YoungJustice

@whiteraven I only tagged you because you commented previously, but to reiterate as a previous comment stated, this is a CaV between Void and I only, not a battle for third parties to debate. Please delete your comment as its not relevant to the CaV at hand, thanks.

Tag List

@killianduclark@scarlet_wiccan@koays@deathhero61@professorrespect@geekryan@datstupidguy@hys@whiteraven@falsepromise@akz@death4bunnies@redhotstar@cheth

Had the flu (or a cold, or COVID, still not sure), but that's done now. Let's do this!

***

Change Incarnate

You've provided a great opener @thevoidofdeath, let me present mine.

Sersi, Cassandra Nova, and Meggan are each powerhouses in their own rights, but together, they represent change. Sersi, a changer of matter. Cassandra, a changer of minds. Meggan, a changer of worlds. Individually, their abilities allow them to do great feats, but together, they become an unstoppable mass of evolving unpredictability.

Let's go through each, starting off with the one I'd assume most do not know, Meggan.

Meggan thee Faerie

As a Faerie and Mutant, Meggan has worn many hats throughout the years.

She started as emotional leech, with no control over her powers, allowing her to shapeshift into what those perceived her to be.

For a majority of her young life, she was a were-woman, because she was seen to be a monster:

Eventually, she learned to control her power more, being able to actively choose when to, and when not to activate her abilities. This granted her amazing utilization of her abilities.

She was able to use Rachel Grey's memories to shape-shift into numerous X-Men, being able to put up a valiant effort against Mad Jim Jaspers.

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After being transferred into an environment with poisonous air, she transmutes her body to survive it.

She spontaneously leeches Rachel Grey's powers, so much so to where the Phoenix cannot tell her apart from Rachel.

Lastly, in her most impressive feat of this "era", she is able to transform into a form "matching" Galactus, but opts out of keeping it due to it's impact on the planet, and the fact that he's more powerful given that he's already consumed several planets.

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After a deeper dive into her past, it was revealed that she is an empathic shape-changer, able to use her, or others emotions to shape-shift her body into her desires.

With this new found power, she honed her abilities. She gained the ability to access the Alshra, a spirit plane. With the Alshra, she could manipulate and analyze world energies.

She drains a buffed Captain Britain, drawing out his energy and using it to destroy a lighthouse across every plane of reality.

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When in a state of sadness, she was so overwhelming that Feron's magic couldn't override her emotion, and he was overcome with it as well.

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In her most impressive feat of this era, she reverses Mad Jim Jaspers' reality warping, simply willing herself to be unaffected, stating that "the threads of order" do not bind her.

Eventually, she become in tune enough with the world for her to gain the ability to control the elements.

She is completely attuned to it, being able to see through the elements as if they're her, also being able to see the forces of electricity and psionic energies.

She takes the electricity away from helicopters, and manipulates the fire from propellant to take out another:

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In her most impressive feat from this era, she uses her powers to transmute the energies of a spike trap into an array of butterflies.

After getting married to Captain Britain, and maintaining permanent residency in Otherworld, she learned more adept magic, being able to empower herself with magical energies in addition to her mutant abilities. While in Hell, she took the name Gloriana (which she would keep, from here on out) and controlled a demon army.

She used her Hell army to take down Blackheart, allowing her escape.

She is able to shield out Psylocke with an elemental barrier.

In her most impressive feat of this era, after absorbing the power of a deity and being overwhelmed, Gloriana drains Rogue of the excess energy to heal her.

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Gloriana is not just a shape-shifter, or elemental, but a powerhouse of hax that allows for her to be unpredictable in battle, and completely varied in how she can approach battles.

Next up, we have the well respected "twin" of Charles Xavier...

Cassandra Nova

Cassandra Nova is a Mummandrai, a corporeal entity that exists inside the womb as a twin during pregnancy. Due to Xavier's mutation, Cassandra was able to use his powers to manifest into an actual child, but due to her being Cassandra, she tried to murder Xavier in the womb, gets killed, and was stillborn.

