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Avengers Vs. X-Men #6 - Round 6 Review

4

The tables have turned as the Phoenix Force has found multiple hosts. What this will mean for the Avengers and the world remain to be seen. The battle isn't over yet.

The series has taken a new direction as the playing field has changed. Several X-Men are now powered by the Phoenix Force so does that mean there's no hope for the Avengers?

The Good

This series has definitely had its ups and downs. The idea of both teams fighting each other over Hope Summers and the arrival of the Phoenix Force set the stage for a grim battle. What resulted was a series of brief glimpses at fights between members of both teams. We've been seeing Cyclops and Captain America stand their ground in what they believe is the correct course of action. Cyclops has been making several speeches on how mutants are now being persecuted and all this is really just a way to try to control or hold mutantkind down.

With the Phoenix Force fragmented and attaching to five different X-Men, there's a new set of questions raised. The Phoenix Force was always too much for one person to contain. Could the fact that it's split make it more manageable? Then again, if the Phoenix Force is near infinite power, dividing infinity by five still results in an infinite amount of power that could be too much. We also have to look at why were these five chosen by the writers? Are they the perfect choice to contain the power or is one or more a weak link in this chain that will result in the inevitable catastrophic outcome?

While the issue deals with the newly powered X-Men using their power and the reaction of the Avengers and world, it's clear that something else is brewing. Besides the X-Men and the Avengers, we still have two unknown factors: Scarlet Witch and Lei Kung. Also, if you've seen the previous teaser for this second half of the series, you have an idea of something else coming.

This issue also brings about a change in the art team. Olivier Coipel, Mark Morales and Laura Martin make this feel like a completely different series. There are a lot of characters here and it's great to see Coipel's interpretations of everyone along with the fact that several X-Men and Avengers have been given tweaks in their costumes due to the circumstances of the story. It almost feels as if we're seeing a bunch of action figure variants with all the familiar characters, but in a good way. Marvel's marketing team should have been all over this in terms of merchandise to tie into this crossover.

The Bad

Gradually we've been seeing Cyclops become more and more…extreme in his way of thinking. He does have the future and survival of mutants on his mind but often feels as if his decisions and comments are rooted in hysteria. He has a big burden on his shoulders and clearly he's reminded of the loss of Jean Grey and most likely even Cable while trying to do what he thinks is best for Hope and mutants.

Speaking of Cable, we're still waiting for hints of events leading to that desolate future Cable saw in AVENGERS: X-SANCTION. Are we going to see all the tech used that Cable and Blaquesmith discovered in the Avengers Mansion in the future?

It's clear that the Avengers can't just sit back and watch the X-Men operate with the power of the Phoenix Force but I can't tell if it's admirable or insane that they think they can stand a chance fighting against the X-Men in possession of the power.

The Verdict

This is starting to feel like a completely different series for several reasons. Besides the change in art from John Romita Jr. to Olivier Coipel, the structure of the series has changed. Thankfully we're not seeing random battle after battle between members of both teams and it's back to feeling like there is more of a story going on instead of just seeing match ups that fans may have been wanting to see. The odds are not stacked against the Avengers but that adds to the suspense of the story. In the first few issues, it felt as if the Avengers kept getting the upper hand. Now that the tables have completely turned, we're back to wondering how the entire series will unfold. I started losing interest but I am hooked once again. With other players besides the X-Men and Avengers starting to show their hands, we're getting a sense that this could be the big story that it was meant to be. There are many unknowns and I am back to being kept in suspense waiting to see what's next. The series is back on track to where I want it to be. Thankfully we only have to wait two weeks for the next issue.

123 Comments
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Posted by Loki2u

ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz

Is this series over yet?

Posted by Pbott

Im really liking this series, and I disagree I take Cyclops side on this what do you expect him to do differently? lock him self up or kill himself. I think many readers are conditioned to think what has happened to mutants is not a big deal. But having millions of your own kind murdered is kind of a big deal and where were the Avengers? I back the X-men up 110% and still would if they go even more extreme because if over 99% of my race was wiped out I would be even more extreme.

Posted by EdwardWindsor

my main issue so far with hte 5 phoenix weilders is taht wasnt it previously stated taht phoenix force cna only occupy people omega class ? or am i imagining that?. Out of the five current holders all are alpha.

