way...SO excited.

This was all incredible.

I am also 27 years of age and I have read just about every DD comic ever made and I think Waid is one of the worst ever but that's just my opinion.I guess that gives me more authority than the average guy as well.Me not liking Waid isn't all about the book not being dark.But I don't expect you to understand why some fans can't like something you love because every one is the same right?So we shouldn't state our opinion we should just get over it.

Online
Posted by The Mast

@the_mast said:

I've read Daredevil consistently for 21 years of my 27-year life. Waid is one of the absolute best to ever write this character.

Now, my time does not mean my opinion is fact, because no opinion IS. What it DOES make me is a bit more of an authority than the average guy. Some folks won't like Daredevil unless Bullseye is killing a girlfriend and Matt is crying in every other issue, drawn by Maleev. That is just how it goes. You have to ignore those people.

Mark Waid has given Foggy cancer and put heaps of stress on Daredevil. How is this not "dark"? Does it need to be drawn by Maleev and occur at night, during a rainstorm? Get over it.

I initially thought Bullseye was the guy behind it all, but now I'm thinking of another guy (That's not a spoiler. No main villain is revealed).

Ikari is absolutely amazing. The whole method of, "You've been outmatched. I am your superior and I am not even the dude behind all this." was AMAZING. The costume that alluded to his original one, the robe...GAH! SO amazing. It reminded me of when Bullseye let Daredevil live in the boxing ring just so he'd know that he should've killed him. "We're coming for you. I'm letting you walk away so you have to live with it." It's AMAZING. Stress is a killer, and that's what they're using on Matt. They want to drive Matt to the point where he'd just prefer a bullet...and then let him live. My money is on Bullseye being behind it all, but the wild card is Mr. Fear. Either way...SO excited.

This was all incredible.

I am also 27 years of age and I have read just about every DD comic ever made and I think Waid is one of the worst ever but that's just my opinion.I guess that gives me more authority than the average guy as well.Me not liking Waid isn't all about the book not being dark.But I don't expect you to understand why some fans can't like something you love because every one is the same right?So we shouldn't state our opinion we should just get over it.

"Read just about..."

I own every single one with no reprints. Not to upstage, but it is what it is.

"Now, my time does not mean my opinion is fact, because no opinion IS."

One of my opening lines. Read, please.

If the reason YOU do not like Waid is different to the one I stated, then obviously it's not applicable. If your reasoning is something understandble, then whatever. I disagree, but that's fine. "FANS" don't dislike things for the same reason. My post that you took issue with was mainly addressing the people who whine about the tone and want Waid gone because he's not Bendis, Miller or O'Neil. If that isn't you, then why are you getting upset?

I have no problems with people disliking something I love. I dislike flawed rationale and reasoning. Bashing Waid because he's not writing Daredevil the way YOU like is pure b.s. and nonsense. He is writing extremely well. The way he writes is mechanically and technically brilliant. There are gourmet meals I hate, but they're still made well. People acting like Waid is writing BAD Daredevil comics based on, "I don't like it"? No. That doesn't work.

Daniel Way wrote BAD Deadpool. Not "I don't like it." BAD Deadpool. He ignored everything established and basically disregarded all previous series'. Waid isn't doing that.

I never said everyone is the same or that nobody can have an opinion. I said the opposite. Sit down.

Posted by daredevil21134

@the_mast said:

@daredevil21134 said:

@the_mast said:

I've read Daredevil consistently for 21 years of my 27-year life. Waid is one of the absolute best to ever write this character.

Now, my time does not mean my opinion is fact, because no opinion IS. What it DOES make me is a bit more of an authority than the average guy. Some folks won't like Daredevil unless Bullseye is killing a girlfriend and Matt is crying in every other issue, drawn by Maleev. That is just how it goes. You have to ignore those people.

Mark Waid has given Foggy cancer and put heaps of stress on Daredevil. How is this not "dark"? Does it need to be drawn by Maleev and occur at night, during a rainstorm? Get over it.

I initially thought Bullseye was the guy behind it all, but now I'm thinking of another guy (That's not a spoiler. No main villain is revealed).

Ikari is absolutely amazing. The whole method of, "You've been outmatched. I am your superior and I am not even the dude behind all this." was AMAZING. The costume that alluded to his original one, the robe...GAH! SO amazing. It reminded me of when Bullseye let Daredevil live in the boxing ring just so he'd know that he should've killed him. "We're coming for you. I'm letting you walk away so you have to live with it." It's AMAZING. Stress is a killer, and that's what they're using on Matt. They want to drive Matt to the point where he'd just prefer a bullet...and then let him live. My money is on Bullseye being behind it all, but the wild card is Mr. Fear. Either way...SO excited.

This was all incredible.

I am also 27 years of age and I have read just about every DD comic ever made and I think Waid is one of the worst ever but that's just my opinion.I guess that gives me more authority than the average guy as well.Me not liking Waid isn't all about the book not being dark.But I don't expect you to understand why some fans can't like something you love because every one is the same right?So we shouldn't state our opinion we should just get over it.

"Read just about..."

I own every single one with no reprints. Not to upstage, but it is what it is.

"Now, my time does not mean my opinion is fact, because no opinion IS."

One of my opening lines. Read, please.

If the reason YOU do not like Waid is different to the one I stated, then obviously it's not applicable. If your reasoning is something understandble, then whatever. I disagree, but that's fine. "FANS" don't dislike things for the same reason. My post that you took issue with was mainly addressing the people who whine about the tone and want Waid gone because he's not Bendis, Miller or O'Neil. If that isn't you, then why are you getting upset?

I have no problems with people disliking something I love. I dislike flawed rationale and reasoning. Bashing Waid because he's not writing Daredevil the way YOU like is pure b.s. and nonsense. He is writing extremely well. The way he writes is mechanically and technically brilliant. There are gourmet meals I hate, but they're still made well. People acting like Waid is writing BAD Daredevil comics based on, "I don't like it"? No. That doesn't work.

Daniel Way wrote BAD Deadpool. Not "I don't like it." BAD Deadpool. He ignored everything established and basically disregarded all previous series'. Waid isn't doing that.

I never said everyone is the same or that nobody can have an opinion. I said the opposite. Sit down.

Oh,i'm not upset, not even in the least way lol.I own most of all of them with no reprints as well.And the ones I don't own I've read elsewhere.Sit down,awww an internet bully lol.I'm won't continue this conversation I already said what I had to say.Good night dude

Online
Posted by AmericanWolves02

As someone who is pretty new to Daredevil(I started reading Daredevil in general about a year ago) I'll just throw my two cents in to the Waid yay-or-nay discussion. I've been working my way through Daredevil for a while now and have just gotten into Ann Nocenti's run. I haven't gotten to Bendis or Brubaker yet.

That said my favorite Daredevil stories thus far have been Miller's and I do enjoy a darker tone in Daredevil. So I was a little skeptical when I heard Waid was doing a "light-hearted book" But as I started reading it I started to enjoy it and I realized that it really isn't all that light, and it certainly isn't sunshine and daisies in Matt Murdock's life. I've loved the characterization, I've enjoyed the dialogue, and overall I've just really enjoyed reading it. I've loved Waid's take on Daredevil and Matt Murdock. That's my perspective as someone new to the character.

Now about #25 I thought it was great. I would have liked to see a little more from Foggy but this was more of a straight action piece and the battle between Ikari and Daredevil was great. Can't wait to see where this is going. Speculation as to who the mastermind is? I'll leave that to much better and smarter Daredevil fans(mainly Mark Waid)

Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub

One of the best books out from any company. Waids killin it.

Posted by sparty-dbq

I kinda like how Ikari's outfit is a modified version of Matt's old black-and-yellow garb.

Posted by TheAcidSkull

One of the best comics from marvel now.

Edited by manwithoutshame

This was one of the best issues of the Mark Waid run.

Posted by longbowhunter

We're all pretty jaded when it comes to death and danger in comics. It's not often a mainstream superhero book can put the fear of god into me. This one is definitely an exception. Just like when Bruce first encountered the a Talon, I thought "How can he survive this?"

Posted by Owie

We're all pretty jaded when it comes to death and danger in comics. It's not often a mainstream superhero book can put the fear of god into me. This one is definitely an exception. Just like when Bruce first encountered the a Talon, I thought "How can he survive this?"

Nice comparison.

I thought this was a fantastic fight scene. In some ways I don't really want to believe a no-name guy can be trained to be as good as Daredevil in every way in what must be a few years at most, but still, respect where respect is due. He gave DD one of his best fights ever, and he did it totally legitimately--no tricks, no real prep other than having unexpected powers. Just a straight-up battle.

Edited by G_Money_Christmas

Waid and Bendis have made a character I didn't give two sh*ts about my favorite comic book hero. I've been reading some Miller recently too but out of my whole collection of a modest couple hundred books, Daredevil holds a good 20% of it, that's not including trades. I didn't start reading until issue 18 but I went through and this is one of the few series that I painstakingly found all of the books and now have the entire series in my collection. Waid has made me love Daredevil and I hope when he eventually does go(hopefully now for a long time) we get someone just as capable to continue this series. And this issue was one of my favorites. The action was amazing but I was hoping to find out who the mastermind was. Guess we'll have to wait until next week.

Edited by ScumDestroy

Was not a Waid fan until this Daredevil run. I was crazy stoked just after seeing a new villain for like 4 pages, which doesn't happen often. To get people invested in a new character so fast = good writing. Bendis' current DD limited series is getting killer reviews and is similar (is it?) to the dark Maleev run in the past - maybe you can get your fix there?

Posted by Jonny_Anonymous

@the_mast said:

@daredevil21134 said:

@the_mast said:

I've read Daredevil consistently for 21 years of my 27-year life. Waid is one of the absolute best to ever write this character.

Now, my time does not mean my opinion is fact, because no opinion IS. What it DOES make me is a bit more of an authority than the average guy. Some folks won't like Daredevil unless Bullseye is killing a girlfriend and Matt is crying in every other issue, drawn by Maleev. That is just how it goes. You have to ignore those people.

Mark Waid has given Foggy cancer and put heaps of stress on Daredevil. How is this not "dark"? Does it need to be drawn by Maleev and occur at night, during a rainstorm? Get over it.

I initially thought Bullseye was the guy behind it all, but now I'm thinking of another guy (That's not a spoiler. No main villain is revealed).

Ikari is absolutely amazing. The whole method of, "You've been outmatched. I am your superior and I am not even the dude behind all this." was AMAZING. The costume that alluded to his original one, the robe...GAH! SO amazing. It reminded me of when Bullseye let Daredevil live in the boxing ring just so he'd know that he should've killed him. "We're coming for you. I'm letting you walk away so you have to live with it." It's AMAZING. Stress is a killer, and that's what they're using on Matt. They want to drive Matt to the point where he'd just prefer a bullet...and then let him live. My money is on Bullseye being behind it all, but the wild card is Mr. Fear. Either way...SO excited.

This was all incredible.

I am also 27 years of age and I have read just about every DD comic ever made and I think Waid is one of the worst ever but that's just my opinion.I guess that gives me more authority than the average guy as well.Me not liking Waid isn't all about the book not being dark.But I don't expect you to understand why some fans can't like something you love because every one is the same right?So we shouldn't state our opinion we should just get over it.

"Read just about..."

I own every single one with no reprints. Not to upstage, but it is what it is.

"Now, my time does not mean my opinion is fact, because no opinion IS."

One of my opening lines. Read, please.

If the reason YOU do not like Waid is different to the one I stated, then obviously it's not applicable. If your reasoning is something understandble, then whatever. I disagree, but that's fine. "FANS" don't dislike things for the same reason. My post that you took issue with was mainly addressing the people who whine about the tone and want Waid gone because he's not Bendis, Miller or O'Neil. If that isn't you, then why are you getting upset?

I have no problems with people disliking something I love. I dislike flawed rationale and reasoning. Bashing Waid because he's not writing Daredevil the way YOU like is pure b.s. and nonsense. He is writing extremely well. The way he writes is mechanically and technically brilliant. There are gourmet meals I hate, but they're still made well. People acting like Waid is writing BAD Daredevil comics based on, "I don't like it"? No. That doesn't work.

Daniel Way wrote BAD Deadpool. Not "I don't like it." BAD Deadpool. He ignored everything established and basically disregarded all previous series'. Waid isn't doing that.

I never said everyone is the same or that nobody can have an opinion. I said the opposite. Sit down.

"My collection is bigger than your collection" You say your 27? Dude you sound like a 10yo. You say Waids DD run is mechanically and technically brilliant? Ha so a book filled with jokes about the Kardashians and and plot holes about DD's identity being known not to mention completely ignoring everything from Andy Diggles run is technically brilliant? Well you must just have lower standards than us.

Nothing was cleared up after Shadowland, not the giant tower filled with ninja in the middle of town, not the Snakeroot Clan, not even the possession by the Beast. All of it was ignored so Waid could go about writing his Silver Age fanwank, don't you think that it's completely in Matt's character to tackle all these things head on as they are all his fault, because I do.

That's not even my first problem with this book. Daredevil used to pretty unique, it was the only crime-noir book in the Marvel stable, sure Punisher flirted with that territory now and again but his books never have staying power but now instead of keeping the line more diverse they'v turned it in to a generic run of the mill superhero book, because god knows there isn't enough of those on the shelves already. You say me and DD21134 should sit down? No thanks, I think we'll stand.

Edited by daredevil21134
Online
Edited by JMLG

great issue. so much talk about fear and destroying DD, makes me remember good old Mr. Fear, who promised to return to Matt's life when least expect it.. and thing were doing pretty good for him before all of this

Edited by The Mast

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@daredevil21134 said:

@the_mast said:

I've read Daredevil consistently for 21 years of my 27-year life. Waid is one of the absolute best to ever write this character.

