Batman Annual #1 - First Snow

did not get i is wife was the lady on the wheelchair

Have absolutely loved everything Snyder's done with Batman so far, but this revamped version of Mr. Freeze not so much. I liked the fact that he was sympathetic before. It made him different from most of the rest of Batman's rogues gallery. Now he's just kind of another gimmick obsessed psycho which makes him less unique since Bats already has a ton of those.

Oh well, I tend to pick and choose what stories go into my personal continuity for these characters, anyway, so I'm just going to keep the Dini version for my own!

Not sure that i like the changes they did to Freeze , made him less symphatic. It's always the part I liked about him. Now it seems that he's just a crazy person , as all of batman's villains:P. I love Scott Sneider's writing on Batman , not sure about this annual.

I like the twist at the end and I'm very curious where they'll take it in later issues. I loved this book.

the funny thing about the plot that was his mom.

I always like Mr. Freeze as a sympathetic villain. Not sure how I feel about Snyder turning him into a sociopath.

@DarthShap said:

Showing him surprised and vulnerable is a good thing. But here, it is going against the very concept of Gotham before Batman. Gotham is a city of crime, not a city of supervillains. Joe Chill is its symbol, just a mugger. Batman becomes Gotham's first superhero for his fight against Crime and changes the nature of crime as a result. It is organic, it works and it makes Batman special. After Snyder's run, all of that will have been destroyed and for what?

A valid criticism. But Gotham's been around for much longer than Batman and there have been other 'heroes' in DC Universe long before the first modern superhero, Superman debuted. As such it makes sense that there would be other villainous organisations and evil characters which have come about prior to Batman so why can't Batman face these past threats without retaining his uniqueness and his impact on crime?

@DarthShap said:

Zucco and Bruce were not in their radar but Dick was. If the Circus was their training academy and Dick their next Talon, my guess is, the very day Zucco made his first threat to the Circus manager, he would have told the court and had him killed. And even afterwards, they would not have left anyone adopt their next Talon. Talons were just too precious to let someone ruin the Talon of a generation.

And again, it all messes with the idea that like the Waynes before the mugging, they are supposed to be normal people, not parts of a killers academy.

I believe the Talons were about to make Dick the next Talon after his parents' murder as only the Richard and Mary Grayson were targeted for death. As such the Court would be willing to let this happen to allow them to take Dick Grayson in without him having any meaningful attachments which would allow the Court to rigorously train him to become a Talon. However, Bruce stepped in at that moment and adopted Dick, thus disrupting the Court's plans.

@DarthShap said:

Of course, it happens but it is just unbelievable that it would happen to this particular family, who again were supposed to be normal. They become exceptional after Batman's arrival.

To me, it is all bad soap opera. "EVERY THING YOU THOUGHT YOU KNEW IS WROOOOONG!"

It is not the greatest use of the Batman universe. In RIP, Morrison was pretty much making fun of this type of stupid RetCons with his rumours about the Waynes (which actually were invented by Hurt to destabilize Bruce Wayne in the future, him being a living time paradox created by Darkseid to kill Batman).

Again the coincidence is a great one but as you say the Gordons are a family tied to the Batman universe so making their family the one with the psychopathic son in made the Black Mirror more personal as James went after Barbara all the while prior to that Gordon was torn between thinking that James could have relapsed back into his psychopathic state of mind and be responsible for the recent string of murders. Besides Snyder hasn't wrecked the Bat universe completely, he's merely turned over new developments that can be slotted into the current Batman storyline without disrupting the continuity. And I did enjoy the Morrison run on Batman as well though I never picked up on the fact the Wayne rumours were mocking the retcons that occur in the comics.

@Lvenger said:

To me all these things you've mentioned don't go against the nature of the concept of Batman. The Court of Owls challenge the very concept of Batman as he is supposed to know Gotham inside and out and had dismissed the very idea of the Court of Owls. Yet in Batman, it is discovered that they do in fact exist and are far more influential than Batman had dreamed. As such, the clash with them is one that allows Batman to be beaten and shown as vulnerable, something we don't get to often see.

