Diversity Changes For Established Characters

Posted by cbishop (8334 posts) - - Show Bio
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In the past four days, Comicvine has had two different articles concerning diversity changes for established characters. The first was "Spoiler: Marvel Reveals the New Ultimate Spider-Man," by Mat 'Inferiorego' Elfring, and the second was "Laurence Fishburne is the New Perry White in Man of Steel," by Tom Pinchuk. Check them out, if you haven't already done so, because both articles sparked some hot debate. They certainly got me thinking, and what I decided is that while I like neither change, one is done the right way, and one is not.

First, let's get something out of the way: I'm a white guy. It's not about that though. As is so often the case with me, it's about the writing. That said, let's get down to it.

The two articles mentioned above talk about diversity changes from two different angles. The Ultimate Spidey article gives us Angle #1: a new, different character replacing the established character. In this case, Miles Morales is somehow replacing Ultimate Peter Parker as Spider-Man. This sort of change in secret identity is called "passing the mantle," or "picking up the mantle," and in and of itself, isn't a bad thing. When the established character is being replaced by their sidekick, or by their child, we have commonly come to call that a "legacy character." In the case of Miles Morales, this is picking up the mantle. He's not a legacy character, because he wasn't Parker's sidekick or child, and it's not passing the mantle, because Parker didn't give him the Spider-Man identity (unless one of those is done through retcon).

While I think "picking up the mantle" is the weakest of the three, after "legacy character" and "passing the mantle," it's still an organic, in-story way of replacing an old character with a new character. The new character being of another ethnicity is fine, but too often, it comes off as a gimmick for sales, rather than as a good reason in the story. It's also harder to explain. How does someone from a plainly different background happen to have the same powers as the character they are replacing? Even if the character happens to be related to the hero, but appears to be of a different ethnicity, as in the case of Connor Hawke, the writer then has to convince the reader that by some remarkable fluke, the relative has developed the same skills as the hero they are coming in to replace, without being mentored by the hero. Frankly, we accept this in comics all the time, but I always find it less believable when the character isn't a legacy character. Despite me calling it weak plausibility, as far as writing, it's still a legitimate way to go.

The Fishburne article gives us Angle #2: a character of different ethnicity being substituted as the same character. In this case, it's an African-American actor playing a caucasian character. Because Mr. Pinchuk's article is about a movie, the issue is really two issues: 1) Caucasian characters being played by actors of other ethnicities, and 2) caucasian characters being randomly replaced by other ethnicities. Whichever issue you go for, it's either 1) bad casting, or 2) bad writing.

In the case of the actor, will they play a good role? More than likely. Specific to Laurence Fishburne: absolutely. But if X-Men had been cast with a white Storm, Chinese Wolverine, and black Magneto, everyone would have said, "bad casting." Why is it not being said for the character of Perry White? I'm sorry, Mr. Fishburne looks nothing like the character of old white guy, Perry White. I understand they're casting for big name actors in the movie, but why not Harrison Ford (who recently played an old white guy in Cowboys and Aliens), Tom Selleck (best known for Magnum P.I., but recently played an old white guy in CBS's Blue Bloods, and in their Jesse Stone movies), or even Sean Connery (former James Bond and played yet another old white guy in League of Extraordinary Gentlemen)? I can more easily accept Connery's accent than I can the completely wrong appearance of Fishburne.

Because we're talking about a movie here, with living, breathing people, the issue gets a little muddled with people's opinions on actors' rights, clique exclusivity, and social changes. If you take it back to the comics though, it would be absolutely wrong to suddenly make major changes to the appearance of your character. I'm not talking about a difference in drawing styles, I'm talking about major changes, like a change from caucasian to African-American, or a change from African-American to Plutonian, or from man to woman (or vice versa to any of those). It's simply bad writing, and in the movies, it's bad casting.

