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Avengers Arena #3 - Earth Girls Aren't Easy Review

3

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The book switches gears to focus on Cammi as tension begins to rise among the heroes.

Warning! This review contains vague spoilers!

The Good

Yes, another long-standing character bites the dust (oh come on, like you didn't know that would happen?) and yes, it's sure to make quite a few of you pull your hair out. However, it looks like writer Dennis Hopeless killed said character for a very specific reason and this is something that can potentially generate some very interesting results if handled properly.

Kev Walker is undeniably the star of this book. His work is downright fantastic and almost every panel has something for your eyes to appreciate. There's one particular moment that really made me gaze for a bit. Walker has a panel of Darkhawk staring at a tree at night and a vast array of light is shining through the treetops. It's simply gorgeous.

There's plenty for colorist Frank Martin to work with as well. From Cammi's projectiles to Darkhawk's shield, this is just icing on the already delicious looking cake. Even if you loathe the concept of the series, there's no way you can sincerely criticize how excellent it looks. Oh, and the death scene? That's a page your eyes are sure to enjoy. Your brain? Perhaps not as much if you're a fan of the victim.

As for the story itself, a nice little variable is thrown into the mix. The young heroes have scattered into different groups (while some prefer being a lone wolf), but now someone is testing the waters and causing all kinds of trouble. It's a nice and very needed change of pace from the exposition that aims to teach us about each character.

The Bad

It's clear something big will come from the character's death, but right now it feels like said victim got the short end of the stick. I know many loathed Mettle's death, but at least he made a sacrifice. Red Raven's was to prove there's no escaping the scenario. But this? It's just going to upset a fair amount of people until we see what comes of this and even then I imagine that won't win some of them over.

A character suffers a mental breakdown after being humiliated and it seemed pretty drastic and abrupt. I can understand the reasoning... said character is young and in a terrible scenario, but this character has been through a lot worse (*cough* Annihilation *cough*).

The focus on Cammi felt like forced exposition to me. I thought Hopeless did a solid job with Mettle/Hazmat (developing an emotional connection) and then Deathlocket (introducing us to a new character), but here it literally felt like a heavy-handed biography recap of the character for new readers. I get that Marvel NOW! wants to lure in new readers, but this really slammed on the brakes for the book's pacing and could have been trimmed or modified to give it some more flare.

If you're wondering why Darkhawk is with the young group, you'll be happy to know a reason is provided here. It'll give you a decent laugh but it didn't feel like a firm explanation. Truthfully, it seems to me like Hopeless had an idea for Darkhawk and tossed him into the roster.

The Verdict

At this point you probably already have your mind made up about this title. If you're a big fan of AVENGERS ACADEMY or RUNAWAYS, odds are you're super pissed off that your favorite characters are being killed off (and believe it's just for shock value). If you fall into that category, then there's really no reason for you to pick this up because it's more of the same. Nothing here will win you over and you'd really just be spending $2.99 to complain. Save the cash and let Marvel know you don't like it by not purchasing it. It's really that simple.

That said, if you're not a die hard of those previous titles, then this series is at least worth checking out. It's not the most original concept around (Hopeless has even made jokes about that), but it looks superb thanks to Walker and it is indeed a fair dose of fun. Just because we've had a glimpse of later events doesn't mean we know how it'll conclude. Someone could save Hazmat. This could just be a virtual reality. So on and so on. I really hope Hopeless (say that 10 times fast) has an ace up his sleeve for us, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

***UPDATE***

I just checked out the preview for the next issue (was saving it until after I read #3) and apparently the character that "dies" is still alive. Naturally, this could be a ruse, too. We'll find out next month.

55 Comments
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Posted by RedQueen

*exasperated* Who's died now? Nico? Chase? X-23?

I get what Hopeless is trying to achieve, I really do, but I just don't "get" this book at all. He's trying to get an emotional reaction by including some fan-favourites, but surely he knows he's going to annoy readers by doing it. It kind of feels cheap, and not right for the characters involved.

Other than my apparent annoyance at this title, this was a great review.

Posted by kid Apollo

is anyone else surprised they busted out Cammi for this book? aside from the characters they created, most are relatively big names or have been in books within the last year or so. like youve got Darkhawk, Hazmat, and Nico Minoru, all big characters in their respective books. then on the other hand you have Cammi who wasnt exactly huge during Annihilation and then jus kinda faded out by the end of the series. as far as i can tell she was only mentioned once since by Drax

Posted by BR_Havoc

This book is just trash I was really trying to read it to the end but 3 issues in its just death and gore for the sake of it. There is no story at all it and frankly I hope its hard for Hopeless to get work after this train wreck is over. How many more months before this gets cancelled?

Posted by RedQueen

@BR_Havoc said:

This book is just trash I was really trying to read it to the end but 3 issues in its just death and gore for the sake of it. There is no story at all it and frankly I hope its hard for Hopeless to get work after this train wreck is over. How many more months before this gets cancelled?

