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Avengers Vs. X-Men #6 - Round 6

4

The tables have turned as the Phoenix Force has found multiple hosts. What this will mean for the Avengers and the world remain to be seen. The battle isn't over yet.

The series has taken a new direction as the playing field has changed. Several X-Men are now powered by the Phoenix Force so does that mean there's no hope for the Avengers?

The Good

This series has definitely had its ups and downs. The idea of both teams fighting each other over Hope Summers and the arrival of the Phoenix Force set the stage for a grim battle. What resulted was a series of brief glimpses at fights between members of both teams. We've been seeing Cyclops and Captain America stand their ground in what they believe is the correct course of action. Cyclops has been making several speeches on how mutants are now being persecuted and all this is really just a way to try to control or hold mutantkind down.

With the Phoenix Force fragmented and attaching to five different X-Men, there's a new set of questions raised. The Phoenix Force was always too much for one person to contain. Could the fact that it's split make it more manageable? Then again, if the Phoenix Force is near infinite power, dividing infinity by five still results in an infinite amount of power that could be too much. We also have to look at why were these five chosen by the writers? Are they the perfect choice to contain the power or is one or more a weak link in this chain that will result in the inevitable catastrophic outcome?

While the issue deals with the newly powered X-Men using their power and the reaction of the Avengers and world, it's clear that something else is brewing. Besides the X-Men and the Avengers, we still have two unknown factors: Scarlet Witch and Lei Kung. Also, if you've seen the previous teaser for this second half of the series, you have an idea of something else coming.

This issue also brings about a change in the art team. Olivier Coipel, Mark Morales and Laura Martin make this feel like a completely different series. There are a lot of characters here and it's great to see Coipel's interpretations of everyone along with the fact that several X-Men and Avengers have been given tweaks in their costumes due to the circumstances of the story. It almost feels as if we're seeing a bunch of action figure variants with all the familiar characters, but in a good way. Marvel's marketing team should have been all over this in terms of merchandise to tie into this crossover.

The Bad

Gradually we've been seeing Cyclops become more and more…extreme in his way of thinking. He does have the future and survival of mutants on his mind but often feels as if his decisions and comments are rooted in hysteria. He has a big burden on his shoulders and clearly he's reminded of the loss of Jean Grey and most likely even Cable while trying to do what he thinks is best for Hope and mutants.

Speaking of Cable, we're still waiting for hints of events leading to that desolate future Cable saw in AVENGERS: X-SANCTION. Are we going to see all the tech used that Cable and Blaquesmith discovered in the Avengers Mansion in the future?

It's clear that the Avengers can't just sit back and watch the X-Men operate with the power of the Phoenix Force but I can't tell if it's admirable or insane that they think they can stand a chance fighting against the X-Men in possession of the power.

The Verdict

This is starting to feel like a completely different series for several reasons. Besides the change in art from John Romita Jr. to Olivier Coipel, the structure of the series has changed. Thankfully we're not seeing random battle after battle between members of both teams and it's back to feeling like there is more of a story going on instead of just seeing match ups that fans may have been wanting to see. The odds are not stacked against the Avengers but that adds to the suspense of the story. In the first few issues, it felt as if the Avengers kept getting the upper hand. Now that the tables have completely turned, we're back to wondering how the entire series will unfold. I started losing interest but I am hooked once again. With other players besides the X-Men and Avengers starting to show their hands, we're getting a sense that this could be the big story that it was meant to be. There are many unknowns and I am back to being kept in suspense waiting to see what's next. The series is back on track to where I want it to be. Thankfully we only have to wait two weeks for the next issue.

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KingofMadCows

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Edited By KingofMadCows

@ChillinVillain said:

Of course, anyone would be happy to improve their standing but as that life improves people stop being happy with those things and start expecting more and taking things for granted; an example is the American Revolution.

People don't care about such things as corruption or an absolute dictation long as it doesn't disturb them directly. Most of us will think about our problems, whether severe or petty, before we worry about the suffering of another in some other country that has nothing to do with us; we do that everyday without realizing. In AvX, the entire world in affected by the PhoeniX-Men and thus everyone will care.

Also, I did say:

"The only thing in question is when such peace/compromise would collapse."

Everything has a pace that it goes at, and every pace is different. Some rebellion can't spark because the people don't have the means. Some don't spark because of fear, and the people are in of hope. Some don't happen because people have yet to realize that the path they're on is not the right path; like the Americas transition away from slavery.

Just because there aren't rebellions all over the world doesn't mean the world is satisfied with itself.

But any attempt to reform or make the world better carries risks. Creating a new source of power? What if some crazy dictator or terrorists get their hands on it and turn it into a weapon? Invented a new fertilizer that doubles production of crops and solving world hunger? Population growth could get out of hand and result in even more problems in the future.

The Phoenix 5 probably aren't going to turn the earth into a Star Trek Federation type utopia free from war, poverty, and crime, where everyone is enlightened and love each other. In fact, that definitely won't happen since if it did, Marvel wouldn't be able to sell any more comics.

And while people may very well rebel against the P5 out of fear, that's not really the P5's fault. When the Galileo was found guilty of heresy and imprisoned, do you blame Galileo for trying to convince people of the fact that the earth isn't the center of the universe or do you blame the people who tried to destroy him for trying to enlighten the world?

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ADAMocracy

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Edited By ADAMocracy

No yours is more invalid now because you changed your avatar, in order to make my comment invalid. So hahaha!

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zombietag

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Edited By zombietag

this series got so much more interesting with this issue, but i hate how its not very tied into the rest of MU. i understand not everything has to be on board, but with things like the renewable energy, for sure spider-man would be talking about it at horizon labs, and we don't get a mention of this at all in ASM. i wish things could be more like civil war was... oh well :/

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Yai_Inn

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Edited By Yai_Inn
@Hareil0079: It does not have to be a divorce case. Example: it could be a birth parent seeking custody after an adoption. However the point is that courts decide by looking at "what is best for the child" and as different as this is it could be decided by the same logic.  
Looking at what is best for Hope (which in turn is what's best for all life on earth) would be for her to be with people who could teach her how to maintain an amount of control while possessed by the Phoenix. That would be Rachel, the Cuckoos and now thanks to Bendis Iron-Fist.  
To believe that the Avengers (Tony Stark) could build something to stop the Phoenix is just naive. And for the Avengers to remove Hope from the X-Men (who have dealt with the Phoenix before - Rachel, Cuckoos) is to remove her from the environment which provides the greatest possibly for her learn that control. Which in turn is putting the world at greater risk. Therefore making what the Avengers were doing wrong, initially. Now Iron-Fist offers the same opportunity as someone like Rachel would have.    
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madrid_san

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Edited By madrid_san

@ADAMocracy: It's just as valid or invalid as yours. An eye for and eye, my friend. By the way, I am deeply saddened that you didn't even read my comment.