In some cases, the caucasian characters who are changed to ethnicities make no sense, from a historic perspective. Simply put: racial bias of the times is why the characters were originally white, and that's also why historically, a non-white person would not have been in that character's position. For me, this goes back to continuity issues, as discussed in an earlier blog. That is, if there were real continuity, rather than rebooted universes every ten years or so, then those titles that were dominated by caucasian characters could be changed more organically. Older characters could die or retire, and diversity could be represented in a way that reflects the times.

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#1 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13272 posts) - - Show Bio

Legacy characters arent exclusive to family or sidekicks. legacy characters are any characters who have taken on a mantle and kept the legacy alive. 
 
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#2 Posted by turoksonofstone (13199 posts) - - Show Bio

Right on the money across the board.

#3 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice post. I agree with you on the Ultimate Spider-Man thing, but the Perry White doesn't bother me that much.  
 
For me, he's just a minor character. Perry White's always been a small part unlike Lois Lane or Jimmy Olsen, who actually play a big role in Clark Kent's life. It's not like I'm going to see the movie for Perry White (and if anyone does, that's just sad). I'm going to go see Man of Steel to go see Superman kick Zod's butt. So, to me, you can go ahead and do whatever you want with minor characters like Perry White (and while we're on the subject, Heimdal), but don't tamper with the iconic characters like Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, etc. 

#4 Posted by cbishop (8334 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambit1024: Hey, Gambit, thanks for the post!  For the most part, I've learned to just go with the ethnicity changes in movies, but I still consider it bad casting.  I have to disagree about Perry's role in Superman's life - I think he's just as big a part as Lois or Jimmy, although he's been used less in the past several years.

 

Heimdall was absolutely awesome in Thor.  He has probably my favorite line in the movie. :)

 

@turoksonofstone said:

Right on the money across the board.


Thanks, Turok.  Glad you liked it.  Congrats again on your Community Star, btw. ;) 
 
@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

Legacy characters arent exclusive to family or sidekicks. legacy characters are any characters who have taken on a mantle and kept the legacy alive.  


 

Hm, I've never understood it that way, but to be honest, wasn't completely sure.  It wasn't listed as a concept, so I applied my own definition.  So, does this mean the Punisher could be considered a legacy character for Captain America, since he took up that ridiculous Cap-ish costume?
#5 Posted by fesak (7058 posts) - - Show Bio

We already had a hispanic Spider-Man. Don't remember anyone complaining about him.

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#6 Posted by Mercy_ (92767 posts) - - Show Bio

Diversity for the sake of diversity is counter-productive and tends to lead to tokenism.

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#7 Edited by pixelized (62882 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm a comic reader and I have no idea who Perry White is. I don't know his background, nor could I even attempt to guess his hair color. I'm about 90% sure the general public that fell in love with Christopher Reeve and Brandon Roth as Superman also do not know who this man is, so his race being changed in the movie is a non issue.

Storm's look, from her hair color to the skin color, is character defining, yes an uproar would be made of that. For all we know, Lawerence was the only one who walked in and gave a solid audition.

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#8 Edited by commonlyuncommon (28 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, but what if a caucasian actress walked in and she gave the best audition for a character like Storm? There would be uproar. Same as if a Caucasian actress was cast for being the best Nico Minoru to audition when the character is clearly of Asian descent. It can't only be an issue when an African or Asian character is replaced with a Caucasian one, the same also works in reverse. I would never pay to see a movie where Storm is suddenly portrayed by a Caucasian actress, no matter how talented she was. I think casting directors should focus on the aesthetic of the character and choose the most talented from that category.  So yes, there is an issue in Fishburne being cast as Perry White. Some people seem to live by double standards.
 
 I don't think there was any need to replace Ultimate Spider-Man other than the decision to become more diverse, which makes the character seem like the token ethnic to me. How is he meant to integrate with Peter's supporting cast so soon after they've lost Peter? It's not Spider-Man anymore, it's just someone wearing the suit. Had they made Miles a friend, fellow student, or sidekick in the past then it could have worked better. However, at this point they should have just made it Kitty Pryde or Jessica Drew, both of whom where sidekicks.