Doubt it's going to get cancelled, isn't it only a limited series? Normally, if that's the case (and the sales are doing okish), the publisher just grits their teeth and gets all of them released. Unless it's doing really badly in terms of sales.

Edited by BR_Havoc

@RedQueen said:

@BR_Havoc said:

This book is just trash I was really trying to read it to the end but 3 issues in its just death and gore for the sake of it. There is no story at all it and frankly I hope its hard for Hopeless to get work after this train wreck is over. How many more months before this gets cancelled?

Doubt it's going to get cancelled, isn't it only a limited series? Normally, if that's the case (and the sales are doing okish), the publisher just grits their teeth and gets all of them released. Unless it's doing really badly in terms of sales.

I believe its an ongoing series which is crazy to me. The story is so paper thin and its just made to kill characters off and do it in gory fashion. I do not believe the book is selling well, many people I speak to ether read the first issue and quit or did not pick up any issues as soon as they heard the premise.

Posted by Jonny_Anonymous

yep, trash

Edited by RedQueen

@BR_Havoc said:

@RedQueen said:

@BR_Havoc said:

This book is just trash I was really trying to read it to the end but 3 issues in its just death and gore for the sake of it. There is no story at all it and frankly I hope its hard for Hopeless to get work after this train wreck is over. How many more months before this gets cancelled?

Doubt it's going to get cancelled, isn't it only a limited series? Normally, if that's the case (and the sales are doing okish), the publisher just grits their teeth and gets all of them released. Unless it's doing really badly in terms of sales.

I believe its an ongoing series which is crazy to me. The story is so paper thin and its just made to kill characters off and do it in gory fashion. I do not believe the book is selling well, many people I speak to ether read the first issue and quit or did not pick up any issues as soon as they heard the premise.

It's an ongoing? Oh, boy......

How the heck can they make this an ongoing? They'll run out of alive characters! Unless, it's a continual cycle of characters going in to the Arena, which would suck on such a huge scale.

Posted by sethysquare

this is bullcrap.

Posted by sethysquare

@RedQueen said:

@BR_Havoc said:

@RedQueen said:

@BR_Havoc said:

This book is just trash I was really trying to read it to the end but 3 issues in its just death and gore for the sake of it. There is no story at all it and frankly I hope its hard for Hopeless to get work after this train wreck is over. How many more months before this gets cancelled?

Doubt it's going to get cancelled, isn't it only a limited series? Normally, if that's the case (and the sales are doing okish), the publisher just grits their teeth and gets all of them released. Unless it's doing really badly in terms of sales.

I believe its an ongoing series which is crazy to me. The story is so paper thin and its just made to kill characters off and do it in gory fashion. I do not believe the book is selling well, many people I speak to ether read the first issue and quit or did not pick up any issues as soon as they heard the premise.

It's an ongoing? Oh, boy......

How the heck can they make this an ongoing? They'll run out of alive characters! Unless, it's a continual cycle of characters going in to the Arena, which would suck on such a huge scale.

it is what it is. hunger games gone wrong. and they had the cheek to be so blatant about it.

Posted by sora_thekey

Has this proved to be a good series so far?

Moderator
Posted by Target_X

@RedQueen said:

@BR_Havoc said:

@RedQueen said:

@BR_Havoc said:

This book is just trash I was really trying to read it to the end but 3 issues in its just death and gore for the sake of it. There is no story at all it and frankly I hope its hard for Hopeless to get work after this train wreck is over. How many more months before this gets cancelled?

Doubt it's going to get cancelled, isn't it only a limited series? Normally, if that's the case (and the sales are doing okish), the publisher just grits their teeth and gets all of them released. Unless it's doing really badly in terms of sales.

I believe its an ongoing series which is crazy to me. The story is so paper thin and its just made to kill characters off and do it in gory fashion. I do not believe the book is selling well, many people I speak to ether read the first issue and quit or did not pick up any issues as soon as they heard the premise.

It's an ongoing? Oh, boy......

How the heck can they make this an ongoing? They'll run out of alive characters! Unless, it's a continual cycle of characters going in to the Arena, which would suck on such a huge scale.

Yeah, it's supposed to be an ongoing, but he's already almost a third of the way through the 30 days. This issue took place on day eight...

Posted by RedQueen

@Target_X said:

@RedQueen said:

@BR_Havoc said:

@RedQueen said:

@BR_Havoc said:

This book is just trash I was really trying to read it to the end but 3 issues in its just death and gore for the sake of it. There is no story at all it and frankly I hope its hard for Hopeless to get work after this train wreck is over. How many more months before this gets cancelled?

Doubt it's going to get cancelled, isn't it only a limited series? Normally, if that's the case (and the sales are doing okish), the publisher just grits their teeth and gets all of them released. Unless it's doing really badly in terms of sales.

I believe its an ongoing series which is crazy to me. The story is so paper thin and its just made to kill characters off and do it in gory fashion. I do not believe the book is selling well, many people I speak to ether read the first issue and quit or did not pick up any issues as soon as they heard the premise.