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Hareil0079

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Edited By Hareil0079

@Yai_Inn said:

@Hareil0079: Your case is not entirely true. In court it would likely come down to how old the kidnapped is, and who has custody. Unfortunately it is a common case; child wants to live with one parent but the court has deemed said parent to be unfit. In the case of Hope, I have no idea how old she is, if she would still be considered a minor (does growing up in the future count?) If a court deemed the X-Men to have custody of her, it wouldn't matter if she wanted to leave or not. On the debate on who is in the right and who is in the wrong... I want to point to Christos Gage's X-Men Legacy issue 266 (a tie-in but my favourite issue of this series so far). The team is at the Jean Grey school and deciding whether or not they want to go to Utopia and join in the fighting. Rachel says "Kitty makes a valid point. But I'm one of the Phoenix's former hosts, and I was able to handle it. I believe Hope is up to this." Clearly the Avengers motivation is faulty, there's really no reason to believe that Hope with the Phoenix Force would destroy all life on earth.

What you speak of happens in a divorce and in terms of custody of a the child, this is different by many levels.

Hope can't handle the PF and she openly admitted that in AvX#5 but it still calls out to her cause it was meant for her to have.

I have and read that X-men legacy issue yea the PF can be controlled and Racheal proved that but she is different from her mother and her dad and is qualified to teach hope how to but not cyclops or anyone of the P5 for that matter since they denied Hope to have it.

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ADAMocracy

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Edited By ADAMocracy

@madrid_san

I didn't even read your comment, but your avatar is a drawing of cyclops, your statement no matter what is invalid

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ADAMocracy

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Edited By ADAMocracy

I do not agree with any of both teams decisions. But you cannot ignore that the Phoenix is dangerous and they should try to find a way to get send it away for good. Things never go according to plan when the phoenix is involved.

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Yai_Inn

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Edited By Yai_Inn
@Hareil0079:  Your case is not entirely true. In court it would likely come down to how old the kidnapped is, and who has custody. Unfortunately it is a common case; child wants to live with one parent but the court has deemed said parent to be unfit.  
In the case of Hope, I have no idea how old she is, if she would still be considered a minor (does growing up in the future count?) If a court deemed the X-Men to have custody of her, it wouldn't matter if she wanted to leave or not.  
 
On the debate on who is in the right and who is in the wrong... I want to point to Christos Gage's X-Men Legacy issue 266 (a tie-in but my favourite issue of this series so far). The team is at the Jean Grey school and deciding whether or not they want to go to Utopia and join in the fighting. Rachel says "Kitty makes a valid point. But I'm one of the Phoenix's former hosts, and I was able to handle it. I believe Hope is up to this." Clearly the Avengers motivation is faulty, there's really no reason to believe that Hope with the Phoenix Force would destroy all life on earth.  
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Ramier

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Edited By Ramier

After reading this issue, Captain is acting like an idiot like in issue number 1. I dont get the whole anti x men comments. If you read this issue clearly you can see how the avengers are acting out of turn. Anything that takes place now i feel would only be a reaction to all the things the avengers have been doing. Cyclops was right they don't care for mutants and treat them with disrespect. More and more I am starting to HATE wolverine at least beast had enough sense to see this is wrong. I can't wait till this event is over and the Whole world hates mutants again even the Avengers and Try to take some kids from the Jean Grey school. More and more I feel that Xmen should be a stand alone marvel book because with the presence of the other heros, it makes them look prejudice how they are never there or willing to help on any mutant crisis.

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Static Shock

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Edited By Static Shock

@jubeiyagyuX: @Hareil0079: Both of you get warnings for insults. Carry on and please have respect for each other.

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Hareil0079

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Edited By Hareil0079

You don't have to be insulting, that fact your responding to is proving the effect. Simple as that and Simple concept too (but simple things are hard for you to understand) So are loop holes (you don't understand that too)

Is stupidity a hereditary thing (and knows no bounds for that matter) for you cause where am I denying the Avengers not Attempting!

BTW as long as it's warranted my insults are valid and in your case it is. Your reading comprehension is REALLLLLLLLLLY Bad!

You haven't understood I thing I posted, not one, I'm wasting my time with you I've been repeating myself over and over again like a broken record and you still haven't got it. Do me a favor Stay in school and please stop doing drugs.

I've said what I've said on other threads and other users got me, your the only user who can't understand so it's over.

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jubeiyagyuX

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Edited By jubeiyagyuX

@Hareil0079 said:

@jubeiyagyuX said:

@Hareil0079 said:

@jubeiyagyuX said:

wow that's lovely,and no it got no effect on me.Sorry internet dick-wavers are simply funny to me and nothing more.

I know I'm posting to one name jubei right now it's hilarious.

Since it seems to get over your head I do get what you explained but like I said show me where in any part of the law attempted kidnapping isn't a crime and I'll concede your point.That's all I need.

It got it's effect cause your still responding and you still haven't got it.

Where have I said kidnapping wasn't a crime? (no where) Being I said the avengers would "Trialed as a Kidnapping in the case with hope" (Making in sense a CRIME) my point from the start till finish is that you can't call something a Kidnapping when the Kidnapped in question chose to leave of their own free will which if presented in court would probably and most likely be the saving grace/loop hole the avengers will have why it would be dismissed (Everything else is Irrelevant, whether the avengers knew or not hope wanted go, or the initial plan all irrelevant) That one factor, that one line is all that matters in the court of law. (kind of like in the movie Liar Liar if you ever seen that movie or its probably before your time) This where you fail to understand and don't get. Just to reiterate LOOP HOLE a lot of laws have these.

If you really got what I said this wouldn't have dragged on for so long and all you proved to me how much you also suck at reading comprehension as well.

loooooooooooool! If it had the "effect" I would be throwing around insults like you. Unfortunately I don't believe in stuff like that so sorry bro.Try harder.

Your point as you say is different from what I am saying as if you took time to even read anything I said it would make sense. ATTEMPTED Kidnapping is different from Kidnapping.Yes,Hope went along with them but did it in anyway stop the Avengers from ATTEMPTING to? NO!!! Yes they did not kidnap her but they ATTEMPTED to.That is what I am saying and as far as I know attempting to do that is a crime.I dare you to try to commit a crime,be caught and because someone else actually committed the crime you say your are not guilty .Maybe where you come from that is the case but its not that way everywhere dude.Also,insulting or waving you internet genitals gets you no cookie! Sorry,going around insulting people wouldn't make your point (even if it were valid) heard.

