Tim Drake was almost Blue Beetle. Could it still happen?

Posted by cbishop (7418 posts) - - Show Bio
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307/11/10Tim Drake was almost Blue Beetle. Could it still happen?(Blog) (Forum)Red Robin(Back) (Next)

That might sound crazy to a lot of people, but it almost happened, and may happen still. I have told this story in a few other places**, but not yet at Comic Vine. Back when Chuck Dixon was writing the books for all of the Bat-support-titles (Nightwing, Robin, Azrael, Birds of Prey, Batgirl, and probably something I'm forgetting) he was directing Tim towards getting out of the Robin suit, and into the Blue Beetle costume. "Impossible," you say? Here's what was going on at the time:

Tim was proving himself to be quite the detective. Bruce and Dick's identities weren't the only ones he had figured out. He figured out Huntress' true identity, and figured out either that Oracle was Babs, or where she was located (which then would have told him who she was). He may have figured out one or two others, but the point is: he was figuring out heroes' identities, and he was getting good at it. He was also having trouble with Batman at the time, and in a conversation with Nightwing (in Nightwing), he confided that he couldn't see himself being Robin forever. Shortly after that, he was seen over in Birds of Prey, where Ted Kord was helping Oracle get some stuff rewired and installed. He and Ted wind up going on a mission together, and during the issue, Tim gushes about how big of a fan he has always been of Blue Beetle, and how great it is to be working with him. At the end of that issue, Barbara gives Ted a check-up (because, y'know, her technology includes medical equipment so thorough she doesn't have to be a doctor to use it) and tells him that he shouldn't be doing anything more strenuous than lifting a pencil.

So, I was reading all of this at the time, and I said to myself, "Holy crud, I think they're going to put Tim Drake in the Blue Beetle costume!" To me, it made perfect sense. Blue Beetle is one of the few non-powered heroes in the DCU who isn't associated with the Batman Family (appearances in Birds of Prey aside). Wedging him into the Bat-Family would have been transparent to the fans, so there needs to be an "organic" way to draw him in. Tim is perfect. It was Tim who made Robin popular again, not Robin who made Tim popular, and it's the character of Tim that carried the Robin series for so long. So if Tim can sell Robin, it's not illogical to think that fans would read Tim in another costume - the Blue Beetle costume. He doesn't even have to stay in the costume. He could've been in it for just a year, and Blue Beetle would have been firmly entrenched in the Bat-Family, and DC would have yet another Bat-title they could sell books with. It was the perfect time for it too, because DC had Stephanie Brown running around in that horrible Spoiler identity, so she could take over as Robin, while Tim was Blue Beetle.

I posted this theory in a message board at one point, and someone suggested I go to Chuck Dixon's website and ask him about it, because they thought I was actually right about it. I thought, "Hey, good idea," and headed over to ask Mr. Dixon that very thing. To my great surprise, he answered that this was "pretty much exactly" where he was headed at the time, but DC said no, and that was pretty much when he quit writing all of those books for DC. Now, let me gush for a minute, and tell you that I was super stoked about this. I had related this theory to a few different people, and on a couple of message boards, and been scoffed at. Here was the writer himself though, telling me that I was dead on. Super cool! This is still one of the cooler moments in my comics reading history, probably because I'm just a big fan of the 1986 Blue Beetle series.

For those who might be thinking that Blue Beetle doesn't fit with the Bat-Family, I always say this: When DC was getting ready to release the Nightwing series, they hyped it on these points: Dick was in his own identity, no longer tied to "Batman and," he was in his own city, and would have his own villains. Blue Beetle already had all of that. He was never tied to "Batman and," had Hub City as his own patrol, and his own villains in the Madmen, Firefist, Catalyst, Overthrow and others. And he also had those cool gadgets like the BB Gun and The Bug.

Well, okay, DC told Dixon "no," and instead, shot Ted Kord in the head, gave Stephanie Brown a disastrous stint as Robin, gave us a new Blue Beetle (whose origin makes no sense, without the retcon they did on BB history, and could have been named anything other than Blue Beetle and still been the same character), and systematically destroyed the life of Tim Drake, killing first his girfriend, Stephanie (he thought), then his dad (who we'll more than likely never see again), then his best friend, Superboy (who of course came back), and then Bruce Wayne (who he's still looking for, but we all know is making his way back through time). So along the way, Tim has become the new Red Robin, and is now out there being proactive about taking down the villains.