Now, my time does not mean my opinion is fact, because no opinion IS. What it DOES make me is a bit more of an authority than the average guy. Some folks won't like Daredevil unless Bullseye is killing a girlfriend and Matt is crying in every other issue, drawn by Maleev. That is just how it goes. You have to ignore those people.

Mark Waid has given Foggy cancer and put heaps of stress on Daredevil. How is this not "dark"? Does it need to be drawn by Maleev and occur at night, during a rainstorm? Get over it.

I initially thought Bullseye was the guy behind it all, but now I'm thinking of another guy (That's not a spoiler. No main villain is revealed).

Ikari is absolutely amazing. The whole method of, "You've been outmatched. I am your superior and I am not even the dude behind all this." was AMAZING. The costume that alluded to his original one, the robe...GAH! SO amazing. It reminded me of when Bullseye let Daredevil live in the boxing ring just so he'd know that he should've killed him. "We're coming for you. I'm letting you walk away so you have to live with it." It's AMAZING. Stress is a killer, and that's what they're using on Matt. They want to drive Matt to the point where he'd just prefer a bullet...and then let him live. My money is on Bullseye being behind it all, but the wild card is Mr. Fear. Either way...SO excited.

This was all incredible.

I am also 27 years of age and I have read just about every DD comic ever made and I think Waid is one of the worst ever but that's just my opinion.I guess that gives me more authority than the average guy as well.Me not liking Waid isn't all about the book not being dark.But I don't expect you to understand why some fans can't like something you love because every one is the same right?So we shouldn't state our opinion we should just get over it.

"Read just about..."

I own every single one with no reprints. Not to upstage, but it is what it is.

"Now, my time does not mean my opinion is fact, because no opinion IS."

One of my opening lines. Read, please.

If the reason YOU do not like Waid is different to the one I stated, then obviously it's not applicable. If your reasoning is something understandble, then whatever. I disagree, but that's fine. "FANS" don't dislike things for the same reason. My post that you took issue with was mainly addressing the people who whine about the tone and want Waid gone because he's not Bendis, Miller or O'Neil. If that isn't you, then why are you getting upset?

I have no problems with people disliking something I love. I dislike flawed rationale and reasoning. Bashing Waid because he's not writing Daredevil the way YOU like is pure b.s. and nonsense. He is writing extremely well. The way he writes is mechanically and technically brilliant. There are gourmet meals I hate, but they're still made well. People acting like Waid is writing BAD Daredevil comics based on, "I don't like it"? No. That doesn't work.

Daniel Way wrote BAD Deadpool. Not "I don't like it." BAD Deadpool. He ignored everything established and basically disregarded all previous series'. Waid isn't doing that.

I never said everyone is the same or that nobody can have an opinion. I said the opposite. Sit down.

"My collection is bigger than your collection" You say your 27? Dude you sound like a 10yo. You say Waids DD run is mechanically and technically brilliant? Ha so a book filled with jokes about the Kardashians and and plot holes about DD's identity being known not to mention completely ignoring everything from Andy Diggles run is technically brilliant? Well you must just have lower standards than us.

Nothing was cleared up after Shadowland, not the giant tower filled with ninja in the middle of town, not the Snakeroot Clan, not even the possession by the Beast. All of it was ignored so Waid could go about writing his Silver Age fanwank, don't you think that it's completely in Matt's character to tackle all these things head on as they are all his fault, because I do.

That's not even my first problem with this book. Daredevil used to pretty unique, it was the only crime-noir book in the Marvel stable, sure Punisher flirted with that territory now and again but his books never have staying power but now instead of keeping the line more diverse they'v turned it in to a generic run of the mill superhero book, because god knows there isn't enough of those on the shelves already. You say me and DD21134 should sit down? No thanks, I think we'll stand.

I mentioned my collection and he replied. That's all it was. He replied as if it was a challenge and I replied in kind. There's no more to it.

Waid mentioned Shadowland in the first issue. If you feel that this series has been nothing but jokes about the Kardashians and gags, then you have been wishfully seeing what you want to see because that is factually not the case. Simplifying the book into what you WISH it would be, just to satisfy your irrational hatred for what Waid is doing? What are you, 10?

Reborn was the series that dealt with Shadowland and with Matt facing his regrets. Why would Waid start his series off by dealing with the same story? That would be dull, trite and boring. Shadowland happened and, outside of the first issue, was a cataclysmic disaster. It was shoddy and terrible. Reborn didn't do much better, but it became pretty clear that MARVEL wanted to sweep that under the rug. NOT Waid. Waid did mention it. It's a plot point. Matt dealt with his issues during Reborn and came back with a clean slate, not wanting to deal with anything. All despite the fact that Foggy warned him to deal with it head on and not ignore it. Kingpin runs The Hand now, so for Matt to dive right back into that would mean another Matt Vs Kingpin/Ninjas story that we've seen a million times before. Of course, your irrational hatred doesn't allow you to see that.

So, what is your issue with Daredevil then? Because DD21134 clearly backed out due to not having a potent argument. What's yours? "It's not Bendis"? If that's the case, sit down. Daredevil isn't like other superhero books on the shelves. Just because it's MORE like them than it used to be, doesn't mean it's so much like them. A steak is totally different to an apple. An orange is closer to an apple than steak, but it's still entirely different. You have no grounds.

All you two sit there and say is that you dislike Waid. When asked for clarification you simply echo, "OH IT'S JUST JOKES AND IT'S NOT CRIME-NOIR RAINY MALEEV ANYMORE." So what? Sit back down, you've got nothing. Your problem is, "It's not crime-noir anymore." So what? It's not what you want so it's shitty? It doesn't work like that.

You're as bad as Fantastic Four fans who can't get over the Byrne run and criticise everything since. Criticising Waid for not doing Bendis/Miller is like criticising Hickman for not doing Byrne.

Edited by daredevil21134

@the_mast: Oh please dude I never backed out of anything i've had this conversation a thousand times.I just felt that you weren't worth my time.And I was never challenging you either.I have better things to do than to challenge you over who has the most DD comics.

Online
Posted by microwave25

Ye I'm sorry but people who argue that this is just reverted to a generic superhero story are delusional. This is one of the most unique titles on the shelves

The argument that "its not my Daredevil because I've been reading it since he was yellow" is just trash. Get over yourselves and accept that your opinion isn't the only one out there

Edited by Jonny_Anonymous

Ye I'm sorry but people who argue that this is just reverted to a generic superhero story are delusional. This is one of the most unique titles on the shelves

The argument that "its not my Daredevil because I've been reading it since he was yellow" is just trash. Get over yourselves and accept that your opinion isn't the only one out there

You seem slightly confused, what exactly is unique about this book? Also you realise it was the user that likes this book that was saying "I'v read the most so my opinion counts more"

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@daredevil21134 said:

@the_mast said:

I've read Daredevil consistently for 21 years of my 27-year life. Waid is one of the absolute best to ever write this character.

Now, my time does not mean my opinion is fact, because no opinion IS. What it DOES make me is a bit more of an authority than the average guy. Some folks won't like Daredevil unless Bullseye is killing a girlfriend and Matt is crying in every other issue, drawn by Maleev. That is just how it goes. You have to ignore those people.

Mark Waid has given Foggy cancer and put heaps of stress on Daredevil. How is this not "dark"? Does it need to be drawn by Maleev and occur at night, during a rainstorm? Get over it.

I initially thought Bullseye was the guy behind it all, but now I'm thinking of another guy (That's not a spoiler. No main villain is revealed).

Ikari is absolutely amazing. The whole method of, "You've been outmatched. I am your superior and I am not even the dude behind all this." was AMAZING. The costume that alluded to his original one, the robe...GAH! SO amazing. It reminded me of when Bullseye let Daredevil live in the boxing ring just so he'd know that he should've killed him. "We're coming for you. I'm letting you walk away so you have to live with it." It's AMAZING. Stress is a killer, and that's what they're using on Matt. They want to drive Matt to the point where he'd just prefer a bullet...and then let him live. My money is on Bullseye being behind it all, but the wild card is Mr. Fear. Either way...SO excited.

This was all incredible.

I am also 27 years of age and I have read just about every DD comic ever made and I think Waid is one of the worst ever but that's just my opinion.I guess that gives me more authority than the average guy as well.Me not liking Waid isn't all about the book not being dark.But I don't expect you to understand why some fans can't like something you love because every one is the same right?So we shouldn't state our opinion we should just get over it.

"Read just about..."

I own every single one with no reprints. Not to upstage, but it is what it is.

"Now, my time does not mean my opinion is fact, because no opinion IS."

One of my opening lines. Read, please.

If the reason YOU do not like Waid is different to the one I stated, then obviously it's not applicable. If your reasoning is something understandble, then whatever. I disagree, but that's fine. "FANS" don't dislike things for the same reason. My post that you took issue with was mainly addressing the people who whine about the tone and want Waid gone because he's not Bendis, Miller or O'Neil. If that isn't you, then why are you getting upset?

I have no problems with people disliking something I love. I dislike flawed rationale and reasoning. Bashing Waid because he's not writing Daredevil the way YOU like is pure b.s. and nonsense. He is writing extremely well. The way he writes is mechanically and technically brilliant. There are gourmet meals I hate, but they're still made well. People acting like Waid is writing BAD Daredevil comics based on, "I don't like it"? No. That doesn't work.

Daniel Way wrote BAD Deadpool. Not "I don't like it." BAD Deadpool. He ignored everything established and basically disregarded all previous series'. Waid isn't doing that.

I never said everyone is the same or that nobody can have an opinion. I said the opposite. Sit down.

"My collection is bigger than your collection" You say your 27? Dude you sound like a 10yo. You say Waids DD run is mechanically and technically brilliant? Ha so a book filled with jokes about the Kardashians and and plot holes about DD's identity being known not to mention completely ignoring everything from Andy Diggles run is technically brilliant? Well you must just have lower standards than us.

Nothing was cleared up after Shadowland, not the giant tower filled with ninja in the middle of town, not the Snakeroot Clan, not even the possession by the Beast. All of it was ignored so Waid could go about writing his Silver Age fanwank, don't you think that it's completely in Matt's character to tackle all these things head on as they are all his fault, because I do.

That's not even my first problem with this book. Daredevil used to pretty unique, it was the only crime-noir book in the Marvel stable, sure Punisher flirted with that territory now and again but his books never have staying power but now instead of keeping the line more diverse they'v turned it in to a generic run of the mill superhero book, because god knows there isn't enough of those on the shelves already. You say me and DD21134 should sit down? No thanks, I think we'll stand.

I mentioned my collection and he replied. That's all it was. He replied as if it was a challenge and I replied in kind. There's no more to it.

Waid mentioned Shadowland in the first issue. If you feel that this series has been nothing but jokes about the Kardashians and gags, then you have been wishfully seeing what you want to see because that is factually not the case. Simplifying the book into what you WISH it would be, just to satisfy your irrational hatred for what Waid is doing? What are you, 10?

Reborn was the series that dealt with Shadowland and with Matt facing his regrets. Why would Waid start his series off by dealing with the same story? That would be dull, trite and boring. Shadowland happened and, outside of the first issue, was a cataclysmic disaster. It was shoddy and terrible. Reborn didn't do much better, but it became pretty clear that MARVEL wanted to sweep that under the rug. NOT Waid. Waid did mention it. It's a plot point. Matt dealt with his issues during Reborn and came back with a clean slate, not wanting to deal with anything. All despite the fact that Foggy warned him to deal with it head on and not ignore it. Kingpin runs The Hand now, so for Matt to dive right back into that would mean another Matt Vs Kingpin/Ninjas story that we've seen a million times before. Of course, your irrational hatred doesn't allow you to see that.

So, what is your issue with Daredevil then? Because DD21134 clearly backed out due to not having a potent argument. What's yours? "It's not Bendis"? If that's the case, sit down. Daredevil isn't like other superhero books on the shelves. Just because it's MORE like them than it used to be, doesn't mean it's so much like them. A steak is totally different to an apple. An orange is closer to an apple than steak, but it's still entirely different. You have no grounds.

All you two sit there and say is that you dislike Waid. When asked for clarification you simply echo, "OH IT'S JUST JOKES AND IT'S NOT CRIME-NOIR RAINY MALEEV ANYMORE." So what? Sit back down, you've got nothing. Your problem is, "It's not crime-noir anymore." So what? It's not what you want so it's shitty? It doesn't work like that.

You're as bad as Fantastic Four fans who can't get over the Byrne run and criticise everything since. Criticising Waid for not doing Bendis/Miller is like criticising Hickman for not doing Byrne.

You went from "all comic arcs featuring the same bad guy are exactly the same" to "not all super hero comics are the same" logic FTW? You really think I WANT to dislike this book? Really? I'v read most of Waids indy work and I really like all of it (love Insufferable) but this book I hate. Mentioning something isn't the same as actually tieing off huge loose ends and then opening some back up for no reason. Reborn didn't deal with anything, all it did was make Matt want to go back to NY, having Matt going to Japan to take on the Sankeroot Clan and the Beast directly would have been closure, instead we get Matt prancing around in a "I'm not Daredevil" jumper and snogging brides.

Hay you know what the best thing about an opinion is? It doesn't need a leg to stand on. You know fine well why we don't like this book it's been stated a number of times, I am a fan of pulp-crime-noir, this book used to be that and I liked it, now it is not so now I don't like it, it's not a hard concept to grasp and that is exactly how it works. , I see you like food allegory's so hows about this one: you like tomatoes and I don't, want to tell me I'm wrong?

