Avengers Vs. X-Men #6 - Round 6

@KingofMadCows: @KingofMadCows said:

As for the whole "absolute power corrupts" thing, that's just a saying. It's not real wisdom doesn't really have real meaning. Heck, there are plenty of incredibly powerful characters in comics who are not corrupt. There's Odin, Thor, the Watcher, Iron Man, Professor Xavier, etc. If that saying is true then why aren't all the super powerful characters and godlike aliens and entities corrupt?

All those characters have succumbed to their emotions or ideals and used their gifts/powers in a way would seem morally questionable.

For example:

Odin - him taking Loki from his people

Iron Man and Prof, X - Illuminati. Nuff said.

That saying means that we are all human and thus have flaws, or emotions, and it's thru that that absolute power can corrupt us. Cyke is really unstable at the moment as well.....

Also the fact that people won't stay happy under the heels of "absolute" beings with the same flaws as them.

@ChillinVillain said:

@KingofMadCows: @KingofMadCows said:

As for the whole "absolute power corrupts" thing, that's just a saying. It's not real wisdom doesn't really have real meaning. Heck, there are plenty of incredibly powerful characters in comics who are not corrupt. There's Odin, Thor, the Watcher, Iron Man, Professor Xavier, etc. If that saying is true then why aren't all the super powerful characters and godlike aliens and entities corrupt?

All those characters have succumbed to their emotions or ideals and used their gifts/powers in a way would seem morally questionable.

For example:

Odin - him taking Loki from his people

Iron Man and Prof, X - Illuminati. Nuff said.

That saying means that we are all human and thus have flaws, or emotions, and it's thru that that absolute power can corrupt us. Cyke is really unstable at the moment as well.....

Also the fact that people won't stay happy under the heels of "absolute" beings with the same flaws as them.

Except that has nothing to do with the fact that they have power.

All those flaws humans have are unrelated to how much power they have. Emotions and ideals exist independently of power. Simply having power doesn't magically corrupt someone.

As for people not staying happy under the heels of "absolute" beings, how do you know that? History is dominated by emperors, godkings, and absolute dictators. Yet, despite the fact that most of them are corrupt and treat their subjects like slaves, they've managed to stay in power. What makes you think that people won't accept benevolent dictators who bring food, water, shelter, power, and peace to the world?

Not to mention the fact that most of the world still have very low standards of living. Think of the people living in North Korea, the state rations food so much that they're encouraging people to eat grass, they're forced to work extremely long hours under brutal conditions, they can't speak out against the government or they'll be executed. Would they really care if some godlike being came over, got rid of the brutal dictatorship, gave everyone food and shelter, and made sure they don't have to toil day and night under brutal conditions just to survive?

The fact of the matter is that most people in the world don't have the luxury of being unhappy with absolute rulers since they're still worried about the immediate needs like food, clean water, shelter, and basic survival.

@KingofMadCows: @KingofMadCows said:

@ChillinVillain said:

@KingofMadCows: @KingofMadCows said:

As for the whole "absolute power corrupts" thing, that's just a saying. It's not real wisdom doesn't really have real meaning. Heck, there are plenty of incredibly powerful characters in comics who are not corrupt. There's Odin, Thor, the Watcher, Iron Man, Professor Xavier, etc. If that saying is true then why aren't all the super powerful characters and godlike aliens and entities corrupt?

All those characters have succumbed to their emotions or ideals and used their gifts/powers in a way would seem morally questionable.

For example:

Odin - him taking Loki from his people

Iron Man and Prof, X - Illuminati. Nuff said.

That saying means that we are all human and thus have flaws, or emotions, and it's thru that that absolute power can corrupt us. Cyke is really unstable at the moment as well.....

Also the fact that people won't stay happy under the heels of "absolute" beings with the same flaws as them.

Except that has nothing to do with the fact that they have power.

All those flaws humans have are unrelated to how much power they have. Emotions and ideals exist independently of power. Simply having power doesn't magically corrupt someone.

As for people not staying happy under the heels of "absolute" beings, how do you know that? History is dominated by emperors, godkings, and absolute dictators. Yet, despite the fact that most of them are corrupt and treat their subjects like slaves, they've managed to stay in power. What makes you think that people won't accept benevolent dictators who bring food, water, shelter, power, and peace to the world?