However, as a Mummandrai, her physical body being injured isn't a problem for her. She regrew her body and came back as a full potential genetic clone of Xavier, which combined with her Mummandrai gifts (and ability to walk), makes her even more deadly.

Telepathy

In her very first appearance, she attacks Xavier telepathically from a remote location while he's in Cerebro, which amplifies his telepathic power. He almost resorted to suicide to get her out of his head.

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Jean Grey can't probe her mind, and when Xavier tries to shut her body down, she sends them both back with a psionic blast:

After having her neck snapped and shot five times, she is still able to transfer herself into Xavier's mind and take it over without any of the telepaths on location realizing.

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She is able to plant a psychic control chip in Rachel Grey.

She completely demolishes the dragon, Pr!z the Red, mentally scarring it and killing it.

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Telekinesis

Due to her being Xavier in his most optimal form, she also has telekinesis, a power that Xavier is only recently is developing.

She destroys Wolverine's arm down to his adamantium telekinetically.

She completely decimates a group of humans in a similar fashion.

She's faced Gladiator on two occasions, beating him (and several other Shiar) the first time:

The second time, she completely tanked his eyebeam attack:

Combat Ability

Despite her being psionically powered, she is quite handy when it comes to H2H combat.

She can use her mummudrai attributes to phase herself:

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She temporarily K.O's Jean in a fight:

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She easily takes on Delphos the Red and Pr!z the Red, defeating them both:

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Even in her bodiless form, she is completely capable of taking on Wolverine and Beast:

Lastly, while not explicitly combat related, it should be noted that there is no known way to kill Cassandra. She's been defeated two times in comics, neither viable in a battle.

The first time, she was eventually trapped in a random alien body and put in a box, which was then sealed and hidden. And even in this instance, Cassandra was able to send in a mental suggestion to Emma Frost before she was sealed for her to save her, which was successful.

The second time, Jean Grey had to develop a nanite that would re-program Nova to not hate mutants, which was successful, but still isn't actually stopping her, or viable in any real regard.

Even when Cassandra is killed, she can exist as a Mummandrai, and hop into other bodies. Killing her is an uphill battle, and one that no one has truly figure out yet.

Lastly, we have Sersi. The only good Eternal (which makes it even more asinine that they killed her in AXE, f*** off Gillen!)

Sersi

As an Eternal, Sersi is a amalgamation of powers and attributes. Strength, speed, durability, telepathy, (immortality until Marvel decided they needed an anti-climatic death for AXE), the whole nine.

However, Sersi is most famous for her matter manipulation. She has total and complete control over it, and it gives her a bevy of utilization. Let's look at it in depth.

Matter Manipulation

Most Eternals have some layer of matter manipulation, but Sersi is of the highest order.

She has frequent usage of it as transmutation, being able to turn people and things into anything of her desire.

Transmutation

She turns an alien's hand into malleable steel, using it to incap a guard.

She transmutes furniture into a band of living humans.

She manipulates Hulk's matter to make him dense, making him crash.

Outside of simple transmutation, she has many more advanced techniques, ones that make her even more effective in battle.

Advanced Matter Manipulation

She can create illusions, which act more so as copies, capable of physical combat slightly under the level of the copied person.

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She mixes her magic and matter manipulation. Turning Captain America into his pre-super soldier form, and casting a spell that we turn him back into his normal form after a set amount of hits taken.

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She's able to manipulate energies to be exact temperatures, 1200° fahrenheit in this case.

She changes a loose energy flare into a concentrated fireball, and directs it away from harm.

She completely stones White Vision, despite his intangibility.

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She incap's Thanos by plaguing his body with fungal poison, making his insides burn.

To take down a nega-bomb, she adjusts it's composition to make it null.

After an atomic compressor explodes, it sent out several Big Bang level pulses that eventually destroyed the universe, and attempted to overwrite it with a new one. Before the last pulse, Sersi was able to manipulate the molecules of herself, a room, and everyone inside to resist the explosion and not be impacted by the universe erasure.