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Hareil0079

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Edited By Hareil0079

@jubeiyagyuX said:

@Hareil0079 said:

@jubeiyagyuX said:

wow that's lovely,and no it got no effect on me.Sorry internet dick-wavers are simply funny to me and nothing more.

I know I'm posting to one name jubei right now it's hilarious.

Since it seems to get over your head I do get what you explained but like I said show me where in any part of the law attempted kidnapping isn't a crime and I'll concede your point.That's all I need.

It got it's effect cause your still responding and you still haven't got it.

Where have I said kidnapping wasn't a crime? (no where) Being I said the avengers would "Trialed as a Kidnapping in the case with hope" (Making in sense a CRIME) my point from the start till finish is that you can't call something a Kidnapping when the Kidnapped in question chose to leave of their own free will which if presented in court would probably and most likely be the saving grace/loop hole the avengers will have why it would be dismissed (Everything else is Irrelevant, whether the avengers knew or not hope wanted go, or the initial plan all irrelevant) That one factor, that one line is all that matters in the court of law. (kind of like in the movie Liar Liar if you ever seen that movie or its probably before your time) This where you fail to understand and don't get. Just to reiterate LOOP HOLE a lot of laws have these.

If you really got what I said this wouldn't have dragged on for so long and all you proved to me how much you also suck at reading comprehension as well.

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jubeiyagyuX

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Edited By jubeiyagyuX

@Hareil0079 said:

@jubeiyagyuX said:

@Hareil0079 said:

I understand more than you know you nitwit!

Let me break it down to you what would happen in a court room for you to understand!

Avengers vs X-Men

Kidnapping Case Of Hope Summers

Avengers will be tried as "kidnap"

Avengers will make there plea (Hope wanting to go with Wanda who is an avenger anyways)

X-Men make their case "Avengers came in to take hope"

Avengers give their rebuttal

and it'll boil down to the judge asking Hope if she wanted to go or not of her own free will (Obviously we know the answer to that even if she went with Wanda who is and avenger and is seen later with avengers SM and IF in the latest issue of New Avengers so YEA she went with the Avengers!! big deal she left with wanda specifically)

Case Close! easy as hell to understand

The Avengers Knowing or not that Hope wanting to go is IRRELEVANT!!! (what do you not get its.. F*cking in front of you and easy to understand. I hate idiots who know nothing about law and are still in school and think they have everything figured out and they DONT)

As for AvX#7 and not knowing, the tie-ins are giving more away than the main story and hell previews of WatX#12 show the X-men hunting the avengers looking for Hope and asking where she is and what i've gathered from that doesn't sound like any other X-Men knows what happen. (Other than Cyke and Emma)

My statement still stands and your still an F'ing idiot

Thanks for the insult! It makes your argument much more compelling.

Also since you're the one no longer in school (according to you) why not go try to kidnap someone then get sued and come up with the excuse that he/she wanted to leave.Lets see how that goes.Of course Hope wanted to leave,we all saw that in the book but it doesn't change the fact that the Avengers "attempted" to.You cannot tell me that if someone attempts to commit a crime only to find out during the act that its actually going their way then everything's all ok. In other words,If I try to commit a crime and said crime was committed by someone else for example,but I'm caught It would be all peachy right? Good shit bro!! It might be so in your country but you don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out its not the same everywhere.

As long as it's warranted (and in this case it does) my insults still stands! (don't give a D**n about compelling cause I'm an actor trying to win an award)

BTW your welcome since it got the desired effect on you.

ANYWAYS....moving along.

What part do you not get! Honestly, I broke it down for you how it'll run in court for crying out loud and you still can't grasp the concept!

At the end of the day it'll boil down to the kidnapped in question and as long as the Kidnapped agrees with the Kidnapper (regardless of their intentions) you got no case, it'll be dismissed and now trial will different. You can argue the kidnapped done so out of fear but guess what it'll be an up hill battle that would have to be proven and it'll still boil down to the kidnapped agree with that sentiment.

No where I'm denying what the avengers did or their initial intentions on capturing hope but it simply stands you can't call something a kidnapping if the kidnapped in question went on their own free will.

Your examples are meaningless and make little to no sense at all.

wow that's lovely,and no it got no effect on me.Sorry internet dick-wavers are simply funny to me and nothing more.

Since it seems to get over your head I do get what you explained but like I said show me where in any part of the law attempted kidnapping isn't a crime and I'll concede your point.That's all I need.

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RoboShark

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Edited By RoboShark

Cool issue. I've dug this event from the start though.

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Hareil0079

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Edited By Hareil0079

@jubeiyagyuX said:

@Hareil0079 said:

I understand more than you know you nitwit!

Let me break it down to you what would happen in a court room for you to understand!

Avengers vs X-Men

Kidnapping Case Of Hope Summers

Avengers will be tried as "kidnap"

Avengers will make there plea (Hope wanting to go with Wanda who is an avenger anyways)

X-Men make their case "Avengers came in to take hope"

Avengers give their rebuttal

and it'll boil down to the judge asking Hope if she wanted to go or not of her own free will (Obviously we know the answer to that even if she went with Wanda who is and avenger and is seen later with avengers SM and IF in the latest issue of New Avengers so YEA she went with the Avengers!! big deal she left with wanda specifically)

Case Close! easy as hell to understand

The Avengers Knowing or not that Hope wanting to go is IRRELEVANT!!! (what do you not get its.. F*cking in front of you and easy to understand. I hate idiots who know nothing about law and are still in school and think they have everything figured out and they DONT)

As for AvX#7 and not knowing, the tie-ins are giving more away than the main story and hell previews of WatX#12 show the X-men hunting the avengers looking for Hope and asking where she is and what i've gathered from that doesn't sound like any other X-Men knows what happen. (Other than Cyke and Emma)

My statement still stands and your still an F'ing idiot

Thanks for the insult! It makes your argument much more compelling.

Also since you're the one no longer in school (according to you) why not go try to kidnap someone then get sued and come up with the excuse that he/she wanted to leave.Lets see how that goes.Of course Hope wanted to leave,we all saw that in the book but it doesn't change the fact that the Avengers "attempted" to.You cannot tell me that if someone attempts to commit a crime only to find out during the act that its actually going their way then everything's all ok. In other words,If I try to commit a crime and said crime was committed by someone else for example,but I'm caught It would be all peachy right? Good shit bro!! It might be so in your country but you don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out its not the same everywhere.