Not to mention the fact that most of the world still have very low standards of living. Think of the people living in North Korea, the state rations food so much that they're encouraging people to eat grass, they're forced to work extremely long hours under brutal conditions, they can't speak out against the government or they'll be executed. Would they really care if some godlike being came over, got rid of the brutal dictatorship, gave everyone food and shelter, and made sure they don't have to toil day and night under brutal conditions just to survive?

The fact of the matter is that most people in the world don't have the luxury of being unhappy with absolute rulers since they're still worried about the immediate needs like food, clean water, shelter, and basic survival.

Actually it does, in that without the power/means they have those characters wouldn't be able to act on their emotion/ideals the way they did.

Emotions and ideals are separate from power, but it's that absolute power that allows us/people to feel like they can do what they want. The weak can't do anything in this world, which why we all strive to become stronger/more successful to be able to do what we want. Absolute power corrupts because it makes what were once limitations boundless and [can] leave us without a sense of consequence.

History is dominated by emperors, dictators, and god-kings, most of which don't exist anymore if the people of whatever community/society can help it. Just because such things happened doesn't mean that people will always accept it; at some point the mind-set of the people will change and once that happens those in power can no longer rule so easily.

Humans are selfish in nature, over time we would resent and question those in power seeing as those in power are human just like us (or at least share the same emotional and mental flaws). When human emotion is involved there's no such thing as regardless of the good those in power may do. The only thing in question is when such peace/compromise would collapse.

There will always be a struggle to live, the PhoeniX-Men creating "peace on Earth" is simply a delay of the inevitable.

Also there's the fact that what these five are doing isn't done for the homo sapiens, but for the insured survival of the homo superior. Eventually that mind set will take presidency and we will see the true reason for this so called "peace on Earth".

When I saw Cyke in space, it reminded me of a quote I heard in a video game:

"When you live among the stars, you lose sight of what is happening on the ground."

The "stars" being the power or one's success, and the "ground" being reality/truth/the life once lived/history/the little things/others/the struggle that is life. At least that's how I interpret it.

Thank's for responding as I'm enjoying this conversation haha.

@ChillinVillain: The whole thing reminds me of this

The fact of the matter is that most people simply aren't going to care. As I mentioned before, a majority of the world still live in poverty and have to worry about basic human needs. They'll just be happy that they get food, clean water, shelter, medicine, and safety from harm. As for the rest, they won't care that much either when all their material problems are solved. Heck, look at how little people care now about all the corruption in government, increase in corporate power, and human suffering around the world today.

You can talk about principles all you want but if they were true, just about every nation in the world would be facing rebellions due to how corrupt or inept their governments are.

@KingofMadCows said:

@ChillinVillain: The whole thing reminds me of this

The fact of the matter is that most people simply aren't going to care. As I mentioned before, a majority of the world still live in poverty and have to worry about basic human needs. They'll just be happy that they get food, clean water, shelter, medicine, and safety from harm. As for the rest, they won't care that much either when all their material problems are solved. Heck, look at how little people care now about all the corruption in government, increase in corporate power, and human suffering around the world today.

You can talk about principles all you want but if they were true, just about every nation in the world would be facing rebellions due to how corrupt or inept their governments are.

Of course, anyone would be happy to improve their standing but as that life improves people stop being happy with those things and start expecting more and taking things for granted; an example is the American Revolution.

People don't care about such things as corruption or an absolute dictation long as it doesn't disturb them directly. Most of us will think about our problems, whether severe or petty, before we worry about the suffering of another in some other country that has nothing to do with us; we do that everyday without realizing. In AvX, the entire world in affected by the PhoeniX-Men and thus everyone will care.

Also, I did say:

"The only thing in question is when such peace/compromise would collapse."

Everything has a pace that it goes at, and every pace is different. Some rebellion can't spark because the people don't have the means. Some don't spark because of fear, and the people are in of hope. Some don't happen because people have yet to realize that the path they're on is not the right path; like the Americas transition away from slavery.