Showing him surprised and vulnerable is a good thing. But here, it is going against the very concept of Gotham before Batman. Gotham is a city of crime, not a city of supervillains. Joe Chill is its symbol, just a mugger. Batman becomes Gotham's first superhero for his fight against Crime and changes the nature of crime as a result. It is organic, it works and it makes Batman special. After Snyder's run, all of that will have been destroyed and for what?

@Lvenger said:

In terms of Dick Grayson, the coincidence is a bit far fetched but I think the reason why the Court never acted against Zucco was because he wasn't on their radar. In issue 2 or 3 of Batman, Lincoln March suggests to Bruce that his new Gotham initiative brought Bruce to the Court's attention which is why it makes sense they hadn't shown up before.

Zucco and Bruce were not in their radar but Dick was. If the Circus was their training academy and Dick their next Talon, my guess is, the very day Zucco made his first threat to the Circus manager, he would have told the court and had him killed. And even afterwards, they would not have left anyone adopt their next Talon. Talons were just too precious to let someone ruin the Talon of a generation.

And again, it all messes with the idea that like the Waynes before the mugging, they are supposed to be normal people, not parts of a killers academy.

@Lvenger said:

Finally, these things do happen. Either through some kind of trauma or problem at birth, psychopaths can be said to be naturally born that way. Plus the things they are capable of make them dangerous threats and I enjoyed seeing Dick take on an actual psychopath, one more closely related to the psychopaths we face. If he became a psychopath as a result of Batman and the other supervillains, that would have diminished his character. One of the best things about James Gordon Jr was that he had no real gimmick unlike Batman's other villains, he simply relished causing others pain. That was the chilling thing about the storyline.

Of course, it happens but it is just unbelievable that it would happen to this particular family, who again were supposed to be normal. They become exceptional after Batman's arrival.

To me, it is all bad soap opera. "EVERY THING YOU THOUGHT YOU KNEW IS WROOOOONG!"

It is not the greatest use of the Batman universe. In RIP, Morrison was pretty much making fun of this type of stupid RetCons with his rumours about the Waynes (which actually were invented by Hurt to destabilize Bruce Wayne in the future, him being a living time paradox created by Darkseid to kill Batman).

@DarthShap said:

@Lvenger said:

I agree with your point about changing Mr Freeze's origin but Snyder's additions of making Gordon's son a psychopath, introducing the Court of Owls and making Haly's Circus an audition stage for the Court's Talons layers the history of Batman and his supporting cast, giving the Batman universe more depth as well as adding a more diverse Rogues gallery for Batman to face. There's only so many times you can write a Joker, Two Face, Scarecrow, Penguin amongst other Batman Rogues stories and the fact Snyder is able to create unique, riveting challenges for Batman to face as opposed to going up against one of his usual rogues every month is a great strength of Snyder's writing IMO. They don't hurt the Batman franchise, they add to it.

They are not just additions. They are RetCons and go against certain ideas that forge the Batman concept.

The Gordons, the Graysons and the Pennyworths and the Waynes are supposed to be normal families. Joe Chill killing the Waynes is just a mugging gone wrong in a city of crime, corruption and a few dark secrets but nothing more. What makes Batman so exceptional is the moment right after that. He decides to fight against Crime itself and then everything changes. Supervillains and superheroes start appearing as a response to what he is doing. In Year One, he is just fighting the mob. Catwoman makes her appearance because she is inspired by him and The Joker takes this form because he was traumatized by Batman when he fell into these chemicals and so on...

That is why it does not work to have Gotham always filled with supervillains. It works against the entire mythos.

Same thing: Dick Grayson is supposed to mirror Bruce Wayne. Him actually being part of a secret organization of assassins does not work with that basic idea, the coincidence is just stupid and it makes absolutely no sense that the almighty court of owls did not kill Bruce and take Dick then and even less that they would not kill Zucco the moment he started to extort from their front.