Posted by Oscars94

I'm siding with the Avengers on this one. The Phoenix may be divided between 5 powerful mutants but only one of them is a telepath. Also Cap only wanted Hope to be put in a secure place to save lives but Scott fired the first shot. First Colossus was given power by Cyttorak, now he's an Avatar of the Phoenix? That's highly unstable.

Posted by jubeiyagyuX

@Oscars94 said:

I'm siding with the Avengers on this one. The Phoenix may be divided between 5 powerful mutants but only one of them is a telepath. Also Cap only wanted Hope to be put in a secure place to save lives but Scott fired the first shot. First Colossus was given power by Cyttorak, now he's an Avatar of the Phoenix? That's highly unstable.

If a cop came to your front door demanding your sister,saying she's committed no crime but she just has to be taken away to some place you know nothing about and with force if need be would you not "fire the first shot?" Right now the Avengers are simply jealous that they don't have control and for the second time go in to take Hope.What for? To study how she interacts with the Phoenix? Holy hell why didn't they think of that before,well that's what happens when you're led by a retard.

Posted by JohnnyGat

@Oscars94 said:

I'm siding with the Avengers on this one. The Phoenix may be divided between 5 powerful mutants but only one of them is a telepath. Also Cap only wanted Hope to be put in a secure place to save lives but Scott fired the first shot. First Colossus was given power by Cyttorak, now he's an Avatar of the Phoenix? That's highly unstable.

I don't think telepathy is an issue here, one key trait with power is control and part of me believes that the stability of the power in the Phoenix Five (really corny name) relies more on the will of the individuals. Scott fired the first shot in terms of action but Cap's intentions were handled aggressively to the point that they were basically inadvertently taunting. And plus how are we all even sure that Piotr still has both Cyttorak along with his PF power, didn't the whole Serpent ordeal showed that Cyttorak does not play well with sharing hosts.

At this moment I'm siding with the X-men because they are at the moment making the world a better place. Feeding the hungry, giving free energy, preventing war, as a person whose lived most of my life in a third world country those things are key to my decision.

However at the start of the event I sided with no one for the simple fact that both could have gotten what they wanted without having to get in a fight. The Avengers wanted Hope in a secure place to save lives, the X-men wanted to train Hope so that in the event that the PF controls her she wouldn't be corrupted by it and use it's powers for good. Why couldn't the Avengers have just let the X-men train her in a secure location at that way should the Avengers fail to stop the PF at least there is the plan B. And I've also taken into account that Scott would disagree with attempting to stop the PF and the telepaths might find out about the intention should the Avengers keep it a secret and an answer to that is a simple phone call, stay away from the reach of their telepathy and tell them to train Hope where there won't be any nearby possible casualties should the PF corrupts Hope.

Posted by Black_Vulcan76

I could be wrong but I thought if a mutant was Omega class it just made them more likely to be an avatar for the Phoenix but wasn't a requirement?

Posted by gunwinds69

I am 100% with the X-Men on this one. They got bullied around by the Avengers, who basically wanted to lock up Hope for the foreseeable future (a "safe place" would be more like a cell that was phoenix-proof).

Now the Governmental powers-that-be who write Avengers paychecks are all insecure because the X-Men answer to no-one, and they're thinking, "Wait, if the mutants treat us like we've been treating them for decades, we're totally screwed!" It's the lack of control that has them shivering in their loafers.

I love that Scott is who he is in this issue. I'm a little sad that he's so hard-edged now. After the whole Messiah thing we were supposed to see a "New Cyclops." And we did, sorta, but that turned out to be him sitting somewhere calling the shots telepathically, while staying out of the action. Additionally, none of the writers recently have been able to properly demonstrate the tactical and strategic acumen that is perhaps Scott's greatest asset, and what made him such a good field leader.

Unfortunately, I think he is headed for the deep end without any floaties, and fast. He's been pushed too much, and unlike Xavier (the man of a million other cheeks) Scott has no cheeks that remain unstruck, and nowhere left to retreat to.

I can't see this series ending with Cyclops still being the leader of the X-Men. I just don't know how. The only thing that could bring him back from the brink would be if Jean appeared, took his hand, told him he's gone too far and to just let it go, and led him away somewhere for a little rehabilitation, therapy, etc.