#9 Posted by Osiris1428 (1349 posts) - - Show Bio

The Storm being played by a white woman example, look, I know it seems like a double standar...hell, it is a double standard, but I use this anology: Why would you take water from a shallow well to replenish one that is overflowing? There really isn't that many minority comic book characters. If it were equal numbers of quality characters and equal in the realm of popular cultures, yeah you could take from all around. But it looks like some people have very small slices, while one demographic seems to be the one who ordered the pizza in the first place.

#10 Posted by cbishop (8334 posts) - - Show Bio
@pixelized said:

I'm a comic reader and I have no idea who Perry White is. I don't know his background, nor could I even attempt to guess his hair color. I'm about 90% sure the general public that fell in love with Christopher Reeve and Brandon Roth as Superman also do not know who this man is, so his race being changed in the movie is a non issue.

Storm's look, from her hair color to the skin color, is character defining, yes an uproar would be made of that. For all we know, Lawerence was the only one who walked in and gave a solid audition.


I think commonlyuncommon has answered this pretty well already, but I have to add: a comic reader you may be, but I have to question if you've ever read a Superman comic? I fail to see how anyone could read Superman titles, and not know Perry White, just as well as Lois Lane and Jimmy Olsen.  He's one of the key supporting cast members.  And even if you're only familiar with the Christopher Reeve and Brandon Routh movies, Perry White was caucasian in both movies (just as he is in the comics).  I still call it bad casting for him to be otherwise. 
 
I also disagree with your Storm comment.  I find neither her hair color nor skin color to be character defining.  It's always been an awesome visual, but neither her hair nor her skin color is character defining.  Neither has ever been a factor in her characterization.  She was worshipped as a goddess in Africa, but that never had to do with her hair or skin color, it had to do with her being able to bring rain to a parched land.  In fact, although I haven't read every single one of the several hundred issues of X-books published, I don't think her race has even been an issue in her characterization... other than her being of the race of homo superior - mutants.  With that being the case, I'd say that Storm could be played by anyone of any race, except that visually, she's a black, African woman.  It's a complete double standard to say that it's okay for one character, but not okay for another.
#11 Posted by cbishop (8334 posts) - - Show Bio
@fesak said:
We already had a hispanic Spider-Man. Don't remember anyone complaining about him.

Who said anything about complaining because he's Hispanic?  I'm complaining because I don't see how this will make sense from a writing standpoint.  Bendis is good, but I think any explanation he comes up with will be a stretch.  I'm willing to be wrong though (as we saw in my Shadowland calls lol), so we'll see. 

@Osiris1428 said:
The Storm being played by a white woman example, look, I know it seems like a double standar...hell, it is a double standard, but I use this anology: Why would you take water from a shallow well to replenish one that is overflowing? There really isn't that many minority comic book characters. If it were equal numbers of quality characters and equal in the realm of popular cultures, yeah you could take from all around. But it looks like some people have very small slices, while one demographic seems to be the one who ordered the pizza in the first place.

My issue isn't whether there are a lot of minority characters or not - it's that the established, old school characters not be randomly changed from caucasian to something else.  It's bad writing and bad casting.  I still think this is a continuity issue - if we had actual continuity, instead of periodic reboots, the characters would organically reflect the times, instead of being randomly changed.
#12 Edited by pixelized (62882 posts) - - Show Bio

@commonlyuncommon said:

Yeah, but what if a caucasian actress walked in and she gave the best audition for a character like Storm? There would be uproar. Same as if a Caucasian actress was cast for being the best Nico Minoru to audition when the character is clearly of Asian descent. It can't only be an issue when an African or Asian character is replaced with a Caucasian one, the same also works in reverse. I would never pay to see a movie where Storm is suddenly portrayed by a Caucasian actress, no matter how talented she was. I think casting directors should focus on the aesthetic of the character and choose the most talented from that category. So yes, there is an issue in Fishburne being cast as Perry White. Some people seem to live by double standards. I don't think there was any need to replace Ultimate Spider-Man other than the decision to become more diverse, which makes the character seem like the token ethnic to me. How is he meant to integrate with Peter's supporting cast so soon after they've lost Peter? It's not Spider-Man anymore, it's just someone wearing the suit. Had they made Miles a friend, fellow student, or sidekick in the past then it could have worked better. However, at this point they should have just made it Kitty Pryde or Jessica Drew, both of whom where sidekicks.

