youmessinwithme

@apex_pretador:

I'm sorry but that's just a very inaccurate or purposefully bias statement of their encounters.

Gladiator was possibly winning his fight with Eric masterson up until that point but by no means was it a stomp. Plus Thor can creat or summon lightning out of nothing, out of his hammer, out of the sky, out of his body etc. So living lightning's pressence is really just PIS/WIS. Eric masterson does win the fight by KO and like I said is not as strong, skilled or experienced with his powers or the hammer as the real Thor.

Do you actually have a scan of Thor and the FF's speed being amped and Gladiators not being?? Also the battle was broken up after only a few panels, there was barely enough to even call it a battle.

Future Gladiator is trying to kill Thor and Thor is holding back,

Once again trying to kill Thor who is still holding back till the very end of the fight. When Thor girl shows up Gladiator is already lying face down in the dirt.

I haven't seen his fight with Jane so I can not comment.

@cramandman:

No i'm sorry you're logic is not only completely and totally flawed on the Kratos argument it's almost non existent. Yes he has magical weapons but there are plenty of magical weapons in the marvel universe that are nowhere near powerful enough to kill gods in Marvel. Saying that his weapons "can and should be able to kill any god from any reality" is really just your opinion formed without reason evidence or logic. None of his magical weapons have ever been shown to be able to hurt anywhere even remotely close to Marvel Zeus' durability. Plus he beats Zeus in his own universe with his bare hands and kills ares with a giant regular stone sword he pulls off a statue so the magical weapons argument would still be faulty. You're trying to scale Kratos up to be in the same weight class as the gods in other reality when Zeus in the GOW universe is not in the same weight class or even close to Marvel's Zeus. So Kratos has no feats to put him even close to being in the same weight class as some gods like Zeus or better yet elder gods from other realities. You're simply labeling and putting everything with that same label at the same power level across all boards. The Silver Surfer is not a god and he's a "weight class" below Zeus in the Marvel universe but that doesn't make him less powerful than every other Zeus in every other fiction ever written, the Silver Surfer would mop the floor with the whole GOW universe. Just like Kratos being more powerful than Zeus, the strongest god in his universe doesn't make him more powerful than every god in every other universe. It just makes him stronger than his Zeus. That's it. Just like Kratos being the most powerful being in the GOW universe doesn't make him the most powerful being in every other universe, anymore than the strongest being in pokemon is just as strong or stronger thean the strongest being in the Dragon ball universe. Your talking about being the strongest being in a universe where no one is even 1/1,000,000th as strong as in the marvel universe. They are not in the same "weight class". For the sake of the wright class argument lets say you fought a Russian(a god) fighter name Artyom(who is Zeus in this example) but he was a flyweight(gow universe Zeus) Just because you were able to beat him doesn't mean you could beat a different Russian(god) fighter named Artyom(Same name same origin different person) who was a super heavyweight(Marvel Zues). Just because you could beat the most powerful being in the pokemon universe doesn't mean you could beat the most powerful being in the dragonball universe because they are not the same weight class.

@cramandman:

You are applying Logic that doesn't fit in the comic book universe though and are kinda ignoring people weight cuts. Batman is 210 So that makes him a light heavyweight or even a middleweight. Danny is 175 so that makes him a welterweight or possibly even a lightweight (I'm using MMA weight classes) But non of that really matters in the marvel or DC universe. Batman is far stronger than any real human being ever. Heavyweight Superheavyweight it doesn't matter. He's far stronger and far faster than even the fastest pro athlete at the lowest weightclasses even though he is a normal person not taking performance enhancing drugs. That's not realistic. It's a comic book. Just like there is no way Batman would be able to master every martial art in the world at such a young age, there isn't enough time realistically that doesn't add up, but it's not realistic it's a comic book. Natasha romanov is a 5"7 125 female with a 500 pound overhead press and she's not classified as a superhuman, even though that's really more than any real 400 pound plus powerlifter can do. Once again not realistic. Doesn't change the fact that if you're comparing her to a bigger normal man who realistically should be stronger they wouldn't be because she's not bound by the real world restriction of human physiology. Same with Fighting In the real world no person with nothing but an insane level of fitness and martial arts skills can fight 100 armed men at once, and destroy them, but it happens in comic books. You're essentially complaing that you don't think "normal" or unenhanced humans in comic books should be able to be that fast, or that strong, or that smart or that skilled because it's unrealistic. If you want realism you should avoid Superhero comics all together.