As for James Gordon Jr, it just feels like bad soap opera. I loved the comic book but again, the father is the police commissioner, the daughter is Batgirl and we are supposed to believe that the son was born a psychopath? Again, they are supposed to be normal people, that is the point of Year One. It would make sense that James Jr would become a crazy supervillain, as a result of growing up in Gotham, as a rippling effect from Batman and other supervillains but that is not the case. He was born this way.

To me all these things you've mentioned don't go against the nature of the concept of Batman. The Court of Owls challenge the very concept of Batman as he is supposed to know Gotham inside and out and had dismissed the very idea of the Court of Owls. Yet in Batman, it is discovered that they do in fact exist and are far more influential than Batman had dreamed. As such, the clash with them is one that allows Batman to be beaten and shown as vulnerable, something we don't get to often see.

In terms of Dick Grayson, the coincidence is a bit far fetched but I think the reason why the Court never acted against Zucco was because he wasn't on their radar. In issue 2 or 3 of Batman, Lincoln March suggests to Bruce that his new Gotham initiative brought Bruce to the Court's attention which is why it makes sense they hadn't shown up before.

Finally, these things do happen. Either through some kind of trauma or problem at birth, psychopaths can be said to be naturally born that way. Plus the things they are capable of make them dangerous threats and I enjoyed seeing Dick take on an actual psychopath, one more closely related to the psychopaths we face. If he became a psychopath as a result of Batman and the other supervillains, that would have diminished his character. One of the best things about James Gordon Jr was that he had no real gimmick unlike Batman's other villains, he simply relished causing others pain. That was the chilling thing about the storyline.

@Lvenger said:

I agree with your point about changing Mr Freeze's origin but Snyder's additions of making Gordon's son a psychopath, introducing the Court of Owls and making Haly's Circus an audition stage for the Court's Talons layers the history of Batman and his supporting cast, giving the Batman universe more depth as well as adding a more diverse Rogues gallery for Batman to face. There's only so many times you can write a Joker, Two Face, Scarecrow, Penguin amongst other Batman Rogues stories and the fact Snyder is able to create unique, riveting challenges for Batman to face as opposed to going up against one of his usual rogues every month is a great strength of Snyder's writing IMO. They don't hurt the Batman franchise, they add to it.

They are not just additions. They are RetCons and go against certain ideas that forge the Batman concept.

The Gordons, the Graysons and the Pennyworths and the Waynes are supposed to be normal families. Joe Chill killing the Waynes is just a mugging gone wrong in a city of crime, corruption and a few dark secrets but nothing more. What makes Batman so exceptional is the moment right after that. He decides to fight against Crime itself and then everything changes. Supervillains and superheroes start appearing as a response to what he is doing. In Year One, he is just fighting the mob. Catwoman makes her appearance because she is inspired by him and The Joker takes this form because he was traumatized by Batman when he fell into these chemicals and so on...

That is why it does not work to have Gotham always filled with supervillains. It works against the entire mythos.

Same thing: Dick Grayson is supposed to mirror Bruce Wayne. Him actually being part of a secret organization of assassins does not work with that basic idea, the coincidence is just stupid and it makes absolutely no sense that the almighty court of owls did not kill Bruce and take Dick then and even less that they would not kill Zucco the moment he started to extort from their front.

As for James Gordon Jr, it just feels like bad soap opera. I loved the comic book but again, the father is the police commissioner, the daughter is Batgirl and we are supposed to believe that the son was born a psychopath? Again, they are supposed to be normal people, that is the point of Year One. It would make sense that James Jr would become a crazy supervillain, as a result of growing up in Gotham, as a rippling effect from Batman and other supervillains but that is not the case. He was born this way.