As long as it's warranted (and in this case it does) my insults still stands! (don't give a D**n about compelling cause I'm an actor trying to win an award)

BTW your welcome since it got the desired effect on you.

ANYWAYS....moving along.

What part do you not get! Honestly, I broke it down for you how it'll run in court for crying out loud and you still can't grasp the concept!

At the end of the day it'll boil down to the kidnapped in question and as long as the Kidnapped agrees with the Kidnapper (regardless of their intentions) you got no case, it'll be dismissed and now trial will different. You can argue the kidnapped done so out of fear but guess what it'll be an up hill battle that would have to be proven and it'll still boil down to the kidnapped agree with that sentiment.

No where I'm denying what the avengers did or their initial intentions on capturing hope but it simply stands you can't call something a kidnapping if the kidnapped in question went on their own free will.

Your examples are meaningless and make little to no sense at all.

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jubeiyagyuX

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Edited By jubeiyagyuX

@Hareil0079 said:

I understand more than you know you nitwit!

Let me break it down to you what would happen in a court room for you to understand!

Avengers vs X-Men

Kidnapping Case Of Hope Summers

Avengers will be tried as "kidnap"

Avengers will make there plea (Hope wanting to go with Wanda who is an avenger anyways)

X-Men make their case "Avengers came in to take hope"

Avengers give their rebuttal

and it'll boil down to the judge asking Hope if she wanted to go or not of her own free will (Obviously we know the answer to that even if she went with Wanda who is and avenger and is seen later with avengers SM and IF in the latest issue of New Avengers so YEA she went with the Avengers!! big deal she left with wanda specifically)

Case Close! easy as hell to understand

The Avengers Knowing or not that Hope wanting to go is IRRELEVANT!!! (what do you not get its.. F*cking in front of you and easy to understand. I hate idiots who know nothing about law and are still in school and think they have everything figured out and they DONT)

As for AvX#7 and not knowing, the tie-ins are giving more away than the main story and hell previews of WatX#12 show the X-men hunting the avengers looking for Hope and asking where she is and what i've gathered from that doesn't sound like any other X-Men knows what happen. (Other than Cyke and Emma)

My statement still stands and your still an F'ing idiot

Thanks for the insult! It makes your argument much more compelling.

Also since you're the one no longer in school (according to you) why not go try to kidnap someone then get sued and come up with the excuse that he/she wanted to leave.Lets see how that goes.Of course Hope wanted to leave,we all saw that in the book but it doesn't change the fact that the Avengers "attempted" to.You cannot tell me that if someone attempts to commit a crime only to find out during the act that its actually going their way then everything's all ok. In other words,If I try to commit a crime and said crime was committed by someone else for example,but I'm caught It would be all peachy right? Good shit bro!! It might be so in your country but you don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out its not the same everywhere.

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ChillinNKillin

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Edited By ChillinNKillin

@KingofMadCows said:

@ChillinVillain: The whole thing reminds me of this

The fact of the matter is that most people simply aren't going to care. As I mentioned before, a majority of the world still live in poverty and have to worry about basic human needs. They'll just be happy that they get food, clean water, shelter, medicine, and safety from harm. As for the rest, they won't care that much either when all their material problems are solved. Heck, look at how little people care now about all the corruption in government, increase in corporate power, and human suffering around the world today.

You can talk about principles all you want but if they were true, just about every nation in the world would be facing rebellions due to how corrupt or inept their governments are.

Of course, anyone would be happy to improve their standing but as that life improves people stop being happy with those things and start expecting more and taking things for granted; an example is the American Revolution.

People don't care about such things as corruption or an absolute dictation long as it doesn't disturb them directly. Most of us will think about our problems, whether severe or petty, before we worry about the suffering of another in some other country that has nothing to do with us; we do that everyday without realizing. In AvX, the entire world in affected by the PhoeniX-Men and thus everyone will care.

Also, I did say:

"The only thing in question is when such peace/compromise would collapse."

Everything has a pace that it goes at, and every pace is different. Some rebellion can't spark because the people don't have the means. Some don't spark because of fear, and the people are in of hope. Some don't happen because people have yet to realize that the path they're on is not the right path; like the Americas transition away from slavery.

Just because there aren't rebellions all over the world doesn't mean the world is satisfied with itself.

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KingofMadCows

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Edited By KingofMadCows

@ChillinVillain: The whole thing reminds me of this

The fact of the matter is that most people simply aren't going to care. As I mentioned before, a majority of the world still live in poverty and have to worry about basic human needs. They'll just be happy that they get food, clean water, shelter, medicine, and safety from harm. As for the rest, they won't care that much either when all their material problems are solved. Heck, look at how little people care now about all the corruption in government, increase in corporate power, and human suffering around the world today.

You can talk about principles all you want but if they were true, just about every nation in the world would be facing rebellions due to how corrupt or inept their governments are.

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ChillinNKillin

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@KingofMadCows: @KingofMadCows said:

@ChillinVillain said:

@KingofMadCows: @KingofMadCows said:

As for the whole "absolute power corrupts" thing, that's just a saying. It's not real wisdom doesn't really have real meaning. Heck, there are plenty of incredibly powerful characters in comics who are not corrupt. There's Odin, Thor, the Watcher, Iron Man, Professor Xavier, etc. If that saying is true then why aren't all the super powerful characters and godlike aliens and entities corrupt?

All those characters have succumbed to their emotions or ideals and used their gifts/powers in a way would seem morally questionable.

For example:

Odin - him taking Loki from his people

Iron Man and Prof, X - Illuminati. Nuff said.

That saying means that we are all human and thus have flaws, or emotions, and it's thru that that absolute power can corrupt us. Cyke is really unstable at the moment as well.....

Also the fact that people won't stay happy under the heels of "absolute" beings with the same flaws as them.

Except that has nothing to do with the fact that they have power.

All those flaws humans have are unrelated to how much power they have. Emotions and ideals exist independently of power. Simply having power doesn't magically corrupt someone.

As for people not staying happy under the heels of "absolute" beings, how do you know that? History is dominated by emperors, godkings, and absolute dictators. Yet, despite the fact that most of them are corrupt and treat their subjects like slaves, they've managed to stay in power. What makes you think that people won't accept benevolent dictators who bring food, water, shelter, power, and peace to the world?

Not to mention the fact that most of the world still have very low standards of living. Think of the people living in North Korea, the state rations food so much that they're encouraging people to eat grass, they're forced to work extremely long hours under brutal conditions, they can't speak out against the government or they'll be executed. Would they really care if some godlike being came over, got rid of the brutal dictatorship, gave everyone food and shelter, and made sure they don't have to toil day and night under brutal conditions just to survive?

