AvX Psylocke vs Daredevil *Spoilers*

#1 Posted by Thunderscream (1809 posts) - - Show Bio

I get that Daredevil is incredibly skilled in hand to hand and that the fact that both he and Psylocke were trained by The Hand put them neck and neck....but Psylocke's a freaking telekinetic (and has been for quite some time) and that aspect of her power was completely ignored in favor of plain telepathy....with which she made horrible rookie mistakes that a skilled warrior and omega level telepath would never make.

It ended up being a draw, which is fine....whatever, but I just feel a little cheated because the purple haired character portrayed here doesn't read like the Betsy I've grown to love.

#2 Posted by jwalser3 (4796 posts) - - Show Bio

How was her telekinesis ignored? I thought the ending was actually good. And what rookie mistakes did she make?

Also I loved what Dare Devil says to her at the end of the fight.

#3 Posted by Hareil0079 (429 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm glad Remender wrote that fight and kept Betts intact, I see a future pairing between Betts and DD working side by side down the road for UA.. maybe (wishful thinking maybe)

#4 Posted by mgrman5 (581 posts) - - Show Bio

@jwalser3: Psylocke TK was ignored because she never used it not even a little, I mean I guess the writers wanted to make the battle a little more fairer, but Psylocke could have used her TK just a little like to push Daredevil against a wall or to deflect his billy club or even to just nudge him a little, but she didn't use it at all, which okay I just would have liked them to acknowledged she still has it. It may have been the fact that Psylocke wasn't totally in the fight her emotions were to riled up and angry to use her TK but whatever. As for her using her telepathy on Daredevil the way she used it does seem a bit odd just going into his mind and trying to shut it down without her having any defense up for herself to prevent DD sense overloading her, but I am not a telepath so I don't know what it is like to go into a hyper sense powered guy's head it could really suck. Other than those issues the issue itself was very good and the writing and art were great I loved the dialog towards the end with DD and Psylocke and how they both were manipulating each others weakness and being all ninja it was cool.

#5 Posted by jwalser3 (4796 posts) - - Show Bio

@mgrman5:Sorry, I was thinking of telepathy when I read telekinesis. Major brain fart. Forgive me.

#6 Posted by mgrman5 (581 posts) - - Show Bio

@jwalser3: No its completely fine :) I get, I mix up words all the time. Do you think she still has her telekinesis because in what I have seen her in recently she hasn't been using it as much as her telepathy, which is a shame because it can be pretty useful especially in a scenario that telepathy is not super effective like in the Daredevil fight or like when she was fighting Archangel in X-Force. I mean she could have TK Archangels's metal feathers but if I recall correctly she didn't deflect them with her TK, or even veer them of course she just watched as they hit her.

#7 Posted by jwalser3 (4796 posts) - - Show Bio

@mgrman5:I think she still HAS is but who knows. It could be CIS or maybe she hasn't found a situation were she has had to use it.

#8 Posted by mgrman5 (581 posts) - - Show Bio

@jwalser3: I agree it could be her not wanting to actually fight DD and hurt him to badly or just not having the incentive to use it. Totally a CIS moment their.

I know this a off topic but seeing as it is in the same book what did you think of the Emma vs Thor fight, I thought it was well done and funny how Emma just insults Thor like he was some lolly bum or someone just being her regular rude self to a god nonetheless it was good. The fight itself had some inconsistent moments like Emma not being able to handle Tho'rs mind just because he is a god, I mean she does have the PF that should broaden her train of thought to at least his level like being able to think on a whole nother train of thought like a god would but I guess not. And when she went diamond form I thought that part was cool how Thor was beating on her and eventually Emma got shattered and she turned around and use that to her advantage it was nice.

@Thunderscream: I glad you made this thread because this fight had me thinking about how Psylocke was fighting DD it was a bit out of character for her, still a good issue though.

#9 Posted by Madame_Mist (1325 posts) - - Show Bio

I like how Psylocke is a more physical than other telepaths such as Emma or Xavier. Emma relies on her diamond form but Betsy is not afraid to get into the heart of a fight.

Telepathy makes things rather boring and easy sometimes. Watching a good is much preferred.

#10 Posted by Joesoef95 (315 posts) - - Show Bio

@Madame_Mist said:

I like how Psylocke is a more physical than other telepaths such as Emma or Xavier. Emma relies on her diamond form but Betsy is not afraid to get into the heart of a fight.