I do agree with his underlying sentiment that, "Enough is enough! We're always the ones who have to yield, bend, retreat, and the time for that meekness has come and gone."

But if you are trying to stop the cops from hassling you constantly, burning down the sheriff's house and whupping up on all the deputies probably isn't going to help.

Posted by Markall

the Avengers are big idijts, no man with a healthy mind can side with them on this. They make no logic.

Posted by Oscars94

@jubeiyagyuX: Wow what a horrible example. The Avengers had a few Wild Cards too , (the Hulk, Wonderman, Yellowjacket). Now about my sister...if a cop came to the door and assaults my sister I'm entitled to perform a citizens arrest for unruly conduct on an inncoent civilian. Regarding the Avengers, why would they be JEALOUS of power? You seem to think that they want the Phoenix's power. No they don't. They want it subdued to preserve human life. The Phoenix can destroy Planets with breaking a sweat. Anyone would be terrified by that fact. Maybe Hope or the Phoenix Five can control it but the odds of them not getting corrupted by it are around 50/50:Not good odds for the 7 Billion lives on Earth.

Posted by Chaos Burn

best issue of the series so far, still not ground breaking yet - and all the sh*t with Iron Fist is too rushed and obvious

Posted by gunwinds69

The stuff w/ Iron Fist isn't rushed. It's been building up in New Avengers for a few months now. First we've seen it in AvX, though.

Posted by Oscars94

@JohnnyGat: You make a a valid point about the Phoenix Five (agreed corny name) , Cyttorak not wanting to keep fuelling Colossus' powers since he's been enhanced by the Phoenix and about the Phoenix Five helping the World. The one problem I have is Cyclop's mental well being. All of these events have reminded him of Jean and even Cable. If Scott turns rogue, what could stop him?

Posted by Drakoji

@Chaos Burn:

Maybe I'm crazy but I'm sure that when Iron Fist got his new White suit it was because of the phoenix, that's nothing rushed.

Edited by DATNIGGA

THOR: SILENCE BOY!!! OR I WILL OPEN THE SKY & RAIN LIGHTNING UPON YOU!!!

CYCLOPS: your threatening me with the weather? seriously? Lol

but yea.. the avengers are trippin. this event has a simple way of working... The avengers instigate things the x men finsh them & everyone looks at the x men as the enemy's for defending themselves

Though I like this event... I really do also it seems... Hulk is gonna be in this... THE REAL ONE

Posted by Chaos Burn

@Drakoji: really? I guess you have to cash in and buy all the side issues if you want it to make sense, now we're half way through Avengers vs X-Men and it's only just setting up an obvious fact that Iron Fist has a link to the phoenix and could be the key to stopping it

Edited by Hareil0079

@Chaos Burn said:

best issue of the series so far, still not ground breaking yet - and all the sh*t with Iron Fist is too rushed and obvious

Not the best but better than last. I still stick by my previous statements.. it'll go good for a while for the X-men but something is gonna go wrong and it'll go downhill for the X-Men. (Don't want that to happen but its gonna happen.)

I'm liking tie-ins more. The New Avengers (this weeks issue) clearly the best of this weeks release of comics. I'm only questioning now Is wanda and hope since they are obviously going to fight but the question is how and why? Also the Phoenix purpose. (Scott clearly denied hope the PF maybe slight foreshadowing of corruption?)

Gotta love Wanda's Pwnge on Scott

Edited by jubeiyagyuX

@Oscars94 said:

@jubeiyagyuX: Wow what a horrible example. The Avengers had a few Wild Cards too , (the Hulk, Wonderman, Yellowjacket). Now about my sister...if a cop came to the door and assaults my sister I'm entitled to perform a citizens arrest for unruly conduct on an inncoent civilian. Regarding the Avengers, why would they be JEALOUS of power? You seem to think that they want the Phoenix's power. No they don't. They want it subdued to preserve human life. The Phoenix can destroy Planets with breaking a sweat. Anyone would be terrified by that fact. Maybe Hope or the Phoenix Five can control it but the odds of them not getting corrupted by it are around 50/50:Not good odds for the 7 Billion lives on Earth.

No I don't think they want the Pheonix power,look only jealousy would make you go out of your way NOT to acknowledge the good things other are doing.Has humanity been destroyed? NO.The Avengers are no experts on the matter so why not consult with those who have the experience? Instead Capt.retard demands Hope and when he is rejected unleashes his fury.The Avengers have handled this badly no matter what anyone says.