It's an ongoing? Oh, boy......

How the heck can they make this an ongoing? They'll run out of alive characters! Unless, it's a continual cycle of characters going in to the Arena, which would suck on such a huge scale.

Yeah, it's supposed to be an ongoing, but he's already almost a third of the way through the 30 days. This issue took place on day eight...

Huh. Well, we'll see where it goes.

As long as they don't kill off the aforementioned Nico,Chase,X-23 I'll be ok. But, chances are Hopeless is going to kill at least one of them off for the "OMG, did not see that happening" reaction he's undoubtedly looking for. (Which we're actually anticipating... so perhaps, he'll do the opposite.....)

Posted by Mucklefluga

This book seems cool i just don't have the monies to afford it.

Posted by lifeboy

Trash wrapped in intellectual property theft. I dont speak bad of anyones work but when people steal others ideas and put there name on it for personal gain then that gives me the right.

Posted by Target_X

@RedQueen said:

@Target_X said:

@RedQueen said:

@BR_Havoc said:

@RedQueen said:

@BR_Havoc said:

This book is just trash I was really trying to read it to the end but 3 issues in its just death and gore for the sake of it. There is no story at all it and frankly I hope its hard for Hopeless to get work after this train wreck is over. How many more months before this gets cancelled?

Doubt it's going to get cancelled, isn't it only a limited series? Normally, if that's the case (and the sales are doing okish), the publisher just grits their teeth and gets all of them released. Unless it's doing really badly in terms of sales.

I believe its an ongoing series which is crazy to me. The story is so paper thin and its just made to kill characters off and do it in gory fashion. I do not believe the book is selling well, many people I speak to ether read the first issue and quit or did not pick up any issues as soon as they heard the premise.

It's an ongoing? Oh, boy......

How the heck can they make this an ongoing? They'll run out of alive characters! Unless, it's a continual cycle of characters going in to the Arena, which would suck on such a huge scale.

Yeah, it's supposed to be an ongoing, but he's already almost a third of the way through the 30 days. This issue took place on day eight...

Huh. Well, we'll see where it goes.

As long as they don't kill off the aforementioned Nico,Chase,X-23 I'll be ok. But, chances are Hopeless is going to kill at least one of them off for the "OMG, did not see that happening" reaction he's undoubtedly looking for. (Which we're actually anticipating... so perhaps, he'll do the opposite.....)

Yeah, I'm already upset enough about Mettle. I wouldn't mind Chase so much, but it would still make me angry. Nico or Laura though.... I'm not allowed to make death threats on here am I? <.<

Posted by BR_Havoc

@RedQueen said:

@Target_X said:

@RedQueen said:

@BR_Havoc said:

@RedQueen said:

@BR_Havoc said:

This book is just trash I was really trying to read it to the end but 3 issues in its just death and gore for the sake of it. There is no story at all it and frankly I hope its hard for Hopeless to get work after this train wreck is over. How many more months before this gets cancelled?

Doubt it's going to get cancelled, isn't it only a limited series? Normally, if that's the case (and the sales are doing okish), the publisher just grits their teeth and gets all of them released. Unless it's doing really badly in terms of sales.

I believe its an ongoing series which is crazy to me. The story is so paper thin and its just made to kill characters off and do it in gory fashion. I do not believe the book is selling well, many people I speak to ether read the first issue and quit or did not pick up any issues as soon as they heard the premise.

It's an ongoing? Oh, boy......

How the heck can they make this an ongoing? They'll run out of alive characters! Unless, it's a continual cycle of characters going in to the Arena, which would suck on such a huge scale.

Yeah, it's supposed to be an ongoing, but he's already almost a third of the way through the 30 days. This issue took place on day eight...

Huh. Well, we'll see where it goes.

As long as they don't kill off the aforementioned Nico,Chase,X-23 I'll be ok. But, chances are Hopeless is going to kill at least one of them off for the "OMG, did not see that happening" reaction he's undoubtedly looking for. (Which we're actually anticipating... so perhaps, he'll do the opposite.....)

I think people might be right and have this in a virtual reality or something. So we might see them all get wiped out only for them to wake up and have to deal with all of the after shock of what they are capable of doing if put into this situation. I guess that is the only good that could come out of this book.

Posted by usabfb

I feel that me and my friend are the only two people in the world that like this series, like the characters, and don't really mind that they're going to get killed/already dead.

Posted by Daycrawler

@usabfb said:

I feel that me and my friend are the only two people in the world that like this series, like the characters, and don't really mind that they're going to get killed/already dead.

Make that three. I'm hugely enjoying this series so far.

Posted by TheAcidSkull

this was relatively decent but still....meh....