You wan't pepole to ignore our opinions and only listen to your superior opinion, that's fine ignore away, just remember that we hate something that you love and guess what, there's a lot more than just us.

Also stop telling pepole to "sit down" over the internet, nobody stands up while using a lap top.

Edited by The Mast

@jonny_anonymous said:

@microwave25 said:

Ye I'm sorry but people who argue that this is just reverted to a generic superhero story are delusional. This is one of the most unique titles on the shelves

The argument that "its not my Daredevil because I've been reading it since he was yellow" is just trash. Get over yourselves and accept that your opinion isn't the only one out there

You seem slightly confused, what exactly is unique about this book? Also you realise it was the user that likes this book that was saying "I'v read the most so my opinion counts more"

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@daredevil21134 said:

@the_mast said:

I've read Daredevil consistently for 21 years of my 27-year life. Waid is one of the absolute best to ever write this character.

Now, my time does not mean my opinion is fact, because no opinion IS. What it DOES make me is a bit more of an authority than the average guy. Some folks won't like Daredevil unless Bullseye is killing a girlfriend and Matt is crying in every other issue, drawn by Maleev. That is just how it goes. You have to ignore those people.

Mark Waid has given Foggy cancer and put heaps of stress on Daredevil. How is this not "dark"? Does it need to be drawn by Maleev and occur at night, during a rainstorm? Get over it.

I initially thought Bullseye was the guy behind it all, but now I'm thinking of another guy (That's not a spoiler. No main villain is revealed).

Ikari is absolutely amazing. The whole method of, "You've been outmatched. I am your superior and I am not even the dude behind all this." was AMAZING. The costume that alluded to his original one, the robe...GAH! SO amazing. It reminded me of when Bullseye let Daredevil live in the boxing ring just so he'd know that he should've killed him. "We're coming for you. I'm letting you walk away so you have to live with it." It's AMAZING. Stress is a killer, and that's what they're using on Matt. They want to drive Matt to the point where he'd just prefer a bullet...and then let him live. My money is on Bullseye being behind it all, but the wild card is Mr. Fear. Either way...SO excited.

This was all incredible.

I am also 27 years of age and I have read just about every DD comic ever made and I think Waid is one of the worst ever but that's just my opinion.I guess that gives me more authority than the average guy as well.Me not liking Waid isn't all about the book not being dark.But I don't expect you to understand why some fans can't like something you love because every one is the same right?So we shouldn't state our opinion we should just get over it.

"Read just about..."

I own every single one with no reprints. Not to upstage, but it is what it is.

"Now, my time does not mean my opinion is fact, because no opinion IS."

One of my opening lines. Read, please.

If the reason YOU do not like Waid is different to the one I stated, then obviously it's not applicable. If your reasoning is something understandble, then whatever. I disagree, but that's fine. "FANS" don't dislike things for the same reason. My post that you took issue with was mainly addressing the people who whine about the tone and want Waid gone because he's not Bendis, Miller or O'Neil. If that isn't you, then why are you getting upset?

I have no problems with people disliking something I love. I dislike flawed rationale and reasoning. Bashing Waid because he's not writing Daredevil the way YOU like is pure b.s. and nonsense. He is writing extremely well. The way he writes is mechanically and technically brilliant. There are gourmet meals I hate, but they're still made well. People acting like Waid is writing BAD Daredevil comics based on, "I don't like it"? No. That doesn't work.

Daniel Way wrote BAD Deadpool. Not "I don't like it." BAD Deadpool. He ignored everything established and basically disregarded all previous series'. Waid isn't doing that.

I never said everyone is the same or that nobody can have an opinion. I said the opposite. Sit down.

"My collection is bigger than your collection" You say your 27? Dude you sound like a 10yo. You say Waids DD run is mechanically and technically brilliant? Ha so a book filled with jokes about the Kardashians and and plot holes about DD's identity being known not to mention completely ignoring everything from Andy Diggles run is technically brilliant? Well you must just have lower standards than us.

Nothing was cleared up after Shadowland, not the giant tower filled with ninja in the middle of town, not the Snakeroot Clan, not even the possession by the Beast. All of it was ignored so Waid could go about writing his Silver Age fanwank, don't you think that it's completely in Matt's character to tackle all these things head on as they are all his fault, because I do.

That's not even my first problem with this book. Daredevil used to pretty unique, it was the only crime-noir book in the Marvel stable, sure Punisher flirted with that territory now and again but his books never have staying power but now instead of keeping the line more diverse they'v turned it in to a generic run of the mill superhero book, because god knows there isn't enough of those on the shelves already. You say me and DD21134 should sit down? No thanks, I think we'll stand.

I mentioned my collection and he replied. That's all it was. He replied as if it was a challenge and I replied in kind. There's no more to it.

Waid mentioned Shadowland in the first issue. If you feel that this series has been nothing but jokes about the Kardashians and gags, then you have been wishfully seeing what you want to see because that is factually not the case. Simplifying the book into what you WISH it would be, just to satisfy your irrational hatred for what Waid is doing? What are you, 10?

Reborn was the series that dealt with Shadowland and with Matt facing his regrets. Why would Waid start his series off by dealing with the same story? That would be dull, trite and boring. Shadowland happened and, outside of the first issue, was a cataclysmic disaster. It was shoddy and terrible. Reborn didn't do much better, but it became pretty clear that MARVEL wanted to sweep that under the rug. NOT Waid. Waid did mention it. It's a plot point. Matt dealt with his issues during Reborn and came back with a clean slate, not wanting to deal with anything. All despite the fact that Foggy warned him to deal with it head on and not ignore it. Kingpin runs The Hand now, so for Matt to dive right back into that would mean another Matt Vs Kingpin/Ninjas story that we've seen a million times before. Of course, your irrational hatred doesn't allow you to see that.

So, what is your issue with Daredevil then? Because DD21134 clearly backed out due to not having a potent argument. What's yours? "It's not Bendis"? If that's the case, sit down. Daredevil isn't like other superhero books on the shelves. Just because it's MORE like them than it used to be, doesn't mean it's so much like them. A steak is totally different to an apple. An orange is closer to an apple than steak, but it's still entirely different. You have no grounds.

All you two sit there and say is that you dislike Waid. When asked for clarification you simply echo, "OH IT'S JUST JOKES AND IT'S NOT CRIME-NOIR RAINY MALEEV ANYMORE." So what? Sit back down, you've got nothing. Your problem is, "It's not crime-noir anymore." So what? It's not what you want so it's shitty? It doesn't work like that.

You're as bad as Fantastic Four fans who can't get over the Byrne run and criticise everything since. Criticising Waid for not doing Bendis/Miller is like criticising Hickman for not doing Byrne.

You went from "all comic arcs featuring the same bad guy are exactly the same" to "not all super hero comics are the same" logic FTW? You really think I WANT to dislike this book? Really? I'v read most of Waids indy work and I really like all of it (love Insufferable) but this book I hate. Mentioning something isn't the same as actually tieing off huge loose ends and then opening some back up for no reason. Reborn didn't deal with anything, all it did was make Matt want to go back to NY, having Matt going to Japan to take on the Sankeroot Clan and the Beast directly would have been closure, instead we get Matt prancing around in a "I'm not Daredevil" jumper and snogging brides.

Hay you know what the best thing about an opinion is? It doesn't need a leg to stand on. You know fine well why we don't like this book it's been stated a number of times, I am a fan of pulp-crime-noir, this book used to be that and I liked it, now it is not so now I don't like it, it's not a hard concept to grasp and that is exactly how it works. , I see you like food allegory's so hows about this one: you like tomatoes and I don't, want to tell me I'm wrong?

You wan't pepole to ignore our opinions and only listen to your superior opinion, that's fine ignore away, just remember that we hate something that you love and guess what, there's a lot more than just us.

Also stop telling pepole to "sit down" over the internet, nobody stands up while using a lap top.

Quote where I said either of those two initial things. QUOTE. Not, "Well, more or less." Either quote or admit you ballsed up the interpretation of what I said intentionally or otherwise. I said retreading old story ground right after Shadowland would've been boring to me. I also said that just because Daredevil isn't crime-noir, which was VERY different, it doesn't mean it's NO different just because it's now LESS different. I recognise that notion confused you. The notion that something can be varying degrees of different probably is a tough thing to consider.

Are you honestly going to continue this convenient over-simplification of Waid's Daredevil? Waid's Daredevil is no more about him prancing around in a "jumper" and snogging brides than Bendis' Daredevil was him being a whine idiot in the rain. Jokes aside. You know that. So, stop doing it.

Opinions DO actually need a leg to stand on. Facts are truth, but for personal opinions to be taken seriously they must be considered and reasonable. It's the opinion of the Westboro Baptist Church that God allowed the Boston bombings because of their liberal stance on things. Now, whilst nobody can prove God either way, that is an unsustainable opinion because it has absolutely no basis.

Also, stop pushing this idea that I've told people they're wrong for not liking it. I never did that on any level, at any point. I challenged people who don't like it. I'm allowed an opinion on your opinion. What I don't understand is this constant reading and criticising of a book you dislike. I have read Deadpool since the '90s. You know what I did when I stopped liking him? I dropped the book. I didn't keep coming to the review page of issues and a series I didn't like, wishing for the man who many DO like, to stop writing the series. You used to like it, now you don't. So, you keep reading? You have no right to complain. Either you keep buying these books you KNOW you won't like, which is hypocritical and petulant, or you are stealing them to read them and still complaining. The other option is that you aren't reading it at all, and yet you still complain. Either way, you have no legs here. You don't like it. Ok, great. Why are you hear then? I could understand if it was a few issues in and you'd given it a chance.

This is #25. Why are you still here complaining about Waid? He's going nowhere and you don't have to read his work. You choose to or you choose not to. "I HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY WHAT I THINK!" Yes, but if you keep reading something you hate because you wanna bitch, then you HAVE no credibility. Right to speak doesn't bestow credibility upon what you choose to say with that right. Learn that.

THAT is my issue with what you do. You don't like this current series but you read it and still wish for him to be gone. What's the logic there?

I've never said my opinion was superior. Stop putting things into my posts that I've never said just to make up for your lack of an argument. Deal in what I've said or be quiet. Please do not sit there and outright lie and interpret my quotes in the way that would be most convenient for you.

"Also you realise it was the user that likes this book that was saying 'I'v read the most so my opinion counts more'"

I literally have never said, not believed this. Stop making things up. I said having read and owned every single Daredevil issue makes me more of an authority than a lot of others because it does. Not a lot of people have read nor own every issue.

You trust a surgeon's word over a junior intern, do you not? More knowledge of a thing means the person carried more weight when speaking about it than someone with less knowledge. It does not mean opinion is right or wrong. Opinions CAN, however, carry more weight than others. This is fact. Do not sit there trying to make me look evil for saying this simply because you may fall into the lesser category. There are characters, I'm sure, on whom your opinion carries more weight than I due to greater knowledge. Neither are right or wrong in OPINION on the character, but when it comes to knowledge, opinions on things carry more weight when backed by it.

I have NEVER said my opinion is right, or superior, or godly. Stop it. I simply said that unless you have equal or more knowledge on Daredevil, then I will remain someone who has stronger grounds to speak on the character. Not that you can't or are wrong to do so. If that's how you further interpret me, I will take you as willingly doing so and this conversation will cease (Which is what you'll now do to avoid continuing a debate you don't have a case in).

Posted by Jonny_Anonymous

@the_mast said:

I've read Daredevil consistently for 21 years of my 27-year life. Waid is one of the absolute best to ever write this character.

Now, my time does not mean my opinion is fact, because no opinion IS. What it DOES make me is a bit more of an authority than the average guy. Some folks won't like Daredevil unless Bullseye is killing a girlfriend and Matt is crying in every other issue, drawn by Maleev. That is just how it goes. You have to ignore those people.

This is implying that your opinion is has more "authority" than someone that likes rainy Maleev depression as you keep putting it.

Why should I not keep up with the oversimplification? You keep doing it about everything that came before Waid, I'm just imitating my betters is all. It doesn't matter if it's "not about that" it still happens, there are still jokes about the Kardashians, Matt still walks around in a "I'm not Daredevil jumper", Waid clings to to Daredevil/Matt identity jokes like a life raft even though that whole plot was resolved in Brubakers run. All that matters is these things happen in the book and I don't like them.

So what, you want me to justify why I don't like tomatoes now? Facts are facts, opinions are opinions, the only one you have to worry about is that my opinion is I don't like this book and thats a FACT.

So as this is a public forum I am not aloud to post a personal opinion about the books here? How does that even make sense? Why are you being so presumptuous about me continuing to read this book? You say I can't complain if I had only read one issue, you say I can't complain if I have read them all, when exactly is it that I CAN complain then? FYI I don't continue to read the book. You act like I have to earn the right to dislike this book and even then I'm only aloud to voice my opinion as long as it matches yours. Also your acting like I spam the DD review forums with hate and that is factually not true, I barely even comment anymore in general.

Comic books are art in every sense of the word and art is 100% subjective, owning more of them does not make you more of an authority on anything but character history, it in no way makes opinions carry more weight. Science =/= art, being a surgeon is dealing with facts and 100% truths, dealing with art (comic books) is about opinions and preferences.

You can't stop me from coming on here and posting "I don't like this book" any more than I can stop you from posting "This book is great" but the difference is I don't really care, you love this book that's cool man, fill your boots but why are you taking such an interest in me not liking it?

Edited by Donovan Montgomery

Personally there are a few things I didn't enjoy in this issue but overall it was pretty good. Also curious to see who actually is behind all this. @the_mast "I initially thought Bullseye was the guy behind it all, but now I'm thinking of another guy (That's not a spoiler. No main villain is revealed)."