Also side not does Captain American weigh as much in the MCU as in the comic books?? Steve is supposed to be at least 6"2 and 240 but chris evans is only 6' and definitely is not as big as Captain America is in the comics.

2nd side note Both Conor and floyd are WAAAAAY to small to make middleweight and I think the best middleweight in the world could for sure sleep literally the worst heavyweight pro out there, especially in MMA.

Finally for Kratos. No. That's like saying if you can kill an insect in this universe you should be able to kill an insect in all other universes, but if you went to a universe where insects were the size of skyscrapers the roles would be reversed and the insect would be able to easily kill you by stepping on you just like here you could easily kill an insect by stepping on it. You could probably kill a coyote, but if you went to a universe where they were 100 times stronger, faster, smarter and more durable you would not be able to kill them, just because they are that universes version of Coyote's and you can kill your own universes version. That's the argument with Kratos in the Marvel universe Just because Zeus has the same name and a similar origin story and is a "god" even though godliness is defined differently is not a reason for why Kratos would be able to kill Marvels Zeus, since Kratos has never even seen a being even 1/100th as powerful as Marvels Zeus and Marvels Zeus is superior to everyone in the GOW universe in terms of power and intelligence many times over.

@cramandman:

Conor and big country is a good example cause they're both power punchers and big country has a great chin.

Floyd Mayweather was never a power puncher or a KO artist and he's now retired 40 years old and has broken both his hands many times, his last KO was in 2011 and that was from a sucker punch. Floyd has a lot of trouble Koing other guys from 130-140. not the best example.

Also on the strength note 5 time worlds strongest man Mariusz Pudzianowski now fights in MMA and he has a 10-5-(1) record fighting completely unknown fighters no where near top level.

But why?? you're comparing things from 2 different universes. As a normal human Batman shouldn't be faster than any superhuman. But he sometimes is. He shouldn't be able to dodge bullets after they've been fired at all ever but he can. Which is a better speed feat than some super soldiers in other universes or forms of media have. You already admitted earlier in this thread that you agree that real world physics, and i'm assuming in this case human physiology breaks down completely when were talking about comic book superheroes. Super soldier is essentially just a label different writers have created different "super soldiers" with entirely different powers. U.S. agent is bulletproof and can lift over 10 tons he's a super soldier in the marvel universe Master man can take direct shots from tanks and can lift over 50 tons. Captain Nazi )lame name I know) is a super soldier in DC and he can fly and probably lift well over 1,000,000 tons. If you were talking about a "normal human" and a "super soldier" from the same universe I'd be inclined to agree with you that the Super Soldier should be stronger and faster. like Batman and Deathstroke in DC Deathstroke is stronger and faster but Batman beings someone who has worked his entire like to achieve the peak of human fitness naturally and being an incredibly skilled martial artist himself is still able to hold his own against the physically enhanced super soldier.

It's kind of like the argument with gods a god should in theory be more powerful than an alien and in most cases that would probably be true. But even though Superman's just an Alien there are plenty of gods out there in fiction he's far more powerful then. The same thing occurs when people talk about Kratos from God of War taking on gods in the marvel universe, since he is powerful enough to easily murder gods including Zeus he should be able to do the same thing to Marvel gods, except Zeus in marvel would kill everything that exists in the GOW universe in about 1 second.

Maybe it was maybe it wasn't, if it wasn't than that's definitely a major inconsistency given all Captain Marvel's other figts with Superman and the fact that the last time he cheap shotted Superman it took two punches that were magically amped to the point that Captain Marvel felt drained after doing so and he still described it as himself getting lucky.

I literally just said that in my last post.

@youmessinwithme said:

My mistake again scan I hadn't seen in a very long time, it was only after the wizard Shazam was gone that Captain Marvels power was increased in the rock of eternity

@cramandman: Yes of course that was with his chi. That was in response to the fact that you claimed he is only Peak human with the use of his chi. When his feats put him far beyond Peak human even by comic book standards.

Your right about The Batroc showing it's realistic for Batroc and not a high showing for Cap, cap obviously has much better feats, simply high in comparison to the showing for Danny who also has much better feats.