The fact of the matter is that most people in the world don't have the luxury of being unhappy with absolute rulers since they're still worried about the immediate needs like food, clean water, shelter, and basic survival.

Actually it does, in that without the power/means they have those characters wouldn't be able to act on their emotion/ideals the way they did.

Emotions and ideals are separate from power, but it's that absolute power that allows us/people to feel like they can do what they want. The weak can't do anything in this world, which why we all strive to become stronger/more successful to be able to do what we want. Absolute power corrupts because it makes what were once limitations boundless and [can] leave us without a sense of consequence.

History is dominated by emperors, dictators, and god-kings, most of which don't exist anymore if the people of whatever community/society can help it. Just because such things happened doesn't mean that people will always accept it; at some point the mind-set of the people will change and once that happens those in power can no longer rule so easily.

Humans are selfish in nature, over time we would resent and question those in power seeing as those in power are human just like us (or at least share the same emotional and mental flaws). When human emotion is involved there's no such thing as regardless of the good those in power may do. The only thing in question is when such peace/compromise would collapse.

There will always be a struggle to live, the PhoeniX-Men creating "peace on Earth" is simply a delay of the inevitable.

Also there's the fact that what these five are doing isn't done for the homo sapiens, but for the insured survival of the homo superior. Eventually that mind set will take presidency and we will see the true reason for this so called "peace on Earth".

When I saw Cyke in space, it reminded me of a quote I heard in a video game:

"When you live among the stars, you lose sight of what is happening on the ground."

The "stars" being the power or one's success, and the "ground" being reality/truth/the life once lived/history/the little things/others/the struggle that is life. At least that's how I interpret it.

Thank's for responding as I'm enjoying this conversation haha.

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KingofMadCows

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@ChillinVillain said:

@KingofMadCows: @KingofMadCows said:

As for the whole "absolute power corrupts" thing, that's just a saying. It's not real wisdom doesn't really have real meaning. Heck, there are plenty of incredibly powerful characters in comics who are not corrupt. There's Odin, Thor, the Watcher, Iron Man, Professor Xavier, etc. If that saying is true then why aren't all the super powerful characters and godlike aliens and entities corrupt?

All those characters have succumbed to their emotions or ideals and used their gifts/powers in a way would seem morally questionable.

For example:

Odin - him taking Loki from his people

Iron Man and Prof, X - Illuminati. Nuff said.

That saying means that we are all human and thus have flaws, or emotions, and it's thru that that absolute power can corrupt us. Cyke is really unstable at the moment as well.....

Also the fact that people won't stay happy under the heels of "absolute" beings with the same flaws as them.

Except that has nothing to do with the fact that they have power.

All those flaws humans have are unrelated to how much power they have. Emotions and ideals exist independently of power. Simply having power doesn't magically corrupt someone.

As for people not staying happy under the heels of "absolute" beings, how do you know that? History is dominated by emperors, godkings, and absolute dictators. Yet, despite the fact that most of them are corrupt and treat their subjects like slaves, they've managed to stay in power. What makes you think that people won't accept benevolent dictators who bring food, water, shelter, power, and peace to the world?

Not to mention the fact that most of the world still have very low standards of living. Think of the people living in North Korea, the state rations food so much that they're encouraging people to eat grass, they're forced to work extremely long hours under brutal conditions, they can't speak out against the government or they'll be executed. Would they really care if some godlike being came over, got rid of the brutal dictatorship, gave everyone food and shelter, and made sure they don't have to toil day and night under brutal conditions just to survive?

The fact of the matter is that most people in the world don't have the luxury of being unhappy with absolute rulers since they're still worried about the immediate needs like food, clean water, shelter, and basic survival.

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ChillinNKillin

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@KingofMadCows: @KingofMadCows said:

As for the whole "absolute power corrupts" thing, that's just a saying. It's not real wisdom doesn't really have real meaning. Heck, there are plenty of incredibly powerful characters in comics who are not corrupt. There's Odin, Thor, the Watcher, Iron Man, Professor Xavier, etc. If that saying is true then why aren't all the super powerful characters and godlike aliens and entities corrupt?

All those characters have succumbed to their emotions or ideals and used their gifts/powers in a way would seem morally questionable.

For example:

Odin - him taking Loki from his people

Iron Man and Prof, X - Illuminati. Nuff said.

That saying means that we are all human and thus have flaws, or emotions, and it's thru that that absolute power can corrupt us. Cyke is really unstable at the moment as well.....

Also the fact that people won't stay happy under the heels of "absolute" beings with the same flaws as them.

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Hareil0079

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That panel and the one before it when Scott tries to grab wanda (the panel a lot of people on this thread are ignoring or turning the blind eye)

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HopesummersFORtheFUTURE

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@Hareil0079 said:

@Chaos Burn said:

I'm liking tie-ins more. The New Avengers (this weeks issue) clearly the best of this weeks release of comics. I'm only questioning now Is wanda and hope since they are obviously going to fight but the question is how and why? Also the Phoenix purpose. (Scott clearly denied hope the PF maybe slight foreshadowing of corruption?)

Gotta love Wanda's Pwnge on Scott

you mean this???

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sswang

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What a pleasant surprise! I love the art of this issue. I wish the whole series would have been done by Coipel. His drawing style is just so much more dynamic than whoever did the previous 5 issues.

I have no love for The Avengers. What would you do if a group of people come to your home and trying to kidnap your adopted granddaughter? I would shoot them, too! I don't think whatever reason "the President" said convinced of my of The Avengers' doing.

It was Wonda's mental breakdown that caused the extinction of the mutant kind, and now she is coming back to do more damage to her own kind? Ugh, she is such a psycho biatch.

One thing I don't understand is, is the Phoenix Five has such great power, how could Scott get hurt just by touching Wonda. That doesn't make sense.

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Hareil0079

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I understand more than you know you nitwit!

Let me break it down to you what would happen in a court room for you to understand!