Telepathy makes things rather boring and easy sometimes. Watching a good is much preferred.

Agreed

Hey can anyone post scans of the whole fight please?

#11 Posted by _Araneae_ (413 posts) - - Show Bio

Now I wish I could read this.

#12 Posted by jwalser3 (4796 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joesoef95:I could. Just give me a minute.

#13 Posted by jwalser3 (4796 posts) - - Show Bio
#14 Posted by Joesoef95 (315 posts) - - Show Bio

@jwalser3: Awesome. Thanks a lot brother

#15 Posted by daredevil21134 (10772 posts) - - Show Bio

This issue was awsome

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#16 Posted by Thunderscream (1809 posts) - - Show Bio

@Madame_Mist: @mgrman5: It's not that I didn't appreciate her more "hands on approach"....that's actually why I like her so much

As a veteran X-Man, she's encountered DD before...maybe, or she'd at least have been briefed on his capabilities. Any telepath with any experience would've known to tread carefully in his mind rather than abashedly barging in without putting up the proper shields.

Honestly, I only bought the issue because she's in it...I've been pretty disconnected from the whole AvX event. Otherwise I only pick up Uncanny X-Force, Walking Dead & Saga these days.

#17 Posted by Madame_Mist (1325 posts) - - Show Bio

@Thunderscream said:

@Madame_Mist: @mgrman5: It's not that I didn't appreciate her more "hands on approach"....that's actually why I like her so much

As a veteran X-Man, she's encountered DD before...maybe, or she'd at least have been briefed on his capabilities. Any telepath with any experience would've known to tread carefully in his mind rather than abashedly barging in without putting up the proper shields.

Honestly, I only bought the issue because she's in it...I've been pretty disconnected from the whole AvX event. Otherwise I only pick up Uncanny X-Force, Walking Dead & Saga these days.

I completely understand. It's unfortunate that writers are just so inconsistent with her.

#18 Posted by darthfury78 (761 posts) - - Show Bio

Now if only Psylocke would battle Spider-Man!!!

#19 Edited by Vance Astro (91105 posts) - - Show Bio
@Thunderscream said:

I get that Daredevil is incredibly skilled in hand to hand and that the fact that both he and Psylocke were trained by The Hand put them neck and neck....but Psylocke's a freaking telekinetic (and has been for quite some time) and that aspect of her power was completely ignored in favor of plain telepathy....with which she made horrible rookie mistakes that a skilled warrior and omega level telepath would never make.

It ended up being a draw, which is fine....whatever, but I just feel a little cheated because the purple haired character portrayed here doesn't read like the Betsy I've grown to love.

Daredevil wasn't trained by the Hand and he and Pyslocke aren't equally skilled.He's better.
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#20 Posted by Thunderscream (1809 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

Daredevil wasn't trained by the Hand and he and Pyslocke aren't equally skilled.He's better.

Right, except his inner monologue says, "She was also trained by The Hand." Also. Inferring that he himself was trained by The Hand.

#21 Posted by KainScion (2973 posts) - - Show Bio

@Thunderscream said:

@Vance Astro said:

Daredevil wasn't trained by the Hand and he and Pyslocke aren't equally skilled.He's better.

Right, except his inner monologue says, "She was also trained by The Hand." Also. Inferring that he himself was trained by The Hand.

that bugged the hell out of me. i dont recall dd ever training with the hand. and vance is right. dd is a better fighter than betsy. sorry.

#22 Posted by Outside_85 (8083 posts) - - Show Bio

@KainScion: @Vance Astro: While I dont know for sure, Daredevils extensive stay with the Hand that culminated in Shadowlands...couldnt he have been training with them during that?

#23 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
@Thunderscream said:

@Vance Astro said:

Daredevil wasn't trained by the Hand and he and Pyslocke aren't equally skilled.He's better.

Right, except his inner monologue says, "She was also trained by The Hand." Also. Inferring that he himself was trained by The Hand.

No. He says, "She reminds me of someone. Also trained by the Hand." 
 