Still, I'm looking at this Red Robin book, and I'm thinking. Tim took up this identity so he could pursue a sketchy course of action, and not sully the good names of Batman and Robin. First, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. He's named Red Robin, with a similarly colored costume, and people aren't thinking he's just Robin with a bit of an update to his costume? Second, as we were shown in one of the Unscripted Reviews, people are mistaking him for Doctor Midnite, and Tim's at least a little worried that DM might come and kick his butt for sullying his name. So why wouldn't he change his costume to something more original? He turned down Dick's apparent hints that he be Nightwing, presumably for the same reasons he left the Robin identity. It's probably safe to assume that he will stick to the Red Robin identity until he has taken care of his "hit list."

What then though? Once he's done with this morally sketchy course of action, and once Bruce is back (whether he becomes Batman again or not [yeah, yeah, he probably will]), I really don't see Tim remaining as Red Robin. I don't see him going back to being Robin either. For one thing, after being on his own for so long, operating under his own rules, why would he want to go back to the restrictive partnership of "Batman and Robin?" For another, Damian is currently Robin, and I don't think that's going to change anytime soon.

To me, that leaves one course of action: take up another identity. I might be wrong on this point, but I think it was revealed somewhere along the way that Kord Incorporated had become a subsidiary of Wayne Enterprises. And surely, someone has taken control of Kord's Blue Beetle stuff? There's a lair out there somewhere, housing The Bug and whatever else goes with it. So why would DC make up another identity for Tim, when they can resurrect Kord's version of Blue Beetle? At this point, I'd say they're not going to bring Ted back from the dead (which, as much as I like Ted, I'm kind of glad about) so let's put someone else in that costume (or updated version thereof). And who better than that gushing fan of Blue Beetle, Tim Drake?

Possible? I dunno. DC seems to be in love with that Red Robin identity, which I don't get. The extra material in Absolute Kingdom Come (originally printed as the Comicology Kingdom Come Companion, from Two Morrows) tells us that they got that name from the Red Robin burger chain, so why on earth would they want to keep it? They seem to be having Tim do all this stuff in this identity, that flirts with the line between hero and menace. It just doesn't make sense that he'll stay in that identity, any more than it makes sense for him to go back to being Robin. I think a new identity will eventually be called for, and Ted Kord's Blue Beetle stuff is just sitting there. What do you guys think?

**For anyone wondering, I have told the part of this blog, up through Chuck Dixon confirming my theory, on several areas of the DC message boards, once at the Image message boards (don't look at me like that - it came up), and of course, posted my theory at the Chuck Dixon website. Thanks. -cb

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#1 Posted by Sexy Merc (41971 posts) - - Show Bio

Ted Kord was his favorite superhero.

#2 Posted by Mister Sarcastic (34 posts) - - Show Bio

I hope he get his own identity although Tim as Blue Beetle would be cool too.
But it`s probably unlikely with a Live Action  Blue Beetle (Jamie Reyes) in production.
Btw. Cord Industries is now part of the 100. (Teen Titans 61)

#3 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm perfectly happy with Jaime as Blue Beetle, thank you very much.

#4 Posted by cbishop (7418 posts) - - Show Bio
@Mister Sarcastic:
See... I don't follow movie news, very much (although a little more, since joining CV a couple weeks ago).  I prefer to be surprised when I see it in previews at the theater, or in ads on TV.  I inevitably hear about them beforehand anyway, but I don't actively go seeking the news.  ...All that to say: I had no idea about the live action BB.  Gotta say: I think that's a horrible idea.  I just don't see it looking good.  A cartoon would be okay.  I like the Jaime character, but I just don't think he needed to be named Blue Beetle... I won't go any further than that right now. 
 
I do realize that DC is not going to mess with their Bat-characters, and for some reason, they just can't bring themselves to connect Ted's Beetle to the Bat-Family.  I think it's a shame, but that's because I'm such a huge fan of that Blue Beetle. 
 
But HEY, Bruce is clawing his way back through time, and though it's been left to question, no one really thinks that Bruce is going to step aside and let Dick carry on as Batman.  Bruce IS going to be Batman again.  So Dick's going to need a new identity.  If the Kandorian Nightwing is still around, maybe Dick could take over that Blue Beetle stuff? Hm... 
 