Sorry I don't agree. Storm being established in comics as well as mainstream comes with a certain expectation in terms of appearance. Nico and Perry haven't had near the amount of exposure as Ororo so anyone can play them without the uproar.

@cbishop said:

I also disagree with your Storm comment. I find neither her hair color nor skin color to be character defining. It's always been an awesome visual, but neither her hair nor her skin color is character defining. Neither has ever been a factor in her characterization. She was worshipped as a goddess in Africa, but that never had to do with her hair or skin color, it had to do with her being able to bring rain to a parched land. In fact, although I haven't read every single one of the several hundred issues of X-books published, I don't think her race has even been an issue in her characterization... other than her being of the race of homo superior - mutants. With that being the case, I'd say that Storm could be played by anyone of any race, except that visually, she's a black, African woman. It's a complete double standard to say that it's okay for one character, but not okay for another.

I can't even reply to this, lol.

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#13 Posted by tim2081 (519 posts) - - Show Bio
@cbishop: I think a lot of developers are just being conscious of including more minority characters, and they'll sacrifice unknown characters to do that. I don't think it's bad thing. It's not like that's the only thing doesn't make sense in the story. I'm black, and I notice when not a single black person appears in a movie, or there is only one token black character. It doesn't make me dislike the movie, but I always think they could have put a few more somewhere. 
 
Also, Fox in Wanted was a black woman in the comics, but Angelina Jolie portrayed her in the movie. That was a major part, but nobody made a huge deal about it.
#14 Edited by cbishop (8334 posts) - - Show Bio
@pixelized said: Sorry I don't agree. Storm being established in comics as well as mainstream comes with a certain expectation in terms of appearance. Nico and Perry haven't had near the amount of exposure as Ororo so anyone can play them without the uproar.  

 

(cb said:) Perry White has had 75 years of comics exposure, has been in 4 movies, several movie serials, numerous cartoons, and in every version of a Superman or Superboy TV show, including Smallville, and in every version, has been a caucasian male.  He's had WAY MORE exposure than Storm. 
 
@cbishop said: ...I find neither her hair color nor skin color to be character defining....

I can't even reply to this, lol.


Why not?  How does this define her character?  It has never been an issue in the comics.  I contend that Storm could be of any skin color and any hair color, and still have the same weather manipulation powers, and even still be from Cairo, and still have been worshipped as a goddess.  How does her skin or hair color define any of that?  If her skin color caused her to be abused to such an extent that it affected her current personality, then her skin color would be character defining.  If her white hair somehow marked her as an outcast to her people (like the purple eyes of the original Aqualad marked him to the Atlanteans) then her hair color would be character defining.  How is either character defining for Storm?
#15 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33631 posts) - - Show Bio

I am all for more diversity in comics but wouldn't it make more sense to invent new characters with diverse backgrounds instead of replacing established ones? or how about even doing stuff with the long forgotten ones they all ready have?

#16 Posted by commonlyuncommon (28 posts) - - Show Bio
@pixelized: Maybe so. However, there was outrage when the casting sides for a Runaway movie said that the casting directors would accept an actress of any ethnic origin for the role. Understandably so, but this works both ways. I said that I would never stand for a white Storm,  and maybe she's too iconic. But I wouldn't want to see any character changed just so that they could be a token in the movie, or in the series. It shouldn't happen because Marvel needs diversity. It should be a natural progression of the story. Miles should have been integrated into the series before now, to make him a worthy character to become Spider-Man. He comes of as token at the minute. Perry has been in every incarnation of Superman's mythos, I think that stands on its own. He may not always be on the frontline but he is one of the most prominant supporting cast members for Superman. However, you have your opinion and I have mine. I just wanted to clarify my point - don't think I did that well last night.
 