Avengers vs X-Men

Kidnapping Case Of Hope Summers

Avengers will be tried as "kidnap"

Avengers will make there plea (Hope wanting to go with Wanda who is an avenger anyways)

X-Men make their case "Avengers came in to take hope"

Avengers give their rebuttal

and it'll boil down to the judge asking Hope if she wanted to go or not of her own free will (Obviously we know the answer to that even if she went with Wanda who is and avenger and is seen later with avengers SM and IF in the latest issue of New Avengers so YEA she went with the Avengers!! big deal she left with wanda specifically)

Case Close! easy as hell to understand

The Avengers Knowing or not that Hope wanting to go is IRRELEVANT!!! (what do you not get its.. F*cking in front of you and easy to understand. I hate idiots who know nothing about law and are still in school and think they have everything figured out and they DONT)

As for AvX#7 and not knowing, the tie-ins are giving more away than the main story and hell previews of WatX#12 show the X-men hunting the avengers looking for Hope and asking where she is and what i've gathered from that doesn't sound like any other X-Men knows what happen. (Other than Cyke and Emma)

My statement still stands and your still an F'ing idiot

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jubeiyagyuX

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@Hareil0079 said:

@jubeiyagyuX said:

@Hareil0079 said:

@jubeiyagyuX said:

@Hareil0079 said:

@jubeiyagyuX said:

@august27th said:

@jubeiyagyuX: Assaulting an officer of the law is illegal under any circumstance.

I know but kidnapping is also against the law.

Can't call something kidnapping if the person wanted to go in the first place.

Cyclops and Emma knows that, the rest of Utopia doesn't (do you believe cyke is gonna tell them that? Hell no) with that knowledge known, easier to rally everyone together and make the unity bonds stronger to attack and hunt down the avengers.

That was the second attempt and the Avengers didn't know she wanted to go.Avengers fans are just coming up with every excuse possible.They tried it the first time,failed and tried a second time.

Irrelevant, and you know it. your ignorance knows no bounds. (I'm guessing in your eyes, the avengers were the one who through the first punch)

For the Record I"m an X fan but even I don't have a severe case of tunnel vision for convenience just to ignore whats really happening right in front of me.

loooool! Irrelevant? Attempted kidnapping is irrelevant? Good job dude,and for the record I'm no fan of either team and don't have tunnel vision for convenience.I'd like you to go attempt to kindap someone then when caught plead not guilty,lets see how that goes.

Yea especially when the person in question (the kidnapped = Hope) opted to go! yea they'll equal kidnapping for sure!

News Flash.. when that fact is known it's no longer a kidnapping, the avengers came to take Hope but the fact of fiction she went with them on her own accord (which is further elaborated and seen in New Avengers)

That's claiming someone stole a car that was given to them.

Yes your still showing the "tunnel vision"

why? cause everything I said is right there in front of you and anyone who read AvX#6 and refusing to admit what happen (Tunnel vision for convenience)

My initial comment still stands and I have yet read someone come up with a formal/proper rebuttal to combat it other than stoop low to saying "fanboyism"

Like I said: "Cyclops and Emma knows that, the rest of Utopia doesn't (do you believe cyke is gonna tell them that? Hell no) with that knowledge known, easier to rally everyone together and make the unity bonds stronger to attack and hunt down the avengers."

Hmmmm....Attempted kidnapping bro!!! What part of that don't you understand? Did Hope contact the Avengers in anyway? Did they know she wanted to leave? NO!!!!! They "Attempted" to kidnap her but after getting thier ass handed to them found out she wanted to leave with Wanda.Please stop trying to justify a stupid attempt by the Avengers.

Do I believe Cyke will tell the rest of the mutants? I don't know.Do you know why? Because AvX #7 is NOT out and neither of us works at Marvel.Chill out,relax and see what happens.Don't go off claiming what you "think will happen" as fact.We do NOT know what will happen.

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Hareil0079

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@jubeiyagyuX said:

@Hareil0079 said:

@jubeiyagyuX said:

@Hareil0079 said:

@jubeiyagyuX said:

@august27th said:

@jubeiyagyuX: Assaulting an officer of the law is illegal under any circumstance.

I know but kidnapping is also against the law.

Can't call something kidnapping if the person wanted to go in the first place.

Cyclops and Emma knows that, the rest of Utopia doesn't (do you believe cyke is gonna tell them that? Hell no) with that knowledge known, easier to rally everyone together and make the unity bonds stronger to attack and hunt down the avengers.

That was the second attempt and the Avengers didn't know she wanted to go.Avengers fans are just coming up with every excuse possible.They tried it the first time,failed and tried a second time.

Irrelevant, and you know it. your ignorance knows no bounds. (I'm guessing in your eyes, the avengers were the one who through the first punch)

For the Record I"m an X fan but even I don't have a severe case of tunnel vision for convenience just to ignore whats really happening right in front of me.

loooool! Irrelevant? Attempted kidnapping is irrelevant? Good job dude,and for the record I'm no fan of either team and don't have tunnel vision for convenience.I'd like you to go attempt to kindap someone then when caught plead not guilty,lets see how that goes.

Yea especially when the person in question (the kidnapped = Hope) opted to go! yea they'll equal kidnapping for sure!

News Flash.. when that fact is known it's no longer a kidnapping, the avengers came to take Hope but the fact of fiction she went with them on her own accord (which is further elaborated and seen in New Avengers)

That's claiming someone stole a car that was given to them.

Yes your still showing the "tunnel vision"

why? cause everything I said is right there in front of you and anyone who read AvX#6 and refusing to admit what happen (Tunnel vision for convenience)

My initial comment still stands and I have yet read someone come up with a formal/proper rebuttal to combat it other than stoop low to saying "fanboyism"

Like I said: "Cyclops and Emma knows that, the rest of Utopia doesn't (do you believe cyke is gonna tell them that? Hell no) with that knowledge known, easier to rally everyone together and make the unity bonds stronger to attack and hunt down the avengers."

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KingofMadCows

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I don't think that either side is really wrong. They both have legitimate concerns but the Avengers are definitely being huge douchebags.

There have been several attempted genocides committed against the mutants within the last few years. Despite the fact that they've defeated those threats, the mutants are still a dying race. They're a desperate people and they see Hope as their only chance at survival. It just makes no sense for the Avengers to be so aggressive and confrontational, especially considering how mutants have zero trust in the government due to all the crap that went on in the past few years. Not to mention the fact that Cyclops and Hope saved the Avengers from Cable so their attempt to kidnap Hope would only be seen as an act of betrayal. All they're doing is making Cyclops and the mutants more desperate and paranoid.

As for the whole "absolute power corrupts" thing, that's just a saying. It's not real wisdom doesn't really have real meaning. Heck, there are plenty of incredibly powerful characters in comics who are not corrupt. There's Odin, Thor, the Watcher, Iron Man, Professor Xavier, etc. If that saying is true then why aren't all the super powerful characters and godlike aliens and entities corrupt?

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jubeiyagyuX

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@Hareil0079 said:

@jubeiyagyuX said:

@Hareil0079 said:

@jubeiyagyuX said:

@august27th said:

@jubeiyagyuX: Assaulting an officer of the law is illegal under any circumstance.