I doubt it's Bullseye and since you've read that much DD you would draw the same conclusion if for only the two most obvious reasons: 1) He's dead (I know, they always come back) and 2) He's not smart enough to think this well in advance.

(I know you said "No main villain is revealed", I even quoted it above ;) , so just throwing it out there.) If it's anyone of his old regulars it's Wilson 'old faithful' Fisk [not a spoiler, just a comment]. Who, as previously mentioned in this thread, is now head of the Hand so this Ikari fits right in.

As an after post, I've been reading since '86 and been back to read a large majority of previous issues, does that put me on your level? (kidding, I had to stop for most of Bendis's run).

BTW @babs; nice review :) Mr. Fear could be another "old favorite" to be behind this.

Edited by The Mast

Jonny, since all you said was, "I don't like it, I'll keep saying I don't.", essentially...I'll assume we're done?

You don't read this series now? So how can you come here saying you don't like a thing you don't read? Do you read movie synopsis and say you don't like it?

Personally there are a few things I didn't enjoy in this issue but overall it was pretty good. Also curious to see who actually is behind all this. @the_mast "I initially thought Bullseye was the guy behind it all, but now I'm thinking of another guy (That's not a spoiler. No main villain is revealed)."

I doubt it's Bullseye and since you've read that much DD you would draw the same conclusion if for only the two most obvious reasons: 1) He's dead (I know, they always come back) and 2) He's not smart enough to think this well in advance.

(I know you said "No main villain is revealed", I even quoted it above ;) , so just throwing it out there.) If it's anyone of his old regulars it's Wilson 'old faithful' Fisk [not a spoiler, just a comment]. Who, as previously mentioned in this thread, is now head of the Hand so this Ikari fits right in.

As an after post, I've been reading since '86 and been back to read a large majority of previous issues, does that put me on your level? (kidding, I had to stop for most of Bendis's run).

BTW @babs; nice review :) Mr. Fear could be another "old favorite" to be behind this.

Way to steal everything I said.

The photos arranged around Daredevil's pic were a target. The metal casing that contained the bad guy was NOT big enough to hold Kingpin. Bullseye is INCREDIBLY smart. YOU should know that since you've read so much Daredevil. Maybe he isn't fit or well enough to take Matt down traditionally and is working on another method this time. He had a lady working with him. That could be Lady Bullseye. More evidence suggests Bullseye than Kingpin.

Posted by Jonny_Anonymous

@the_mast: no but I do watch half a film and think "I don't like this" and turn it off. It's funny because before you where complaining that I was still reading it and now your complaining that I'm not.

Posted by The Mast

@the_mast: no but I do watch half a film and think "I don't like this" and turn it off. It's funny because before you where complaining that I was still reading it and now your complaining that I'm not.

Why are you STILL complaining when you don't read it anymore, then?

Edited by Donovan Montgomery

@the_mast: "Way to steal everything I said." Eh?

It looks big enough to me, and to tall for Bullseye. The question I would have is why Kingpin would be in a container and Bullseye is dead and I really couldn't handle having to drop DD again if anyone brought him back. That aside, I won't spoil any ones fun by trying to pick other foes it might be.

Bullseye may be smart but it's on the fly smart, I don't believe he could pull anything like this off, IF he was still alive. Just for arguments sake, I suppose someone could have dug Bullseye up after his funeral, *The Hand*, but I'm gonna say no.

Re-reading my post I feel an assumption was erroneously {yay spell check ;) } made on my part with this statement ".....since you've read that much DD you would draw the same conclusion.....", I probably should have added ""....DD I would think you would draw a similar...."", sorry for the grammatical error -_-

Well.....I suppose I've rambled on enough for this reply, till next time =D

Edited by Jonny_Anonymous

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast: no but I do watch half a film and think "I don't like this" and turn it off. It's funny because before you where complaining that I was still reading it and now your complaining that I'm not.

Why are you STILL complaining when you don't read it anymore, then?

The same pepole come on here month after month to sing it's praise and thats cool but I can't even come on for one month and say I don't like it, were is the equality in that?

Posted by The Mast

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast: no but I do watch half a film and think "I don't like this" and turn it off. It's funny because before you where complaining that I was still reading it and now your complaining that I'm not.

Why are you STILL complaining when you don't read it anymore, then?

The same pepole come on here month after month to sing it's praise and thats cool but I can't even come on for one month and say I don't like it, were is the equality in that?

If we read it consistently, that's fair.

You DON'T read it anymore, right? So why are you coming on here to complain about a book you don't read/pay for? Where is the sense? What are you complaining about, or for? You don't read it. I don't like Jersey Shore. I don't go on Jersey Shore forums and complain about it.

Posted by Jonny_Anonymous

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast: no but I do watch half a film and think "I don't like this" and turn it off. It's funny because before you where complaining that I was still reading it and now your complaining that I'm not.

Why are you STILL complaining when you don't read it anymore, then?

The same pepole come on here month after month to sing it's praise and thats cool but I can't even come on for one month and say I don't like it, were is the equality in that?

If we read it consistently, that's fair.

You DON'T read it anymore, right? So why are you coming on here to complain about a book you don't read/pay for? Where is the sense? What are you complaining about, or for? You don't read it. I don't like Jersey Shore. I don't go on Jersey Shore forums and complain about it.

If you absolutely loved Jersey Shore and all the characters/pepole in it till like the 3rd season and then it totally changed and you didn't like it anymore you probably would.

Posted by The Mast

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast: no but I do watch half a film and think "I don't like this" and turn it off. It's funny because before you where complaining that I was still reading it and now your complaining that I'm not.

Why are you STILL complaining when you don't read it anymore, then?

The same pepole come on here month after month to sing it's praise and thats cool but I can't even come on for one month and say I don't like it, were is the equality in that?

If we read it consistently, that's fair.

You DON'T read it anymore, right? So why are you coming on here to complain about a book you don't read/pay for? Where is the sense? What are you complaining about, or for? You don't read it. I don't like Jersey Shore. I don't go on Jersey Shore forums and complain about it.

If you absolutely loved Jersey Shore and all the characters/pepole in it till like the 3rd season and then it totally changed and you didn't like it anymore you probably would.

No, I wouldn't.

I would stop giving it any time or attention because that's what keeps these things going. Your stance is illogical. "I don't like nor read this book, but I'm gonna come and complain about it anyway even though I don't read it."

That's logically flawed on about five levels. Not only can you not credibly judge something you aren't experiencing, but you don't read it ANYWAY. Why are you complaining about something that isn't even taking your money? You have no argument.

Edited by Jonny_Anonymous

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast: no but I do watch half a film and think "I don't like this" and turn it off. It's funny because before you where complaining that I was still reading it and now your complaining that I'm not.

Why are you STILL complaining when you don't read it anymore, then?

The same pepole come on here month after month to sing it's praise and thats cool but I can't even come on for one month and say I don't like it, were is the equality in that?

If we read it consistently, that's fair.

You DON'T read it anymore, right? So why are you coming on here to complain about a book you don't read/pay for? Where is the sense? What are you complaining about, or for? You don't read it. I don't like Jersey Shore. I don't go on Jersey Shore forums and complain about it.

If you absolutely loved Jersey Shore and all the characters/pepole in it till like the 3rd season and then it totally changed and you didn't like it anymore you probably would.

No, I wouldn't.

I would stop giving it any time or attention because that's what keeps these things going. Your stance is illogical. "I don't like nor read this book, but I'm gonna come and complain about it anyway even though I don't read it."

That's logically flawed on about five levels. Not only can you not credibly judge something you aren't experiencing, but you don't read it ANYWAY. Why are you complaining about something that isn't even taking your money? You have no argument.

I have no argument because I'm not arguing about anything, you where bitching because you thought I was still reading it and your bitching now that you know I'm not, it grates you that I don't share your opinion so you just cant let it lie, it's pretty sad. It does baffle me why you are so obsessed with this.

Edited by The Mast

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast: no but I do watch half a film and think "I don't like this" and turn it off. It's funny because before you where complaining that I was still reading it and now your complaining that I'm not.

Why are you STILL complaining when you don't read it anymore, then?

The same pepole come on here month after month to sing it's praise and thats cool but I can't even come on for one month and say I don't like it, were is the equality in that?

If we read it consistently, that's fair.

You DON'T read it anymore, right? So why are you coming on here to complain about a book you don't read/pay for? Where is the sense? What are you complaining about, or for? You don't read it. I don't like Jersey Shore. I don't go on Jersey Shore forums and complain about it.

If you absolutely loved Jersey Shore and all the characters/pepole in it till like the 3rd season and then it totally changed and you didn't like it anymore you probably would.

No, I wouldn't.

I would stop giving it any time or attention because that's what keeps these things going. Your stance is illogical. "I don't like nor read this book, but I'm gonna come and complain about it anyway even though I don't read it."

That's logically flawed on about five levels. Not only can you not credibly judge something you aren't experiencing, but you don't read it ANYWAY. Why are you complaining about something that isn't even taking your money? You have no argument.

I have no argument because I'm not arguing about anything, you where bitching because you thought I was still reading it and your bitching now that you know I'm not, it grates you that I don't share your opinion so you just cant let it lie, it's pretty sad. It does baffle me why you are so obsessed with this.

No, no, no. Don't resort to personal insult and telling me what I feel and believe. That's not how this works. Have dignity, please.

If you were paying money, that's baffling but at the very least you are experiencing it and paying. You're NOT reading, NOT losing money. Yet, you complain. I have seen ONE installment of The Fast and the Furious. I'm not here complaining about the other four. Why would I? They've taken none of my money, I'm not watching them and I haven't even seen them. Why are YOU doing that with Daredevil?

I don't care if you share my opinion. To each their own. I've said this time and time again. There is no obsession and nothing else like that. Stop trying to turn attention away from me focusing on your reasoning. We'll either talk like adults or we won't talk.

Daredevil ISN'T taking your money. You AREN'T reading it (So you aren't experiencing it). WHY do you complain and what are you complaining about, then? It makes no logical sense. Trying to learn about opposing stances is not obsession, nor sad. I'm working to try understanding you. You're making no sense. You want me to walk away so you don't have to say, "I just like dissing the book."

Posted by Jonny_Anonymous

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast: no but I do watch half a film and think "I don't like this" and turn it off. It's funny because before you where complaining that I was still reading it and now your complaining that I'm not.

Why are you STILL complaining when you don't read it anymore, then?

The same pepole come on here month after month to sing it's praise and thats cool but I can't even come on for one month and say I don't like it, were is the equality in that?

If we read it consistently, that's fair.

You DON'T read it anymore, right? So why are you coming on here to complain about a book you don't read/pay for? Where is the sense? What are you complaining about, or for? You don't read it. I don't like Jersey Shore. I don't go on Jersey Shore forums and complain about it.

If you absolutely loved Jersey Shore and all the characters/pepole in it till like the 3rd season and then it totally changed and you didn't like it anymore you probably would.

No, I wouldn't.

I would stop giving it any time or attention because that's what keeps these things going. Your stance is illogical. "I don't like nor read this book, but I'm gonna come and complain about it anyway even though I don't read it."

That's logically flawed on about five levels. Not only can you not credibly judge something you aren't experiencing, but you don't read it ANYWAY. Why are you complaining about something that isn't even taking your money? You have no argument.

I have no argument because I'm not arguing about anything, you where bitching because you thought I was still reading it and your bitching now that you know I'm not, it grates you that I don't share your opinion so you just cant let it lie, it's pretty sad. It does baffle me why you are so obsessed with this.

No, no, no. Don't resort to personal insult and telling me what I feel and believe. That's not how this works. Have dignity, please.

If you were paying money, that's baffling but at the very least you are experiencing it and paying. You're NOT reading, NOT losing money. Yet, you complain. I have seen ONE installment of The Fast and the Furious. I'm not here complaining about the other four. Why would I? They've taken none of my money, I'm not watching them and I haven't even seen them. Why are YOU doing that with Daredevil?

I don't care if you share my opinion. To each their own. I've said this time and time again. There is no obsession and nothing else like that. Stop trying to turn attention away from me focusing on your reasoning. We'll either talk like adults or we won't talk.

Daredevil ISN'T taking your money. You AREN'T reading it (So you aren't experiencing it). WHY do you complain and what are you complaining about, then? It makes no logical sense. Trying to learn about opposing stances is not obsession, nor sad. I'm working to try understanding you. You're making no sense. You want me to walk away so you don't have to say, "I just like dissing the book."

That was not a personal insult, I said the action it's self was sad not you as a person.

It's clearly obvious why I'm complaining, I love the character Daredevil and I loved the series up to this point, I'v tried multiple times to get in to Waids run and each time I throw the book down in disgust. I doesn't matter if I'm not reading it currently, I'v read enough to know that I don't enjoy it and if suddenly Waid has done a 360 a few issues after I dropped it and it's now everything I want in a DD comic then in my eyes it's still not a good book as it took so long in getting there in the first place. I WANT it to be taking my money, I WANT to like it, I WANT to be reading it but I simply can not enjoy it. The same way a huge fan of Batman of the last 10 years would complain if the book reverted back to the campy Golden Age or a huge fan of the Punisher would complain if it was made in to a comedy book. I do not enjoy plain superhero books, I never have. So with such a massive change in tone and style one of my favourite Marvel characters has been taken away from me, now I am no longer able to read it. So I complain, because what else can I do?