@Osiris1428:  You can't say that because she's a minority she can't be changed. Making Cyclops or Jean Grey African-American to further diversify Marvel is more counterproductive than it is productive, and both are more integral to the mythos of X-Men than Storm is. I downright disagree with the double standard. If Caucasian characters can be sacrificed for the sake of diversity, the rest are fair game too. I'm not bothered by the switch of Perry, or the legacy of Spider-Man being continued on by a Hispanic. I simply disagree with diversity for the sake of diversity. I would never expect an African or Asian character to become caucasian, and I don't expect Caucasian characters to become African or Asian. This isn't only about race. I was pissed off that Black Widow lost her Russian character traits in Iron Man 2. Changes have to be made for the movies, but some changes are a step to far. Perry isn't as bad as say Superman suddenly being changed. And thankfully, Miles is a new character rather than a redesigned Peter Parker. Still though, there are less African-American's in American than Caucasian American's and that's a fact. It's unrealistic to try and suddenly get some diversity because there is none. I work in a store and we have different nationalities but everyone is the same race, because that's just how the lottery of jobs has happened. That's life. Not everything is ethnically diverse.
#17 Edited by pixelized (62882 posts) - - Show Bio

@cbishop said:

@pixelized said: Sorry I don't agree. Storm being established in comics as well as mainstream comes with a certain expectation in terms of appearance. Nico and Perry haven't had near the amount of exposure as Ororo so anyone can play them without the uproar.
(cb said:) Perry White has had 75 years of comics exposure, has been in 4 movies, several movie serials, numerous cartoons, and in every version of a Superman or Superboy TV show, including Smallville, and in every version, has been a caucasian male. He's had WAY MORE exposure than Storm.

I'm saying, walk down the street and hold up a picture of Storm and 9/10 people will guess correctly as to who she is. Try the same for Perry White and report your findings.

@cbishop said:

Why not? How does this define her character? It has never been an issue in the comics. I contend that Storm could be of any skin color and any hair color, and still have the same weather manipulation powers, and even still be from Cairo, and still have been worshipped as a goddess. How does her skin or hair color define any of that? If her skin color caused her to be abused to such an extent that it affected her current personality, then her skin color would be character defining. If her white hair somehow marked her as an outcast to her people (like the purple eyes of the original Aqualad marked him to the Atlanteans) then her hair color would be character defining. How is either character defining for Storm?

I didn't even want to reply to this because that one line that I bolded earlier, told me everything I needed to know regarding your familiarity with Storm.

@tim2081 said:

Also, Fox in Wanted was a black woman in the comics, but Angelina Jolie portrayed her in the movie. That was a major part, but nobody made a huge deal about it.

This is the point I was attempting to make earlier. Majority of the people that went to see Wanted had no Idea who Fox was, so her character could have been played by a purple gremlin, if casting directors deemed it.

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#18 Posted by pixelized (62882 posts) - - Show Bio

@commonlyuncommon said:

@pixelized: Maybe so. However, there was outrage when the casting sides for a Runaway movie said that the casting directors would accept an actress of any ethnic origin for the role. Understandably so, but this works both ways. I said that I would never stand for a white Storm, and maybe she's too iconic. But I wouldn't want to see any character changed just so that they could be a token in the movie, or in the series. It shouldn't happen because Marvel needs diversity. It should be a natural progression of the story. Miles should have been integrated into the series before now, to make him a worthy character to become Spider-Man. He comes of as token at the minute. Perry has been in every incarnation of Superman's mythos, I think that stands on its own. He may not always be on the frontline but he is one of the most prominant supporting cast members for Superman. However, you have your opinion and I have mine. I just wanted to clarify my point - don't think I did that well last night.

