most complicated and confusing marvel character

#1 Posted by iSHADOW (2269 posts) - - Show Bio

im pretty confident in saying that psylocke may have the most confusing history of all the marvel characters. i think her complexity makes it really difficult for a reader to connect with the character. even with the whole stealthy sexy asian psychic ninja brit thing shes got going i think most people have lost interest in her and thats a shame.

#2 Posted by The_MVPs (84693 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm gonna have to say Supergirls history is much more confusing. Dont let Oracle see this cause he'll fell up two pages explaining it.
Post Edited:2007-06-15 23:45:53

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#3 Posted by Prodigal Son (3473 posts) - - Show Bio

"iSHADOW" Now that's funny.

  • Get it? "Eye Shadow" *

Welcome to the Vine.

#4 Posted by Starleafgirl (1342 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel character. Supergirl isn't a Marvel character. And the fact that Psylocke died but then possessed an Asian woman is nothing compared to Hollow.

Hollow premiered in Generation X #1 as Penance. But wait, this Penance was actually Monet trapped inside a body that her brother may or may not have created out of thin air as a "penance" for her attitude and rejecting his offer for the two of them to rule the world together. Sure, Gateway spoke the word "Penance," which we later learned was his way of saying rescuing Penance from Emplate (the brother) is his penance for his part in the massacre of Emma Frost's original Hellions, but this isn't her name. Still, the comic used it as her name because they had nothing better to go on at the time.

Then came the fact that Emplate calls Penance "Yvette" and appears shocked that she'd betray him. Okay, so Penance -- I mean Monet's -- real name is Yvette? But isn't Penance a mute/deaf 14 year old from Yugoslavia? Sorry, that's been retconned! Turns out Monet was technically born in Bosnia and has many middle names, one of which is Yvette. Uh-huh...

Okay, so Penance was really Monet. Wait, well, her twin sisters have been masquarading as Monet since Generation X #1. Generation X #1, you see, featured both Monet (who is really her twin sisters) and Penance (who is really an empty shell with Monet trapped inside!). Riiight. And then, to free their sister Monet from Penance, they have to enter the Penance body.

So... now Penance is really Nicole and Claudette (the twin sisters). Okay, sure. So there is no real Penance and, in issue #57 when they're freed from the body, the "real" Penance is just an empty Penance body because "Penance" was created by Emplate. Remember?

But wouldn't ya know it, in the next issue she's -- sorry, that's Penance, not Monet or the twin sisters -- is running around the woods and ends up scratching HOME on a tree. A few issues later, she reveals a bit of her past in the form of a mysterious ice sculpture.

So there is a real Penance mutant or did someone unaccounted for appear in the dance hall when the twin sisters were freed in issue #57 and/or sneak into the medical lab where the Penance body was and ridiculously somehow get trapped in the Penance body without the twins' power to put people in bodies and combine into their older sister Monet? Lol.

Now, some years later, despite having previously sent to northern Africa, Hollow is sleeping on Phil Urich's floor. I may only have a rudimentry understanding of Psylocke, but I think Hollow takes the cake. Someone can feel free to spout an even more complicated and confusing Marvel character if he/she can think of one, though. :)

P.S. I love Hollow/Penance no matter who is inside, but damn, that's a complicated character.

#5 Posted by Octagon Enigma (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

Starleafgirl says:

"Marvel character. Supergirl isn't a Marvel character. And the fact that Psylocke died but then possessed an Asian woman is nothing compared to Hollow. Hollow premiered in Generation X #1 as Penance. But wait, this Penance was actually Monet trapped inside a body that her brother may or may not have created out of thin air as a "penance" for her attitude and rejecting his offer for the two of them to rule the world together. Sure, Gateway spoke the word "Penance," which we later learned was his way of saying rescuing Penance from Emplate (the brother) is his penance for his part in the massacre of Emma Frost's original Hellions, but this isn't her name. Still, the comic used it as her name because they had nothing better to go on at the time. Then came the fact that Emplate calls Penance "Yvette" and appears shocked that she'd betray him. Okay, so Penance -- I mean Monet's -- real name is Yvette? But isn't Penance a mute/deaf 14 year old from Yugoslavia? Sorry, that's been retconned! Turns out Monet was technically born in Bosnia and has many middle names, one of which is Yvette. Uh-huh... Okay, so Penance was really Monet. Wait, well, her twin sisters have been masquarading as Monet since Generation X #1. Generation X #1, you see, featured both Monet (who is really her twin sisters) and Penance (who is really an empty shell with Monet trapped inside!). Riiight. And then, to free their sister Monet from Penance, they have to enter the Penance body. So... now Penance is really Nicole and Claudette (the twin sisters). Okay, sure. So there is no real Penance and, in issue #57 when they're freed from the body, the "real" Penance is just an empty Penance body because "Penance" was created by Emplate. *Remember?* But wouldn't ya know it, in the next issue she's -- sorry, that's Penance, not Monet or the twin sisters -- is running around the woods and ends up scratching HOME on a tree. A few issues later, she reveals a bit of her past in the form of a mysterious ice sculpture. So there *is* a real Penance mutant or did someone unaccounted for appear in the dance hall when the twin sisters were freed in issue #57 and/or sneak into the medical lab where the Penance body was and ridiculously somehow get trapped in the Penance body without the twins' power to put people in bodies and combine into their older sister Monet? Lol. Now, some years later, despite having previously sent to northern Africa, Hollow is sleeping on Phil Urich's floor. I may only have a rudimentry understanding of Psylocke, but I think Hollow takes the cake. Someone can feel free to spout an even more complicated and confusing Marvel character if he/she can think of one, though. :) P.S. I love Hollow/Penance no matter who is inside, but damn, that's a complicated character."