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Sersi has complete and total control of molecular structure, there is nothing she can't do with them. To make things even better, as stated early, she has a slew of abilities from simply being an Eternal, which we'll get into now.

Telepathy and Telekinesis

She completely shut off Tony Stark's nervous system, and edited his memories of the conversation.

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Against Exodus (RT here for scaling), she fights him telepathically (and telekinetically, I believe, but that's not clear.) He ends up taking this (to an extent, as she gets up right after), which is impressive given that he scales the Xavier, Jean, and Rachel Grey.

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She links two leaders to their entire planet telepathically.

After being put in a memory trap, Sersi frees Ikaris as soon as she arrives.

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As said before, Sersi is a myriad of abilities, many of which synergize with my team to be even more of a hindrance for any opposition.

Alright, now that you know my team, let's go through our initial ten minutes of prep.

Prep

Firstly, Gloriana will transform into her true form. She technically doesn't need too, but it only takes a few seconds, and I want it to be clear what "form" she's in, in this battle.

Next, Cassandra will mind link us all together. Doing this will give Meggan the memories of both Sersi and Cassandra, allowing her to use the abilities of anyone either of them have been in considerable contact with. For ease of understanding, I've put a full list below of people who would fall into contact with.

At any point while mind-linked, Gloriana can use the abilities of those above without even shape-shifting.

To conclude our prep, Sersi will summon about ten copies of Cassandra (which will share her abilities, as Ikaris' were with his copies), and transmute all of us to be invisible, just to spread some confusion among the battlefield.

Battle

Before I get into my plan, let me rebut some of the points raised in my opponents opener.

Rebuttals

Breaks through Superman's mental defenses and reaches him. Maggedon is an incredibly telepathic being who has accomplished amazing feats. He has devastated Hector Hammond and TP'd entire planets from light-years away.

•" J'onn's mind was subconsciously keeping the souls of the entire Martian race (all of them telepaths) stranded on the living plane and unable to move on to the afterlife. He finally lets go and the Martian god H'ronmeer takes them away."

*" Nine White Martians who had absorbed the brain matter of human psychics to amplify their telepathy to the point where they could use it across light years attack J'onn. They subdue him physically but even their combined efforts cannot break through his mental shields."

" Enters the Spectre's mind and forces him onto the astral plane, pulling the rest of the JLA along for the ride."

*Jonn has read every mind in the Galaxy*

First of all, ALL of this is literally not even your own argument. This is copy pasted from this thread, and you didn't even post the feats associated.

Now to address the arguments you made yourself:

Despero starts out with a telepathic assault. Your telepathic intrusion will not work on Despero. One might recall his telepathic track record and find it'll bring frustration. Starro controls entire galaxies but cannot bend Despero's mind to his will because the defenses of the third eye are too robust. Despero is capable of telepathically attacking and blitzing through opponents . Your team will not be safe from his ability to be unpredictble on the battlefield. He's ruthless in his combative battles.

With Cassandra scaling above Xavier, and Sersi scaling to slightly below Exodus (who is proven to be around the level of Rachel Grey), and us having ten copies of Cassandra that share her abilities to a lesser degree, we have an enormous amount of telepathic resistance here.

His best and most consistent scaling is to Martian Manhunter, who I'd personally debate is equal to Current Xavier, and not above, but that'd require an entire separate CaV to truly be definite. However, that doesn't matter, because as has been shown in her character section, Cassandra Nova is already above Xavier, she defeated him and Jean with ease on several occasions, and they have never been able to take her down in a telepathic encounter. The only time anyone has ever bested her telepathically in any capacity is when Jean used Cerebro (an amplifier) to make her see an illusion, and once again, this still wasn't an actual telepathic battle.

While I know true telepaths are scarce in DC, it's still a problem for Despero that he ever only consistently defeats one telepath that's clearly under him in skill. It's true that Despero didn't fall under Starro's control, Starro still washed him throughout the entirety of R.E.B.E.L.S, so it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme. Cassandra has direct scaling to Xavier, Jean, and Rachel, who each scale to dozens of other telepaths that make her being a telepath of the highest tier an actuality, whereas Despero is kind of just a default top tier telepath. There's no evidence of him being able to take on a telepath of his level, much less eleven Cassandra Nova's.