Just because there aren't rebellions all over the world doesn't mean the world is satisfied with itself.

@Hareil0079 said:

@jubeiyagyuX I understand more than you know you nitwit!

Let me break it down to you what would happen in a court room for you to understand!

Avengers vs X-Men

Kidnapping Case Of Hope Summers

Avengers will be tried as "kidnap"

Avengers will make there plea (Hope wanting to go with Wanda who is an avenger anyways)

X-Men make their case "Avengers came in to take hope"

Avengers give their rebuttal

and it'll boil down to the judge asking Hope if she wanted to go or not of her own free will (Obviously we know the answer to that even if she went with Wanda who is and avenger and is seen later with avengers SM and IF in the latest issue of New Avengers so YEA she went with the Avengers!! big deal she left with wanda specifically)

Case Close! easy as hell to understand

The Avengers Knowing or not that Hope wanting to go is IRRELEVANT!!! (what do you not get its.. F*cking in front of you and easy to understand. I hate idiots who know nothing about law and are still in school and think they have everything figured out and they DONT)

As for AvX#7 and not knowing, the tie-ins are giving more away than the main story and hell previews of WatX#12 show the X-men hunting the avengers looking for Hope and asking where she is and what i've gathered from that doesn't sound like any other X-Men knows what happen. (Other than Cyke and Emma)

My statement still stands and your still an F'ing idiot

Thanks for the insult! It makes your argument much more compelling.

Also since you're the one no longer in school (according to you) why not go try to kidnap someone then get sued and come up with the excuse that he/she wanted to leave.Lets see how that goes.Of course Hope wanted to leave,we all saw that in the book but it doesn't change the fact that the Avengers "attempted" to.You cannot tell me that if someone attempts to commit a crime only to find out during the act that its actually going their way then everything's all ok. In other words,If I try to commit a crime and said crime was committed by someone else for example,but I'm caught It would be all peachy right? Good shit bro!! It might be so in your country but you don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out its not the same everywhere.

@jubeiyagyuX said:

@Hareil0079 said:

@jubeiyagyuX I understand more than you know you nitwit!

Let me break it down to you what would happen in a court room for you to understand!

Avengers vs X-Men

Kidnapping Case Of Hope Summers

Avengers will be tried as "kidnap"

Avengers will make there plea (Hope wanting to go with Wanda who is an avenger anyways)

X-Men make their case "Avengers came in to take hope"

Avengers give their rebuttal

and it'll boil down to the judge asking Hope if she wanted to go or not of her own free will (Obviously we know the answer to that even if she went with Wanda who is and avenger and is seen later with avengers SM and IF in the latest issue of New Avengers so YEA she went with the Avengers!! big deal she left with wanda specifically)

Case Close! easy as hell to understand

The Avengers Knowing or not that Hope wanting to go is IRRELEVANT!!! (what do you not get its.. F*cking in front of you and easy to understand. I hate idiots who know nothing about law and are still in school and think they have everything figured out and they DONT)

As for AvX#7 and not knowing, the tie-ins are giving more away than the main story and hell previews of WatX#12 show the X-men hunting the avengers looking for Hope and asking where she is and what i've gathered from that doesn't sound like any other X-Men knows what happen. (Other than Cyke and Emma)

My statement still stands and your still an F'ing idiot

Thanks for the insult! It makes your argument much more compelling.

Also since you're the one no longer in school (according to you) why not go try to kidnap someone then get sued and come up with the excuse that he/she wanted to leave.Lets see how that goes.Of course Hope wanted to leave,we all saw that in the book but it doesn't change the fact that the Avengers "attempted" to.You cannot tell me that if someone attempts to commit a crime only to find out during the act that its actually going their way then everything's all ok. In other words,If I try to commit a crime and said crime was committed by someone else for example,but I'm caught It would be all peachy right? Good shit bro!! It might be so in your country but you don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out its not the same everywhere.

As long as it's warranted (and in this case it does) my insults still stands! (don't give a D**n about compelling cause I'm an actor trying to win an award)

BTW your welcome since it got the desired effect on you.

ANYWAYS....moving along.