I know but kidnapping is also against the law.

Can't call something kidnapping if the person wanted to go in the first place.

Cyclops and Emma knows that, the rest of Utopia doesn't (do you believe cyke is gonna tell them that? Hell no) with that knowledge known, easier to rally everyone together and make the unity bonds stronger to attack and hunt down the avengers.

That was the second attempt and the Avengers didn't know she wanted to go.Avengers fans are just coming up with every excuse possible.They tried it the first time,failed and tried a second time.

Irrelevant, and you know it. your ignorance knows no bounds. (I'm guessing in your eyes, the avengers were the one who through the first punch)

For the Record I"m an X fan but even I don't have a severe case of tunnel vision for convenience just to ignore whats really happening right in front of me.

loooool! Irrelevant? Attempted kidnapping is irrelevant? Good job dude,and for the record I'm no fan of either team and don't have tunnel vision for convenience.I'd like you to go attempt to kindap someone then when caught plead not guilty,lets see how that goes.

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Hareil0079

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@jubeiyagyuX said:

@Hareil0079 said:

@jubeiyagyuX said:

@august27th said:

@jubeiyagyuX: Assaulting an officer of the law is illegal under any circumstance.

I know but kidnapping is also against the law.

Can't call something kidnapping if the person wanted to go in the first place.

Cyclops and Emma knows that, the rest of Utopia doesn't (do you believe cyke is gonna tell them that? Hell no) with that knowledge known, easier to rally everyone together and make the unity bonds stronger to attack and hunt down the avengers.

That was the second attempt and the Avengers didn't know she wanted to go.Avengers fans are just coming up with every excuse possible.They tried it the first time,failed and tried a second time.

Irrelevant, and you know it. your ignorance knows no bounds. (I'm guessing in your eyes, the avengers were the one who through the first punch)

For the Record I"m an X fan but even I don't have a severe case of tunnel vision for convenience just to ignore whats really happening right in front of me.

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ChillinNKillin

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@IronHerc: @IronHerc said:

@sparty-dbq said:

There's a saying that "Absolute power corrupts absolutely." And the PhoeniX-Men (I'm not calling them the Phoenix Five. No originality.) are already showing signs that they're teetering over the edge. Helping crops grow and cleaning up water sources is one thing, but to unilaterally dictate in one motion how all nations should act towards one another is nothing short of totalitarianism. They WILL go one step too far. That's assured.

Now, even though I am firmly in the Avengers corner, I will admit; Thor's gut-punch to Velocidad: dick move.

Oh, and the idea of Iron Fist playing a key, central role in an event of this scale makes me giddy.

This is what I was thinking. The X-Men have taken over the world and cyclops probably has realized this. Too much power will corrupt almost any person (and giving power to cyclops in that magnitude is just insane). For a moment i though that this was perfect, that the X-Men were doing something right but....humanity cannot live under the control of divine level people who share human emotion. The president knew that humanity needs to move on by themselves to improve. That's why the avengers must take away those powers from those five before that power makes them do something they can't repair.

About Thor hitting velocidad.....it's called guerrilla warfare my friend. Act fast with no time to explain before the big guns come...specially if the big guns are phoenix powered mutants.

Freaking finally!!!

I've read too many comments of fans talking about who's the bad guy, without addressing the situation regarding these 5 X-Men apparently ending all of the world's problems.

the Phoenix Five are potentially making a paradise on Earth, who appointed them the de facto rulers of the world? No one. At the very least, they are eliminating all conventional weapons and WMDs in very country irregardless of sovereignty or those governments wishes. While what they are doing is for the good of the world, they are still imposing their will as opposed to being an example for others and allowing them to have free will.

This WILL NOT have good results as a flawed people can't accept order from "gods" with those same flaws.

The Phoenix has ended MANY BILLIONS of lives. It has to be stopped, no matter the cost.

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madrid_san

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@jubeiyagyuX: @jubeiyagyuX said:

@Hareil0079 said:

@jubeiyagyuX said:

@august27th said:

@jubeiyagyuX: Assaulting an officer of the law is illegal under any circumstance.

I know but kidnapping is also against the law.

Can't call something kidnapping if the person wanted to go in the first place.

Cyclops and Emma knows that, the rest of Utopia doesn't (do you believe cyke is gonna tell them that? Hell no) with that knowledge known, easier to rally everyone together and make the unity bonds stronger to attack and hunt down the avengers.

That was the second attempt and the Avengers didn't know she wanted to go.Avengers fans are just coming up with every excuse possible.They tried it the first time,failed and tried a second time.

Yah, all three of them! lol

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jubeiyagyuX

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@Hareil0079 said:

@jubeiyagyuX said:

@august27th said:

@jubeiyagyuX: Assaulting an officer of the law is illegal under any circumstance.

I know but kidnapping is also against the law.

Can't call something kidnapping if the person wanted to go in the first place.

Cyclops and Emma knows that, the rest of Utopia doesn't (do you believe cyke is gonna tell them that? Hell no) with that knowledge known, easier to rally everyone together and make the unity bonds stronger to attack and hunt down the avengers.

That was the second attempt and the Avengers didn't know she wanted to go.Avengers fans are just coming up with every excuse possible.They tried it the first time,failed and tried a second time.

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TDK_1997

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I was surprised how this issue was rather interesting and contained really interesting story building.

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Hareil0079

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@jubeiyagyuX said:

@august27th said:

@jubeiyagyuX: Assaulting an officer of the law is illegal under any circumstance.

I know but kidnapping is also against the law.

Can't call something kidnapping if the person wanted to go in the first place.

Cyclops and Emma knows that, the rest of Utopia doesn't (do you believe cyke is gonna tell them that? Hell no) with that knowledge known, easier to rally everyone together and make the unity bonds stronger to attack and hunt down the avengers.

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Edited By owie  Moderator

I liked this issue.  The series has been up and down for me, but even the worst issues are better than Fear Itself.  I felt a new spirit and hopefully that will continue.  I like the Iron Fist stuff that's been going on here and in New Avengers, that's very interesting to me.  Plus, that last line?  Great.

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madrid_san

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@jubeiyagyuX said:

@august27th said:

@jubeiyagyuX: Assaulting an officer of the law is illegal under any circumstance.

I know but kidnapping is also against the law.

This! Seriously, Earth's Mightiest Losers' (EML) fans (ya, all 3 of you!) need to stop trying to justify Captain Fascist' reckless actions. He and Obama (in AvX 6) are just control freaks and hate that someone else is calling the shots. Scott turned the other cheek after the EML slapped his other with a white glove. He even sent Colossus to save the lives of IF, LC, and SW and Colossus did so WITHOUT using force. They settled the battle peacefully. Did Rogers even thank the X-Men? No. He just suspected them further. His jealously and pettiness is getting embarrassing at this point.

