New 52, the potantial for villany

#1 Posted by Outside_85 (8993 posts) - - Show Bio

So at the recent WonderCon in Anaheim, DC had a Spoiler Sunday, a panel where a number of writers got to spoil some upcoming issues, things most people tended to have figured out already, but whatever. Scott Lobdell was also present at this panel where he spoiled about Superman ending up in a psi-war involving Hector Hammond and some other telepaths, while for the Titans he said:

"Raven will be surprisingly more sympathetic to her father's cause."

Now, this is in tune with what Lobdell has been doing so far, since it's new and different for the character (lets leave it unsaid if it's a good idea in the first place).

So lets discuss; what are Raven's potential as a villain and do we think this sympathy means she is forever lost to the dark side?

#2 Edited by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

Both Rose Wilson and Warblade started out as villains so Raven starting out as a villain is just more of the same. In the old Marv Wolfman Titans, Raven was a villain every now and then, whenever she was spending time on the dark side. http://www.comics.org/issue/94283/cover/4/

#3 Posted by Outside_85 (8993 posts) - - Show Bio

While that is true, it reads to me that she's going to be more on the dark side this time around, but perhaps not as bad as she went back then.

#4 Edited by Ravager4 (1627 posts) - - Show Bio

Ugh, they've already ruined her appearance, so now let's ruin her character too. Because why not? Haven't butchered enough characters in this reboot yet, apparently.

Why, oh why, would she ever be 'surprisingly sympathetic' to the father who abducted her, brainwashed her, and forced her into servitude to, presumably, destroy the world? Because that makes sense. Not to mention, in her first appearance in Phantom Stranger, she seemed absolutely terrified at the prospect of being taken by Trigon. Not even remotely "sympathetic."

#5 Posted by Outside_85 (8993 posts) - - Show Bio

@ravager4: Unfortunately you said it yourself; brainwashing is most likely involved, Trigon would probably call it re-education.

That said, all is not lost, and it might be that Raven is only initially on her father's side and returning to Earth (perhaps stranding her there like a few of the New Gods or getting caught by Waller) will eventually clear her mind.

#6 Posted by DarkShadows (742 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not sure if Raven is going to stay as a villain forever, but I do have a feeling that Raven is has a plan of her own, whether it's good or bad.

#7 Posted by Cobalion (188 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not sure if Raven is going to stay as a villain forever, but I do have a feeling that Raven is has a plan of her own, whether it's good or bad.

So there is a chance she might become an anti-hero
Surprisingly, I think I'd enjoy that

#8 Posted by DarkShadows (742 posts) - - Show Bio

@cobalion: Anti-hero? Never thought of that until now, like you, I would like that for Raven.

#9 Posted by Cobalion (188 posts) - - Show Bio

@cobalion: Anti-hero? Never thought of that until now, like you, I would like that for Raven.

She is already a badass now, but anti-heroinism is just going to make her epic... I hope atleast

#10 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, I think Raven being more sympathetic isn't the same as being a villain. Who doesn't love a good anti hero. Besides, aren't teen titans all about drama, I believe almost all of the popular titans gone rogue before either via brainwashing or something else.

#11 Edited by Outside_85 (8993 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare: Difference is that most of them didn't start off on the wrong side of the fence. But then again, most of the Titans appear to now have started there.

As for sympathetic... I am not sure we read the same interview (?), but the one I read Lobdell said she was going to be more sympathetic to her fathers cause, and her father is a six-eyed demon that blasts kids and entire planets just to prove a point or teach a lesson and in a potential time-line built a castle of skulls out of what used to be Earth's population...what's to sympathise with?

#12 Posted by DarkShadows (742 posts) - - Show Bio

@cobalion said:
@darkshadows said:

@cobalion: Anti-hero? Never thought of that until now, like you, I would like that for Raven.

She is already a badass now, but anti-heroinism is just going to make her epic... I hope atleast

Well, she was originally suppose to be in the Outlaws...

#13 Posted by tsalmavet (24 posts) - - Show Bio

well she was a hero in the injustice comic.

#14 Posted by Outside_85 (8993 posts) - - Show Bio

@tsalmavet said:

well she was a hero in the injustice comic.

If I understand the comic correctly, it is like the DCUO comics and is telling the story up to how the alternate earth ended up under Superman's boot. And I am going to spoil this bit, while this alternate earths Raven is working for Superman, she is following her father first and foremost, mainly because the way Superman runs the show will hasten Trigons arrival (not to mention Superman has personally crippled his world's defences by killing off most of the heroes and villains).

#15 Posted by tsalmavet (24 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh. Well I still think she won't stay evil, or atleast I hope.

#16 Posted by DarkShadows (742 posts) - - Show Bio

Well she had her appearance in the latest Teen Titans issue, she's working with Trigon along with a mind-controlled Beast Boy.

#17 Edited by Outside_85 (8993 posts) - - Show Bio

Well she had her appearance in the latest Teen Titans issue, she's working with Trigon along with a mind-controlled Beast Boy.

Hmm, she appears to be working from her own side. She isn't completely with Trigon, but by the looks of things, she isnt entirely against him either. If I was to guess, I expect she has been preparing for this and is setting a trap for Trigon, the Titans are at best useful distractions at this point.

Wouldn't it be great if Raven eventually tried to contest Tim's leadership based on his current mental issues? :)

#18 Posted by DarkShadows (742 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkshadows said:

Well she had her appearance in the latest Teen Titans issue, she's working with Trigon along with a mind-controlled Beast Boy.