What part do you not get! Honestly, I broke it down for you how it'll run in court for crying out loud and you still can't grasp the concept!

At the end of the day it'll boil down to the kidnapped in question and as long as the Kidnapped agrees with the Kidnapper (regardless of their intentions) you got no case, it'll be dismissed and now trial will different. You can argue the kidnapped done so out of fear but guess what it'll be an up hill battle that would have to be proven and it'll still boil down to the kidnapped agree with that sentiment.

No where I'm denying what the avengers did or their initial intentions on capturing hope but it simply stands you can't call something a kidnapping if the kidnapped in question went on their own free will.

Your examples are meaningless and make little to no sense at all.

Cool issue. I've dug this event from the start though.

@Hareil0079 said:

@jubeiyagyuX said:

@Hareil0079 said:

@jubeiyagyuX I understand more than you know you nitwit!

Let me break it down to you what would happen in a court room for you to understand!

Avengers vs X-Men

Kidnapping Case Of Hope Summers

Avengers will be tried as "kidnap"

Avengers will make there plea (Hope wanting to go with Wanda who is an avenger anyways)

X-Men make their case "Avengers came in to take hope"

Avengers give their rebuttal

and it'll boil down to the judge asking Hope if she wanted to go or not of her own free will (Obviously we know the answer to that even if she went with Wanda who is and avenger and is seen later with avengers SM and IF in the latest issue of New Avengers so YEA she went with the Avengers!! big deal she left with wanda specifically)

Case Close! easy as hell to understand

The Avengers Knowing or not that Hope wanting to go is IRRELEVANT!!! (what do you not get its.. F*cking in front of you and easy to understand. I hate idiots who know nothing about law and are still in school and think they have everything figured out and they DONT)

As for AvX#7 and not knowing, the tie-ins are giving more away than the main story and hell previews of WatX#12 show the X-men hunting the avengers looking for Hope and asking where she is and what i've gathered from that doesn't sound like any other X-Men knows what happen. (Other than Cyke and Emma)

My statement still stands and your still an F'ing idiot

Thanks for the insult! It makes your argument much more compelling.

Also since you're the one no longer in school (according to you) why not go try to kidnap someone then get sued and come up with the excuse that he/she wanted to leave.Lets see how that goes.Of course Hope wanted to leave,we all saw that in the book but it doesn't change the fact that the Avengers "attempted" to.You cannot tell me that if someone attempts to commit a crime only to find out during the act that its actually going their way then everything's all ok. In other words,If I try to commit a crime and said crime was committed by someone else for example,but I'm caught It would be all peachy right? Good shit bro!! It might be so in your country but you don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out its not the same everywhere.

As long as it's warranted (and in this case it does) my insults still stands! (don't give a D**n about compelling cause I'm an actor trying to win an award)

BTW your welcome since it got the desired effect on you.

ANYWAYS....moving along.

What part do you not get! Honestly, I broke it down for you how it'll run in court for crying out loud and you still can't grasp the concept!

At the end of the day it'll boil down to the kidnapped in question and as long as the Kidnapped agrees with the Kidnapper (regardless of their intentions) you got no case, it'll be dismissed and now trial will different. You can argue the kidnapped done so out of fear but guess what it'll be an up hill battle that would have to be proven and it'll still boil down to the kidnapped agree with that sentiment.

No where I'm denying what the avengers did or their initial intentions on capturing hope but it simply stands you can't call something a kidnapping if the kidnapped in question went on their own free will.

Your examples are meaningless and make little to no sense at all.

wow that's lovely,and no it got no effect on me.Sorry internet dick-wavers are simply funny to me and nothing more.

Since it seems to get over your head I do get what you explained but like I said show me where in any part of the law attempted kidnapping isn't a crime and I'll concede your point.That's all I need.

@jubeiyagyuX said:

@Hareil0079 said:

@jubeiyagyuX said:

wow that's lovely,and no it got no effect on me.Sorry internet dick-wavers are simply funny to me and nothing more.

I know I'm posting to one name jubei right now it's hilarious.

Since it seems to get over your head I do get what you explained but like I said show me where in any part of the law attempted kidnapping isn't a crime and I'll concede your point.That's all I need.