Heh, we were worried about Oracle posting a page about Supergirl...

#6 Posted by The_MVPs (84693 posts) - - Show Bio

Octagon Enigma says:

"Starleafgirl says:
"Marvel character. Supergirl isn't a Marvel character. And the fact that Psylocke died but then possessed an Asian woman is nothing compared to Hollow. Hollow premiered in Generation X #1 as Penance. But wait, this Penance was actually Monet trapped inside a body that her brother may or may not have created out of thin air as a "penance" for her attitude and rejecting his offer for the two of them to rule the world together. Sure, Gateway spoke the word "Penance," which we later learned was his way of saying rescuing Penance from Emplate (the brother) is his penance for his part in the massacre of Emma Frost's original Hellions, but this isn't her name. Still, the comic used it as her name because they had nothing better to go on at the time. Then came the fact that Emplate calls Penance "Yvette" and appears shocked that she'd betray him. Okay, so Penance -- I mean Monet's -- real name is Yvette? But isn't Penance a mute/deaf 14 year old from Yugoslavia? Sorry, that's been retconned! Turns out Monet was technically born in Bosnia and has many middle names, one of which is Yvette. Uh-huh... Okay, so Penance was really Monet. Wait, well, her twin sisters have been masquarading as Monet since Generation X #1. Generation X #1, you see, featured both Monet (who is really her twin sisters) and Penance (who is really an empty shell with Monet trapped inside!). Riiight. And then, to free their sister Monet from Penance, they have to enter the Penance body. So... now Penance is really Nicole and Claudette (the twin sisters). Okay, sure. So there is no real Penance and, in issue #57 when they're freed from the body, the "real" Penance is just an empty Penance body because "Penance" was created by Emplate. *Remember?* But wouldn't ya know it, in the next issue she's -- sorry, that's Penance, not Monet or the twin sisters -- is running around the woods and ends up scratching HOME on a tree. A few issues later, she reveals a bit of her past in the form of a mysterious ice sculpture. So there *is* a real Penance mutant or did someone unaccounted for appear in the dance hall when the twin sisters were freed in issue #57 and/or sneak into the medical lab where the Penance body was and ridiculously somehow get trapped in the Penance body without the twins' power to put people in bodies and combine into their older sister Monet? Lol. Now, some years later, despite having previously sent to northern Africa, Hollow is sleeping on Phil Urich's floor. I may only have a rudimentry understanding of Psylocke, but I think Hollow takes the cake. Someone can feel free to spout an even more complicated and confusing Marvel character if he/she can think of one, though. :) P.S. I love Hollow/Penance no matter who is inside, but damn, that's a complicated character."
Heh, we were worried about Oracle posting a page about Supergirl..."

Lmao.

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#7 Posted by Shatterstar (4547 posts) - - Show Bio

Who was the writer that decided that Penance was really Hollow? Lobdell?

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#8 Posted by iSHADOW (2269 posts) - - Show Bio

Post Deleted.

#9 Posted by iSHADOW (2269 posts) - - Show Bio

Post Deleted.

#10 Posted by zero edge (3696 posts) - - Show Bio

I still <3 psylocke

#11 Posted by Shatterstar (4547 posts) - - Show Bio

zero edge says:

"I still <3 psylocke"

you <3 the boobs!

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#12 Posted by Nny (245 posts) - - Show Bio

Mystique is pretty confusing. So is Shadowcat . . .

#13 Posted by Constantine (16046 posts) - - Show Bio

Post Deleted.