Online
Posted by hectorsquall

@k4tzm4n said:

At this point you probably already have your mind made up about this title. If you're a big fan of AVENGERS ACADEMY or RUNAWAYS, odds are you're super pissed off that your favorite characters are being killed off (and believe it's just for shock value). If you fall into that category, then there's really no reason for you to pick this up because it's more of the same. Nothing here will win you over and you'd really just be spending $2.99 to complain. Save the cash and let Marvel know you don't like it by not purchasing it. It's really that simple.

Very good advice, indeed. I personally fall into that category and after checking out this series I found myself deeply disappointed hence why I'm not purchasing it. Those who feel the same should maybe borrow a copy from a friend if they really want details about what happens but it'd be stupid to keep buying it.

@BR_Havoc said:

This book is just trash I was really trying to read it to the end but 3 issues in its just death and gore for the sake of it. There is no story at all it and frankly I hope its hard for Hopeless to get work after this train wreck is over. How many more months before this gets cancelled?

So true... It's a shame though, maybe he isn't such a bad writer but after this I'm not really inclined to support him in any way, shape, or form.

Posted by Daycrawler

@lifeboy said:

Trash wrapped in intellectual property theft. I dont speak bad of anyones work but when people steal others ideas and put there name on it for personal gain then that gives me the right.

Property theft? Steal? Being a bit dramatic aren't we? By your logic, that would make hunger games theft re: battle royale and THAT would be property theft of lord of the flies. Savage Land would be a rip off of Conan Doyle's Lost World, etc.

I get that you don't like the concept or that it uses recently popularised ideas, but it's forging it's own path and hasn't outright stolen anything.

Edited by scuzz2.0

I thought this issue was pretty good.

But who is it you think died exactly? The sentinel took a beating and DH got his power thingy ripped out but no one said anything about anyone dying. Did i miss something?

Posted by Shipster360

for me the first time i read Hunger Games and watched the movie I thought "This would be really cool with the Teen Titans or Young Justice or something." i didnt exactly get that but the same concept remains. young superheroes forced to fight to the death. isnt this what people always argue about anyway? who would win? i highly doubt any of this is permanent so lets just enjoy it for what it is and root for our favorites to come out on top.

Edited by k4tzm4n

@scuzz2.0 said:

I thought this issue was pretty good.

But who is it you think died exactly? The sentinel took a beating and DH got his power thingy ripped out but no one said anything about anyone dying. Did i miss something?

I updated this review awhile ago (check the bottom).

SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.

I was under the impression Darkhawk died since he was impaled through the chest and had the amulet removed.

Staff
Posted by Cafeterialoca

@Shipster360 said:

for me the first time i read Hunger Games and watched the movie I thought "This would be really cool with the Teen Titans or Young Justice or something." i didnt exactly get that but the same concept remains. young superheroes forced to fight to the death. isnt this what people always argue about anyway? who would win? i highly doubt any of this is permanent so lets just enjoy it for what it is and root for our favorites to come out on top.

Except it usually is permanent when it's teen heroes. That's why the book stings so much.

Posted by scuzz2.0

@k4tzm4n: IF he does die I'll be pissed. What a wast of a character.

SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.
Maybe the person on the cover for #4 is the person that stole his amulet. because even if he is still alive it would seem rather pointless to lose his power only to get it back the very next issue.
Posted by RedQueen

@BR_Havoc said:

@RedQueen said:

@Target_X said:

@RedQueen said:

@BR_Havoc said:

@RedQueen said:

@BR_Havoc said:

This book is just trash I was really trying to read it to the end but 3 issues in its just death and gore for the sake of it. There is no story at all it and frankly I hope its hard for Hopeless to get work after this train wreck is over. How many more months before this gets cancelled?

Doubt it's going to get cancelled, isn't it only a limited series? Normally, if that's the case (and the sales are doing okish), the publisher just grits their teeth and gets all of them released. Unless it's doing really badly in terms of sales.

I believe its an ongoing series which is crazy to me. The story is so paper thin and its just made to kill characters off and do it in gory fashion. I do not believe the book is selling well, many people I speak to ether read the first issue and quit or did not pick up any issues as soon as they heard the premise.

It's an ongoing? Oh, boy......

How the heck can they make this an ongoing? They'll run out of alive characters! Unless, it's a continual cycle of characters going in to the Arena, which would suck on such a huge scale.

Yeah, it's supposed to be an ongoing, but he's already almost a third of the way through the 30 days. This issue took place on day eight...

Huh. Well, we'll see where it goes.

As long as they don't kill off the aforementioned Nico,Chase,X-23 I'll be ok. But, chances are Hopeless is going to kill at least one of them off for the "OMG, did not see that happening" reaction he's undoubtedly looking for. (Which we're actually anticipating... so perhaps, he'll do the opposite.....)

I think people might be right and have this in a virtual reality or something. So we might see them all get wiped out only for them to wake up and have to deal with all of the after shock of what they are capable of doing if put into this situation. I guess that is the only good that could come out of this book.

....but...that in itself is soo predictable. I really don't know how I feel about this title anymore, I think I'm just believing it doesn't exist. Yep, that works. Stoic indifference.