Posted by Oscars94

Meanwhile their teammates are imprisoned on Utopia....

Posted by gunwinds69

It's called fear; it's what happens when those that hold power feel threatened. And it results in unjust action with the goal of surpressing the threat, maintaining the status quo, and the retention of power.

Cap is particularly susceptible to being told a good story and thus manipulated by those in authority. ("They've got weapons of mass destruction!" Sound familiar?) We all got duped by a scary story and the corresponding need to ensure our safety, so it stands to reason that some Avengers might, too.

Posted by Hareil0079

Thats my only disagreement. The avengers handled what conspired in issue 6 very badly.

Edited by Dernman

Wow I can't believe there are X-Fans still defending the X-Men. I mean even if you agreed with them before how can you not see they have just walked over the edge? eh forget answering. If you don't see it now there is nothing they could do that could convince you.

Posted by Dernman

@G-Man said:

The odds are not stacked against the Avengers but that adds to the suspense of the story.

Don't you mean are stacked or are now stacked? Sorry just nit picking. Good Review though.

Posted by Daycrawler

@Chaos Burn: @Chaos Burn said:

@Drakoji: really? I guess you have to cash in and buy all the side issues if you want it to make sense, now we're half way through Avengers vs X-Men and it's only just setting up an obvious fact that Iron Fist has a link to the phoenix and could be the key to stopping it

It's only like 4 issues of New Avengers that sets up the whole Iron Fist / Phoenix stuff. Hardly a bank-breaker in a Major Event type situation. They been setting up this since the event started via New Avengers.

Edited by DATNIGGA

@Dernman: what exactly did they do that was bad? really? they stopped fighting the avengers.. they used there powers to outlaw war & create peace. one of them even went so far as to save the avengers from an army of zzaxx's... they were chiling at there house the avengers break in there house Again beat them down Again.. The x men are forced to defend themselfs Again they trey to take hope against there will Again & once Again the x men are deemed bad guys?

If you don't see how the avengers keep starting things they cant finish now there is nothing that can convince you.

Posted by theicon

Cap is Right, this new militant X-men is not The Xavior Dream Proffesor X doesn't even agree with this. Scott i lost, and has gone crazy ( very cool change) even Magneto the great is worried, Mags is worried because Cyke is becoming worse then himself and thats pretty bad. Cyclops is like Apocalyse now. Would be cool to see Cyclops have a sitdown with Apoc, sinister, kang, magneto, and other villians Giving them the ultimatum.

Posted by Dernman

@DATNIGGA said:

@Dernman: what exactly did they do that was bad? really? they stopped fighting the avengers.. they used there powers to outlaw war & create peace. one of them even went so far as to save the avengers from an army of zzaxx's... they were chiling at there house the avengers break in there house Again beat them down Again.. The x men are forced to defend themselfs Again they trey to take hope against there will Again & once Again the x men are deemed bad guys?

If you don't see how the avengers keep starting things they cant finish now there is nothing that can convince you.

smh like I said If you can't see it now through those X-goggles there it would be pointless for me to get into. You see what you want to see. :/

Posted by TheAnnihilator

@Dernman said:

@DATNIGGA said:

@Dernman: what exactly did they do that was bad? really? they stopped fighting the avengers.. they used there powers to outlaw war & create peace. one of them even went so far as to save the avengers from an army of zzaxx's... they were chiling at there house the avengers break in there house Again beat them down Again.. The x men are forced to defend themselfs Again they trey to take hope against there will Again & once Again the x men are deemed bad guys?

If you don't see how the avengers keep starting things they cant finish now there is nothing that can convince you.

smh like I said If you can't see it now through those X-goggles there it would be pointless for me to get into. You see what you want to see. :/

Don't even try Dern, don't even try.

Posted by cfrehse

5 x-men with the Phoenix force makes the playing field even now in my opinion. Avengers had too many big guns

Posted by TheHeat
@Dernman said:

Wow I can't believe there are X-Fans still defending the X-Men. I mean even if you agreed with them before how can you not see they have just walked over the edge? eh forget answering. If you don't see it now there is nothing they could do that could convince you.