That someone he was referring to was Elektra, hence the connection in his mind between her and Elizabeth. Daredevil was trained by Stick and the Chaste, and nothing in the issue contradicts it.
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#24 Posted by TDK_1997 (14456 posts) - - Show Bio

I actually thought that the battle was extremely well done and I was pretty surprised.The match was great and I thought that DD would eventually win but I like it as a draw,too.

#25 Posted by Hareil0079 (429 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@Thunderscream said:

I get that Daredevil is incredibly skilled in hand to hand and that the fact that both he and Psylocke were trained by The Hand put them neck and neck....but Psylocke's a freaking telekinetic (and has been for quite some time) and that aspect of her power was completely ignored in favor of plain telepathy....with which she made horrible rookie mistakes that a skilled warrior and omega level telepath would never make.

It ended up being a draw, which is fine....whatever, but I just feel a little cheated because the purple haired character portrayed here doesn't read like the Betsy I've grown to love.

Daredevil wasn't trained by the Hand and he and Pyslocke aren't equally skilled.He's better.

Yea I've read that DD was trained or recieved some training from the Hand

#26 Edited by Hareil0079 (429 posts) - - Show Bio

@mgrman5 said:

@jwalser3: Psylocke TK was ignored because she never used it not even a little, I mean I guess the writers wanted to make the battle a little more fairer, but Psylocke could have used her TK just a little like to push Daredevil against a wall or to deflect his billy club or even to just nudge him a little, but she didn't use it at all, which okay I just would have liked them to acknowledged she still has it. It may have been the fact that Psylocke wasn't totally in the fight her emotions were to riled up and angry to use her TK but whatever. As for her using her telepathy on Daredevil the way she used it does seem a bit odd just going into his mind and trying to shut it down without her having any defense up for herself to prevent DD sense overloading her, but I am not a telepath so I don't know what it is like to go into a hyper sense powered guy's head it could really suck. Other than those issues the issue itself was very good and the writing and art were great I loved the dialog towards the end with DD and Psylocke and how they both were manipulating each others weakness and being all ninja it was cool.

Psylocke prefers her TP over her TK, hell she even stated it in UXF:AS that she cant use both at the same time as skilled as she is. (She stated that to Logan when they were fighting the SK)

Edit: I believe also she prefers TP but when ever you see her use feats of strength that doesn't seem right, it's her using her TK to give false impression of that immense strength,(kind like how jean was able to toss gladiator miles into space like a rag doll in the cartoon, dont know if that happen in the comics during the DPS) like she did in her fight with DD and busted a wall.

#27 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
@Hareil0079Daredevil underwent a series of trials to assume leadership of the Hand, but has otherwise never been trained by them. 
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#28 Posted by Hareil0079 (429 posts) - - Show Bio

@Morpheus_ said:

@Hareil0079: Daredevil underwent a series of trials to assume leadership of the Hand, but has otherwise never been trained by them.

Ah, I see but still wouldn't that mean he had some slight training from them if anything cause going through a process like that isn't a simple feat.

#29 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
@Hareil0079: The trials were a test of resolve and mettle, so to speak, not really about his fighting skill. But I clarified what Daredevil meant when he said "also trained by the Hand" in his inner monologue while fighting Betsy above.
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#30 Posted by Hareil0079 (429 posts) - - Show Bio

@Morpheus_ said:

@Hareil0079: The trials were a test of resolve and mettle, so to speak, not really about his fighting skill. But I clarified what Daredevil meant when he said "also trained by the Hand" in his inner monologue while fighting Betsy above.

No, No, I understand that, I guess what I'm saying is at some point he may have some Hand training but until the writers point that out, I guess it's safe to say he's just that damn good.

#31 Posted by daredevil21134 (10772 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hareil0079 said:

@Morpheus_ said:

@Hareil0079: The trials were a test of resolve and mettle, so to speak, not really about his fighting skill. But I clarified what Daredevil meant when he said "also trained by the Hand" in his inner monologue while fighting Betsy above.

No, No, I understand that, I guess what I'm saying is at some point he may have some Hand training but until the writers point that out, I guess it's safe to say he's just that damn good.

He's never been trained by the Hand

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#32 Posted by x_29 (2274 posts) - - Show Bio

It is Avx versus, no one should really care.

#33 Posted by AutodidacticLad (41 posts) - - Show Bio

I assumed he recognized her style because it's similar to Elektra's (who was also trained by The Hand).