Dr. Occult, with the information learned, will use his symbol of seven disk to redirect attacks. This disk is capable of redirecting supernatural attacks and of natural energy. (including Ene The occult is telepathic that can also ward off psionic, attacks to those who use them with the zeal. Including energy beams and transmutation rays, and that means if sersi uses any of the following it'll be redirected at her. In addition to this said, the same potency of that power will be redirected. Also, a telepathic assault on Occult won't work even without the seven disk. He was capable of affecting Mento who could casually read the minds of planteary telepaths .( Raven also shut mento down) Occult read a being who could read every mind in a dimension . and who filled the proxy with JLA and MMH.

Maybe I missed something, but...Sersi just transmutes his disk into a toy and kills him. While Sersi can throw out transmutation rays, it isn't really common, she just directly adjusts the matter, and I highly doubt it has any defense against that (especially since Sersi's abilities aren't magic based.)

With that being said, can it even deflect non-magic energy? I haven't done a deep dive but from everything I see of it, it's only deflecting magical attacks.

Occult himself seems pretty lacking, Sersi pulls out her party tricks and turns him into a pig.

Raven will also be prepping on the sidelines.Raven will stalk your team and wait for the right moment to attack.No one on this battlefield will be able to detect Raven, and there's proof. Raven's ports traverse time and space due to her source being extra-dimensional energy. This means her ports travel beyond time and space and into the realms of the known and unknown.... once she teleports you're in trouble. The proof is in the Monitor scan. Monitor has omniscience on a multiversal scale. He's able to find anyone no matter the time period or dimension they reside, and yet he was unable to find even a trace of Raven. . While the telepathic assault by Despero is occurring, and the redirecting of all attacks is happening by the occult. Raven is going to come after Meggan, and its going to be with the full force of the soul self. Raven is going to absorb meggan ,and she won't be able to stop her

I spent a considerable amount of time trying to find this Anti-Monitor/Raven scan, and couldn't, so if you could provide that in the counters I'd appreciate it.

However, this really doesn't matter. If Raven wants to hide in her soul self, she can have fun with that.

When it comes to her absorbing Gloriana, I highly doubt that. As shown in the Mad Jim Jaspers scan, she completely resists being changed in any way she doesn't want to be. She isn't going to be absorbed forcefully.

Additionally, she could very easily siphon her powers, as she did to Rachel Grey, and send her into a spiral. Raven already has a hard time controlling her mental stability, it being disrupted via another mind would be unrecoverable for her.

In that way, Gloriana is a horrible match for Raven. As someone who is essentially a mirror to anyone else's empathic being (if she chooses too), and with Raven being empathically powered, they basically have a really volatile connection that is not ideal for Raven. When Raven absorbs via the soul self, she takes that fear in, and it normally doesn't matter because the emotion isn't comparable to the pain she feels inside.

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In this case, Raven would be absorbing her own emotions, plus the thousands she's racked up over the years. Can she handle all of that at once? I highly doubt it.

Battle

My team is going about this pretty straight forward. Cassandra and her copies will be at the ready for telepathic defense, and once Despero attacks, they'll traverse upon him. I honestly don't think Despero could take on that many high level telepaths at once, so this should be over quickly, but we'll still play the next two things out as if this will take a moderate amount of time.

Sersi vs. Dr. Occult seems like the next obvious matchup, but I think this should be over fairly quickly. While Occult seems very good against magic, he seems to fall apart without it, and against someone that can turn his bag of tricks into a bag of toys, I think he is even more at a disadvantage in this match. It only takes a second for Sersi to end this match with transmutation, and I think this'll be the first bout complete, leaving her to assist either Gloriana or Cassandra as needed.