Posted by k4tzm4n

@scuzz2.0 said:

@k4tzm4n: IF he does die I'll be pissed. What a wast of a character.

SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.
Maybe the person on the cover for #4 is the person that stole his amulet. because even if he is still alive it would seem rather pointless to lose his power only to get it back the very next issue.

Your spoiler seems like a probable outcome. I guess we'll find out next month.

Staff
Edited by Daycrawler

@k4tzm4n said:

@scuzz2.0 said:

@k4tzm4n: IF he does die I'll be pissed. What a wast of a character.

SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.
Maybe the person on the cover for #4 is the person that stole his amulet. because even if he is still alive it would seem rather pointless to lose his power only to get it back the very next issue.

Your spoiler seems like a probable outcome. I guess we'll find out next month.

Issue 3 has jumped ahead 7 days from issues 1 & 2 though, so I reckon that the person is dead (or severely injured?) and issue 4 will skip back in time a few days to see this person in action. Given that we've still to find out the score with Juston (as his situation was being discussed in pass tense) i think there may be a fair bit of bouncing back and forth in time. It happened in issue 1 (Hazmat v X23).

Edit: Just flicked through my copy of AA 3 and realised a bunch of pages are missing (inc. ones with Juston and his Sentinel)! Back to the comic store tomorrow then.....

Posted by wisesonAC

i still love this book. i really hope its worth it in the end though.

Posted by silentecko711

I'm definitely loving this series has kinda of original secret wars feel to it on top of the whole hunger games battle royale aspect. There's definitely something going on and I don't know if anybody noticed but the mystery shadowy person seems to have Magnetic powers ?? Maybe more people than we know in the arena maybe Victor Mancha (magnetic powers) ??

Posted by scuzz2.0

@Daycrawler: I hope that's not the case.

SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.
Darkhawk is the most established character and the most or second most popular character in the book. If they kill him off in such a crap way i will be totally pissed.

That sucks about your copy. They should give you your money back and give you a replacement for free. at least.

Posted by Daycrawler

@scuzz2.0 said:

@Daycrawler: I hope that's not the case.

SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.
Darkhawk is the most established character and the most or second most popular character in the book. If they kill him off in such a crap way i will be totally pissed.

That sucks about your copy. They should give you your money back and give you a replacement for free. at least.

Yeah I hope it's not true too. Would suck if the death was real. Would be good to get a free, full page count copy though :) Here's hoping,

Posted by SUNMAN

@usabfb said:

I feel that me and my friend are the only two people in the world that like this series, like the characters, and don't really mind that they're going to get killed/already dead.

I'm not reading the series and I probably won't. But I don't get why people are so outraged over it. This seems like typical marvel. Certain characters will ultimately get killed off, the popular ones eventually come back sooner or later.

This book from what I gather is just following that gladiatorial murder game scenario. I bet people would love this if Kirman was writing.

Posted by BR_Havoc

@RedQueen said:

@BR_Havoc said:

@RedQueen said:

@Target_X said:

@RedQueen said:

@BR_Havoc said:

@RedQueen said:

@BR_Havoc said:

This book is just trash I was really trying to read it to the end but 3 issues in its just death and gore for the sake of it. There is no story at all it and frankly I hope its hard for Hopeless to get work after this train wreck is over. How many more months before this gets cancelled?

Doubt it's going to get cancelled, isn't it only a limited series? Normally, if that's the case (and the sales are doing okish), the publisher just grits their teeth and gets all of them released. Unless it's doing really badly in terms of sales.

I believe its an ongoing series which is crazy to me. The story is so paper thin and its just made to kill characters off and do it in gory fashion. I do not believe the book is selling well, many people I speak to ether read the first issue and quit or did not pick up any issues as soon as they heard the premise.

It's an ongoing? Oh, boy......

How the heck can they make this an ongoing? They'll run out of alive characters! Unless, it's a continual cycle of characters going in to the Arena, which would suck on such a huge scale.

Yeah, it's supposed to be an ongoing, but he's already almost a third of the way through the 30 days. This issue took place on day eight...

Huh. Well, we'll see where it goes.

As long as they don't kill off the aforementioned Nico,Chase,X-23 I'll be ok. But, chances are Hopeless is going to kill at least one of them off for the "OMG, did not see that happening" reaction he's undoubtedly looking for. (Which we're actually anticipating... so perhaps, he'll do the opposite.....)

I think people might be right and have this in a virtual reality or something. So we might see them all get wiped out only for them to wake up and have to deal with all of the after shock of what they are capable of doing if put into this situation. I guess that is the only good that could come out of this book.

....but...that in itself is soo predictable. I really don't know how I feel about this title anymore, I think I'm just believing it doesn't exist. Yep, that works. Stoic indifference.

You say its predictable but what about this book has not been? I mean its 3 issues in and we have so many people already saying that it sucks and that they are going to act as if this book does not exist so maybe a predictable ending like that is going to be the only thing that saves this book that has been a train wreck so far.