#34 Edited by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

AvX is ridiculous and fuelled by PIS. Just wait til it's over, don't buy it, then read the stuff that comes after. 

#35 Posted by Vance Astro (91105 posts) - - Show Bio
@Hareil0079 said:

No, No, I understand that, I guess what I'm saying is at some point he may have some Hand training but until the writers point that out, I guess it's safe to say he's just that damn good.

The Hand doesn't have any very skilled members. I don't know what training he could receive from them that would be worth a crap.
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#36 Posted by Hareil0079 (429 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@Hareil0079 said:

No, No, I understand that, I guess what I'm saying is at some point he may have some Hand training but until the writers point that out, I guess it's safe to say he's just that damn good.

The Hand doesn't have any very skilled members. I don't know what training he could receive from them that would be worth a crap.

Fair enough, but they still had Elecktra and Psylocke that were Hand members for a bit

#37 Posted by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

@x_29 said:

It is Avx versus, no one should really care.

#38 Posted by Tazirai (117 posts) - - Show Bio

DD also has mental shields in his head.. which I think is stupid.. but his mind has been invaded before, and he's developed ways to counteract mentats.

I like Psylocke being Physical, but not a stupid fighter, I hate issues where she just rushes in.. She was never portrayed that way in her old body, so the Action Junkie thing needs to go poof! You can be an action junkie and still play smart.. I do Parkour I know.. One wrong spill and splat it's a wrap.

#39 Posted by bansheesonicscream (119 posts) - - Show Bio

I know i'm sounding like a noob but what AVX means?

#40 Posted by daredevil21134 (10772 posts) - - Show Bio

@bansheesonicscream said:

I know i'm sounding like a noob but what AVX means?

Avenges Vs X-men

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#41 Posted by bansheesonicscream (119 posts) - - Show Bio

well this fight could go either way

TP means telepathy and TK means telekinesis right.I'm new here and I don't know that much

#42 Posted by EmmaGraceFrost (44 posts) - - Show Bio

The battle made me very interested in Psylocke I normally don't read anything without Emma Frost but reading this the other day made me sooo interested in her but as for the battle I HATED it in my opinion Psylocke should have finished that easily her tk for one and for what I know please correct me If am wrong but since she has been brought back didn't her telepathy become immensely stronger even a noob telepath would have known to take precautions on entering ANY MIND.... but another thing is maybe the writing didn't want TP being used because Emma is ONE of the most POWERFUL TP user and with the phoenix force she should have been able to handle thors mind so maybe the writers felt like TP would make the fight to easy..who knows...for example back when Emma battled professor X she took precautions knowing she was out matched so she set traps Im sure Psylocke should have known that!!!

#43 Posted by EternalGrandMaster (121 posts) - - Show Bio

@bansheesonicscream said:

well this fight could go either way

TP means telepathy and TK means telekinesis right.I'm new here and I don't know that much

Yes that's what it means. And the only way the fight goes is to Psylocke. Psylocke knows DD senses are super enhanced she wouldn't enter that part of his Brain/Mind or allowed it to affect her as it would be an overload for her...it's just stupid she wouldn't attach his senses to her. Also she didn't even use her Tk in the match which is a STOMP no arguing this. For how they orchestrated it I don't like how Psylocke was tagged so many times by DD and all she landed was a throw that caused him to leave a trail of blood and a kick while she was laying on the floor. It was a Draw but DD was leading too much......Psylocke turns all DD senses off kicks his ass or send him through a few brick walls via TK.

#44 Edited by walteion (91 posts) - - Show Bio

the issue was great. i loved the fighting & the dailogue. i gess psylocke didn't want to hurt DD & when she entered his mind ,she wanted to reason with him or convince him. & i gess the reasons for psylocke not using her TK are :

1- the writers wanted a fair ninja fight.

2- psylocke telekinatic level is pretty low & she have to concenrate.

3- after getting in DD's head ,it made her mind temprairly weak, so she can't concentrate & use her TK.

4- the fight was so fast & she didn't have time to think & use her TK.

#45 Posted by bansheesonicscream (119 posts) - - Show Bio

psylocke TK is pretty low,I now this and that's because I think DD would win

#46 Posted by warlock360 (28040 posts) - - Show Bio

Looks like she woulda lost if he didn't go after her

just to stirr the charcoal a bit ^.~

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