Gloriana vs. Raven is interesting conceptually. Two empaths against each other, one highly offensive (Raven) and one highly defensive (Gloriana.) In this match, I think Gloriana comes on top. Any offensive tactics used to impact her offensively will cause Gloriana to instinctively reflect it back on to Raven. And Raven attempting to siphon her soul will overwhelm her, fracturing her with a level of empathic power she's never faced before.

Conclusion

I think my team takes this fight pretty handily, we have direct counters to your team and we can't truly be impacted by most of your methods of offense. We have Cassandra Nova, who is a telepath on a level that Despero has never fared well against, and even if her body dies, you'd have to fight her again in another form. Sersi can transmutate anyone in this match, and Occult can do nothing to stop her. Gloriana gives Raven a fractured mirror to look into, which will severely test her upper limits of empathic potential.

That's all, on you Void.

@thevoidofdeath You mind going first? Have to handle some irl things, won't be able to post until Friday.

@thevoidofdeath: I've been well! Hope you have as well, I went through my back pile of comics and now I want to use some of the characters that got a bunch of feats since I the last time I repped then.

I think we can probably do like 10 minutes prep each? That seems fair enough.

Also, I think I'm going to swap out Manifold with Meggan instead, if that's okay with you.

@thevoidofdeath said:

-Battlefield neutral

I am willing to do a triple-threat team Cav with these guys.

• Despero is Pc-current
• Raven is PC -Current /not allowed to use that Unkindness full form.
• Dr. Occult is Pre/pc

Want to do a Marvel vs. DC Match? I'm thinking Sersi, Manifold, and Cassandra Nova on my end.

I feel like current Cyborg could take WM down before that becomes an issue. Cyborg alone has some fairly solid technology/technopathy resistance feats throughout the years. Now that he's (seemingly) permanently fused with Motherbox, I think he's probably the most adept tech user in comics right now, at the very least rivaling with Braniac and Ultron.

Round 1: Venom vs Solomon Grundy

Venom via hax.

Round 2: Carnage vs Clayface

Carnage via hax.

Round 3: Human Torch vs Starfire

HT due to morals off.

Round 4: Nova(Sam) vs Blue Beetle

Nova via blitz.

Round 5: War Machine vs Cyborg

Cyborg via technopathic hax.

Round 6: Vision vs Steel

Vision due to morals off.

Round 7: Storm vs Star Sapphire

Storm murders her very quickly due to morals off.

Round 8: Mandarin vs Oceanmaster

Mandarin, exponentially more versatile and deadly.

Round 1: Vulcan vs Sinestro

Vulcan stomps.

Round 2: Annihilus vs Eradicator

I lean Eradicator here based on what I've seen of the two, but I think a case can be made for either.

Round 3: Red Hulk vs Etrigan

Red Hulk simply because Etrigan is inconsistent. If we're going full potential I'd go for Etrigan.

Round 4: Abomination vs Guy Gardener(GL)

Abomination, Guy isn't ever impressive to me outside of his high ends.

Round 5: Juggernaut vs Atrocitus

Fun fight, I'd lean Atrocious due to Juggernaut having so many consistent weak showings.

Round 6: Nova Prime vs Kyle Rayner(GL)

Kyle gets blitzed. Nova still sucks though.

Round 7: Skaar vs John Stewart (GL)

Experience trumps stats in this match.

Round 8: Quasar vs Hal Jordan(GL)

I feel like Quasar blitzes? But I'm not too familiar with Hal's speed feats.

Round 1: Spiderman vs Vixen

Pretty clear imo.

Round 2: Green Goblin vs Black Manta

I also think this is fairly clear.

Round 3: Dr Octopus vs Poison Ivy

Stomp.

Round 4: Lizard vs King Shark

Not sure, I'd lean King Shark due to Aquaman scaling I guess.

Round 5: Electro vs Black Lightning

I feel like Black Lightning is more consistent but Electro is more impressive.

Round 6: Luke Cage vs Superboy(Connor)

Omega stomp.

Round 7: She-Hulk vs Hawkgirl

Fair fight, but flight and Nth gives the win.

Round 8: Thing vs Hawkman

Fair fight, but flight and Nth gives the win.