@DarthShap said:

This was the time and opportunity to turn a good Batman villain into a great one. Mr. Freeze never had a definitive story that made him unforgettable. His best story was from Batman: The Animated Series. He deserved a better story and that's what Snyder and James Tynion IV have done.

I disagree with that premise. To me, Heart of Ice is as perfect as it gets.

Now this comic book is very good as sucg but once again, the RetCon is not doing anything for the character. From tragic well intended person who got his heart broken and lost his mind when he lost his wife and became that cold being, he is now a deranged and pervy sociopath.

It makes for a good twist but like everything with Snyder, on the long run, it is just not that good and too reliant on those RetCon twists.

-You thought Gordon's son was just in comic book limbo? Well he is back and he is a psychopath!

-You thought Batman knew everything about Gotham? Well he does not! There is a secret society in Gotham!

-You thought Harley Circus was just a Circus? Well it is not! It is a cover for said secret society!

-You thought Mr Freeze was this tragic character who lost his mind because of how much he is in love with his wife? Think again! He actually is a sociopath and a perv!

Again, the comic books are good but those changes are hurting the Batman franchise. One of the key themes in Batman is that Gotham and its crime evolved with the arrival of Batman. I do not see why the Gordons, the Graysons and the Pennyworths and the Waynes should have deep family secrets involving pre-Batman superhero stuff. Also, the villains are supposed to mirror Batman and to be as tragic as he. I did not feel bad for Victor Fries here (like I did for the Joker in The Killing Joke or Two-Face, or the Penguin, or Harley Quinn, or Bane, or Ra's al Ghul), like at all.

I agree with your point about changing Mr Freeze's origin but Snyder's additions of making Gordon's son a psychopath, introducing the Court of Owls and making Haly's Circus an audition stage for the Court's Talons layers the history of Batman and his supporting cast, giving the Batman universe more depth as well as adding a more diverse Rogues gallery for Batman to face. There's only so many times you can write a Joker, Two Face, Scarecrow, Penguin amongst other Batman Rogues stories and the fact Snyder is able to create unique, riveting challenges for Batman to face as opposed to going up against one of his usual rogues every month is a great strength of Snyder's writing IMO. They don't hurt the Batman franchise, they add to it.

This was the time and opportunity to turn a good Batman villain into a great one. Mr. Freeze never had a definitive story that made him unforgettable. His best story was from Batman: The Animated Series. He deserved a better story and that's what Snyder and James Tynion IV have done.

I disagree with that premise. To me, Heart of Ice is as perfect as it gets.

Now this comic book is very good as sucg but once again, the RetCon is not doing anything for the character. From tragic well intended person who got his heart broken and lost his mind when he lost his wife and became that cold being, he is now a deranged and pervy sociopath.

It makes for a good twist but like everything with Snyder, on the long run, it is just not that good and too reliant on those RetCon twists.

-You thought Gordon's son was just in comic book limbo? Well he is back and he is a psychopath!

-You thought Batman knew everything about Gotham? Well he does not! There is a secret society in Gotham!

-You thought Harley Circus was just a Circus? Well it is not! It is a cover for said secret society!

-You thought Mr Freeze was this tragic character who lost his mind because of how much he is in love with his wife? Think again! He actually is a sociopath and a perv!

Again, the comic books are good but those changes are hurting the Batman franchise. One of the key themes in Batman is that Gotham and its crime evolved with the arrival of Batman. I do not see why the Gordons, the Graysons and the Pennyworths and the Waynes should have deep family secrets involving pre-Batman superhero stuff. Also, the villains are supposed to mirror Batman and to be as tragic as he. I did not feel bad for Victor Fries here (like I did for the Joker in The Killing Joke or Two-Face, or the Penguin, or Harley Quinn, or Bane, or Ra's al Ghul), like at all.

I'd rather have Lazara back than this new Nora.

I hated Lazara.

Also, mohawk is lame.

*insert generic "Heart of Ice" love letter here*

@zackattack529: Yeah, Snyder is way overrated.