Dumbest post ever! X-Men created a peaceful world, yet the Avengers decided to crash in Utopia to kidnap Hope. Even Black Panther said that he did not support what the Avengers were planning to do. The Avengers, especially Cap and Wolverine, deserve to get their asses kicked.
Posted by Sleepbutnodream15

@lazystudent: I feel like the fact that it was divided into 5 parts was why it chose those non-omega class mutants; the phoenix was weakened and they were the closest choices.

Edited by Lokheit

Best issue so far, both in story and art.

About who is right, the fact that Beast and Black Panther, 2 of the 8 most intelligent men alive are against Cap's decissions tells you how dumb he's acting. Even Ironman, another of the 8, have questioned him before during the event, and Hank, another of the 8, in the few panels that he got, showed doubts of acting so straight forward against the Phoenix without knowing anything about it.

IMO this is about fear of loosing the status quo. The Avengers want to save the world but they want TO BE the ones saving the world and taking the medals. When someone comes with a bigger gun and do their job much better (to the point of being close to reach global peace, something that btw, would ruin a lot of companies with ties to the government that is paying the Avengers...), taking their shinny medals, they scream "look!! massive gun!! we must take them from them before they become too dangerous!" thinking that they're the only ones capable to make the right decissions because they're the shinny Avengers.

In fact, they don't know anything about the Phoenix Force, and their bigger expert (Beast) just gave up because he's against what they want to do. How would they understand the Phoenix Force by capturing Hope? Do they plan to kill her and explore her organs or something similarly evil? And the first attack was even dumbest: Utopia is known to hold the more secure prison in the entire planet... in case it would be necessary to hold Hope safe, there wasn't a safer place than that island, but no, again the Avengers felt like it was their obligation to take all the shinny medals for themselves!

Oh, and I liked the extra story with Scott having that wake up call. It seems like he will find the way to keep his humanity after all. But there will be a weak link going wild for sure. Peter and Illyana have been dealing with superior (and evil) power and are stoic (and russians!!) so I don't think it will be them, so my guess is either Emma (judging of the covers) or Namor because as the subsconcious version of Jean explained, the Phoenix amplifies people's emotions and both have been known for taking some wild and rogue decissions in the past.

As a last note, I don't want any of the Phoenix five dying, specially Scott and Emma because I love that couple (2 of my 3 favourite characters, and the other one is Nightcrawler who is already dead) and I hope at the end of this Scott and Emma marry because by then their work as protectors of mutanking will be done (break of HoM spell?) and they could focus on their personal lives a bit.

@Oscars94 said:

Meanwhile their teammates are imprisoned on Utopia....

This hasn't happen yet, this will happen in future issues following Scott decission at the end of this issue.

@theicon said:

Cap is Right, this new militant X-men is not The Xavior Dream Proffesor X doesn't even agree with this. Scott i lost, and has gone crazy ( very cool change) even Magneto the great is worried, Mags is worried because Cyke is becoming worse then himself and thats pretty bad. Cyclops is like Apocalyse now. Would be cool to see Cyclops have a sitdown with Apoc, sinister, kang, magneto, and other villians Giving them the ultimatum.

When does Magneto worry about it? And how exactly is Scott comparable to Apocalypse, someone who thinks the weak must be destroyed, or the old Magneto, a racist?

In fact he's helping the weak and humankind all around the planet providing food, infinity energy resources and banning war!

Posted by Dernman

@TheHeat said:

@Dernman said:

Wow I can't believe there are X-Fans still defending the X-Men. I mean even if you agreed with them before how can you not see they have just walked over the edge? eh forget answering. If you don't see it now there is nothing they could do that could convince you.

Dumbest post ever! X-Men created a peaceful world, yet the Avengers decided to crash in Utopia to kidnap Hope. Even Black Panther said that he did not support what the Avengers were planning to do. The Avengers, especially Cap and Wolverine, deserve to get their asses kicked.

If that was the dumbest this one just beat it.

Posted by TheHeat
@Dernman said:

@TheHeat said:

@Dernman said:

Wow I can't believe there are X-Fans still defending the X-Men. I mean even if you agreed with them before how can you not see they have just walked over the edge? eh forget answering. If you don't see it now there is nothing they could do that could convince you.

Dumbest post ever! X-Men created a peaceful world, yet the Avengers decided to crash in Utopia to kidnap Hope. Even Black Panther said that he did not support what the Avengers were planning to do. The Avengers, especially Cap and Wolverine, deserve to get their asses kicked.