#14 Posted by zero edge (3696 posts) - - Show Bio

Shatterstar says:

"zero edge says:
"I still <3 psylocke"

you <3 the boobs! "

guilty

#15 Posted by Lady Tlieso (10198 posts) - - Show Bio

i'm not seeing what is so complicated about Psylocke. Yes, she's had alot of things happen to her (eyes replaced with cameras, asian body, dying, etc.) but it's not nearly as bad some characters. penance/hollow is a great example. if people have lost interest in her it's because they should have left her with the x-men & not put her in the exiles. i may be a bit biased since she's my favorite but she hasn't been used properly for a long time.

#16 Posted by Starleafgirl (1342 posts) - - Show Bio

Shatterstar says:

"Who was the writer that decided that Penance was really Hollow? Lobdell?"

The writer who decided? Listen, they'd probably still be calling her Penance if the higher ups hadn't decided Penance would be a cool thing to call Speedball because he feels guilty over Stamford and now wants to do penance or somesuch, rofl. Because of that, someone at Marvel decided Hollow was good enough for Penance. She's called Hollow in The Loners, written by C.B. Cebulski, though he unofficially hasn't been very thrilled with the name change himself. ;) But you see, they had to call her something.

Lobdell is the one who originally created Penance as a 14-year-old traumatized deaf/mute mutant from Yugoslavia who had spent several years as Emplate's prisoner, subjected to torture. ...which is a much cooler idea, IMO. As it stands, she's Monet, Emplate's prisoner for some unspecified number of years, then she's the twins, etc. etc. what I said in my last post, lol.
Post Edited:2007-06-16 23:22:18

#17 Posted by Shatterstar (4547 posts) - - Show Bio

Starleafgirl says:

"Shatterstar says:
"Who was the writer that decided that Penance was really Hollow? Lobdell?"

The writer who decided? Listen, they'd probably still be calling her Penance if the higher ups hadn't decided Penance would be a cool thing to call Speedball because he feels guilty over Stamford and now wants to do penance or somesuch, rofl. Because of that, someone at Marvel decided Hollow was good enough for Penance. She's called Hollow in The Loners, written by C.B. Cebulski, though he unofficially hasn't been very thrilled with the name change himself. ;) But you see, they had to call her something.

Lobdell is the one who originally created Penance as a 14-year-old traumatized deaf/mute mutant from Yugoslavia who had spent several years as Emplate's prisoner, subjected to torture. ...which is a much cooler idea, IMO. As it stands, she's Monet, Emplate's prisoner for some unspecified number of years, then she's the twins, etc. etc. what I said in my last post, lol.
Post Edited:2007-06-16 23:22:18"

Yea I thought her origin was pretty damn cool as it was in the original run of GenX, one of the more interesting ones in the book, definitely reflective of what direction the book was supposed to be.

I just wanted to know what numbskull decided they should pull the whole it was really M all along. I hated when they did that with Domino originally too. Its like...ok so I've got New Mutants #98/99, do I have Domino's first appearance of Copycat as Domino's 1st appearance? Horribly confusing retcon.

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#18 Posted by Starleafgirl (1342 posts) - - Show Bio

Shatterstar says:

I just wanted to know what numbskull decided they should pull the whole it was really M all along.

Oh, I see! The name we have all learned to hate and fear is none other than Larry Hama. ;)

#19 Posted by Darkchild (40624 posts) - - Show Bio

Octagon Enigma says:

"Starleafgirl says:
"Marvel character. Supergirl isn't a Marvel character. And the fact that Psylocke died but then possessed an Asian woman is nothing compared to Hollow. Hollow premiered in Generation X #1 as Penance. But wait, this Penance was actually Monet trapped inside a body that her brother may or may not have created out of thin air as a "penance" for her attitude and rejecting his offer for the two of them to rule the world together. Sure, Gateway spoke the word "Penance," which we later learned was his way of saying rescuing Penance from Emplate (the brother) is his penance for his part in the massacre of Emma Frost's original Hellions, but this isn't her name. Still, the comic used it as her name because they had nothing better to go on at the time. Then came the fact that Emplate calls Penance "Yvette" and appears shocked that she'd betray him. Okay, so Penance -- I mean Monet's -- real name is Yvette? But isn't Penance a mute/deaf 14 year old from Yugoslavia? Sorry, that's been retconned! Turns out Monet was technically born in Bosnia and has many middle names, one of which is Yvette. Uh-huh... Okay, so Penance was really Monet. Wait, well, her twin sisters have been masquarading as Monet since Generation X #1. Generation X #1, you see, featured both Monet (who is really her twin sisters) and Penance (who is really an empty shell with Monet trapped inside!). Riiight. And then, to free their sister Monet from Penance, they have to enter the Penance body. So... now Penance is really Nicole and Claudette (the twin sisters). Okay, sure. So there is no real Penance and, in issue #57 when they're freed from the body, the "real" Penance is just an empty Penance body because "Penance" was created by Emplate. *Remember?* But wouldn't ya know it, in the next issue she's -- sorry, that's Penance, not Monet or the twin sisters -- is running around the woods and ends up scratching HOME on a tree. A few issues later, she reveals a bit of her past in the form of a mysterious ice sculpture. So there *is* a real Penance mutant or did someone unaccounted for appear in the dance hall when the twin sisters were freed in issue #57 and/or sneak into the medical lab where the Penance body was and ridiculously somehow get trapped in the Penance body without the twins' power to put people in bodies and combine into their older sister Monet? Lol. Now, some years later, despite having previously sent to northern Africa, Hollow is sleeping on Phil Urich's floor. I may only have a rudimentry understanding of Psylocke, but I think Hollow takes the cake. Someone can feel free to spout an even more complicated and confusing Marvel character if he/she can think of one, though. :) P.S. I love Hollow/Penance no matter who is inside, but damn, that's a complicated character."

Heh, we were worried about Oracle posting a page about Supergirl..."

haha we always have soem one just like Oracle on here every night

#20 Posted by Shatterstar (4547 posts) - - Show Bio

Starleafgirl says:

"Shatterstar says:
I just wanted to know what numbskull decided they should pull the whole it was really M all along.

Oh, I see! The name we have all learned to hate and fear is none other than Larry Hama. ;)"

awww

Larry Larry Larry. Well its not the first time he pulled crap like that.

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#21 Posted by Starleafgirl (1342 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol, I was thinking about what you said about Oracle posting about Supergirl, that's why I tried to keep it short. long pause I'm not saying I succeeded, jeez! Stop looking at me like I'm crazy! lol.

#22 Posted by PenanceS (1 posts) - - Show Bio

Hey I loved Penance in Gen X, and am waiting to get the loners book to see her as Hollow. Yeah we all loved her as penance, but what can we do we don't OWN the character. In reality even the esteemed writers don't own their character's. I cannot wait to read her as Hollow, and am really interested to see Rob Baldwin as penance.

As long as they keep writing interesting story lines than i'll keep reading.

#23 Posted by Iron Apollo (2196 posts) - - Show Bio

Shatterstar says:

"zero edge says:
"I still <3 psylocke"

you <3 the boobs! "

Her's aren't big, well by comicbook standards anyway

#24 Posted by Omega Mega Man (52 posts) - - Show Bio

I love her more She is perfect boobs booty and all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#25 Posted by Vance Astro (91233 posts) - - Show Bio

Mystique,The Sentry,Agent X

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#26 Posted by Leliel (1452 posts) - - Show Bio

Well she is confusing and all but that what makes her to me at least more cool she gone through a lot, what can we say about Magik and Mikhail both Colossus sibling have juicy stories he not so much, yet somehow his way cooler then Mikhail

#27 Posted by pixelized (62882 posts) - - Show Bio

Illyana Rasputin

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#28 Edited by jhazzroucher (15792 posts) - - Show Bio

@PenanceS said:

Hey I loved Penance in Gen X, and am waiting to get the loners book to see her as Hollow. Yeah we all loved her as penance, but what can we do we don't OWN the character. In reality even the esteemed writers don't own their character's. I cannot wait to read her as Hollow, and am really interested to see Rob Baldwin as penance.

As long as they keep writing interesting story lines than i'll keep reading.

Penance/Hollow or M? or Yvette or the twins or whatever or whoever she is, she is the most complicated character in Marvel and nobody's more complicated than her in DC Comics too.

#29 Posted by ragdollpurps (15572 posts) - - Show Bio

If you actually sit down... And chronologically look at all the crap Psylocke's been through, it's not that complicated. Really the only complication is about just how the two bodies were swapped.

#30 Posted by Night Thrasher (3689 posts) - - Show Bio

@pixelized said:

Illyana Rasputin
#31 Posted by luckydomino1 (491 posts) - - Show Bio

that title falls in the hands of racheal grey sorry

#32 Posted by PhoenixoftheTides (3553 posts) - - Show Bio

She's not that complicated. She's just had her powers and body manipulated by other characters and writers pretty often that it doesn't seem that she has a personality anymore, and is more of a mannequin for creative teams to do whatever they want with.

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