As for Kord Industries being part of the 100, I've been out of the Teen Titans loop for about a year-and-a-half to two years.  I missed #61, and am not even sure what the 100 is.  I'll have to look it up and get caught up.  Thanks for the comment.
#5 Edited by cbishop (7418 posts) - - Show Bio
@AtPhantom said:

"I'm perfectly happy with Jaime as Blue Beetle, thank you very much. "


LOL  Obviously, I'm not.  Mostly, it's that I was around to read the 1986 Blue Beetle title, when it was new, and I just love that character.  I'm fine with the Jaime character, but he didn't need to be connected to Blue Beetle.  His origin required a total retcon of the Blue Beetle history, and totally changed what the scarab is.  There's 101 things he could have been named, other than Blue Beetle.  "Scarab" is a sorry excuse for a Robin villain - DC could have used that name.  "Silver Scarab" is an ex-member of Infinity Inc. that DC's not using - they could have made the armor silver and used that name.  "Armor" has been used by Continuity and Marvel - there's no reason DC couldn't have their own "Armor" too.  Tank, Construct, Weapon, Metalmorph (yes, "metal," not "meta" - it's wordplay), anything but Blue Beetle!  Jaime could have been named anything else, and still been the same great character that he is. 
 
Ted Kord had that great Bugship, and that's just in mothballs now.  So are his villains.  What a waste of great visuals and a great character. 
 
Thanks for your comment. ;)
#6 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio
@cbishop: Correct me if I'm wrong, but exactly what did they retcon about Blue Beetle's history? The only thing changed was the nature of the scarab, which really wasn't much of a point to Ted, and even then it was more of filling in the blanks than actually retconning. The only thing they've changed was that the scarab was not originally magical, and, again, correct me if I'm wrong, but we never really got to see the scarab's origins in the original stuff anyway.
 
Jaime is a fun character. His supporting characters are fun, and his book from start to finish was a celebration of Ted Kord and his tactics and lines of thought. It's not like they said "Oh well, Ted's dead, @#$% him." No, they went out of their way to make Ted and Dan a part of it, and to show that their legacy is not forgotten. They even used the bugship on a number of occasions, and Jaime considers Ted a role model. They also used a couple of Ted and Dan's old villains and would likely have used more of them have people just given them a chance and not had their book canceled.
 
Sorry, but I don't see why Jaime is any worse a choice than characters who, apart from general acquaintance and a shoe horned adoration, had no actual ties to Ted. I'm happy they said no to Dixon. And I'm happy they said yes to Giffen. And I hope Jaime stays around for a long time.
#7 Edited by cbishop (7418 posts) - - Show Bio
@AtPhantom: The scarab is exactly what I'm talking about.  It was originally mystical - it allowed Dan Garret to become Blue Beetle by saying a magic word.  Back then, that was all the explanation needed.  If he said his magic word and was mystically decked out in some kind of armor, then I think they could make the leap that it was really an alien device like the one Jaime's got bonded to his spine.  In the Ted Kord series, they changed it to the scarab being some kind of egg for an alien entity - I didn't buy that either. 
 
Tim's adoration of Blue Beetle may have been "shoehorned" to accomodate the plan to make him the next Blue Beetle, but at least it would have been a logical progression.  With Jaime's armor, they had to change the very nature of the scarab to connect him to Blue Beetle.  Talk about "shoehorned!"  How is changing the key element of the original character to accomodate the new one better than building a relationship between characters that makes the name-handoff make sense? 
 
Jaime is a fun character, but everything about his connection to Blue Beetle is "shoehorned."  The only reason Dan and Ted were mentioned in Jaime's book, and the only reason any of Ted's villains appeared, was to try to get readers to accept Jaime as the new Blue Beetle, and to further "shoehorn" that connection.  As Blue Beetle, Jaime is missing the crucial element of any legacy character - the "passing of the baton" - the previous version didn't "approve" him as the next Blue Beetle.  That's what got Jason Todd killed, that's what gave fans a hard time with Kyle Rayner, that's what got Jaime's book cancelled, and that's why people had no problem with Wally West as the next Flash, or with Bart Allen as the Flash after that.  They had done their time as sidekicks to their predecessors - they had earned the costume, and earned the approval of their mentors.  Just like Battle For the Cowl was a farce, because everyone knew it could be no other choice but Dick.  Jaime just got this thing welded to his spine, it says "I'm the scarab," and he's the new Blue Beetle? Pft.  There's no legacy approval in that.
 