If that was the dumbest this one just beat it.

Yes. The latest post you just made definitely beats it.
Posted by Dernman

@TheHeat said:

@Dernman said:

@TheHeat said:

@Dernman said:

Wow I can't believe there are X-Fans still defending the X-Men. I mean even if you agreed with them before how can you not see they have just walked over the edge? eh forget answering. If you don't see it now there is nothing they could do that could convince you.

Dumbest post ever! X-Men created a peaceful world, yet the Avengers decided to crash in Utopia to kidnap Hope. Even Black Panther said that he did not support what the Avengers were planning to do. The Avengers, especially Cap and Wolverine, deserve to get their asses kicked.

If that was the dumbest this one just beat it.

Yes. The latest post you just made definitely beats it.

Only to be out shined by every post you make since

Posted by TheAnnihilator

@TheHeat said:

@Dernman said:

@TheHeat said:

@Dernman said:

Wow I can't believe there are X-Fans still defending the X-Men. I mean even if you agreed with them before how can you not see they have just walked over the edge? eh forget answering. If you don't see it now there is nothing they could do that could convince you.

Dumbest post ever! X-Men created a peaceful world, yet the Avengers decided to crash in Utopia to kidnap Hope. Even Black Panther said that he did not support what the Avengers were planning to do. The Avengers, especially Cap and Wolverine, deserve to get their asses kicked.

If that was the dumbest this one just beat it.

Yes. The latest post you just made definitely beats it.

The fanboyism is strong with this one.

Posted by mattwing87

"Speaking of Cable, we're still waiting for hints of events leading to that desolate future Cable saw in AVENGERS: X-SANCTION. Are we going to see all the tech used that Cable and Blaquesmith discovered in the Avengers Mansion in the future?"

I doubt it. A friend and I talked with Jason Aaron at a signing here in Kansas City, MO and he said that since there are two different teams who did X-Sanction and AvX there won't be much correlation between the two and Cable will NOT be in AVX even though he offered his support for the upcoming "war" at the end of X-Sanction. I wish I would have waited till this series was in TPB but it has gotten better than it started out as.

Posted by scotsman151

@Dernman:

What is your actual argument for the Avengers being in the right though? All you're saying really is that if us x-fans don't see why we're wrong then we won't, but you've not exactly gave a strong argument to prove us wrong otherwise.

Posted by Master_Thief

Ironfist is going to end this watch

Posted by Daycrawler

@Dernman said:

@TheHeat said:

@Dernman said:

Wow I can't believe there are X-Fans still defending the X-Men. I mean even if you agreed with them before how can you not see they have just walked over the edge? eh forget answering. If you don't see it now there is nothing they could do that could convince you.

Dumbest post ever! X-Men created a peaceful world, yet the Avengers decided to crash in Utopia to kidnap Hope. Even Black Panther said that he did not support what the Avengers were planning to do. The Avengers, especially Cap and Wolverine, deserve to get their asses kicked.

If that was the dumbest this one just beat it.

What, your own post just beat the previous one as the dumbest?

Seriously though, you talk about how the X-Men have 'walked over the edge', but I think it would be more accurate to say that the Avengers are pushing them over the edge with plain dumb and aggressive tactics.

I could point out a dozen flaws with both the X-Men's and the Avengers approach to this situation, but at the moment the Avengers (specifically Cap and Logan) are essentially jabbing a hornets nest with a stick and expecting things to get better.

My heart supports X-Men and my head says Avengers, but at the moment I'm with the X-Men as the Avengers actions are just non-sensical and bound to provoke a potential threat into being an actual one. In my view, Cap's ego and need to be the savior are clouding his judgement.

Posted by Dernman

@scotsman151 said:

@Dernman:

What is your actual argument for the Avengers being in the right though? All you're saying really is that if us x-fans don't see why we're wrong then we won't, but you've not exactly gave a strong argument to prove us wrong otherwise.

I feel like I have debated my argument a million times on this site and a few others. Honestly tired of going around in circles that's why I didn't directly address anyone and mentioned my question was rhetorical. Don't feel like I'm blowing you off because I don't mean too. I'm just tired of trying to change peoples opinion and debating it. Now I'm just expressing my own thoughts.