It got it's effect cause your still responding and you still haven't got it.

Where have I said kidnapping wasn't a crime? (no where) Being I said the avengers would "Trialed as a Kidnapping in the case with hope" (Making in sense a CRIME) my point from the start till finish is that you can't call something a Kidnapping when the Kidnapped in question chose to leave of their own free will which if presented in court would probably and most likely be the saving grace/loop hole the avengers will have why it would be dismissed (Everything else is Irrelevant, whether the avengers knew or not hope wanted go, or the initial plan all irrelevant) That one factor, that one line is all that matters in the court of law. (kind of like in the movie Liar Liar if you ever seen that movie or its probably before your time) This where you fail to understand and don't get. Just to reiterate LOOP HOLE a lot of laws have these.

If you really got what I said this wouldn't have dragged on for so long and all you proved to me how much you also suck at reading comprehension as well.

@Hareil0079 said:

@jubeiyagyuX said:

@Hareil0079 said:

@jubeiyagyuX said:

wow that's lovely,and no it got no effect on me.Sorry internet dick-wavers are simply funny to me and nothing more.

I know I'm posting to one name jubei right now it's hilarious.

Since it seems to get over your head I do get what you explained but like I said show me where in any part of the law attempted kidnapping isn't a crime and I'll concede your point.That's all I need.

It got it's effect cause your still responding and you still haven't got it.

Where have I said kidnapping wasn't a crime? (no where) Being I said the avengers would "Trialed as a Kidnapping in the case with hope" (Making in sense a CRIME) my point from the start till finish is that you can't call something a Kidnapping when the Kidnapped in question chose to leave of their own free will which if presented in court would probably and most likely be the saving grace/loop hole the avengers will have why it would be dismissed (Everything else is Irrelevant, whether the avengers knew or not hope wanted go, or the initial plan all irrelevant) That one factor, that one line is all that matters in the court of law. (kind of like in the movie Liar Liar if you ever seen that movie or its probably before your time) This where you fail to understand and don't get. Just to reiterate LOOP HOLE a lot of laws have these.

If you really got what I said this wouldn't have dragged on for so long and all you proved to me how much you also suck at reading comprehension as well.

loooooooooooool! If it had the "effect" I would be throwing around insults like you. Unfortunately I don't believe in stuff like that so sorry bro.Try harder.

Your point as you say is different from what I am saying as if you took time to even read anything I said it would make sense. ATTEMPTED Kidnapping is different from Kidnapping.Yes,Hope went along with them but did it in anyway stop the Avengers from ATTEMPTING to? NO!!! Yes they did not kidnap her but they ATTEMPTED to.That is what I am saying and as far as I know attempting to do that is a crime.I dare you to try to commit a crime,be caught and because someone else actually committed the crime you say your are not guilty .Maybe where you come from that is the case but its not that way everywhere dude.Also,insulting or waving you internet genitals gets you no cookie! Sorry,going around insulting people wouldn't make your point (even if it were valid) heard.

@jubeiyagyuX You don't have to be insulting, that fact your responding to is proving the effect. Simple as that and Simple concept too (but simple things are hard for you to understand) So are loop holes (you don't understand that too)

Is stupidity a hereditary thing (and knows no bounds for that matter) for you cause where am I denying the Avengers not Attempting!

BTW as long as it's warranted my insults are valid and in your case it is. Your reading comprehension is REALLLLLLLLLLY Bad!

You haven't understood I thing I posted, not one, I'm wasting my time with you I've been repeating myself over and over again like a broken record and you still haven't got it. Do me a favor Stay in school and please stop doing drugs.

I've said what I've said on other threads and other users got me, your the only user who can't understand so it's over.

@jubeiyagyuX: @Hareil0079: Both of you get warnings for insults. Carry on and please have respect for each other.

After reading this issue, Captain is acting like an idiot like in issue number 1. I dont get the whole anti x men comments. If you read this issue clearly you can see how the avengers are acting out of turn. Anything that takes place now i feel would only be a reaction to all the things the avengers have been doing. Cyclops was right they don't care for mutants and treat them with disrespect. More and more I am starting to HATE wolverine at least beast had enough sense to see this is wrong. I can't wait till this event is over and the Whole world hates mutants again even the Avengers and Try to take some kids from the Jean Grey school. More and more I feel that Xmen should be a stand alone marvel book because with the presence of the other heros, it makes them look prejudice how they are never there or willing to help on any mutant crisis.