If DC had just named the character something else, and gave it a different origin, the book would still be going strong today.  They could have connected him to Kryptonian technology, to something Steel built, to something Cyborg built (strengthening his connection to Teen Titans), to a piece of STAR Labs tech, anything else.  Hell, a Mother Box freaked out in his vicinity one time - they could have connected him to the frickin' NEW GODS, and it would have made more sense than his connection to Blue Beetle. 
 
I like the Jaime character, I just don't like him being named Blue Beetle. 
 
Thanks again for your comment - I'm enjoying this.  Anything else will have to wait tho' - I've gotta get some shuteye.  Later.  :)
#8 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio
@cbishop:  But again, that wasn't really a retcon as much as filling in the gaps. they explained why Dan didn't get all its powers. They explained why Ted didn't get any of its powers. They didn't go "Yeah, we messed that up the last time, just forget it ever happened." They worked to acknowledge all the previous plot points, and then expanded on them.
 
I see your point now, but I don't agree with it. Unlike Batman or Flash, Ted had no heir. No sidekick who would carry on in his name. With that said, everyone who tried to take over after him would be viewed as shoehorning. You mentioned Jason and Kyle. Both were viewed with derision after their respective predecessors departed. On was a carbon copy of the original, the other was nothing like him. Both were hated until grant Morrison saved Kyle, and Jason got killed off. With Jaime, this was again bound to happen, and the writers went a step further and created a rich history which tied into the previous beetles, but still stood out on its own. And I salute them for that. 
Yeah, they could have tied him Teen Titans or Kryptonians or New Gods, but I'm happy they didn't. We would have a different (though not necessarily less fun) character, and I like him the way he is.
#9 Posted by cbishop (7418 posts) - - Show Bio
@AtPhantom: Okay, I'm stepping out on a ledge at this point, because I haven't read a lot of the Jaime series, so if I say something that's not so or badly needs correction, let me know. 
 
From the perspective of the Dan character, there were no gaps in the origin of the scarab.  It was mystical.  Dan didn't get the powers that Jaime got, because the scarab was never meant to do that.  Jaime's scarab armor and accompanying powers were made up for something that wasn't fleshed out beyond "it's magic."  As for Ted, he didn't get any of the scarab's powers, because it was buried in a cave-in, before he could get his hands on it.  When that whole "alien egg/scarab" thing happened towards the end of his series, I thought Ted destroyed it (don't honestly remember the details though).  ...Y'know, maybe my problem with Jaime's origin is just that it's the scarab.  If DC had worked out some kind of funky explanation for Ted's Bugship being an alien device that compacted itself down to the scarab size, and welded itself to Jaime's spine, I'd be able to buy that (as far as comic book explanations go), because it's technology becoming technology.  I just don't like the magical becomes technology scenario.  It makes no sense to me.  As I keep saying, I like the Jaime character, but I had to ignore his origin to do so. lol
 
To the heir thing: no, he didn't have an heir, but there's nothing DC could do there except introduce one.  BB was created at another company, before DC got hold of him.  Revealing Tim as a fan and working up a colleague relationship between the two would have been an organic way to bring us the next BB, without having to bring this new scarab out of left field.  I'm tellin' ya, if I were one day handed the Blue Beetle book, I would flip-flop it back to what it was.  I'd reveal the mystical scarab was still out there, and that Jaime's came from another source.  Now that he's been introduced as BB, I'd find some way to keep him connected to the Blue Beetle line, but I'd definitely find a way to make the Dan scarab and the Jaime scarab two separate things.  I don't know why the little point of the origin of Jaime's scarab bothers me so much, but it does. lol  I will concede that DC worked very hard to connect Jaime to the other two BB's, but for myself, it just didn't feel right.  The character was cool, but his connection to Blue Beetle didn't feel right. 
 
