The old powers

#1 Posted by Outside_85 (8201 posts) - - Show Bio

While we twittle our thumbs and wait for Raven to make her New52 debut, there seems to be plenty of time to go over some of the older stuff.

It recently struck me while reading the old NTT series that there could be some confusion as to when Raven's powers ended and when Trigons powers took over.

The first time it happened was during #25 during the battle on Okaara where Raven was overwhelmed by all the death and pain going on around her as Titans, Okaarans, Omegans and Citadel troops fought over possession of X'Hal. When she cracks she says:

"I can feel the evil...feel that which is Trigon...I feel it seething...surging...desperately thrashing to break through all my restraints."

At this point the helpful textboxes write that suddenly Raven's soul is felt everywhere on Okaara and into high orbit, where the 'man-god' Aurion was able to feel the evil of something much worse than X'Hal gone mad which leaved him inactive.

However, a voice appears in Raven's head (presumably it's Trigons, possibly it is her evil self...it's never definitely proven which) telling her: "I am you, Raven. You are evil as I." Before she is able to regain control.

Second time is in #27 when she pushes her healing abilities dangerously close to the breaking point over a kid found half dead in Vic's apartment. While she is apparently out because of the strain, she is again in contact with the voice that is again trying to get control of her, but she is able to fend it off.

The third time this question appeared was in #31, where Raven had been abducted by the Brotherhood of Evil and coaxed to lead Brain and the others into Brother Bloods caves. This is the first time Raven flips because of events around her (also the first time she does the team-stomping that usually accompanies these flips) since she thought the Titans had been slain, matching a vision Phobia had given her. This part is from a textbox that kinda describes the issue:

"She has become him...that damned part of her she has always sought to deny...that damned part of her she has always sought to refuse. Trigon!" (Accompanied of a panel with a mirage-like Trigon appearing over her)

Now the heart of my questions to the examples above is who was the voice really? And who's powers was it really that appeared in these cases.

Raven always called it Trigon, but almost always made it sound like it was a part of him that was inside of her (which is true I guess). But the question is if it was really Trigon himself, because at that time, he was sealed away in a pocket dimension from way back in the earliest issues of NTT. Or, as I mentioned, was it really Raven's evil-self that was talking (since it was totally obedient to Trigon' will the same way the New Gods of Apokolips were to Darkseid).

As for the powers, later on Raven would display some pretty huge feats as a pure spirit, but was it her powers that were felt on Okaara or was it Trigon's?

So thoughts?

#2 Posted by Roddy010 (5159 posts) - - Show Bio

I've always believed the former...I always look at Raven the same as jean Grey...Phoenix is a part of Jean just as Trigon is a part of Raven...But at the same time its been said that Jean is Phoenix just as Trigon has stated to be Raven...I look at as just a play on words...Raven does have her own power but she also has untapped power she inherited from her father..When she does tps into this power she manifest her father just as Jean does when she creates the Phoenix raptor...

#3 Posted by DarkShadows (742 posts) - - Show Bio

Hm, I agree with both of you.

I don't know what to say since I can't put the words together right now.

All I know what to say is that the more Raven tap into her powers is the closer she might become evil.

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