Hmm, she appears to be working from her own side. She isn't completely with Trigon, but by the looks of things, she isnt entirely against him either. If I was to guess, I expect she has been preparing for this and is setting a trap for Trigon, the Titans are at best useful distractions at this point.

Wouldn't it be great if Raven eventually tried to contest Tim's leadership based on his current mental issues? :)

Holy crap, that sounds like an awesome idea or maybe taking some of his teammates which this is the part where we're suppose to get Raven's team book later this year.

#19 Posted by jacobsben (108 posts) - - Show Bio

so what does the latest issue mean

#20 Posted by Outside_85 (8993 posts) - - Show Bio
#21 Posted by jacobsben (108 posts) - - Show Bio

as to wether she's a villain or not

#22 Posted by Outside_85 (8993 posts) - - Show Bio

@jacobsben: Still up in the air as we haven't had gotten much out of Raven, we have Trigons view on her, but it's definitely a positive thing he disapproves of her approaching the Titans.

#23 Posted by MagnificentStorm (1388 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: Yea I see what your saying. An obviously Trigon isnt to convinced, at least not now any way. 1. He talked about her putting on a show an 2 he started the invasion without her. Tho im loving the story so far.

But my biggest thing is if she hasnt turned into her demonic for then why was Trigon trusting her. I thought when she becomes demonic was when she going for Trigons cause so why would he if she wasnt?

#24 Posted by Outside_85 (8993 posts) - - Show Bio

@magnificentstorm: To be fair, we dont know if she does that still. That said, it might be by Trigon considered a sort of final-phase or reward for siding with him. Like if she's had to prove to him that she's worthy of being part of his family.

Here's an idea; if whatever Raven is currently doing proves to be so aggravating to Trigon, perhaps he will curse her with the demon form but leave her with 4 eyes instead of 6 to mark her as a failure in his eyes.

#25 Posted by MagnificentStorm (1388 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: Hmph I never thought of it as a final phase thing, very smart. An its not like it would be out of the question. He clearly favors her among his main children because of her importance.

AN OH I almost forgot he must have done something because when Raven got mad at Cassie nothing about her changed other than a little deformity of her face. Usually that would.have been a moment that her demonic side would show off more.

I love your idea Its very creative an sounds like something that Trigon would do.

I just want to see what she will do against her brothers. Will she fight or join them?

#26 Edited by jacobsben (108 posts) - - Show Bio

Anyone care to weigh in on the October covers

#27 Posted by jacobsben (108 posts) - - Show Bio

Seriously its confusing I need answers here

#28 Posted by Outside_85 (8993 posts) - - Show Bio

@jacobsben said:

Anyone care to weigh in on the October covers

Not much to say at this stage with so little info and the high probability of it getting changed before we get there.

That said, I am not that surprised that she's turning so soon, as with the rest of this book just seems to be a very long checklist of things that need to be established behind somekind of story. Like, the original NTT storyline, Raven didn't go fully demonic before Terror of Trigon happened (four-five years into the run), but it's sort of being the 'stuff's gotten real' marker ever since.

#29 Posted by jacobsben (108 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: you think she's going to become permanently bad?

#30 Posted by jacobsben (108 posts) - - Show Bio
#31 Posted by Outside_85 (8993 posts) - - Show Bio

@jacobsben: I dont believe that, DC is stupid, but not that stupid.

#32 Edited by jacobsben (108 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: I don't know what'd I do to myself if they did that

#33 Posted by jacobsben (108 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: what are the odds trigon is wrong on hed

#34 Posted by Outside_85 (8993 posts) - - Show Bio

@jacobsben: Quite high, since he is a bad guy and as such has a pronounced chance of overestimating himself.

#35 Edited by jacobsben (108 posts) - - Show Bio
#36 Posted by DarkShadows (742 posts) - - Show Bio

I think they might actually do it, judging by this cover:

Teen Titans #24

#37 Posted by jacobsben (108 posts) - - Show Bio
#38 Posted by DarkShadows (742 posts) - - Show Bio

@jacobsben: True, but I believe this issue is part of the Villain's month thing from what I heard.

#39 Posted by jacobsben (108 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkshadows:

no villains month is September the October issue toes int to the series forever evil which could mean ravent is just having a relapse due to whatever is going on in that series anyway cover can be deceiving rmember the may cover

#40 Edited by jacobsben (108 posts) - - Show Bio

I just need her to be ok

#41 Posted by Yokergeist (12355 posts) - - Show Bio

They already ruined her appearance, so now they are going to ruin her story. Thanks a lot DC for ruining her.

#42 Posted by SeekerOfTheTruth (5 posts) - - Show Bio

I really hope that DC drops this whole 'bad girl' image for Raven. It goes against almost every aspect of her old personality. Instead of the Raven we all came to love for her strong will to fight her evil side and be a hero, they will taint her story by making her a villain. I've read all of Raven's story and I love all of it. I hope they at least do her past story justice by making the new one better than ever before.

#43 Posted by Outside_85 (8993 posts) - - Show Bio

A slight update on this subject, since I read this months Superboy (issue 27) and... well for once thing, Wolfman clearly writes Raven the way he wants to, which is actually a bit like I would imagine the grown up cartoon Raven would turn out personality wise. As for the subject of villainy; Raven has plans of her own regarding the Titans and Jon Kent and is actively manipulating Jon to do what she wants him to, and by the looks of the last page, it is done to impress Trigon.

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