Back to Jason and Kyle: Jason was wrong from the start.  It was ballsy that he tried to boost the tires off of the Batmobile, but he had no respect for being Robin, and didn't have the mentality for being a hero.  He didn't listen to Batman, and was more violent than he needed to be.  Most of all though: Dick never approved him.  To me, that's what made the character unworthy.  When Tim came in, Dick eventually did approve him, and that cemented Tim as part of the Bat-family.  Now, Kyle I liked from the start, but an awful lot of people didn't.  The only reasons he got the acceptance he did were that a) Jordan had just gone nuts and destroyed the Corps and Oa, so to some, we needed a new GL, and b) it was a Guardian that gave him the ring, even if it was random.  From there on, Kyle earned the ring.  He was in appropriate awe of the heroes he met, to whom he had been a "mere mortal" before, he made some mistakes, wasn't arrogant about his newfound power, and showed the proper amount of respect for John, Alan and Guy.  When Jordan returned, it wasn't as much a case of approving Kyle, as approving the job he had done.  There was no denying Kyle at that point.  I didn't really care for it when Kyle became Dr. Manhattan... I mean Ion, but I was glad they kept him in the Corps. 
 
Thanks again. -cb
#10 Posted by longbowhunter (7691 posts) - - Show Bio

Truly interesting. I loved Dixon's run on Robin. I have to track down the Birds of Prey issue where Tim and Blue Beetle go on a Mission together. I'm such a big Tim fan I would probably enjoy him in any role. Red Robin is one of my favorite series, and I'm sure if he had taken over as Blue Beetle I would have read it too. Jaime is a good Blue Beetle, even if he's so far off from the Ted version. Its a shame DC didnt give Dixon a little more creative leverage. Seeing as they killed off Ted and made Shephanie Robin anyhow.
#11 Posted by cbishop (7418 posts) - - Show Bio
@longbowhunter said:
"Truly interesting. I loved Dixon's run on Robin. I have to track down the Birds of Prey issue where Tim and Blue Beetle go on a Mission together. I'm such a big Tim fan I would probably enjoy him in any role. Red Robin is one of my favorite series, and I'm sure if he had taken over as Blue Beetle I would have read it too. Jaime is a good Blue Beetle, even if he's so far off from the Ted version. Its a shame DC didnt give Dixon a little more creative leverage. Seeing as they killed off Ted and made Shephanie Robin anyhow. "

Hey, longbowhunter, thanks for the comment.  Your reaction is exactly what I was talking about.  That's what I'd expect from most readers of Tim Drake - "I would probably enjoy him in any role" - because Tim Drake is an awesome character.  He would have easily carried a Blue Beetle book.  I like the Jaime character too, I just have issues with his name being Blue Beetle (as I've gone on-and-on about).  I like Jaime, but I would have dearly loved to have seen what Chuck Dixon had in mind for Tim as BB.
#12 Posted by Captain13 (3564 posts) - - Show Bio

I love Tim Drake. I don't care what identity he has. This was a pretty good post though. Thanks for sharing.

#13 Posted by cbishop (7418 posts) - - Show Bio
@Captain13: Hey, Captain', thanks for your comment.  I was just stoked that Mr. Dixon confirmed my theory.  I would like to be writing as a career, and I hold his writing in high regard, so to have guessed the direction he was going in left me on top of the world.  Tim Drake is an awesome character, no doubt.
#14 Posted by Liberty (9192 posts) - - Show Bio

For starters this idea is GENIUS.  Pure GENIUS.  I wish this would have happened.  I am pissed about Ted's death.  I should be happy that it his death was heroic but being killed by Max didn't sit right with me at the time.  I did how he was converted to a villain.  He is awesome as a villain now but it was too clumsy in the transition stage.  I want Ted back from the dead and becoming a mentor for the new Blue Beetle of Beetles.  Imagine keeping both Tim and Jaime.  Tim as the Blue Beetle and Jaime as the Scarab, Blue Scarab, or any of the names already suggested.  Then keep Ted as the living mentor like Bruce Wayne is in the Batman Beyond world.  I wrote a blog about it in April.  Check it out.  

http://www.comicvine.com/myvine/liberty/bring-back-ted-kord-blue-beetle/87-49883/ 
 
I hope this happens and this is the best blog I've read in the nearly three years I've been on comicvine.  Thanks

#15 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio
@cbishop:  Yes, the scarab was magic. It still is magic. They never changed that part. They simply added that before it was corrupted by magical forces, it was technology. There were no gaps, but there were no answers about where the scarab came from, were there? But these are semantics now. The big point here is simply taste. The new Beetle doesn't feel right to you. It does, on the other hand, feel pretty right to me. I like the reveal, I like the expanded story, and I like the Reach. They're awesome bad guys. This is not really something we can prove right or wrong. We'll just have agree to disagree on it.
 