Most pepole come on here to praise the book and that's fine, but there is still many pepole who do not like Waids run and I see absolutely no problem in them coming online and saying "actually this book is not universally loved because we don't like it" this does not get to be a forum where only positive comments go unchallenged. If that person disagrees with you, so what? What does it matter? You think this book is the best thing since Gandhi? Well good for you man, I however hate it and you know what, that's fine to.

Posted by The Mast

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast: no but I do watch half a film and think "I don't like this" and turn it off. It's funny because before you where complaining that I was still reading it and now your complaining that I'm not.

Why are you STILL complaining when you don't read it anymore, then?

The same pepole come on here month after month to sing it's praise and thats cool but I can't even come on for one month and say I don't like it, were is the equality in that?

If we read it consistently, that's fair.

You DON'T read it anymore, right? So why are you coming on here to complain about a book you don't read/pay for? Where is the sense? What are you complaining about, or for? You don't read it. I don't like Jersey Shore. I don't go on Jersey Shore forums and complain about it.

If you absolutely loved Jersey Shore and all the characters/pepole in it till like the 3rd season and then it totally changed and you didn't like it anymore you probably would.

No, I wouldn't.

I would stop giving it any time or attention because that's what keeps these things going. Your stance is illogical. "I don't like nor read this book, but I'm gonna come and complain about it anyway even though I don't read it."

That's logically flawed on about five levels. Not only can you not credibly judge something you aren't experiencing, but you don't read it ANYWAY. Why are you complaining about something that isn't even taking your money? You have no argument.

I have no argument because I'm not arguing about anything, you where bitching because you thought I was still reading it and your bitching now that you know I'm not, it grates you that I don't share your opinion so you just cant let it lie, it's pretty sad. It does baffle me why you are so obsessed with this.

No, no, no. Don't resort to personal insult and telling me what I feel and believe. That's not how this works. Have dignity, please.

If you were paying money, that's baffling but at the very least you are experiencing it and paying. You're NOT reading, NOT losing money. Yet, you complain. I have seen ONE installment of The Fast and the Furious. I'm not here complaining about the other four. Why would I? They've taken none of my money, I'm not watching them and I haven't even seen them. Why are YOU doing that with Daredevil?

I don't care if you share my opinion. To each their own. I've said this time and time again. There is no obsession and nothing else like that. Stop trying to turn attention away from me focusing on your reasoning. We'll either talk like adults or we won't talk.

Daredevil ISN'T taking your money. You AREN'T reading it (So you aren't experiencing it). WHY do you complain and what are you complaining about, then? It makes no logical sense. Trying to learn about opposing stances is not obsession, nor sad. I'm working to try understanding you. You're making no sense. You want me to walk away so you don't have to say, "I just like dissing the book."

That was not a personal insult, I said the action it's self was sad not you as a person.

It's clearly obvious why I'm complaining, I love the character Daredevil and I loved the series up to this point, I'v tried multiple times to get in to Waids run and each time I throw the book down in disgust. I doesn't matter if I'm not reading it currently, I'v read enough to know that I don't enjoy it and if suddenly Waid has done a 360 a few issues after I dropped it and it's now everything I want in a DD comic then in my eyes it's still not a good book as it took so long in getting there in the first place. I WANT it to be taking my money, I WANT to like it, I WANT to be reading it but I simply can not enjoy it. The same way a huge fan of Batman of the last 10 years would complain if the book reverted back to the campy Golden Age or a huge fan of the Punisher would complain if it was made in to a comedy book. I do not enjoy plain superhero books, I never have. So with such a massive change in tone and style one of my favourite Marvel characters has been taken away from me, now I am no longer able to read it. So I complain, because what else can I do?

Most pepole come on here to praise the book and that's fine, but there is still many pepole who do not like Waids run and I see absolutely no problem in them coming online and saying "actually this book is not universally loved because we don't like it" this does not get to be a forum where only positive comments go unchallenged. If that person disagrees with you, so what? What does it matter? You think this book is the best thing since Gandhi? Well good for you man, I however hate it and you know what, that's fine to.

"I throw the book down in disgust." THE most over-dramatic thing I think I've read. Sort that out.

Ok, let's clarify certain things before we continue this discussion. When did you stop reading Daredevil? You're NOT reading it, it's NOT taking your money and you DON'T like it. When did you last read it?

If that was a while ago, at the very least more than five issues, WHY are you STILL HERE COMPLAINING? You've stopped reading, so...what do you have to complain about? Why are you coming onto the review for the 25th issue when you haven't read it in however long? If this continued for 200 issues, and you read/bought none of them, would you still be here? Why? If you want the right to complain WITH CREDIBILITY, you need to be paying for this comic. You DON'T pay for it, you DON'T read it. Why should what you say be taken seriously, then?

Do you not understand what I'm trying to get at? I can't say it any more plainly.

Stop telling me shit I've said. I never said it's the best book since Gandhi. I want to know why someone who DOESN'T read it, DOESN'T like it and DOESN'T pay for it is able to expect to be taken seriously. I don't read Justice League. I'm not going on there and bitching about how I dislike it.

Stop banging on about me wanting positives to go unchallenged. If you're paying for and reading this series, and you take issue, fine. You're not, though. So, you're hating this series and you don't even read it. So...what ARE you complaining about? You're challenging shit you haven't even read because you IMAGINE it's bad? How do you even know? YOU DON'T READ IT.

Posted by Jonny_Anonymous

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast: no but I do watch half a film and think "I don't like this" and turn it off. It's funny because before you where complaining that I was still reading it and now your complaining that I'm not.

Why are you STILL complaining when you don't read it anymore, then?

The same pepole come on here month after month to sing it's praise and thats cool but I can't even come on for one month and say I don't like it, were is the equality in that?

If we read it consistently, that's fair.

You DON'T read it anymore, right? So why are you coming on here to complain about a book you don't read/pay for? Where is the sense? What are you complaining about, or for? You don't read it. I don't like Jersey Shore. I don't go on Jersey Shore forums and complain about it.

If you absolutely loved Jersey Shore and all the characters/pepole in it till like the 3rd season and then it totally changed and you didn't like it anymore you probably would.

No, I wouldn't.

I would stop giving it any time or attention because that's what keeps these things going. Your stance is illogical. "I don't like nor read this book, but I'm gonna come and complain about it anyway even though I don't read it."

That's logically flawed on about five levels. Not only can you not credibly judge something you aren't experiencing, but you don't read it ANYWAY. Why are you complaining about something that isn't even taking your money? You have no argument.

I have no argument because I'm not arguing about anything, you where bitching because you thought I was still reading it and your bitching now that you know I'm not, it grates you that I don't share your opinion so you just cant let it lie, it's pretty sad. It does baffle me why you are so obsessed with this.

No, no, no. Don't resort to personal insult and telling me what I feel and believe. That's not how this works. Have dignity, please.

If you were paying money, that's baffling but at the very least you are experiencing it and paying. You're NOT reading, NOT losing money. Yet, you complain. I have seen ONE installment of The Fast and the Furious. I'm not here complaining about the other four. Why would I? They've taken none of my money, I'm not watching them and I haven't even seen them. Why are YOU doing that with Daredevil?

I don't care if you share my opinion. To each their own. I've said this time and time again. There is no obsession and nothing else like that. Stop trying to turn attention away from me focusing on your reasoning. We'll either talk like adults or we won't talk.

Daredevil ISN'T taking your money. You AREN'T reading it (So you aren't experiencing it). WHY do you complain and what are you complaining about, then? It makes no logical sense. Trying to learn about opposing stances is not obsession, nor sad. I'm working to try understanding you. You're making no sense. You want me to walk away so you don't have to say, "I just like dissing the book."

That was not a personal insult, I said the action it's self was sad not you as a person.

It's clearly obvious why I'm complaining, I love the character Daredevil and I loved the series up to this point, I'v tried multiple times to get in to Waids run and each time I throw the book down in disgust. I doesn't matter if I'm not reading it currently, I'v read enough to know that I don't enjoy it and if suddenly Waid has done a 360 a few issues after I dropped it and it's now everything I want in a DD comic then in my eyes it's still not a good book as it took so long in getting there in the first place. I WANT it to be taking my money, I WANT to like it, I WANT to be reading it but I simply can not enjoy it. The same way a huge fan of Batman of the last 10 years would complain if the book reverted back to the campy Golden Age or a huge fan of the Punisher would complain if it was made in to a comedy book. I do not enjoy plain superhero books, I never have. So with such a massive change in tone and style one of my favourite Marvel characters has been taken away from me, now I am no longer able to read it. So I complain, because what else can I do?

Most pepole come on here to praise the book and that's fine, but there is still many pepole who do not like Waids run and I see absolutely no problem in them coming online and saying "actually this book is not universally loved because we don't like it" this does not get to be a forum where only positive comments go unchallenged. If that person disagrees with you, so what? What does it matter? You think this book is the best thing since Gandhi? Well good for you man, I however hate it and you know what, that's fine to.

"I throw the book down in disgust." THE most over-dramatic thing I think I've read. Sort that out.

Ok, let's clarify certain things before we continue this discussion. When did you stop reading Daredevil? You're NOT reading it, it's NOT taking your money and you DON'T like it. When did you last read it?

If that was a while ago, at the very least more than five issues, WHY are you STILL HERE COMPLAINING? You've stopped reading, so...what do you have to complain about? Why are you coming onto the review for the 25th issue when you haven't read it in however long? If this continued for 200 issues, and you read/bought none of them, would you still be here? Why? If you want the right to complain WITH CREDIBILITY, you need to be paying for this comic. You DON'T pay for it, you DON'T read it. Why should what you say be taken seriously, then?

Do you not understand what I'm trying to get at? I can't say it any more plainly.

Stop telling me shit I've said. I never said it's the best book since Gandhi. I want to know why someone who DOESN'T read it, DOESN'T like it and DOESN'T pay for it is able to expect to be taken seriously. I don't read Justice League. I'm not going on there and bitching about how I dislike it.

Stop banging on about me wanting positives to go unchallenged. If you're paying for and reading this series, and you take issue, fine. You're not, though. So, you're hating this series and you don't even read it. So...what ARE you complaining about? You're challenging shit you haven't even read because you IMAGINE it's bad? How do you even know? YOU DON'T READ IT.

"Sort it out"? No I don't think I will, if you don't like what I write stop reading it and quit pestering me.

I quit reading the book at #10.1. I'm still here because you keep responding to my god damn comments, if you hadn't then I would have posted my one or two comments and left.

I honestly don't care if you think my opinion is "credible" or not, literally couldn't care less. I'v explained to you numerous times now why I don't like the book and why I say I don't like the book but now it's starting to to feel like I'm in the biggest most redundant merry-go-round on the Vine

You bitch that when you think I'm reading it, you still bitch when you know I'm not, is there anything I could have said that would have just stopped you bitching?

I never said you you thought the book was better than Gandhi, It was a generalization to the fans of Waids run but that clearly went over your head

This is a comic book site for pepole to post there opinions on comic books and I'll continue you to do it whether it makes you cry or not.

If you watch half a move, decide it's crap and walk out, are you then aloud to tell your friends that said movie is crap when/if it's brought up in converstation? Yes, you absolutely are.

Edited by The Mast

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast: no but I do watch half a film and think "I don't like this" and turn it off. It's funny because before you where complaining that I was still reading it and now your complaining that I'm not.

Why are you STILL complaining when you don't read it anymore, then?

The same pepole come on here month after month to sing it's praise and thats cool but I can't even come on for one month and say I don't like it, were is the equality in that?

If we read it consistently, that's fair.

You DON'T read it anymore, right? So why are you coming on here to complain about a book you don't read/pay for? Where is the sense? What are you complaining about, or for? You don't read it. I don't like Jersey Shore. I don't go on Jersey Shore forums and complain about it.

If you absolutely loved Jersey Shore and all the characters/pepole in it till like the 3rd season and then it totally changed and you didn't like it anymore you probably would.

No, I wouldn't.

I would stop giving it any time or attention because that's what keeps these things going. Your stance is illogical. "I don't like nor read this book, but I'm gonna come and complain about it anyway even though I don't read it."

That's logically flawed on about five levels. Not only can you not credibly judge something you aren't experiencing, but you don't read it ANYWAY. Why are you complaining about something that isn't even taking your money? You have no argument.

I have no argument because I'm not arguing about anything, you where bitching because you thought I was still reading it and your bitching now that you know I'm not, it grates you that I don't share your opinion so you just cant let it lie, it's pretty sad. It does baffle me why you are so obsessed with this.

No, no, no. Don't resort to personal insult and telling me what I feel and believe. That's not how this works. Have dignity, please.

If you were paying money, that's baffling but at the very least you are experiencing it and paying. You're NOT reading, NOT losing money. Yet, you complain. I have seen ONE installment of The Fast and the Furious. I'm not here complaining about the other four. Why would I? They've taken none of my money, I'm not watching them and I haven't even seen them. Why are YOU doing that with Daredevil?

I don't care if you share my opinion. To each their own. I've said this time and time again. There is no obsession and nothing else like that. Stop trying to turn attention away from me focusing on your reasoning. We'll either talk like adults or we won't talk.

Daredevil ISN'T taking your money. You AREN'T reading it (So you aren't experiencing it). WHY do you complain and what are you complaining about, then? It makes no logical sense. Trying to learn about opposing stances is not obsession, nor sad. I'm working to try understanding you. You're making no sense. You want me to walk away so you don't have to say, "I just like dissing the book."

That was not a personal insult, I said the action it's self was sad not you as a person.