I just read the issue, It was awesome, now I don't feel that he is a victim, but I still feeling sorry for him.

@TheRedRobin96: Batman is barely in it. Get it. Its really good.

I'dd give this 5/5 , Great issue.

I think they sould make more villain issues.

@Outside_85: I agree completely.

@Outside_85 said:

@MonkeyToe: Actually that was another thing they added with the animal experiments. As a kid and young adult Victor was supposedly immensely shy and introvert, leaving him essentially friendless. Nora however brought him out of that shell, and he was desperate to get her back after she had been put on ice, because she was the thing that mattered most in this world to him. So, I wouldn't call him crazy, more that he was desperate and driven to a point where he would do anything to get her back. (I think it could be equated to him gladly making a deal with the devil if it was offered, if you're normally a Marvel reader, think of Mephisto and some of the deals he's made, with like, Spiderman.)

I see what you are getting at, but even so these are not the actions of a mentally healthy person. If you are willing to put many other people's health and lives at stake for one person, then you don't fully understand the boundaries of right or wrong. These are the same psychological problems that serial killers possess. In either story he is a sociopath plain and simple, not just some average joe going through abnormal lengths to cure his wife.

@MonkeyToe: Actually that was another thing they added with the animal experiments. As a kid and young adult Victor was supposedly immensely shy and introvert, leaving him essentially friendless. Nora however brought him out of that shell, and he was desperate to get her back after she had been put on ice, because she was the thing that mattered most in this world to him. So, I wouldn't call him crazy, more that he was desperate and driven to a point where he would do anything to get her back. (I think it could be equated to him gladly making a deal with the devil if it was offered, if you're normally a Marvel reader, think of Mephisto and some of the deals he's made, with like, Spiderman.)

@Outside_85 said:

@MonkeyToe said:

I think there is still some sympathy to be had for Fries. I felt that was the whole reason that we got the flashback of his mother and therefore instilling a young Victor with some deep psychological issues, essentially losing his mother to the ice twice.

I seem to remember some people complaining about the previous change in Freeze, where they added the cryro-experimentation on the neighborhood pets. Granted this kinda gave a reason for him getting started. But one of the things I found compelling about Freeze was that he wasn't crazy or even deranged like most of Batman's enemies, he did terrible things to people who got in his way, but I liked the idea of him as a man pushing so far for something as simple as love for his wife.

Sadly...Freeze is like every other nut that Batman fights, and Batman says that quite clearly. :(

Granted, I am far from an expert on anything DC as I have just picked up reading DC comics with the launch of the New 52. In my opinion though, the new changes only deepen his character. So he was a man so in love with his wife that he was fighting to bring her back. But surely, he was already crazy. Normal people don't ignore society just to get what they want. He wasn't just pushing the laws to get his wife back, he was straight up breaking them. It seems to me that this hardly explains such a drastic change in personality. Yes he was in love, yes he wanted his wife back, but what made him so obsessed with it? There was nothing to explain the break in his psychology before so far as I can tell. Now, psychologically speaking, the character has a reason to be broken in the head.

@MonkeyToe said:

I think there is still some sympathy to be had for Fries. I felt that was the whole reason that we got the flashback of his mother and therefore instilling a young Victor with some deep psychological issues, essentially losing his mother to the ice twice.

I seem to remember some people complaining about the previous change in Freeze, where they added the cryro-experimentation on the neighborhood pets. Granted this kinda gave a reason for him getting started. But one of the things I found compelling about Freeze was that he wasn't crazy or even deranged like most of Batman's enemies, he did terrible things to people who got in his way, but I liked the idea of him as a man pushing so far for something as simple as love for his wife.

Sadly...Freeze is like every other nut that Batman fights, and Batman says that quite clearly. :(

@Outside_85 said:

I am sorry to say I am a little dissapointed with this origins, which had already been written over a decade ago, this was just a rewrite of the Heart of Ice. While that was really good and the turning point for the character, the big twist here really removes all the sympathy the cartoon instilled. So...just copying Heart of Ice would have been better :(

I think there is still some sympathy to be had for Fries. I felt that was the whole reason that we got the flashback of his mother and therefore instilling a young Victor with some deep psychological issues, essentially losing his mother to the ice twice.