On your last paragraph however. You Talked about how Kyle and Jason are different and why Kyle succeeded and Jason failed. But you do realize that you could put Jaime's name instead of Kyle and every part would still be completely valid (Except for Hal/Ted coming back, but hey). Jaime has been nothing but respectful to his legacy, and he is, ultimately a kind, nice, and level headed character, just like Kyle.
#16 Posted by Lustwish (531 posts) - - Show Bio

Tim is fine as he is, leave it alone.  lol

#17 Posted by cbishop (7418 posts) - - Show Bio
@Liberty: Wow, Liberty, thanks very much for your comment and praise. <sigh> I will say though: as much as I miss Ted Kord, I don't think he's coming back.  They flirted with it in the Booster Gold title, but he sacrificed himself, when he realized that being saved from death was screwing up the timeline.  I think Ted's pretty well gone for good, unfortunately.  As for being Jaime's mentor, I like that idea, but I'm not sure how much he could have really done for Jaime.  Ted's all physical prowess and gadgetry, and Jaime's power is an alien technology that he'd never experienced.  I think it would have been very cool for Ted to examine the armor, and help Jaime figure some things out about it, but I don't know if that would have worked either.  The armor acted on many occasions to defend itself from perceived harm, and may have reacted that way to any probing from Ted - although I think Jaime could have reigned it in after the initial outburst. 
 
As AtPhantom pointed out, DC did go the distance in having Jaime see Ted as a role model, so a living mentor would have been a cool thing, and would have gone a long way (for me) to "approving" Jaime as the next Blue Beetle.  Dixon had given Ted a heart condition that was going to prevent him from being Blue Beetle anymore, so Ted would have had to approve Jaime (if they didn't go the Tim/BB direction).  "Passing the baton" is always the way to go with a legacy character.  I'll check out your blog soon.
#18 Edited by cbishop (7418 posts) - - Show Bio
@AtPhantom: Ahhh, okay, that makes a little more sense to me now, but <winces> not a lot. lol  As for taste, I really do like the Jaime character - his origin just nags at me a bit.  Everything else was cool.  I thought his book was well-written, I thought he was cool in Teen Titans, and I liked the Ted "appearance" in the last issue.  And hey, he is Blue Beetle now, so I'm going to deal with it (like I have a choice, but still).  I just think the Tim direction would have been awesome, and I think there were more organic ways to bring about the Jaime character.  He's here now though, so you're right, it's semantics. 
 
As to the stuff about Kyle being the same for Jaime... you're absolutely right.  I'll cut him a little more slack. lol ;) 
 
@ Lustwish: LOL.  First: love your screenname.  Awesome!  Second: realistically, I know that Tim's probably not leaving that Red Robin identity.  DC seems happy with the derivative name, and they've made it work by putting Tim in the costume (when Jason Todd was Red Robin, I didn't care).  I don't mind Tim as RR - it's just that I'm positively itching for some character to pick up the Ted version of Blue Beetle again.  Jaime's cool - he can be out there too - but I want to see someone swinging from the Bugship again.
#19 Posted by BrianDusel (75 posts) - - Show Bio

cbishop, great topic.  I saw a costume design someone had done on deviantart about Tim as Blue Beetle and was thrilled.  I'm a huge Ted Kord fan and thanks to Red Robin, I have gotten more into Tim as well.  I remember reading a Robin issue where he and Ted has teamed up and thought it was fantastic.  If Tim had ever taken over for his personal hero, it would have been genius.
#20 Posted by cbishop (7418 posts) - - Show Bio
@BrianDusel: Hey, Brian, thanks for your comment (and Lustwish, thanks for yours - sorry I didn't say that earlier).  I think it would have been absolutely awesome, but now it's just a "what might have been." <shrugs>  I hope they'll find a way to bring back someone in the Ted version of BB - it doesn't have to be Ted, and in a way, I'd prefer it weren't.  I just think it's a cool character.
#21 Posted by TimDrakeRedRobin (346 posts) - - Show Bio

im clearly a loyal tim fan and would follow him in any role but if he was to be the blue beetle i would want him to completely over haul the costume. tim is a dark character after all the death and dissapointment in his life and a vibrant blue just doesnt match his actions. but if he made his own costume and appeared in gotham regularly then i would deffinatly be all for this. cool idea =) i didnt see that teen titan comic but i will surely look into it.
#22 Posted by TimDrakeRedRobin (346 posts) - - Show Bio