Posted by scotsman151

@Dernman:

Only said cause I haven't seen any of your arguments.

Sorry, if you have a link to a previous post, fire it along and I can have a check!

Posted by jubeiyagyuX

@Dernman said:

@scotsman151 said:

@Dernman:

What is your actual argument for the Avengers being in the right though? All you're saying really is that if us x-fans don't see why we're wrong then we won't, but you've not exactly gave a strong argument to prove us wrong otherwise.

I feel like I have debated my argument a million times on this site and a few others. Honestly tired of going around in circles that's why I didn't directly address anyone and mentioned my question was rhetorical. Don't feel like I'm blowing you off because I don't mean too. I'm just tired of trying to change peoples opinion and debating it. Now I'm just expressing my own thoughts.

You don't need to change anyone's opinion.Simply state why you think the X-men are wrong.I'm not even an X-fan but after reading the book its clear they did nothing wrong.Yes,Scott and Steve have done silly things throughout the event but right now Steve and his cohorts are simply butt-hurt that the status quo has changed and are not even trying to actively work alongside the X-men but instead are pursuing their own agenda.T'challa and Beast clearly did not support their course of action for that very reason.

Posted by Dernman

@jubeiyagyuX said:

@Dernman said:

@scotsman151 said:

@Dernman:

What is your actual argument for the Avengers being in the right though? All you're saying really is that if us x-fans don't see why we're wrong then we won't, but you've not exactly gave a strong argument to prove us wrong otherwise.

I feel like I have debated my argument a million times on this site and a few others. Honestly tired of going around in circles that's why I didn't directly address anyone and mentioned my question was rhetorical. Don't feel like I'm blowing you off because I don't mean too. I'm just tired of trying to change peoples opinion and debating it. Now I'm just expressing my own thoughts.

You don't need to change anyone's opinion.Simply state why you think the X-men are wrong.I'm not even an X-fan but after reading the book its clear they did nothing wrong.Yes,Scott and Steve have done silly things throughout the event but right now Steve and his cohorts are simply butt-hurt that the status quo has changed and are not even trying to actively work alongside the X-men but instead are pursuing their own agenda.T'challa and Beast clearly did not support their course of action for that very reason.

sigh

Posted by TheHeat
@Dernman said:

@TheHeat said:

@Dernman said:

@TheHeat said:

@Dernman said:

Wow I can't believe there are X-Fans still defending the X-Men. I mean even if you agreed with them before how can you not see they have just walked over the edge? eh forget answering. If you don't see it now there is nothing they could do that could convince you.

Dumbest post ever! X-Men created a peaceful world, yet the Avengers decided to crash in Utopia to kidnap Hope. Even Black Panther said that he did not support what the Avengers were planning to do. The Avengers, especially Cap and Wolverine, deserve to get their asses kicked.

If that was the dumbest this one just beat it.

Yes. The latest post you just made definitely beats it.

Only to be out shined by every post you make since

Wow! That was an even dumber post.
Posted by Dernman

@TheHeat said:

@Dernman said:

@TheHeat said:

@Dernman said:

@TheHeat said:

@Dernman said:

Wow I can't believe there are X-Fans still defending the X-Men. I mean even if you agreed with them before how can you not see they have just walked over the edge? eh forget answering. If you don't see it now there is nothing they could do that could convince you.

Dumbest post ever! X-Men created a peaceful world, yet the Avengers decided to crash in Utopia to kidnap Hope. Even Black Panther said that he did not support what the Avengers were planning to do. The Avengers, especially Cap and Wolverine, deserve to get their asses kicked.

If that was the dumbest this one just beat it.

Yes. The latest post you just made definitely beats it.

Only to be out shined by every post you make since

Wow! That was an even dumber post.

And yet you keep getting worse. Seriously stop talking to me.

Posted by Hareil0079

@Daycrawler said:

@Dernman said:

@TheHeat said:

@Dernman said:

Wow I can't believe there are X-Fans still defending the X-Men. I mean even if you agreed with them before how can you not see they have just walked over the edge? eh forget answering. If you don't see it now there is nothing they could do that could convince you.

Dumbest post ever! X-Men created a peaceful world, yet the Avengers decided to crash in Utopia to kidnap Hope. Even Black Panther said that he did not support what the Avengers were planning to do. The Avengers, especially Cap and Wolverine, deserve to get their asses kicked.