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jubeiyagyuX

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@august27th said:

@jubeiyagyuX: Assaulting an officer of the law is illegal under any circumstance.

I know but kidnapping is also against the law.

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august27th

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@jubeiyagyuX: Assaulting an officer of the law is illegal under any circumstance.

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How is Cyclops exhibiting "extreme" behavior? He was wayy to easy on the Avengers.. They comitted breaking and entering, attempted kidnapping, and assaulted several of the students. They should have been placed into custody immediately. Also whats up with Hope? Now she is going to turn her back on the X-men because she turned down the Phoenix and feels like a 5th wheel? She is going to go with the person responsible for decimating 90% of the mutants? The avengers were dead wrong and Cyke in my opinion is displaying incredible patience

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Man this is getting heated! I loved that we got to see Black Panther in a bigger role I'm also VERY excited that Iron Fist maybe the key to all of this. Also....if Magneto is worried...we should all be worried.

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Edited By airbound_dude

This mini series suffers from too many writers. Personally I think this issue is the best so far for the simple reason that we see people like Beast and Black Panther acting like a voice of reason within the Avengers. Cap acting like Iron Man on Civil War is a clear indication of how low Marvel has sunk this character. You think that after everything that has happened Cap would be more diplomatic on this issue but nope. Still bent on winning even though the Phoenix Five can and has kicked their asses. But Cyclops acting as a jailer to Hope isn't helping. And then there's Wanda: the woman responsible for the destruction of mutants. There is a reason why Vision rejected her and is because she's crazy. But this while series is not an organic event but something made to stern the tide of DC's initiative.

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Nudeviking

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Edited By Nudeviking

@Chaos Burn said:

@Nudeviking said:

@Chaos Burn said:

best issue of the series so far, still not ground breaking yet - and all the sh*t with Iron Fist is too rushed and obvious

If you've read New Avengers at all in the past three months, it feels a lot less rushed.

I don't want to have to fork out extra just for key plot points, those kind of issues should be for if you want to read a particular character/team affected by the event. To be honest I'm bitter from buying Moon Knights Shadowland tie-in, about him searching for some magical sapphire that could stop Daredevil, and in the end of the series he loses it and it's never even mentioned in the actual Shadowland comic!!

No, I totally understand. The only reason that I know at all is because New Avengers is a book I pick up anyway. There was all kinds of that nonsense in Fear Itself. Without tie-ins those main books were fairly unreadable, but some tie-ins barely had anything to do with the actual event so it was a pain trying to guess which ones were important and which ones I could skip entirely.

I honestly think that AvX has done a pretty good job of keeping the story contained to it's own book. Reading the tie-ins that I have read (New Avengers, Wolverine & The X-Men, Secret Avengers) have pretty inessential, self-contained stories that barely tie to the main event if you will. The Iron Fist stuff feels a little less rushed though.

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Unknown_Blitz

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Edited By Unknown_Blitz

Ok, one thing I am wondering (and yes, I am an X-Fan), but I missed the issues where this happened. Did Cyclops (and does he still) have part of the Void locked away in his mind? I am wondering if this is true, if this explains part of his seeming personality change around/since Schism or if this part of continuity has been discarded.

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Ijan092

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Edited By Ijan092

By splitting into five host the phoenix is NOT more manageable those who read this issue carefully can tell that at the end of the issue display a more dark character plus if you read infinite it gives you more hits.

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LucifersLawyer

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Edited By LucifersLawyer

Gotta to love some of these commits. Lets look at this whole mess

X-Men: Fighting for survial, Mutants nearly wiped out by Scarlet Witch, under constant attack by anti-muntant forces. With the world watching the Avengers attacking their refuge Utopia some may get the bright idea that it's ok to attack mutants if Captian America is doing it.

Cyclops: Thrust into the role of leader of the entire Mutant species. Has been tryign to do everything possible to keep Mutants from going extinct, not an any task when the world fears and hates you and constantly seeks to make you and your kind extinct. Scott doesn't seem like the kind of person to just lie back and say do whatever you want to us, we won't do anything to defend ourselves.

Wolverine: If the Avengers "win" kiss the school goodbye, hard to think any Mutant would want to stay around with a traitor as he was refered to in AvX 2 by Sunspot. Most of the faculty has already left to join Cyclops side. If the X-Men "win" the same thing.

Avengers: Looking to take Hope into "Protective Custody" to keep the Phoenix Force from using her as a host. The Phoenix destroys whole solar systems on a whim when only slightly agitated, where the [CENSORED] do the Avengers think they can place Hope that the Phoenix won't be able to get to?

Captian America: May believe in what he's doing, but when Stark called him out for acting like he did during the Civil War, that might make most pause and rethink their course of action, but not Cap, he continues to blunder on full speed ahead without fully thinking through what his actions may lead to. When Beast and others advise Cap to slow down and look at other possible options he still goes on even though he has no real idea of what to do.

Iron Man: Phoenix disrupter armor- really? The Phoenix has been around since the creation of the universe, if other more advance races couldn't stop the Phoenix what was Tony drinking to think he had a snowballs chance in Hell of stopping it.

Scarlet Witch: Was looney, got better. Really? Since she depowered 90% of the Mutant race, Wanda hasn't really done much to make it right has she.This girl has some serious issues that need to be addressed and probably should not be involved with anything with infinte or near infinte power.

Iron Fist: May be the key to defeating the Phoenix, but once again at what cost. Anyone ever wonder why K'un-L'un and the other Heavenly Cities only only intercept the earth every 10 years?

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Chaos Burn

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Edited By Chaos Burn

@Nudeviking said:

@Chaos Burn said:

best issue of the series so far, still not ground breaking yet - and all the sh*t with Iron Fist is too rushed and obvious

If you've read New Avengers at all in the past three months, it feels a lot less rushed.

I don't want to have to fork out extra just for key plot points, those kind of issues should be for if you want to read a particular character/team affected by the event. To be honest I'm bitter from buying Moon Knights Shadowland tie-in, about him searching for some magical sapphire that could stop Daredevil, and in the end of the series he loses it and it's never even mentioned in the actual Shadowland comic!!

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Nudeviking

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Edited By Nudeviking

@Chaos Burn said:

best issue of the series so far, still not ground breaking yet - and all the sh*t with Iron Fist is too rushed and obvious

If you've read New Avengers at all in the past three months, it feels a lot less rushed.