I like the direction that Snyder took with Mr. Freeze. It really makes him look like an even worse deranged lunatic and not just someone trying to hard to get his wife back. Good read.

@G-Man: The art wasn't that bad. The only part i didn't like was the flashback to the Lab and all.

Have absolutely loved everything Snyder's done with Batman so far, but this revamped version of Mr. Freeze not so much. I liked the fact that he was sympathetic before. It made him different from most of the rest of Batman's rogues gallery. Now he's just kind of another gimmick obsessed psycho which makes him less unique since Bats already has a ton of those.

Oh well, I tend to pick and choose what stories go into my personal continuity for these characters, anyway, so I'm just going to keep the Dini version for my own!

I am sorry to say I am a little dissapointed with this origins, which had already been written over a decade ago, this was just a rewrite of the Heart of Ice. While that was really good and the turning point for the character, the big twist here really removes all the sympathy the cartoon instilled. So...just copying Heart of Ice would have been better :(

I love the art of this Annual! I mean it is just so amazing and really sucked me in and that story was just so O.O

AMAZING, that's all I can say. First it was Penguin and now Mr. Freeze, keep it up!! XD

@Dernman said:

This was a good issue I enjoyed it.

SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.

Not sure how I feel about it not being his wife though.

I actually enjoyed that...

In the panels after Freeze makes his move in Arkham, where some dude and Dr. Arkham are looking at the computer screens (early on in the issue, say maybe about 6 or 7 pages in) the map on the screen is from one of the Arkham games. Oddly enough it's from Akrham City and not Arkham Asylum, but still.

Thought that was pretty neat.

@zackattack529: Your mum.

@GBrutality: Freeze was always evil. He killed people by the dozens. Regardless if it was to save his wife.

OMG WHY IS IT WHEN I SAY SOMETHING EVERYONE HAS TO TRY AND CHANGE MY OPINION ON HERE! SNYDER IS A GOOD WRITTER OK PEOPLE I JUST FEEL HE IS OVERRATED. THATS ALL! ENOUGH WITH THE PMs

I loved how Riddler's cane and (Jokers?) playing cards were next to Freeze's suit.

Just the part of Freeze's childhood reeks of Scott Snyder's brilliance. Those pages alone would be worth the price of admission.

A decent Freeze story, thought I'd never see the day.

OK I am thinking of buying this, but ONLY for Mr. Freeze. So should I still pick it up? Because I am just lookign for a good Freeze story with out batman there every other second.

read this issue.... it was great and damn ..mr freeze is creepy

I thought the art was great. I like Capulo's work a lot too. His Batman is very imposing, but as far as renditions of the other characters go, including unmasked Bruce Wayne, I found myself wishing Tynion IV was the regular artist on the book. Or at least a regular artist for almost any other DC comic I read. And I'll never understand what anyone sees in Francesco Francavilla.

As far as Snyder's work goes, I haven't read any of his Detective Comics work, but as much as I've been enjoying the Court of Owls, I found this story to be significantly more powerful and reminded me of one of my favorite Batman stories of all time, Alan Moore's Clayface story from Batman Annual #11. I can't wait to see what he can do with other members of the bat rogue gallery after the Night of the Owls wraps up.

@zackattack529: Snyder brought me back to Batman. I would pick the occasional trade here and there but was not impressed til I read "Black Mirror". His court of Owls arch is also great. As for people picking up books for names it's usually because the names are pretty damn good. You can't get a great story from a writer every time. I don't expect this. Look at The Dark Knight Strikes Again. Not great at all and from Frank Miller who no one can say is a bad a writer. Same with Morrison who everyone loves. Final Crisis was crap. As for Justice League with Johns and Lee, I enjoyed reading as a whole more then I did in single issues. This one shot my Snyder was what an Annual should be. Good art, good story, and a bit of a shocker. No complaints here.

this book was great. Cool spin on Freeze, the art was really good too.