Posted by Gonzo33

I was enjoying this issue until the last 2 pages, then the art got messy during the fight and I was like "what's going on?" *turns page* "how did that happen?". I feel like this story by the end is going to take the cheap way out... Simulator etc

Posted by papad1992

I'm enjoying the series thus far... then again, I'm not saying that it's one of the best titles out there right now, just enjoyable! I think Hopeless is smart for cashing in on the hype that brought Hunger Games fans! Basically it's like saying, "while you guys wait till the Hunger Games' sequel to be released... here's a comic book series of the same concept, only these teenagers have powers!"

Here's hoping for a much more deeper story though... but it's only three issues in so haters stop hating!!!!

Posted by Owie

I didn't realize Cammi was in this...I actually liked her character in Annihilation a lot.  Is it worth picking up for her, or is she kind of background here so far?

Posted by akbogert

@Owie: That quite depends. If you believe this series has a hope of being cancelled due to poor sales, then it'd be worth not picking up if you like her enough to want to see her live. If you just want to see her, and don't care about the series one way or the other, then probably, as the art and writing (quality, anyway) have both largely been praised on this book.

I suppose that also assumes you believe these deaths are real (signs suggest that to be the case) and permanent (almost definitely the case if they're real), because otherwise this is all just meaningless and maybe even a good thing if it serves to develop characters for actual use later on in the Marvel universe. At this point we're all just guessing.

Posted by Ellie_Knightfall

This book is pretty much everything that's wrong with comics.

Posted by akbogert

@Ellie_Knightfall: Quite agreed. I've only recently gotten back into reading and everything I see about Arena has me wishing I hadn't.

Worth noting: I actually just created a Comic Vine account to join in this specific conversation. Not that I don't plan to actually use the site more broadly (I've been lurking it for a while now), but it gets a bit disheartening seemingly talking to oneself in the blogosphere. Misery loves company, I suppose?

Posted by Dragonage2ftw

@SUNMAN said:

@usabfb said:

I feel that me and my friend are the only two people in the world that like this series, like the characters, and don't really mind that they're going to get killed/already dead.

I'm not reading the series and I probably won't. But I don't get why people are so outraged over it. This seems like typical marvel. Certain characters will ultimately get killed off, the popular ones eventually come back sooner or later.

This book from what I gather is just following that gladiatorial murder game scenario. I bet people would love this if Kirman was writing.

@SUNMAN Except that these teenage hero's are more likely too stay dead. Kirkman wouldn't write something this crappy in concept, but if he did, it'd be sure as heck better then the heap of literary vomit we have now.

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Posted by Tyrannotaur

I read through all these comments on here and all I see is predominately negative opinions. "This book sucks" "It's trash" "This is everything wrong with comics". This all makes me question if we are reading the same comic here. I have been enjoying Avengers Arena alot so far. It's actually one of my top picks from the Marvel NOW lineup, It's not the best thing to come out of it, but its up there. I can see people being passionate about characters they really like. Trust me, if X-23 died in the first issue I'd be annoyed as well. I understand it sucks when a character you like is killed off. But honestly this is nothing new. Marvel does this all the time (look what just happened to Spider-man, or in AvX). We have no idea of knowing how permanent any of the deaths are, and chances are with the exception of the more obscure characters no one who dies in this book will stay dead forever. DC has been killing off characters for about a year now with Suicide Squad, and I haven't heard any outrage over that. The deaths in this series are at least done for a solid reason.

SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.
Mettle went out like a champ to defend his girlfriend. After reading Avengers Academy, if Mettle hadn't stepped up and just let Hazmat die, then it would be completely out of character for him. Sure it sucks he died, but I would rather him die protecting the girl he loved then die crying in the corner cause he couldn't save her. He was a true hero. Red Raven I know nothing about, from what I understand she is a pretty old character though. Her death as pointless as it seems was to show there is no escaping the island. It helps to make the scenario way more intense when you know there is no escape for these characters.

People are free to dislike this book all they want. I happen to enjoy it. Even if X-23 somehow dies in it this series I doubt it will be permanent. Hopeless is doing a good job with the story. I don't really understand how anyone could call this series bad writing. I enjoy how each issue so far as been a introductory story into each of the "competitors". Helps to show what is at stake for each character. People get so worked up over all the death that they are blinded to the good parts of the story. Everything I liked about stuff like The Hunger Games and even movies like I Am Legend is present in this comic and I really enjoy that. Finding hope in the hopelessness of a terrible situation for example. The art too is amazing. I get the hate as far as X character being thrown into a dire situation where they will probably die. I understand the dread that these characters may die and not ever be seen again. But that is sort of the point of a survival story, no? What I don't get is people calling it horribly written or the worse thing in comics. There have been FAR worse comics than this. I really think that alot of people just like to hear themselves complain, which is their right. So go ahead complain, I'm gonna keep enjoying this series.