AND HE HAD BETTER STILL HAVE A CAPE!!! i hated when dick became nightwing and lost his cape. a good cape can make a hero, what would the batman be without his cape??? 
tims costumes have always included a cape i dont want that to ever change...
#23 Posted by cbishop (7418 posts) - - Show Bio
@TimDrakeRedRobin:
Hey, Tim', thanks for your comments.  I thought that maybe they would have gone a little darker on the costume, if Tim was in it (I don't know for sure though).  If nothing else, I could see them losing the underwear on the outside thing, making all the light blue areas dark blue, and maybe thin, light blue lines to outline that beetle design on the chest, and to show where the gloves and boots are.  I can't really see Blue Beetle with a cape though. 
 
With Ted and Nightwing both, I think the lack of cape makes sense.  They're more acrobatic characters, like Daredevil.  It makes sense to me that they'd have a costume that allows them to move freely.  The cape looks awesome on characters who have it, but it would never work as well in real life as it does in a comic book.  It'd get tangled in the wind, flop over your head, wind around your legs, etc.
#24 Posted by TimDrakeRedRobin (346 posts) - - Show Bio
@cbishop:
lol yea it would be inconvenient in reality. but then again, this being a new person in a new identity as the blue beetle i think the cape is possible. just like dick used to have a cape but his new identity took it away. but then again the same thing could happen to tim and his cape...though i lament that thought.  if he was going to use a cape as the beetle it would most likely be a shorter one like the first robin costume.  
 
and as you said, dick and ted might have been more acrobatic but tim isnt. he focuses on combat more and getting into the right position in battle so who knows. 
 
p.s. i couldnt see how they would work a cape in to the blue beetle costume either...thats why my comment about it was so urgent lol =D but if they could figure it out i would be even more all for the identity transition
#25 Posted by cbishop (7418 posts) - - Show Bio
@TimDrakeRedRobin:
Just can't see it as Blue Beetle.  If he changed his name to Scarab, maybe (although I think that the Jaime character's hero name should change, rather than the Ted version of BB, but that's another blog).  I want two things: 1) the return of the Ted version of Blue Beetle.  It doesn't have to be Ted, but that Blue Beetle.  2) I want someone in the Bugship. 
 
Now, a possibility: an Owlman.  I know he's out there as a villain, but maybe he finds Ted's stuff.  He modifies the Bugship to look pretty much like the Nite Owl's Owlship, from Watchmen.  <sigh> I don't really like that idea, but man, the Bugship is just such a great visual.  I hate that DC threw it away.
#26 Posted by SmoothJammin (2348 posts) - - Show Bio

I like the idea of Tim as the new Blue Beetle. He'd do so much for the title, why can't they rename jaime blue scarab the way his future self is the silver scarab? I don't think theres an identity as practical for him as the blue beetle right now, ted kord and him are sooo alike and that way he can actually escape batman's shadow the way dick grayson has never been able to. I'm sure dc will pick up on this in no time when the inevitable question of why there cant be two "equally great crimefighting minds" at work in the batfamily is posed..

#27 Edited by cbishop (7418 posts) - - Show Bio
@SmoothJammin: Hey, Smooth', thanks for the comment.  I was unaware that his future self was called Silver Scarab.  I like the Jaime character, but haven't read everything connected to him.  One of the things I have said about him - often - is that his armor could have been silver instead of blue, and he could have had the unused Silver Scarab name.  DC does have an interesting, unique character in the Jaime Blue Beetle, but it's at the expense of the interesting Ted Blue Beetle.  Like I keep saying: I don't necessarily need to see Ted come back from the grave, but it's completely possible to have someone else take up his stuff and be that same kind of BB.  I think that would be cool, and I think it would be great if it was Tim Drake, rather than some unknown character. 
 
There needs to be a passing of the torch from Ted to whoever takes over his stuff, and Tim is the most likely person for that.  With the stuff that Dixon did get established, it would be an easy thing to say that Kord made a will concerning his Beetle stuff, that was left with Bruce or Barbara (I think Barbara would be a better choice, since we're talking about Tim being autonomous of the Bat-fam) until they thought it was right to let Tim know.  That would be excellent.

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