I understand what you're saying, and have no problem with it :D

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#19 Posted by cbishop (8334 posts) - - Show Bio
@tim2081 said:
@cbishop: I think a lot of developers are just being conscious of including more minority characters, and they'll sacrifice unknown characters to do that. I don't think it's bad thing. It's not like that's the only thing doesn't make sense in the story. I'm black, and I notice when not a single black person appears in a movie, or there is only one token black character. It doesn't make me dislike the movie, but I always think they could have put a few more somewhere.  Also, Fox in Wanted was a black woman in the comics, but Angelina Jolie portrayed her in the movie. That was a major part, but nobody made a huge deal about it.

I agree with you: they are absolutely being conscious of including more ethnic diversity in movies, but I don't think Perry White qualifies as an "unknown character."  The stories we're talking about - full of caucasian characters and little else - come from a time when workplaces and fiction were unfortunately dominated by caucasians.  Unfortunately, every reboot to date has started again with those same characters, so little diversity has been introduced.  To my mind, the best minority character introduced to supporting cast in the last twenty years was Ron Troupe, who was instantly unlikeable, because he was there to replace the missing Clark Kent, during the Reign of the Supermen storyline.  When Superman (and therefore Clark) returned, DC didn't know what to do with Ron, and now where is he? (I honestly don't know.) 
 
I prefer a diverse cast too, as long as they're not all stereotyped to absurdity.  Hollywood has just as many absurd casting practices as comics do, so it's an awkward pairing.  I'll say yet again: I think this goes back to bad continuity.  If the continuity reflected the times, instead of rebooting, this wouldn't be an issue today. 
 
As for Wanted, ugh, I liked the movie for what it was, but beyond the main character and the title, it bore no resemblance to the comic book.  Casting wasn't an issue for me in that movie, because to me, it wasn't at all designed to be like the comic.
#20 Edited by cbishop (8334 posts) - - Show Bio
@pixelized said:

@cbishop said:

Why not? How does this define her character? It has never been an issue in the comics. I contend that Storm could be of any skin color and any hair color, and still have the same weather manipulation powers, and even still be from Cairo, and still have been worshipped as a goddess. How does her skin or hair color define any of that? If her skin color caused her to be abused to such an extent that it affected her current personality, then her skin color would be character defining. If her white hair somehow marked her as an outcast to her people (like the purple eyes of the original Aqualad marked him to the Atlanteans) then her hair color would be character defining. How is either character defining for Storm?

I didn't even want to reply to this because that one line that I bolded earlier, told me everything I needed to know regarding your familiarity with Storm.



So now this has to do with my familiarity with Storm?  Pixelized, you still haven't answered my question - how does Storm's hair or skin color define her character?  Storm was an orphan and petty thief on the streets of Cairo, as a child.  When her mutant powers developed, she was worshipped as a goddess, because of her ability to bring much needed rain to a parched and barren Africa.  She was found by Charles Xavier, who offered her a place at the Xavier Institute, where she honed her power as an X-Man.  She originally hated Wolverine, always treated Kitty in a motherly fashion, and was once turned into a vampire (highlighted by a cool "Rogue Storm" cover).  When Callisto challenged her honor, Storm fought her for leadership of the Molocks and won, without use of her powers.  The leather vest she wore when she had the mohawk was a symbol of that leadership.  It was during that time that she jumped in front of a shot meant for Rogue, and lost her powers to a blast from Forge's power-removing gun... to this day, I've never quite been sure how she got her powers back.  In recent years, she has been shown to have the ability to see and smell dark magic, and in my opinion, has been pretty much ruined as a character. 
 
That's my familiarity with Storm, and if you will, please, tell me how any of that hinges on her skin or hair color.
#21 Edited by pixelized (62882 posts) - - Show Bio

@cbishop: There's been a miscommunication. Originally when I said "character defining," I was using it to say that that's how most of the mainstream audience knows of Storm; she's the white haired black woman that shoots lightning bolts. In X-Men first class we're given a glimpse of a child that fits that description, even though she has no lines we pick up on it as Storm because those are traits definitive to her character.