Edited by hyenascar

@BR_Havoc: @lifeboy: Alright big drama. If this is stolen. Tell me what isn't. Sorry, but your barking up the wrong tree. Is this any different than both dc and marvel having olympic and Norse gods, or Christian and Bhuddist themes throughout. ETC, ETC, ETC, ETC.

Hunger Games from Battle Royale from Lord of the Flies from Call of the Wild. (Call of the Wild is essentially an animal version of Lord of the Flies.) So according to your stunning ability to make all plots all inclusive when determining plot originality none of these are even original.

You are not even looking at what this story would really be stealing. The main villain is committing copycat murders

Posted by hyenascar

@sora_thekey: Despite the anger of many of the people in here, it has been written very well. Most of the people who read this without per-determined anger enjoyed it. It's a very harsh setting, true. What people are missing is this excellent look into how these heroes would act in these extreme examples.

Posted by Daycrawler

@Tyrannotaur said:

I read through all these comments on here and all I see is predominately negative opinions. "This book sucks" "It's trash" "This is everything wrong with comics". This all makes me question if we are reading the same comic here. I have been enjoying Avengers Arena alot so far. It's actually one of my top picks from the Marvel NOW lineup, It's not the best thing to come out of it, but its up there. I can see people being passionate about characters they really like. Trust me, if X-23 died in the first issue I'd be annoyed as well. I understand it sucks when a character you like is killed off. But honestly this is nothing new. Marvel does this all the time (look what just happened to Spider-man, or in AvX). We have no idea of knowing how permanent any of the deaths are, and chances are with the exception of the more obscure characters no one who dies in this book will stay dead forever. DC has been killing off characters for about a year now with Suicide Squad, and I haven't heard any outrage over that. The deaths in this series are at least done for a solid reason.

SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.
Mettle went out like a champ to defend his girlfriend. After reading Avengers Academy, if Mettle hadn't stepped up and just let Hazmat die, then it would be completely out of character for him. Sure it sucks he died, but I would rather him die protecting the girl he loved then die crying in the corner cause he couldn't save her. He was a true hero. Red Raven I know nothing about, from what I understand she is a pretty old character though. Her death as pointless as it seems was to show there is no escaping the island. It helps to make the scenario way more intense when you know there is no escape for these characters.

People are free to dislike this book all they want. I happen to enjoy it. Even if X-23 somehow dies in it this series I doubt it will be permanent. Hopeless is doing a good job with the story. I don't really understand how anyone could call this series bad writing. I enjoy how each issue so far as been a introductory story into each of the "competitors". Helps to show what is at stake for each character. People get so worked up over all the death that they are blinded to the good parts of the story. Everything I liked about stuff like The Hunger Games and even movies like I Am Legend is present in this comic and I really enjoy that. Finding hope in the hopelessness of a terrible situation for example. The art too is amazing. I get the hate as far as X character being thrown into a dire situation where they will probably die. I understand the dread that these characters may die and not ever be seen again. But that is sort of the point of a survival story, no? What I don't get is people calling it horribly written or the worse thing in comics. There have been FAR worse comics than this. I really think that alot of people just like to hear themselves complain, which is their right. So go ahead complain, I'm gonna keep enjoying this series.

Very well said. I totally agree. One of my top picks too. I'd hate to see anything happen to Nico or Chase, but it's a great story so far and as long as Hopeless respects the characters then I'll be okay with it. The art is fantastic too.

Posted by Daycrawler

@hyenascar said:

@BR_Havoc: @lifeboy: Alright big drama. If this is stolen. Tell me what isn't. Sorry, but your barking up the wrong tree. Is this any different than both dc and marvel having olympic and Norse gods, or Christian and Bhuddist themes throughout. ETC, ETC, ETC, ETC.

Hunger Games from Battle Royale from Lord of the Flies from Call of the Wild. (Call of the Wild is essentially an animal version of Lord of the Flies.) So according to your stunning ability to make all plots all inclusive when determining plot originality no of these are even original.

You are not even looking at what this story would really be stealing. The main villain is committing copycat murders

Well said. This has been bugging me a while now, people using Hunger Games / Battle Royale / etc as evidence of an outright rip-off or property theft, which is ludicrous. As you say, if AA is a blatant rip-off/theft of Hunger Games, then HG is a rip-off of BR, which is a rip off of Lord of the Flies and so on into infinity! Don't hear any of the detractors note that. Logic fail. It's hilarious that people have actually said it's property theft, as if anyone owns the kid v kid deathmatch concept. It's not like Hopeless has dropped in Katniss, Shuya or Noriko into the story!

Posted by hyenascar

@Ellie_Knightfall: @Ellie_Knightfall said:

This book is pretty much everything that's wrong with comics.

This comment is pretty much everything that is wrong with comic readers, and the internet.