If that was the dumbest this one just beat it.

What, your own post just beat the previous one as the dumbest?

Seriously though, you talk about how the X-Men have 'walked over the edge', but I think it would be more accurate to say that the Avengers are pushing them over the edge with plain dumb and aggressive tactics.

I could point out a dozen flaws with both the X-Men's and the Avengers approach to this situation, but at the moment the Avengers (specifically Cap and Logan) are essentially jabbing a hornets nest with a stick and expecting things to get better.

My heart supports X-Men and my head says Avengers, but at the moment I'm with the X-Men as the Avengers actions are just non-sensical and bound to provoke a potential threat into being an actual one. In my view, Cap's ego and need to be the savior are clouding his judgement.

I'm in the same boat, This event brought the worse due to poor writing and poor setups to boot.

The only thing I'll say is this. It's hard to call something kidnapping if the person in question being kidnapped chose/wanted to go in the first place and scott trying stop her was weak along with the avengers approach to the whole damn thing

Posted by jubeiyagyuX

@Dernman said:

@jubeiyagyuX said:

@Dernman said:

@scotsman151 said:

@Dernman:

What is your actual argument for the Avengers being in the right though? All you're saying really is that if us x-fans don't see why we're wrong then we won't, but you've not exactly gave a strong argument to prove us wrong otherwise.

I feel like I have debated my argument a million times on this site and a few others. Honestly tired of going around in circles that's why I didn't directly address anyone and mentioned my question was rhetorical. Don't feel like I'm blowing you off because I don't mean too. I'm just tired of trying to change peoples opinion and debating it. Now I'm just expressing my own thoughts.

You don't need to change anyone's opinion.Simply state why you think the X-men are wrong.I'm not even an X-fan but after reading the book its clear they did nothing wrong.Yes,Scott and Steve have done silly things throughout the event but right now Steve and his cohorts are simply butt-hurt that the status quo has changed and are not even trying to actively work alongside the X-men but instead are pursuing their own agenda.T'challa and Beast clearly did not support their course of action for that very reason.

sigh

...and yet all you keep doing is beating around the bush.Simply state what you think and that's it.

Posted by pspin

I got to side with the Avengers here. First I really wanted the X-Men to kick ass and take names but watching Scott suddenly start acting different caused me to go back and look at previous issues of UXM and I found that after Schism he started acting crazy, not just extreme. His extremism is understandable since 99% of mutants were wiped out in a moment but after Schism he started being a jerk, he was more concerned about having something happen so he could save the world instead of worrying about if Emma's arm was alright after it was chopped off and reattached. His extremism isn't his problem, it is his complete obsession with "the world is suddenly against us" mentality and his complete inability to even listen to anyone about alternatives to the situation that drove me away from the X-Men and to the Avengers side.

Also how is it that every X-Men suddenly became an extremist? Before this they might not have been best friends with the Avengers but they were nice, now they hate them.

Am I the only person who can't see Hope or the Phoenix Force surviving this? It makes me sad but I must admit I am really interested in how this series will turn out.

Posted by Dernman

@jubeiyagyuX said:

@Dernman said:

@jubeiyagyuX said:

@Dernman said:

@scotsman151 said:

@Dernman:

What is your actual argument for the Avengers being in the right though? All you're saying really is that if us x-fans don't see why we're wrong then we won't, but you've not exactly gave a strong argument to prove us wrong otherwise.

I feel like I have debated my argument a million times on this site and a few others. Honestly tired of going around in circles that's why I didn't directly address anyone and mentioned my question was rhetorical. Don't feel like I'm blowing you off because I don't mean too. I'm just tired of trying to change peoples opinion and debating it. Now I'm just expressing my own thoughts.

You don't need to change anyone's opinion.Simply state why you think the X-men are wrong.I'm not even an X-fan but after reading the book its clear they did nothing wrong.Yes,Scott and Steve have done silly things throughout the event but right now Steve and his cohorts are simply butt-hurt that the status quo has changed and are not even trying to actively work alongside the X-men but instead are pursuing their own agenda.T'challa and Beast clearly did not support their course of action for that very reason.

sigh

...and yet all you keep doing is beating around the bush.Simply state what you think and that's it.

Beating around what bush? I have expressed what I think in the past to death and now I'm done.

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