It's clearly obvious why I'm complaining, I love the character Daredevil and I loved the series up to this point, I'v tried multiple times to get in to Waids run and each time I throw the book down in disgust. I doesn't matter if I'm not reading it currently, I'v read enough to know that I don't enjoy it and if suddenly Waid has done a 360 a few issues after I dropped it and it's now everything I want in a DD comic then in my eyes it's still not a good book as it took so long in getting there in the first place. I WANT it to be taking my money, I WANT to like it, I WANT to be reading it but I simply can not enjoy it. The same way a huge fan of Batman of the last 10 years would complain if the book reverted back to the campy Golden Age or a huge fan of the Punisher would complain if it was made in to a comedy book. I do not enjoy plain superhero books, I never have. So with such a massive change in tone and style one of my favourite Marvel characters has been taken away from me, now I am no longer able to read it. So I complain, because what else can I do?

Most pepole come on here to praise the book and that's fine, but there is still many pepole who do not like Waids run and I see absolutely no problem in them coming online and saying "actually this book is not universally loved because we don't like it" this does not get to be a forum where only positive comments go unchallenged. If that person disagrees with you, so what? What does it matter? You think this book is the best thing since Gandhi? Well good for you man, I however hate it and you know what, that's fine to.

"I throw the book down in disgust." THE most over-dramatic thing I think I've read. Sort that out.

Ok, let's clarify certain things before we continue this discussion. When did you stop reading Daredevil? You're NOT reading it, it's NOT taking your money and you DON'T like it. When did you last read it?

If that was a while ago, at the very least more than five issues, WHY are you STILL HERE COMPLAINING? You've stopped reading, so...what do you have to complain about? Why are you coming onto the review for the 25th issue when you haven't read it in however long? If this continued for 200 issues, and you read/bought none of them, would you still be here? Why? If you want the right to complain WITH CREDIBILITY, you need to be paying for this comic. You DON'T pay for it, you DON'T read it. Why should what you say be taken seriously, then?

Do you not understand what I'm trying to get at? I can't say it any more plainly.

Stop telling me shit I've said. I never said it's the best book since Gandhi. I want to know why someone who DOESN'T read it, DOESN'T like it and DOESN'T pay for it is able to expect to be taken seriously. I don't read Justice League. I'm not going on there and bitching about how I dislike it.

Stop banging on about me wanting positives to go unchallenged. If you're paying for and reading this series, and you take issue, fine. You're not, though. So, you're hating this series and you don't even read it. So...what ARE you complaining about? You're challenging shit you haven't even read because you IMAGINE it's bad? How do you even know? YOU DON'T READ IT.

"Sort it out"? No I don't think I will, if you don't like what I write stop reading it and quit pestering me.

I quit reading the book at #10.1. I'm still here because you keep responding to my god damn comments, if you hadn't then I would have posted my one or two comments and left.

I honestly don't care if you think my opinion is "credible" or not, literally couldn't care less. I'v explained to you numerous times now why I don't like the book and why I say I don't like the book but now it's starting to to feel like I'm in the biggest most redundant merry-go-round on the Vine

You bitch that when you think I'm reading it, you still bitch when you know I'm not, is there anything I could have said that would have just stopped you bitching?

I never said you you thought the book was better than Gandhi, It was a generalization to the fans of Waids run but that clearly went over your head

This is a comic book site for pepole to post there opinions on comic books and I'll continue you to do it whether it makes you cry or not.

If you watch half a move, decide it's crap and walk out, are you then aloud to tell your friends that said movie is crap when/if it's brought up in converstation? Yes, you absolutely are.

You haven't read the book in 15 or so months, then? At least a year. So, why are you commenting on a review of issue #25 and bitching about it? You don't read it. How can you claim to have enough knowledge, experience and grounds to criticise it? You're losing nothing and you don't read it. Answer me that. Why are you still taking the time to diss a book you haven't read or paid for in a year or more?

If you were paying for it and reading it still I would've expressed my confusion, but at least you're putting money where mouth is and criticising that which you know to have read. What you're doing NOW is utterly nonsensical and holds absolutely no weight.

No, you're not. You can tell them the parts YOU saw were crap. You cannot judge that which you have not seen nor read. How can you? Credibly. How can you judge or criticise what you don't know?

You're clutching at straws. Nobody's crying. Chill out. You're getting annoying that I'm exposing you as someone who bitches to bitch. You haven't paid for nor read the book since #10.1, yet you're here complaining about a series you haven't read for a long time. That's abnormal. You have no opinion on anything after that issue. How can you have? You can't have a credible opinion on something you haven't read. I don't read Red Hood and the Outlaws. Can I credibly go to the forum and diss it? No.

Edited by Jonny_Anonymous

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast: no but I do watch half a film and think "I don't like this" and turn it off. It's funny because before you where complaining that I was still reading it and now your complaining that I'm not.

Why are you STILL complaining when you don't read it anymore, then?

The same pepole come on here month after month to sing it's praise and thats cool but I can't even come on for one month and say I don't like it, were is the equality in that?

If we read it consistently, that's fair.

You DON'T read it anymore, right? So why are you coming on here to complain about a book you don't read/pay for? Where is the sense? What are you complaining about, or for? You don't read it. I don't like Jersey Shore. I don't go on Jersey Shore forums and complain about it.

If you absolutely loved Jersey Shore and all the characters/pepole in it till like the 3rd season and then it totally changed and you didn't like it anymore you probably would.

No, I wouldn't.

I would stop giving it any time or attention because that's what keeps these things going. Your stance is illogical. "I don't like nor read this book, but I'm gonna come and complain about it anyway even though I don't read it."

That's logically flawed on about five levels. Not only can you not credibly judge something you aren't experiencing, but you don't read it ANYWAY. Why are you complaining about something that isn't even taking your money? You have no argument.

I have no argument because I'm not arguing about anything, you where bitching because you thought I was still reading it and your bitching now that you know I'm not, it grates you that I don't share your opinion so you just cant let it lie, it's pretty sad. It does baffle me why you are so obsessed with this.

No, no, no. Don't resort to personal insult and telling me what I feel and believe. That's not how this works. Have dignity, please.

If you were paying money, that's baffling but at the very least you are experiencing it and paying. You're NOT reading, NOT losing money. Yet, you complain. I have seen ONE installment of The Fast and the Furious. I'm not here complaining about the other four. Why would I? They've taken none of my money, I'm not watching them and I haven't even seen them. Why are YOU doing that with Daredevil?

I don't care if you share my opinion. To each their own. I've said this time and time again. There is no obsession and nothing else like that. Stop trying to turn attention away from me focusing on your reasoning. We'll either talk like adults or we won't talk.

Daredevil ISN'T taking your money. You AREN'T reading it (So you aren't experiencing it). WHY do you complain and what are you complaining about, then? It makes no logical sense. Trying to learn about opposing stances is not obsession, nor sad. I'm working to try understanding you. You're making no sense. You want me to walk away so you don't have to say, "I just like dissing the book."

That was not a personal insult, I said the action it's self was sad not you as a person.

It's clearly obvious why I'm complaining, I love the character Daredevil and I loved the series up to this point, I'v tried multiple times to get in to Waids run and each time I throw the book down in disgust. I doesn't matter if I'm not reading it currently, I'v read enough to know that I don't enjoy it and if suddenly Waid has done a 360 a few issues after I dropped it and it's now everything I want in a DD comic then in my eyes it's still not a good book as it took so long in getting there in the first place. I WANT it to be taking my money, I WANT to like it, I WANT to be reading it but I simply can not enjoy it. The same way a huge fan of Batman of the last 10 years would complain if the book reverted back to the campy Golden Age or a huge fan of the Punisher would complain if it was made in to a comedy book. I do not enjoy plain superhero books, I never have. So with such a massive change in tone and style one of my favourite Marvel characters has been taken away from me, now I am no longer able to read it. So I complain, because what else can I do?

Most pepole come on here to praise the book and that's fine, but there is still many pepole who do not like Waids run and I see absolutely no problem in them coming online and saying "actually this book is not universally loved because we don't like it" this does not get to be a forum where only positive comments go unchallenged. If that person disagrees with you, so what? What does it matter? You think this book is the best thing since Gandhi? Well good for you man, I however hate it and you know what, that's fine to.

"I throw the book down in disgust." THE most over-dramatic thing I think I've read. Sort that out.

Ok, let's clarify certain things before we continue this discussion. When did you stop reading Daredevil? You're NOT reading it, it's NOT taking your money and you DON'T like it. When did you last read it?

If that was a while ago, at the very least more than five issues, WHY are you STILL HERE COMPLAINING? You've stopped reading, so...what do you have to complain about? Why are you coming onto the review for the 25th issue when you haven't read it in however long? If this continued for 200 issues, and you read/bought none of them, would you still be here? Why? If you want the right to complain WITH CREDIBILITY, you need to be paying for this comic. You DON'T pay for it, you DON'T read it. Why should what you say be taken seriously, then?

Do you not understand what I'm trying to get at? I can't say it any more plainly.

Stop telling me shit I've said. I never said it's the best book since Gandhi. I want to know why someone who DOESN'T read it, DOESN'T like it and DOESN'T pay for it is able to expect to be taken seriously. I don't read Justice League. I'm not going on there and bitching about how I dislike it.

Stop banging on about me wanting positives to go unchallenged. If you're paying for and reading this series, and you take issue, fine. You're not, though. So, you're hating this series and you don't even read it. So...what ARE you complaining about? You're challenging shit you haven't even read because you IMAGINE it's bad? How do you even know? YOU DON'T READ IT.

"Sort it out"? No I don't think I will, if you don't like what I write stop reading it and quit pestering me.

I quit reading the book at #10.1. I'm still here because you keep responding to my god damn comments, if you hadn't then I would have posted my one or two comments and left.

I honestly don't care if you think my opinion is "credible" or not, literally couldn't care less. I'v explained to you numerous times now why I don't like the book and why I say I don't like the book but now it's starting to to feel like I'm in the biggest most redundant merry-go-round on the Vine

You bitch that when you think I'm reading it, you still bitch when you know I'm not, is there anything I could have said that would have just stopped you bitching?

I never said you you thought the book was better than Gandhi, It was a generalization to the fans of Waids run but that clearly went over your head

This is a comic book site for pepole to post there opinions on comic books and I'll continue you to do it whether it makes you cry or not.

If you watch half a move, decide it's crap and walk out, are you then aloud to tell your friends that said movie is crap when/if it's brought up in converstation? Yes, you absolutely are.

You haven't read the book in 15 or so months, then? At least a year. So, why are you commenting on a review of issue #25 and bitching about it? You don't read it. How can you claim to have enough knowledge, experience and grounds to criticise it? You're losing nothing and you don't read it. Answer me that. Why are you still taking the time to diss a book you haven't read or paid for in a year or more?

If you were paying for it and reading it still I would've expressed my confusion, but at least you're putting money where mouth is and criticising that which you know to have read. What you're doing NOW is utterly nonsensical and holds absolutely no weight.

No, you're not. You can tell them the parts YOU saw were crap. You cannot judge that which you have not seen nor read. How can you? Credibly. How can you judge or criticise what you don't know?

You're clutching at straws. Nobody's crying. Chill out. You're getting annoying that I'm exposing you as someone who bitches to bitch. You haven't paid for nor read the book since #10.1, yet you're here complaining about a series you haven't read for a long time. That's abnormal. You have no opinion on anything after that issue. How can you have? You can't have a credible opinion on something you haven't read. I don't read Red Hood and the Outlaws. Can I credibly go to the forum and diss it? No.

I DONT CARE IF YOU THINK IT'S CREDIBLE. How hard is that to understand? I'm not here to change anybodys minds, I'm here to state what I think and feel about comics.

Did you even read my first comment? I was complaining about the run in general not this single issue. I'v told you in almost every post since you started pissing your pants over this, I'm complaining because I love Daredevil but this is not the Daredevil I love.

Why on earth would I continue to buy a book don't enjoy? Not only is it incredibly moronic but it's actually the problem with comics today.

Seriously what is your actual problem? I don't care if you go spam the the DD thread with with Waid/DD slash-fic, it's your life do what the hell you wan't, in return do me the same courtesy and let me state my opinion of a comic book on a forum about stating opinions about comic books.

Posted by The Mast

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast: no but I do watch half a film and think "I don't like this" and turn it off. It's funny because before you where complaining that I was still reading it and now your complaining that I'm not.

Why are you STILL complaining when you don't read it anymore, then?

The same pepole come on here month after month to sing it's praise and thats cool but I can't even come on for one month and say I don't like it, were is the equality in that?

If we read it consistently, that's fair.

You DON'T read it anymore, right? So why are you coming on here to complain about a book you don't read/pay for? Where is the sense? What are you complaining about, or for? You don't read it. I don't like Jersey Shore. I don't go on Jersey Shore forums and complain about it.

If you absolutely loved Jersey Shore and all the characters/pepole in it till like the 3rd season and then it totally changed and you didn't like it anymore you probably would.

No, I wouldn't.

I would stop giving it any time or attention because that's what keeps these things going. Your stance is illogical. "I don't like nor read this book, but I'm gonna come and complain about it anyway even though I don't read it."

That's logically flawed on about five levels. Not only can you not credibly judge something you aren't experiencing, but you don't read it ANYWAY. Why are you complaining about something that isn't even taking your money? You have no argument.

I have no argument because I'm not arguing about anything, you where bitching because you thought I was still reading it and your bitching now that you know I'm not, it grates you that I don't share your opinion so you just cant let it lie, it's pretty sad. It does baffle me why you are so obsessed with this.

No, no, no. Don't resort to personal insult and telling me what I feel and believe. That's not how this works. Have dignity, please.

If you were paying money, that's baffling but at the very least you are experiencing it and paying. You're NOT reading, NOT losing money. Yet, you complain. I have seen ONE installment of The Fast and the Furious. I'm not here complaining about the other four. Why would I? They've taken none of my money, I'm not watching them and I haven't even seen them. Why are YOU doing that with Daredevil?