Posted by sora_thekey

@hyenascar said:

@sora_thekey: Despite the anger of many of the people in here, it has been written very well. Most of the people who read this without per-determined anger enjoyed it. It's a very harsh setting, true. What people are missing is this excellent look into how these heroes would act in these extreme examples.

I actually don't have a predetermined attitude towards the book whatsoever... but when I frist heard of it I thought the premise sounded amazing. I'm willing to give the book a try except that I think I'm going to wait for the Trades.

Moderator
Edited by akbogert

First off, as a fairly vocal opponent of this series, I do want to concede that I've heard nothing but good things about the art, and primarily good things about Hopeless' skills as a writer in general. It sounds like, all other things being equal, this is a stellar pairing from some very talented people. So for me, whether here or elsewhere, if I say derogatory things about Avengers Arena I am not speaking to its technical quality as a comic book. That said, a few points:

@hyenascar said:

@sora_thekey: Despite the anger of many of the people in here, it has been written very well. Most of the people who read this without per-determined anger enjoyed it. It's a very harsh setting, true. What people are missing is this excellent look into how these heroes would act in these extreme examples.

@Tyrannotaur said:

The deaths in this series are at least done for a solid reason.

Even if X-23 somehow dies in it this series I doubt it will be permanent.

But that is sort of the point of a survival story, no? What I don't get is people calling it horribly written or the worse thing in comics. There have been FAR worse comics than this. I really think that alot of people just like to hear themselves complain, which is their right. So go ahead complain, I'm gonna keep enjoying this series.

No matter how noble Mettle's death can be considered, there's no working around the fact that the real "reason" for it was to establish Arcade's new power and motivate the other characters. That's a textbook definition of fridging, and so when you look at it from a fan's perspective there's nothing "solid" about that death. I'd also note that there are far more worthwhile ways to demonstrate that you can't up and fly out of the arena than by killing a character, so once again, I'd dispute "for a solid reason." Those are, as far as I know, the only deaths in the series thus far, and neither of them has been solid or reasonable at all. I'd also note that these deaths, although possibly the exception, cast some doubt in my mind as to just how great the writing is; there aren't a ton of fans who have seen the deaths as anything beyond obtuse plot devices.

Regarding X-23, her physical survival of this series will likely require a major setback or complete reversal of the emotional and social development her character has been striving for since literally her inception. No, Arena's not unique in throwing her back into a "you must kill" situation, but the unique nature of the killing here means that from a character standpoint it's almost better for her to die. From a fan standpoint, the idea of picking between losing Laura or turning her back into a death machine is hardly a good choice at all. Her entire presence in the book belies a shallow understanding of who she is and why people like her.

The thing is, yeah, a survival story has high stakes, and is trivial without actual risk, etc. But the only people I hear spouting that line are people who don't really have an attachment to the characters. The overwhelming majority of fans of these characters don't want a survival story using them. Maybe the people so keen on a high-stakes survival story would feel differently if characters they loved and were really committed to were in here instead. Maybe not. I'm sure there are a few people who think this is a worthwhile enough concept that they don't care who dies so long as the story is well told. But it does seem a bit convenient that almost everyone who says "people have to die for this to matter" also says "I'm not really attached to these characters."

And inb4 "I like these characters, and I still love Avengers Arena." There's no other way to say this: your attachment simply isn't as strong, or at least barely resembles, the attachment of the majority of the other fans. Speaking personally, I've actually had physical discomfort from thinking about this book. EDIT: I want to clarify something (as I've already heard at least one reply to what I wrote, and I think this should be seen by others): I purposely added the caveat "or at least barely resembles." I want it to be clear that I am not saying "if you support this book you must not be a true fan." Not only could I have said that if that's what I meant, but it would become a rather huge joke to anyone who read about my own history with comics and compared it to their own. I simply mean that there seem to be two different kinds of fans (at least from what I've seen here) and I'm merely drawing a distinction between those who are capable of enjoying this book and those whose attachment is the sole reason for their inability to do so.

When I and others call this a blight on the face of comics, I suppose we're referring to different things. In my case, a few of those things are: the blatant cash-in on Hunger Games popularity (no, it's not an idea that originated with those books, it's not theft, but it's also not "original" or exciting for that very reason; likewise, you're fooling yourself if you don't think those books/films led to this being approved); the killing off of misfits (antithetical to the message of "hero in all of us" and general empowerment that superhero comics were intended to engender, killing off characters who weren't "good enough" to hack it in Marvel's economic universe); the use of shock to drive sales (Mettle is completely metallic, but his death was bloody -- completely ignores canon, so give me a better excuse than shock for the gore); the need for "high stakes" to tell a compelling story in modern comics; the brazen disregard for fan emotions and opinions in the name of the almighty dollar.

It's tragically condescending to dismiss people like me as just wanting to hear ourselves talk. For most people, this book is "no big deal." But I've actually gotten nauseous from it. No hyperbole whatsoever. I actually almost threw up and had to stop reading after a few interviews and flipping through a few pages. Believe what you will but some people talk because they actually care.

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