I'm not saying her appearance is why she beat Emma Frost in a duel 15 years ago nor why she gets to eat lunch first in the X-Teria.

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#22 Edited by cbishop (8334 posts) - - Show Bio

@pixelized: Okay, so that goes back to my original reply that her hair and skin color has always been an awesome visual, and on that, you'll get no argument.  Olive to dark skin, and white hair and eyes are the appearance of Storm, hands down.  To change that would be wrong.

 

Flip it a little.  Why do we want the movie characters to look like the comic characters?  So the "mainstream," non-comic-reading movie audience won't be confused, if they decide to pick up one of the comics, right?  So won't it be confusing to movie audiences who see an African-American Perry White, but pick up a Superman comic for the first time, and see a caucasian Perry White?  How many times have you had to explain the history of Nick Fury's appearance to friends who have seen Samuel L. Jackson in the movies, but never read the comics?  The Ultimate Marvel line is a cool What If? scenario, but I think it messes with moviegoers' comprehension in a terrible manner. 
 
Btw, I didn't know that Storm had ever dueled Emma Frost.  Thanks... or was that sarcasm?  To be honest, my familiarity with Storm pretty much drops off after she lost her powers, way back when.  Any beats after that, I've read in online articles and such. ;)

#23 Posted by Osiris1428 (1349 posts) - - Show Bio

Basically, there are not that many great Black Female comic characters. So, yes, leave Storm alone. If you had a little black sister who loves that character, you might understand.

#24 Posted by cbishop (8334 posts) - - Show Bio
@Osiris1428 said:
Basically, there are not that many great Black Female comic characters. So, yes, leave Storm alone. If you had a little black sister who loves that character, you might understand.

I wasn't suggesting anyone change Storm - just arguing the point of what defines her character.  I believe Pixelized (and P', forgive me for putting words in your mouth) was actually telling me that Storm has a definitive look, easily recognized by the masses (thanks in large part to the X-movies <-- my addition).  On that, I absolutely agree.  X-Men is sort of like Star Trek - the story has never had to do with a person's color or appearance, but on their character.  And I believe that's how it should be.
#25 Edited by sesquipedalophobe (4741 posts) - - Show Bio

There are been various renditions of Perry White, all of whom didn't fit the bill. For instance, Frank Langella was too passive and high in stature. His hair was completely white and he is of Italian descent. But does everyone simply want him to be white white? excusing the fact that his character was simply the casting director's love for Cushing films? The George Reeves' Perry White was the same as Frank Langella, that his hair was white and screaming and yelling wouldn't generate the same appeal as the comic character's. Being that it is casting, it's already baseless. Film never depicts characters in their entirety, at which point going the other way couldn't be so far from making Superman flightless and having the strength of a hundred men to flying through cores of planets and withstanding the weight of freighters with incredible ease. Had the Perry White of the Man of Steel been white I would have ignored the Great Ceasar's Ghost line either way because it doesn't translate well to film, except to get a faint giggle from a fanboy. Up, up and away.

#26 Posted by cbishop (8334 posts) - - Show Bio
@sesquipedalophobe: I don't have as much of a problem with that kind of casting - when casting real life people, you're only going to get but so close to what the drawing looks like, unless the drawing was  based on a real life person, such as Ultimate Nick Fury being based on Samuel L. Jackson.  But to say, "Oh well, we can only get but so close to the drawing with a real life person, so let's go as far left field from it as we can," is ridiculous.
#27 Posted by Kairan1979 (16780 posts) - - Show Bio

I simply disagree with diversity for the sake of diversity. I would never expect an African or Asian character to become caucasian, and I don't expect Caucasian characters to become African or Asian. This isn't only about race. I was pissed off that Black Widow lost her Russian character traits in Iron Man 2. Changes have to be made for the movies, but some changes are a step to far.

I agree completely.

The good example of "diversity for the sake of diversity" is African-American Heimdall in Thor movie.

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