I don't care if you share my opinion. To each their own. I've said this time and time again. There is no obsession and nothing else like that. Stop trying to turn attention away from me focusing on your reasoning. We'll either talk like adults or we won't talk.

Daredevil ISN'T taking your money. You AREN'T reading it (So you aren't experiencing it). WHY do you complain and what are you complaining about, then? It makes no logical sense. Trying to learn about opposing stances is not obsession, nor sad. I'm working to try understanding you. You're making no sense. You want me to walk away so you don't have to say, "I just like dissing the book."

That was not a personal insult, I said the action it's self was sad not you as a person.

It's clearly obvious why I'm complaining, I love the character Daredevil and I loved the series up to this point, I'v tried multiple times to get in to Waids run and each time I throw the book down in disgust. I doesn't matter if I'm not reading it currently, I'v read enough to know that I don't enjoy it and if suddenly Waid has done a 360 a few issues after I dropped it and it's now everything I want in a DD comic then in my eyes it's still not a good book as it took so long in getting there in the first place. I WANT it to be taking my money, I WANT to like it, I WANT to be reading it but I simply can not enjoy it. The same way a huge fan of Batman of the last 10 years would complain if the book reverted back to the campy Golden Age or a huge fan of the Punisher would complain if it was made in to a comedy book. I do not enjoy plain superhero books, I never have. So with such a massive change in tone and style one of my favourite Marvel characters has been taken away from me, now I am no longer able to read it. So I complain, because what else can I do?

Most pepole come on here to praise the book and that's fine, but there is still many pepole who do not like Waids run and I see absolutely no problem in them coming online and saying "actually this book is not universally loved because we don't like it" this does not get to be a forum where only positive comments go unchallenged. If that person disagrees with you, so what? What does it matter? You think this book is the best thing since Gandhi? Well good for you man, I however hate it and you know what, that's fine to.

"I throw the book down in disgust." THE most over-dramatic thing I think I've read. Sort that out.

Ok, let's clarify certain things before we continue this discussion. When did you stop reading Daredevil? You're NOT reading it, it's NOT taking your money and you DON'T like it. When did you last read it?

If that was a while ago, at the very least more than five issues, WHY are you STILL HERE COMPLAINING? You've stopped reading, so...what do you have to complain about? Why are you coming onto the review for the 25th issue when you haven't read it in however long? If this continued for 200 issues, and you read/bought none of them, would you still be here? Why? If you want the right to complain WITH CREDIBILITY, you need to be paying for this comic. You DON'T pay for it, you DON'T read it. Why should what you say be taken seriously, then?

Do you not understand what I'm trying to get at? I can't say it any more plainly.

Stop telling me shit I've said. I never said it's the best book since Gandhi. I want to know why someone who DOESN'T read it, DOESN'T like it and DOESN'T pay for it is able to expect to be taken seriously. I don't read Justice League. I'm not going on there and bitching about how I dislike it.

Stop banging on about me wanting positives to go unchallenged. If you're paying for and reading this series, and you take issue, fine. You're not, though. So, you're hating this series and you don't even read it. So...what ARE you complaining about? You're challenging shit you haven't even read because you IMAGINE it's bad? How do you even know? YOU DON'T READ IT.

"Sort it out"? No I don't think I will, if you don't like what I write stop reading it and quit pestering me.

I quit reading the book at #10.1. I'm still here because you keep responding to my god damn comments, if you hadn't then I would have posted my one or two comments and left.

I honestly don't care if you think my opinion is "credible" or not, literally couldn't care less. I'v explained to you numerous times now why I don't like the book and why I say I don't like the book but now it's starting to to feel like I'm in the biggest most redundant merry-go-round on the Vine

You bitch that when you think I'm reading it, you still bitch when you know I'm not, is there anything I could have said that would have just stopped you bitching?

I never said you you thought the book was better than Gandhi, It was a generalization to the fans of Waids run but that clearly went over your head

This is a comic book site for pepole to post there opinions on comic books and I'll continue you to do it whether it makes you cry or not.

If you watch half a move, decide it's crap and walk out, are you then aloud to tell your friends that said movie is crap when/if it's brought up in converstation? Yes, you absolutely are.

You haven't read the book in 15 or so months, then? At least a year. So, why are you commenting on a review of issue #25 and bitching about it? You don't read it. How can you claim to have enough knowledge, experience and grounds to criticise it? You're losing nothing and you don't read it. Answer me that. Why are you still taking the time to diss a book you haven't read or paid for in a year or more?

If you were paying for it and reading it still I would've expressed my confusion, but at least you're putting money where mouth is and criticising that which you know to have read. What you're doing NOW is utterly nonsensical and holds absolutely no weight.

No, you're not. You can tell them the parts YOU saw were crap. You cannot judge that which you have not seen nor read. How can you? Credibly. How can you judge or criticise what you don't know?

You're clutching at straws. Nobody's crying. Chill out. You're getting annoying that I'm exposing you as someone who bitches to bitch. You haven't paid for nor read the book since #10.1, yet you're here complaining about a series you haven't read for a long time. That's abnormal. You have no opinion on anything after that issue. How can you have? You can't have a credible opinion on something you haven't read. I don't read Red Hood and the Outlaws. Can I credibly go to the forum and diss it? No.

I DONT CARE IF YOU THINK IT'S CREDIBLE. How hard is that to understand? I'm not here to change anybodys minds, I'm here to state what I think and feel about comics.

Did you even read my first comment? I was complaining about the run in general not this single issue. I'v told you in almost every post since you started pissing your pants over this, I'm complaining because I love Daredevil but this is not the Daredevil I love.

Why on earth would I continue to buy a book don't enjoy? Not only is it incredibly moronic but it's actually the problem with comics today.

Seriously what is your actual problem? I don't care if you go spam the the DD thread with with Waid/DD slash-fic, it's your life do what the hell you wan't, in return do me the same courtesy and let me state my opinion of a comic book on a forum about stating opinions about comic books.

*What you think and feel about a comic series you haven't read in over a year.

How can you complain about his run in GENERAL when you have only read the first 11 issues? There have been as many issues since. You don't know about his "run" in general. You've read under half of it. You are criticising things you literally haven't experienced. You're not understanding why that doesn't work. You're not critiquing the first 10/11 issues. You're criticising the year's-worth of issues since that you haven't paid for or read.

Nobody's pissing their pants. Stop with the imaginary scenarios, it's childish. I'm trying to talk to you like an adult. Respond in kind.

Why are you complaining about that which you cannot know about? That's what I wanna know. You stopped reading this series 15 issues ago. Why are you still complaining when you aren't experiencing it or reading it? You don't know what it's like, you've not read or experienced it. Why are you getting so bent out of shape that I'm trying to learn your reasoning? Is it because the more we get in-depth, the less sense you make?

The second we got down to brass tacks and it became clear you're complaining about a series you haven't read, nor put money toward, for over a YEAR?! You started backing out.

Stop repeating, "I'M STATING MY OPINION!" HOW can you? Your opinion on what? You don't know anything outside of the first 10/11 issues. How can you give your opinion, a damning one at that, on things you haven't paid for or read? Answer me that. "I've read the first half." isn't a fit excuse. That means you can criticise the first half.

You're dissing something you don't know. Explain that. "I've read half of something so I can diss all of it." Is that your logic? I'm asking. Because if so, it holds no weight and you shouldn't be taken seriously.

Edited by Jonny_Anonymous

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@the_mast: no but I do watch half a film and think "I don't like this" and turn it off. It's funny because before you where complaining that I was still reading it and now your complaining that I'm not.

Why are you STILL complaining when you don't read it anymore, then?

The same pepole come on here month after month to sing it's praise and thats cool but I can't even come on for one month and say I don't like it, were is the equality in that?

If we read it consistently, that's fair.

You DON'T read it anymore, right? So why are you coming on here to complain about a book you don't read/pay for? Where is the sense? What are you complaining about, or for? You don't read it. I don't like Jersey Shore. I don't go on Jersey Shore forums and complain about it.

If you absolutely loved Jersey Shore and all the characters/pepole in it till like the 3rd season and then it totally changed and you didn't like it anymore you probably would.

No, I wouldn't.

I would stop giving it any time or attention because that's what keeps these things going. Your stance is illogical. "I don't like nor read this book, but I'm gonna come and complain about it anyway even though I don't read it."

That's logically flawed on about five levels. Not only can you not credibly judge something you aren't experiencing, but you don't read it ANYWAY. Why are you complaining about something that isn't even taking your money? You have no argument.

I have no argument because I'm not arguing about anything, you where bitching because you thought I was still reading it and your bitching now that you know I'm not, it grates you that I don't share your opinion so you just cant let it lie, it's pretty sad. It does baffle me why you are so obsessed with this.

No, no, no. Don't resort to personal insult and telling me what I feel and believe. That's not how this works. Have dignity, please.

If you were paying money, that's baffling but at the very least you are experiencing it and paying. You're NOT reading, NOT losing money. Yet, you complain. I have seen ONE installment of The Fast and the Furious. I'm not here complaining about the other four. Why would I? They've taken none of my money, I'm not watching them and I haven't even seen them. Why are YOU doing that with Daredevil?

I don't care if you share my opinion. To each their own. I've said this time and time again. There is no obsession and nothing else like that. Stop trying to turn attention away from me focusing on your reasoning. We'll either talk like adults or we won't talk.

Daredevil ISN'T taking your money. You AREN'T reading it (So you aren't experiencing it). WHY do you complain and what are you complaining about, then? It makes no logical sense. Trying to learn about opposing stances is not obsession, nor sad. I'm working to try understanding you. You're making no sense. You want me to walk away so you don't have to say, "I just like dissing the book."

That was not a personal insult, I said the action it's self was sad not you as a person.

It's clearly obvious why I'm complaining, I love the character Daredevil and I loved the series up to this point, I'v tried multiple times to get in to Waids run and each time I throw the book down in disgust. I doesn't matter if I'm not reading it currently, I'v read enough to know that I don't enjoy it and if suddenly Waid has done a 360 a few issues after I dropped it and it's now everything I want in a DD comic then in my eyes it's still not a good book as it took so long in getting there in the first place. I WANT it to be taking my money, I WANT to like it, I WANT to be reading it but I simply can not enjoy it. The same way a huge fan of Batman of the last 10 years would complain if the book reverted back to the campy Golden Age or a huge fan of the Punisher would complain if it was made in to a comedy book. I do not enjoy plain superhero books, I never have. So with such a massive change in tone and style one of my favourite Marvel characters has been taken away from me, now I am no longer able to read it. So I complain, because what else can I do?

Most pepole come on here to praise the book and that's fine, but there is still many pepole who do not like Waids run and I see absolutely no problem in them coming online and saying "actually this book is not universally loved because we don't like it" this does not get to be a forum where only positive comments go unchallenged. If that person disagrees with you, so what? What does it matter? You think this book is the best thing since Gandhi? Well good for you man, I however hate it and you know what, that's fine to.

"I throw the book down in disgust." THE most over-dramatic thing I think I've read. Sort that out.

Ok, let's clarify certain things before we continue this discussion. When did you stop reading Daredevil? You're NOT reading it, it's NOT taking your money and you DON'T like it. When did you last read it?

If that was a while ago, at the very least more than five issues, WHY are you STILL HERE COMPLAINING? You've stopped reading, so...what do you have to complain about? Why are you coming onto the review for the 25th issue when you haven't read it in however long? If this continued for 200 issues, and you read/bought none of them, would you still be here? Why? If you want the right to complain WITH CREDIBILITY, you need to be paying for this comic. You DON'T pay for it, you DON'T read it. Why should what you say be taken seriously, then?

Do you not understand what I'm trying to get at? I can't say it any more plainly.

Stop telling me shit I've said. I never said it's the best book since Gandhi. I want to know why someone who DOESN'T read it, DOESN'T like it and DOESN'T pay for it is able to expect to be taken seriously. I don't read Justice League. I'm not going on there and bitching about how I dislike it.

Stop banging on about me wanting positives to go unchallenged. If you're paying for and reading this series, and you take issue, fine. You're not, though. So, you're hating this series and you don't even read it. So...what ARE you complaining about? You're challenging shit you haven't even read because you IMAGINE it's bad? How do you even know? YOU DON'T READ IT.

"Sort it out"? No I don't think I will, if you don't like what I write stop reading it and quit pestering me.

I quit reading the book at #10.1. I'm still here because you keep responding to my god damn comments, if you hadn't then I would have posted my one or two comments and left.

I honestly don't care if you think my opinion is "credible" or not, literally couldn't care less. I'v explained to you numerous times now why I don't like the book and why I say I don't like the book but now it's starting to to feel like I'm in the biggest most redundant merry-go-round on the Vine

You bitch that when you think I'm reading it, you still bitch when you know I'm not, is there anything I could have said that would have just stopped you bitching?

I never said you you thought the book was better than Gandhi, It was a generalization to the fans of Waids run but that clearly went over your head

This is a comic book site for pepole to post there opinions on comic books and I'll continue you to do it whether it makes you cry or not.

If you watch half a move, decide it's crap and walk out, are you then aloud to tell your friends that said movie is crap when/if it's brought up in converstation? Yes, you absolutely are.

You haven't read the book in 15 or so months, then? At least a year. So, why are you commenting on a review of issue #25 and bitching about it? You don't read it. How can you claim to have enough knowledge, experience and grounds to criticise it? You're losing nothing and you don't read it. Answer me that. Why are you still taking the time to diss a book you haven't read or paid for in a year or more?