I do not agree with any of both teams decisions. But you cannot ignore that the Phoenix is dangerous and they should try to find a way to get send it away for good. Things never go according to plan when the phoenix is involved.

@madrid_san

I didn't even read your comment, but your avatar is a drawing of cyclops, your statement no matter what is invalid

@Yai_Inn said:

@Hareil0079: Your case is not entirely true. In court it would likely come down to how old the kidnapped is, and who has custody. Unfortunately it is a common case; child wants to live with one parent but the court has deemed said parent to be unfit. In the case of Hope, I have no idea how old she is, if she would still be considered a minor (does growing up in the future count?) If a court deemed the X-Men to have custody of her, it wouldn't matter if she wanted to leave or not. On the debate on who is in the right and who is in the wrong... I want to point to Christos Gage's X-Men Legacy issue 266 (a tie-in but my favourite issue of this series so far). The team is at the Jean Grey school and deciding whether or not they want to go to Utopia and join in the fighting. Rachel says "Kitty makes a valid point. But I'm one of the Phoenix's former hosts, and I was able to handle it. I believe Hope is up to this." Clearly the Avengers motivation is faulty, there's really no reason to believe that Hope with the Phoenix Force would destroy all life on earth.

What you speak of happens in a divorce and in terms of custody of a the child, this is different by many levels.

Hope can't handle the PF and she openly admitted that in AvX#5 but it still calls out to her cause it was meant for her to have.

I have and read that X-men legacy issue yea the PF can be controlled and Racheal proved that but she is different from her mother and her dad and is qualified to teach hope how to but not cyclops or anyone of the P5 for that matter since they denied Hope to have it.

@ADAMocracy: It's just as valid or invalid as yours. An eye for and eye, my friend. By the way, I am deeply saddened that you didn't even read my comment.

this series got so much more interesting with this issue, but i hate how its not very tied into the rest of MU. i understand not everything has to be on board, but with things like the renewable energy, for sure spider-man would be talking about it at horizon labs, and we don't get a mention of this at all in ASM. i wish things could be more like civil war was... oh well :/

@madrid_san No yours is more invalid now because you changed your avatar, in order to make my comment invalid. So hahaha!

@ChillinVillain said:

Of course, anyone would be happy to improve their standing but as that life improves people stop being happy with those things and start expecting more and taking things for granted; an example is the American Revolution.

People don't care about such things as corruption or an absolute dictation long as it doesn't disturb them directly. Most of us will think about our problems, whether severe or petty, before we worry about the suffering of another in some other country that has nothing to do with us; we do that everyday without realizing. In AvX, the entire world in affected by the PhoeniX-Men and thus everyone will care.

Also, I did say:

"The only thing in question is when such peace/compromise would collapse."

Everything has a pace that it goes at, and every pace is different. Some rebellion can't spark because the people don't have the means. Some don't spark because of fear, and the people are in of hope. Some don't happen because people have yet to realize that the path they're on is not the right path; like the Americas transition away from slavery.

Just because there aren't rebellions all over the world doesn't mean the world is satisfied with itself.

But any attempt to reform or make the world better carries risks. Creating a new source of power? What if some crazy dictator or terrorists get their hands on it and turn it into a weapon? Invented a new fertilizer that doubles production of crops and solving world hunger? Population growth could get out of hand and result in even more problems in the future.

The Phoenix 5 probably aren't going to turn the earth into a Star Trek Federation type utopia free from war, poverty, and crime, where everyone is enlightened and love each other. In fact, that definitely won't happen since if it did, Marvel wouldn't be able to sell any more comics.

And while people may very well rebel against the P5 out of fear, that's not really the P5's fault. When the Galileo was found guilty of heresy and imprisoned, do you blame Galileo for trying to convince people of the fact that the earth isn't the center of the universe or do you blame the people who tried to destroy him for trying to enlighten the world?