Still disagree 110% about the bullet timing. There is no evidence cap can react to the speed of a bullet, Cap wouldn't need a shield and and armor if he was a bullet timer and Winter soldier gets his arm up right as the bullet is show, it's not like there's any slow motion where he actually moves his arm in the way while the bullet is mid air. That's like saying There's evidence Ironman is a bullet timer because he wears armor so he doesn't need to doge it and because he gets his armored glove over the winter soldiers gun before he fires. Also There is for sure ample evidence that that they might not be "afraid" of getting shot. But they're definitely still concerned about it and do everything in their power to avoid it.

Again not only leaving a dangerous terrorist alive, but actively holding back when you've killed dozens of less dangerous foes is actually pretty inconsistent and irresponsible. Especially when batroc gets up and almost blows up him and Black widow a few seconds later. Also I didn't respond because I never said it was a close fight at all. Batroc was clearly outmatched, however Batroc actually lands several strikes on Captain America during the fight including some when Cap still has his shield. My point was that even with a 1 on 1 confrontation with a non superpowered opponent like batroc who is highly skilled he still had some difficulty he doesn't just blow through him and he still get tagged in spite of cap being bigger stronger and faster and Batroc is not anywhere near as skilled as comic book ironfist.

Like I said there is magical lightning in the panel and Superman is completely and totally distracted and CM attacks him from behind it was a cheap shot.

Yeah I knew he turned him back I just thought it was just by waving his hand I wasn't sure if it was by saying shazam I had to go find the scan hadn't seen it in many years.

My mistake again scan I hadn't seen in a very long time, it was only after the wizard Shazam was gone that Captain Marvels power was increased in the rock of eternity

"This time I will not let you impede me. My power is restored" meaning their other encounter Specter was not at full power.

@cramandman:

Dude you linked me a wiki.. Marvel.com is a wiki. When chi amped he can swat amped bullets out of the air with no problem that are shot at him from behind and SURVIVE NUCLEAR EXPLOSIONS! Does that sound like peak human to you?? Also like I said earlier Batroc has fought cap and SPider-man at the same time, you are cherry picking a low showing for Danny and a high showing for Cap. Plus Cap kills quite a few people in the MCU So your argument for him holding back against a dangerous terrorist who's also probably the best normal human fighter he's fought just doesn't add up. MCU danny has nothing to do with this thread. Also you just say "there's every reason to believe that cap can bullet-time" When there is in fact no evidence whatsoever to suggest that Cap can Bullet time in the MCU.

Also your comment about Boxing is way off, and would be even farther off if you're talking about full contact fighting, where leg reach and power come into play, I've seen a a retired 60 year old homeless 130 pound former world champion boxer sleep a 200+ pound man in about 1 second. When you add in head kicks where the smaller fighter usually has more flexibility extending their leg reach and it is not hard at all to generate enough power to knock someone out with a head kick if you're using proper technique, your thighs and hips are a lot stronger than your shoulders and arms and your legs and feat are much heavier than your arms and hands. Kaoklai Kaennorsing is 175 pounds and has beaten Hong man Choi is a full contact kickboxing match and Choi is over 7"2 and 330 pounds.

@nick1994:

A) I wasn't talking about that, there is a ton of magical lightning in said panel, and that's a very dirty cheap shot.

B) In days of Vengeance. Also by the looks of it, it would mean even if Captain Marvel wasn't amped in the above scans you posted the Specter was weakened. Also this all happens at the rock of eternity where Captain Marvel is amped and he was still completely powerless in every way.

C) So were actually just lowballing now?? Also 712 Hyperion is still incredibly powerful even without any planet busting feats. Also were any of those in even the last 17 years?? Because much more recently Nova prime who is a cosmic powerhouse needed to use a specific wavelength of radiation strontian's are weak too just to beat Gladiator's cousin who isn't as strong as Gladiator. Also what is the point of bringing up these old low showing and inconsistency's?? All comic book characters with long historys are gonna be inconsistent. Superman has never been portrayed as a cosmic powerhouse in any of his battles with Captain Marvel. Your debating high end showing for CM vs a jobbing Gladiator.

D) Okay so pretty much all superman's high showing are irrelevant because he's struggled against much weaker opponents. Which makes all comparisons between Superman and Captain Marvel irrelevant as well. You're still using the what if Gladiator Jobs argument.

@cramandman:

Yes it's not logical in terms of real world physics. But Batman inspire of being stated to be a "normal" human is fast enough to dodge bullets fired at him from behind at point blank range. Making him a hell of a lot faster than MCU cap in spite of the fact cap is "Super Human" and batman is not. Also Danny is a peak human without the use of his chi and amps himself FAR beyond the limits of peak human when using his chi.