I really enjoyed this issue! Not too sure what to think of Freeze's new origin but I like it more than I hate it.

@GBrutality: I am sure he was Batman for much longer than the stated 6 years. They just reverted Mr. Freeze a bit and ignored his time as one of the original villains Mr. Zero. He was just another villain that showed up over the years during Batman's career. Just because he was Bruce Wayne when he met Freeze doesn't mean he was not Batman at the time.

i actually kind of hated this a lot. and the only thing i did like was the art.

i don't know how to do the SPOILERS thing but yeah, SPOILERS

first off; the costume. what is this desire to have all the frost-themed villains in the 52 not have sleeves? captain cold it was fine since his costume made him look like an enemy out of megaman and it gave him a new power setting and threat potential than just another dick with an ice gun. makes sense when dealing with a guy who has the powers of the flash.

second, i liked that mr. freeze wasn't necessarily an evil guy. he just lost the love of his life and his good intentions were derailed by someone (idc who that is really) which drove him mad. he was an expert in cryogenics so him knowing to use the equipment didn't mean he had some fascination with freezing stuff. i don't like this new nora angle. it takes away. like i said, he was in arkham because he was driven crazy not because he was on joker-caliber psychopathy.

finally, this whole time thing is getting really stupid. just don't do it or force it because it sounds ridiculous. in six years time you started being batman, and had at least FOUR robins? are you kidding me?

i know people won't like what i have to say and i'm not too happy either because i love snyder but this was a huge letdown. the angle with the court of owls was even a dud. this was just a big disappointment in my eyes.

@RedOwl_1 said:

And overrated word is over rated -_-

great story. i love the changes to Frees. He seems more like a real vilan now.

Still think the Arkam City mr freeze is the best.

And overrated word is over rated -_-

I'm not sure if I like the changes made to Freeze or not. They're pretty big changes, honestly. But it was written well, and I thought the art was fine. Agreed that this'll probably be a pretty memorable issue though.

Wow this book was really a great read. It had me rooting for Victor all the way up till the end. I was actually convinced Mr. Freeze was right about Bruce Wayne. I thought he was a total dick too until the reveal about Nora. Thought the art was quite nice too. Pretty perfect all in all.

@mosnterduc1000 said:

@zackattack529: Before the reboot, and before Snyder, Detective was languishing. He brought a lot of new readers (including me) to that title when he (with Jock and Francavilla of course) took over. Of which that momentum carried over to Batman and made it pretty much the best super hero book on the stands.

You mention Bendis and Johns, two creators who have great resumes (Bendis has been weaker of late), and two guys who made definitive runs on books like Daredevil and Green Lantern (respectively) that hold there own against any other runs in the lifespan of either of those books. I would go as far to say that Johns run on GL has no peer in my history of reading it, and I have followed GL off and on for 25 years. And right now, we are seeing that kind of thing with Snyders take on Batman. Mentioning Snyder alongside these two creators is high praise, even though you may not think so...

I agree that none of these guys are an Alan Moore, but who is? He is THE writer that most writers in this biz aspire to today. But you shouldn't knock Snyder because of his success. He worked his way up from the trenches and has cut his own niche in the Dark Knight Mythos. Kudos to Scott!

Well said...though I'm more than done with either Bendis or Johns and actively avoid there current work. They've got some respectable stuff in their bibliography. Personally, I don't like Snyder's books because they're "dark" or for any other shallow and insipidly adolescent reason. I read, admire, respect Snyder's work because of his ability to write engaging and interesting stories. He has a great grasp of characterization. And he writes to the strengths of his art teams. In my opinion he's earned every bit of the praise and success he's getting. But somebody will always be overrated/underrated in another's eyes.