If you were paying for it and reading it still I would've expressed my confusion, but at least you're putting money where mouth is and criticising that which you know to have read. What you're doing NOW is utterly nonsensical and holds absolutely no weight.

No, you're not. You can tell them the parts YOU saw were crap. You cannot judge that which you have not seen nor read. How can you? Credibly. How can you judge or criticise what you don't know?

You're clutching at straws. Nobody's crying. Chill out. You're getting annoying that I'm exposing you as someone who bitches to bitch. You haven't paid for nor read the book since #10.1, yet you're here complaining about a series you haven't read for a long time. That's abnormal. You have no opinion on anything after that issue. How can you have? You can't have a credible opinion on something you haven't read. I don't read Red Hood and the Outlaws. Can I credibly go to the forum and diss it? No.

I DONT CARE IF YOU THINK IT'S CREDIBLE. How hard is that to understand? I'm not here to change anybodys minds, I'm here to state what I think and feel about comics.

Did you even read my first comment? I was complaining about the run in general not this single issue. I'v told you in almost every post since you started pissing your pants over this, I'm complaining because I love Daredevil but this is not the Daredevil I love.

Why on earth would I continue to buy a book don't enjoy? Not only is it incredibly moronic but it's actually the problem with comics today.

Seriously what is your actual problem? I don't care if you go spam the the DD thread with with Waid/DD slash-fic, it's your life do what the hell you wan't, in return do me the same courtesy and let me state my opinion of a comic book on a forum about stating opinions about comic books.

*What you think and feel about a comic series you haven't read in over a year.

How can you complain about his run in GENERAL when you have only read the first 11 issues? There have been as many issues since. You don't know about his "run" in general. You've read under half of it. You are criticising things you literally haven't experienced. You're not understanding why that doesn't work. You're not critiquing the first 10/11 issues. You're criticising the year's-worth of issues since that you haven't paid for or read.

Nobody's pissing their pants. Stop with the imaginary scenarios, it's childish. I'm trying to talk to you like an adult. Respond in kind.

Why are you complaining about that which you cannot know about? That's what I wanna know. You stopped reading this series 15 issues ago. Why are you still complaining when you aren't experiencing it or reading it? You don't know what it's like, you've not read or experienced it. Why are you getting so bent out of shape that I'm trying to learn your reasoning? Is it because the more we get in-depth, the less sense you make?

The second we got down to brass tacks and it became clear you're complaining about a series you haven't read, nor put money toward, for over a YEAR?! You started backing out.

Stop repeating, "I'M STATING MY OPINION!" HOW can you? Your opinion on what? You don't know anything outside of the first 10/11 issues. How can you give your opinion, a damning one at that, on things you haven't paid for or read? Answer me that. "I've read the first half." isn't a fit excuse. That means you can criticise the first half.

You're dissing something you don't know. Explain that. "I've read half of something so I can diss all of it." Is that your logic? I'm asking. Because if so, it holds no weight and you shouldn't be taken seriously.

Good god man, we are not in the least getting in depth, all your doing is talking round in circles.

Tell me, in the last 10 issues has Waid taken the book back to the pulp-noir crime genre? Has he finally put to rest "everybody knows I'm Daredevil" plot point (that had already been put to rest) Has he finally wrapped up the events surrounding the Snakeroot Clan and The Beast? Has he stopped with the bad jokes No? Well there you go then.

I don't care if you don't take me seriously, I AM NOT TRYING TO CONVINCE YOU OF ANYTHING.

Edited by daredevil21134
Online
Posted by The Mast

^ He was asking me, not you.

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@the_mast: no but I do watch half a film and think "I don't like this" and turn it off. It's funny because before you where complaining that I was still reading it and now your complaining that I'm not.

Why are you STILL complaining when you don't read it anymore, then?

The same pepole come on here month after month to sing it's praise and thats cool but I can't even come on for one month and say I don't like it, were is the equality in that?

If we read it consistently, that's fair.

You DON'T read it anymore, right? So why are you coming on here to complain about a book you don't read/pay for? Where is the sense? What are you complaining about, or for? You don't read it. I don't like Jersey Shore. I don't go on Jersey Shore forums and complain about it.

If you absolutely loved Jersey Shore and all the characters/pepole in it till like the 3rd season and then it totally changed and you didn't like it anymore you probably would.

No, I wouldn't.

I would stop giving it any time or attention because that's what keeps these things going. Your stance is illogical. "I don't like nor read this book, but I'm gonna come and complain about it anyway even though I don't read it."

That's logically flawed on about five levels. Not only can you not credibly judge something you aren't experiencing, but you don't read it ANYWAY. Why are you complaining about something that isn't even taking your money? You have no argument.

I have no argument because I'm not arguing about anything, you where bitching because you thought I was still reading it and your bitching now that you know I'm not, it grates you that I don't share your opinion so you just cant let it lie, it's pretty sad. It does baffle me why you are so obsessed with this.

No, no, no. Don't resort to personal insult and telling me what I feel and believe. That's not how this works. Have dignity, please.

If you were paying money, that's baffling but at the very least you are experiencing it and paying. You're NOT reading, NOT losing money. Yet, you complain. I have seen ONE installment of The Fast and the Furious. I'm not here complaining about the other four. Why would I? They've taken none of my money, I'm not watching them and I haven't even seen them. Why are YOU doing that with Daredevil?

I don't care if you share my opinion. To each their own. I've said this time and time again. There is no obsession and nothing else like that. Stop trying to turn attention away from me focusing on your reasoning. We'll either talk like adults or we won't talk.

Daredevil ISN'T taking your money. You AREN'T reading it (So you aren't experiencing it). WHY do you complain and what are you complaining about, then? It makes no logical sense. Trying to learn about opposing stances is not obsession, nor sad. I'm working to try understanding you. You're making no sense. You want me to walk away so you don't have to say, "I just like dissing the book."

That was not a personal insult, I said the action it's self was sad not you as a person.

It's clearly obvious why I'm complaining, I love the character Daredevil and I loved the series up to this point, I'v tried multiple times to get in to Waids run and each time I throw the book down in disgust. I doesn't matter if I'm not reading it currently, I'v read enough to know that I don't enjoy it and if suddenly Waid has done a 360 a few issues after I dropped it and it's now everything I want in a DD comic then in my eyes it's still not a good book as it took so long in getting there in the first place. I WANT it to be taking my money, I WANT to like it, I WANT to be reading it but I simply can not enjoy it. The same way a huge fan of Batman of the last 10 years would complain if the book reverted back to the campy Golden Age or a huge fan of the Punisher would complain if it was made in to a comedy book. I do not enjoy plain superhero books, I never have. So with such a massive change in tone and style one of my favourite Marvel characters has been taken away from me, now I am no longer able to read it. So I complain, because what else can I do?

Most pepole come on here to praise the book and that's fine, but there is still many pepole who do not like Waids run and I see absolutely no problem in them coming online and saying "actually this book is not universally loved because we don't like it" this does not get to be a forum where only positive comments go unchallenged. If that person disagrees with you, so what? What does it matter? You think this book is the best thing since Gandhi? Well good for you man, I however hate it and you know what, that's fine to.

"I throw the book down in disgust." THE most over-dramatic thing I think I've read. Sort that out.

Ok, let's clarify certain things before we continue this discussion. When did you stop reading Daredevil? You're NOT reading it, it's NOT taking your money and you DON'T like it. When did you last read it?

If that was a while ago, at the very least more than five issues, WHY are you STILL HERE COMPLAINING? You've stopped reading, so...what do you have to complain about? Why are you coming onto the review for the 25th issue when you haven't read it in however long? If this continued for 200 issues, and you read/bought none of them, would you still be here? Why? If you want the right to complain WITH CREDIBILITY, you need to be paying for this comic. You DON'T pay for it, you DON'T read it. Why should what you say be taken seriously, then?

Do you not understand what I'm trying to get at? I can't say it any more plainly.

Stop telling me shit I've said. I never said it's the best book since Gandhi. I want to know why someone who DOESN'T read it, DOESN'T like it and DOESN'T pay for it is able to expect to be taken seriously. I don't read Justice League. I'm not going on there and bitching about how I dislike it.

Stop banging on about me wanting positives to go unchallenged. If you're paying for and reading this series, and you take issue, fine. You're not, though. So, you're hating this series and you don't even read it. So...what ARE you complaining about? You're challenging shit you haven't even read because you IMAGINE it's bad? How do you even know? YOU DON'T READ IT.

"Sort it out"? No I don't think I will, if you don't like what I write stop reading it and quit pestering me.

I quit reading the book at #10.1. I'm still here because you keep responding to my god damn comments, if you hadn't then I would have posted my one or two comments and left.

I honestly don't care if you think my opinion is "credible" or not, literally couldn't care less. I'v explained to you numerous times now why I don't like the book and why I say I don't like the book but now it's starting to to feel like I'm in the biggest most redundant merry-go-round on the Vine

You bitch that when you think I'm reading it, you still bitch when you know I'm not, is there anything I could have said that would have just stopped you bitching?

I never said you you thought the book was better than Gandhi, It was a generalization to the fans of Waids run but that clearly went over your head

This is a comic book site for pepole to post there opinions on comic books and I'll continue you to do it whether it makes you cry or not.

If you watch half a move, decide it's crap and walk out, are you then aloud to tell your friends that said movie is crap when/if it's brought up in converstation? Yes, you absolutely are.

You haven't read the book in 15 or so months, then? At least a year. So, why are you commenting on a review of issue #25 and bitching about it? You don't read it. How can you claim to have enough knowledge, experience and grounds to criticise it? You're losing nothing and you don't read it. Answer me that. Why are you still taking the time to diss a book you haven't read or paid for in a year or more?

If you were paying for it and reading it still I would've expressed my confusion, but at least you're putting money where mouth is and criticising that which you know to have read. What you're doing NOW is utterly nonsensical and holds absolutely no weight.

No, you're not. You can tell them the parts YOU saw were crap. You cannot judge that which you have not seen nor read. How can you? Credibly. How can you judge or criticise what you don't know?

You're clutching at straws. Nobody's crying. Chill out. You're getting annoying that I'm exposing you as someone who bitches to bitch. You haven't paid for nor read the book since #10.1, yet you're here complaining about a series you haven't read for a long time. That's abnormal. You have no opinion on anything after that issue. How can you have? You can't have a credible opinion on something you haven't read. I don't read Red Hood and the Outlaws. Can I credibly go to the forum and diss it? No.

I DONT CARE IF YOU THINK IT'S CREDIBLE. How hard is that to understand? I'm not here to change anybodys minds, I'm here to state what I think and feel about comics.

Did you even read my first comment? I was complaining about the run in general not this single issue. I'v told you in almost every post since you started pissing your pants over this, I'm complaining because I love Daredevil but this is not the Daredevil I love.

Why on earth would I continue to buy a book don't enjoy? Not only is it incredibly moronic but it's actually the problem with comics today.

Seriously what is your actual problem? I don't care if you go spam the the DD thread with with Waid/DD slash-fic, it's your life do what the hell you wan't, in return do me the same courtesy and let me state my opinion of a comic book on a forum about stating opinions about comic books.

*What you think and feel about a comic series you haven't read in over a year.

How can you complain about his run in GENERAL when you have only read the first 11 issues? There have been as many issues since. You don't know about his "run" in general. You've read under half of it. You are criticising things you literally haven't experienced. You're not understanding why that doesn't work. You're not critiquing the first 10/11 issues. You're criticising the year's-worth of issues since that you haven't paid for or read.

Nobody's pissing their pants. Stop with the imaginary scenarios, it's childish. I'm trying to talk to you like an adult. Respond in kind.

Why are you complaining about that which you cannot know about? That's what I wanna know. You stopped reading this series 15 issues ago. Why are you still complaining when you aren't experiencing it or reading it? You don't know what it's like, you've not read or experienced it. Why are you getting so bent out of shape that I'm trying to learn your reasoning? Is it because the more we get in-depth, the less sense you make?

The second we got down to brass tacks and it became clear you're complaining about a series you haven't read, nor put money toward, for over a YEAR?! You started backing out.

Stop repeating, "I'M STATING MY OPINION!" HOW can you? Your opinion on what? You don't know anything outside of the first 10/11 issues. How can you give your opinion, a damning one at that, on things you haven't paid for or read? Answer me that. "I've read the first half." isn't a fit excuse. That means you can criticise the first half.

You're dissing something you don't know. Explain that. "I've read half of something so I can diss all of it." Is that your logic? I'm asking. Because if so, it holds no weight and you shouldn't be taken seriously.

Good god man, we are not in the least getting in depth, all your doing is talking round in circles.

Tell me, in the last 10 issues has Waid taken the book back to the pulp-noir crime genre? Has he finally put to rest "everybody knows I'm Daredevil" plot point (that had already been put to rest) Has he finally wrapped up the events surrounding the Snakeroot Clan and The Beast? Has he stopped with the bad jokes No? Well there you go then.

I don't care if you don't take me seriously, I AM NOT TRYING TO CONVINCE YOU OF ANYTHING.

Ok, those are your issues and you are entitled to them. "Bad" jokes are not anything I'm reading in the comic. You seem to have a very specific opinion of what Waid is doing right now for someone who hasn't read the series in over a year. That's not accurate and it's not credible. You can't speak on what you don't know. You surely agree to that.

My point is, why are you STILL coming here and complaining? It's 15 or so issues after you dropped the series. You're not putting money toward it, you're not reading it. WHY do you come here to give an opinion on something you have not read or contributed to for over a year? You still haven't answered that. You dislike the first 10/11 issues, so you spend the next year complaining about a series you don't read, haven't paid for and don't maintain interest in?

Why? Logically, why?

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